Should the circuit be looking to use other videographers than GTV who actually upload videos?

Danceinyourpants

New Member
Messages
1
Can we talk about the elephant in the room that is GTV never uploading videos?

I don't know a single team that isn't missing some video that GTV filmed. Everybody always looks forward to performing at a competition that GTV is at, but I dread it, because I know that video is never going up. Sure, his quality is decent, and his editing is a nice touch, but why do we as a circuit allow GTV to keep coming to comps as the primary videographer if he never releases the product? I respect the work that Harjot does, but it's not like somebody else can't do it. Mithin Thomas and Alvin Alex (primarily in the fusion circuit) have comparable video quality, and they actually upload every team's videos from every comp they go to. It's really not that hard.

A high quality video, for me, is often more important than placings. Obviously I want to place, but when I'm looking back on what I did in the circuit 20 years from now, I'm not really going to care what place I got. I will care about having a video that I can clearly see my team and myself in. And I'm sure others feel the same way. Teams will go to comps just because they know GTV will be there, because a good video is that important to them. Ironically, most of these teams won't ever see that video.

At what point does our circuit and comp organizers draw the line and say enough is enough when when dealing with GTV? What good is his video quality if they videos never get posted? I'd rather have somebody with slightly less editing skill (though let's be honest, GTV doesn't do that much editing work) come to my comps if I knew they'd upload. The very least GTV could do is give teams the raw footage of what he films if he has no intention of uploading, but whenever a team asks for that, he doesn't give it. At this point, comps just go to GTV for the clout he brings to their comp. I think they're doing a disservice to the teams by doing so.

Yesterday GTV made a video on their Instagram explaining the reason for delays in uploading videos is this new website portal he's working on. I still don't see how that's a valid excuse for not uploading. He hired an artist for his new logo, and he hired a web developer to make the website, so what's he doing? Maybe he could hire somebody to upload the rest of the videos if he can't find the time to do it himself. I'm starting to think that he has been intentionally withholding videos so that once his website launches, it will force people to go through his site to watch them. Maybe that would be convenient, but I personally dislike the idea of having to go through a website other than YouTube to watch bhangra performances. Will he be monetizing this website with ads, subscription fees, etc.? Does he just want the pride of knowing everybody has to use his website to watch shit? If videos will only be available on his website, it seems like they're more of his property than the circuits. Even though he works for free, I still think that videos should belong to the teams and the circuit, not to GTV, so why should we have to go through his site to see them?

I'm guessing nobody speaks up about this problem, because nobody wants to piss off GTV and risk him having further reason to not upload their team's videos, or even risk having him take down ones that he's already posted (I've heard he's taken down teams videos in the past).

TLDR: Why do we still let GTV come to comps instead of a videographer that will actually upload videos?

Maybe if GTV is too busy working a 9-5 to upload videos in a timely manner, the circuit needs to find someone who has the capacity.
 
Last edited:

RishiP

New Member
Messages
3
In my opinion, I don't think there's much wrong with Harjot not uploading videos. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think any comp/team actually pays him to record their performances, edit them and post them unless they specifically offer it. He really only posts the videos because of his passion for bhangra and given that he does it on his own free time, it's hard to hold him accountable for not posting videos because it's technically not his responsibility; it's something he does for the benefit of the rest of the circuit. Now I'm not saying that it's not annoying when videos don't come out when you expect them. Obviously, everyone in the circuit wants to see all the teams competing at big competitions like Championships, Bruin, etc. and the fact that he doesn't give teams the raw footage is kinda strange imo especially if he doesn't plan on posting the video soon, but like I said you can't really get mad at him for doing something the 'wrong way' if nobody hired him/if it's not his responsibility to do it. I also think that the fact that he's making a portal for all of the videos for every competition and team is, again, really helpful to basically everyone in the circuit and it does make sense that he hasn't been regularly uploading videos cause of that. There's definitely a lot of time and effort that goes into making something that big and easy to use and, while he does have people working on it with him, he's probably doing most of the work to make sure everything is the way it should be and he also has a full-time job outside of bhangra. Those two things together I can imagine take up virtually all of his time so I honestly don't mind waiting for the videos if he's working on something to make them even easier to access rather than scrolling through playlists of competitions on YouTube to find a performance from a few years ago.
 

hardeep_singh

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,473
two facts: gtv has always wanted to monetize his videos and teams have always wanted the exposure his follower base brings.
my advice is all teams should have some people in the audience recording their performance from multiple angles. make your own videos, release them on your own terms. some competitions claim to have all rights to performances presented at their show, these competitions should be called out for having people agree to such a stupid condition. truth is such a condition is not gonna be easy to enforce legally since the performances are created by the teams as well as the fact that the music used for performances is copyrighted by the respective music companies.
the core problem is that a lot of people these days want to monetize culture. gtv unfortunately has some sort of hero complex going which compels him to believe that he is due respect and admiration for his ability to push the record button. he's tried in the past to monetize his videos on youtube, i'm guessing those attempts failed due to the music related copyright issues. disrespecting teams, trying to monetize culture, generally douchy behavior, it's all just different aspects of his insecurity. if he respected the culture as much as he claims to he would give all the teams their videos as soon as he could.
i've given teams their raw videos immediately after a comp, it's not hard to do, if anyone doesn't do it the reason is they feel some ownership over the videos, which again is BS due to the fact that there would be no videos to record if not for teams putting in the work to build their sets.

http://bhangrateamsforum.com/a/threads/bhangra-down-under-2016.27716/#post-238693
still relevant 3.5yrs later.
 

Basim

♥ BTF ♥
Staff member
Messages
1,387
Yesterday GTV made a video on their Instagram explaining the reason for delays in uploading videos is this new website portal he's working on. I still don't see how that's a valid excuse for not uploading. He hired an artist for his new logo, and he hired a web developer to make the website, so what's he doing? Maybe he could hire somebody to upload the rest of the videos if he can't find the time to do it himself. I'm starting to think that he has been intentionally withholding videos so that once his website launches, it will force people to go through his site to watch them. Maybe that would be convenient, but I personally dislike the idea of having to go through a website other than YouTube to watch bhangra performances. Will he be monetizing this website with ads, subscription fees, etc.? Does he just want the pride of knowing everybody has to use his website to watch shit? If videos will only be available on his website, it seems like they're more of his property than the circuits. Even though he works for free, I still think that videos should belong to the teams and the circuit, not to GTV, so why should we have to go through his site to see them?
Posted on YT as well. For other people's reference:


Definitely agree with Hardeep that the best solution to have trusted person in the audience filming your team and know that you'll have access to the video in a timely manner. It's great when you can have a camera setup during tech runs or someone filming to see how your team looks as well.

I actually really enjoyed the mixers and "behind the scenes" type of stuff GTV used to post (mixer, pre-comp footage, etc) because that gave many individuals insight into teams, the organizers, and content outside of the just the competition. I had no idea about the massive delays, taking videos down, etc. Frankly, I like when competitions hire their own videographers and release videos on their own; I feel that's a good way to build their competition's own brand/reputation and engage all teams that participate (in a way, say "thank you for attending, here is your video").

Perhaps it's time for teams to rise together and speak out to competitions directly about their frustrations in terms videographers (GTV or others that may be in the same boat).

A good discussion topic for sure. Would love to hear others thoughts/opinions.

~ Basim :)
 

Manjot

Active Member
Messages
2,059
From what I heard, competitions will pay for his flight/hotel at the minimum - might even pay him extra. I wonder if they do a contract?

I think I have said this multiple times on here: You will only get your video(s) uploaded if you suck up to Harjot.

I have few other stories about him that I rather not mention on here.

Anyways, if you want a video of your performance then just have someone record it from the audience. Simple.

two facts: gtv has always wanted to monetize his videos and teams have always wanted the exposure his follower base brings.
my advice is all teams should have some people in the audience recording their performance from multiple angles. make your own videos, release them on your own terms. some competitions claim to have all rights to performances presented at their show, these competitions should be called out for having people agree to such a stupid condition. truth is such a condition is not gonna be easy to enforce legally since the performances are created by the teams as well as the fact that the music used for performances is copyrighted by the respective music companies.
the core problem is that a lot of people these days want to monetize culture. gtv unfortunately has some sort of hero complex going which compels him to believe that he is due respect and admiration for his ability to push the record button. he's tried in the past to monetize his videos on youtube, i'm guessing those attempts failed due to the music related copyright issues. disrespecting teams, trying to monetize culture, generally douchy behavior, it's all just different aspects of his insecurity. if he respected the culture as much as he claims to he would give all the teams their videos as soon as he could.
i've given teams their raw videos immediately after a comp, it's not hard to do, if anyone doesn't do it the reason is they feel some ownership over the videos, which again is BS due to the fact that there would be no videos to record if not for teams putting in the work to build their sets.

http://bhangrateamsforum.com/a/threads/bhangra-down-under-2016.27716/#post-238693
still relevant 3.5yrs later.
Agreed ^^ lol @ god complex - so true. Especially when he tries to judge or give his opinion about the performance - stick to pressing the record button.

If you have ever competed at Bhangra Idols in Vancouver then you'll know how easy it is to release raw videos. We would do our tech time and by the time we grabbed all our props and got off stage, we would have a disc with our rehearsal on it for review within 3 minutes. That was like over 5-6 years ago and the technology has improved so much since then.

Hopefully, other videographers can come forward and offer their services to the Bhangra community or even like a group of people that are based throughout North America, almost in every region so cost can be kept low and we're getting videos quicker.
 

simarpreet

New Member
Messages
1
GTV is not free. His expenses are paid for, and maybe he doesn't charge for his filming services, but that is not the same thing as a competition *not* paying him, so it's not completely accurate to say that he's not paid so he shouldn't be held accountable. Actually, the whole circuit runs on unpaid people. Judges are not paid, their expenses are covered (if that), and competition organizers are not paid, the fees and payments they collect from teams and sponsors are to cover the cost of the competition not so that they can be paid for their services. Still, we complain when judges and comp board do a poor job and don't deliver on what they're there to do. There are so many threads here that complain about how judges or comps didn't do something in the best interest of the teams and that's wrong, I'm not sure why this is different.

When GTV videos don't go up/the team isn't sent a link/the videos are taken down (for reasons other than copyright), that feels like a real abuse of power, which competitions and teams have also honestly had a hand in. This new platform is great, for the teams whose videos he will actually post. If this is where his time has been going then that accounts for a delay for the last year or two, but that doesn't explain videos from 2015 that never saw the light of day. Meanwhile videos of teams that he has consistently supported and had personal relationships with have their videos in their hands within the same season. My team for years has just set someone up with a camera in the audience after knowing other teams that got screwed by GTV. What would happen if suddenly GTV pulled every video he's posted? He could choose to do that and my guess is that a lot of teams would be screwed, and they would be in the same position as a lot of teams that have honestly never even gotten their videos in the first place. Because when a competition gets a videographer, the teams are trusting they will get to see their videos, but that doesn't happen for everyone, plus GTV doesn't hand over raw footage, so he still owns their performances. And he has used that against teams & dancers before, I'm guessing people aren't going to give their stories about that publicly on BTF out of fear of him doing the same thing again.

Comp organizers: find other videographers, or don't get one at all. Get someone who has a good reputation and who will let teams have a copy of their performance or at the very least give them a contract that says they have to upload and send teams a link by a certain time. Many teams are no longer more likely to come to your competition if they see you're bringing GTV, because to them, that's the same thing as having no videographer.
 

JimmyJatt463

Member
Messages
74
I feel like GTV started off with great intentions and built up a crazy following. I honestly believe he's had a significant impact in growing the circuit to the point it is today. His videos are watched all over the world and it's fact that he brings fame to whatever competition he goes to whether you like him or not. You also have to understand that videos posted to his channel will get more views/exposure than if posted elsewhere and it this helps teams gain traction quicker.

Despite this I think he's just lost passion for what he started and I can't blame him for it. The man is married and still works a 9-5. Priorities have changed and it's obvious that he doesn't commit the time/effort that teams and comps expect of him. Everyone starts bhangra and then has to retire at some point. After you stop dancing, it's inevitable that you will slowly lose interest and I legit feel this is where GTV is at right now.
He used to edit the videos, write a team description, add the names/colours of dancers to each and every video before he uploaded. Now it's just links to his socials. I feel he just needs help uploading and editing his videos because recording is the easy part.

I gotta have a small dig at him though: why does he seem to record every part of a comp weekend? He records the mixer, the comp performances, the award ceremony and sometimes the afterparty too but we only see comp videos. I for one would love to see mixer videos as part of the content he shares on his socials. This stuff doesn't even have to be edited and I'd still enjoy it. I've recently seen some stuff from the Australian circuit and the UK which was really fun to watch
 

Akash_M

Member
Messages
7
Aight first off, I definitely think GTV has done a great job with capturing these competition videos for all of our teams, but I think there is a clear solve to the issues people are bringing up as far as releasing videos, raw footage etc.

Contracts.

At all of these competitions, it is up to the competition organizers to set the terms that they would like to see upheld. There is an exchange of fees and services happening - write it into a contract and then it is on you and your competition board to uphold it. If GTV doesn't agree to the release timelines or the other terms your competition would like to see, shop it out to other videographers that will. An example of what I could see working is competition boards agreeing to pay half of the flights and hotel upfront, and the rest upon release of the videos (just one example of how it could be approached).

I'm not telling competitions that you should or shouldn't ask GTV to record your vids - there are definitely a lot of factors that go into selecting the right videographer for your event. But, it all comes down to competition organizers setting the expectations for the services provided not just by videographers, but all vendors they bring as well.

I'm not trying to put GTV's name in a negative light with this post - having directed a comp for 3 years i just tend to look at these type of things from an administrative standpoint that sometimes ppl that arent behind the scenes dont think of immediately.

But anyways, i think contracts with comps and vendors solve most problems, feel free to agree / disagree, thats just my 2 cents.
 

SurajpalSeng

New Member
Messages
11
First of all, I want to thank GTV for his contributions in the circuit over the past years. Because of him, I got to experience the love of bhangra and was able to join my hometown team... He goes to a lot of comps over the year and pretty much records every team that performs at that certain comp, but will only post probably two or three teams out of the total number that are present there. This would honestly make me kind of disappointed if i can't see the performance with my team which is basically a memory of me and the rest of the team. I think other comps should decide to get other videographers who can post videos on a timely basis like many of you said in this thread. The second thing is that comps should develop a contract with the videographer (be it GTV or someone else) to kinda make them obligated to post those videos after a certain time in order to let people relive their team's performance.
I have heard that a lot of teams have to suck up to GTV in the past in order to get their video posted and honestly thats really sad as well.

And if comps are just gonna GTV for clout, then what exactly is the purpose of having a videographer at their comp...
might as well do a facebook livestream like RDR did and that worked out just fine!!!
 

SurajpalSeng

New Member
Messages
11
I feel like GTV started off with great intentions and built up a crazy following. I honestly believe he's had a significant impact in growing the circuit to the point it is today. His videos are watched all over the world and it's fact that he brings fame to whatever competition he goes to whether you like him or not. You also have to understand that videos posted to his channel will get more views/exposure than if posted elsewhere and it this helps teams gain traction quicker.

Despite this I think he's just lost passion for what he started and I can't blame him for it. The man is married and still works a 9-5. Priorities have changed and it's obvious that he doesn't commit the time/effort that teams and comps expect of him. Everyone starts bhangra and then has to retire at some point. After you stop dancing, it's inevitable that you will slowly lose interest and I legit feel this is where GTV is at right now.
He used to edit the videos, write a team description, add the names/colours of dancers to each and every video before he uploaded. Now it's just links to his socials. I feel he just needs help uploading and editing his videos because recording is the easy part.

I gotta have a small dig at him though: why does he seem to record every part of a comp weekend? He records the mixer, the comp performances, the award ceremony and sometimes the afterparty too but we only see comp videos. I for one would love to see mixer videos as part of the content he shares on his socials. This stuff doesn't even have to be edited and I'd still enjoy it. I've recently seen some stuff from the Australian circuit and the UK which was really fun to watch
Yeah I saw that too, especially with BIT6 last year where he recorded everything at the mixer and only put small bits of it on instagram.
 

Manjot

Active Member
Messages
2,059
Maybe we should make a list of all other videographers available that would be willing to provide the same service minus all the bullshit you have to go through to get access to your video. !!!!

GTV also removed a teams previous videos after he bashed said team on his Instagram because of his affiliation with another team. Too much bund pange happening.
 

Basim

♥ BTF ♥
Staff member
Messages
1,387
Great discussion so far.

He used to edit the videos, write a team description, add the names/colours of dancers to each and every video before he uploaded. Now it's just links to his socials. I feel he just needs help uploading and editing his videos because recording is the easy part.
Noticed this too. Harjot used to send a form to each team to get the information they wanted added to their video before he put it up, but I am not sure if he still does this.

He records the mixer, the comp performances, the award ceremony and sometimes the afterparty too but we only see comp videos. I for one would love to see mixer videos as part of the content he shares on his socials. This stuff doesn't even have to be edited and I'd still enjoy it. I've recently seen some stuff from the Australian circuit and the UK which was really fun to watch
+1 - this is what I said in my post above too ;)

Contracts.

At all of these competitions, it is up to the competition organizers to set the terms that they would like to see upheld. There is an exchange of fees and services happening - write it into a contract and then it is on you and your competition board to uphold it. If GTV doesn't agree to the release timelines or the other terms your competition would like to see, shop it out to other videographers that will. An example of what I could see working is competition boards agreeing to pay half of the flights and hotel upfront, and the rest upon release of the videos (just one example of how it could be approached).
This is an excellent idea from a competition board standpoint. I think teams should apply knowing their video will be released in X amount of time and competitions need to hold their videographers liable to edit & release the videos. Your proposed solution off a competition-videographer contract & paying for expenses with milestone payments is something that I wish more competitions would employ.

~ Basim :)
 

hardeep_singh

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,473
From what I heard, competitions will pay for his flight/hotel at the minimum - might even pay him extra. I wonder if they do a contract?
He usually also expects a liaison to cater to his needs, I think a few years ago he threw a fit about bhangra blowout not providing enough hospitality.

I think I have said this multiple times on here: You will only get your video(s) uploaded if you suck up to Harjot.
Back in the day all it took was having attractive women with/on your team and dude would have your vid up the next day.

Hopefully, other videographers can come forward and offer their services to the Bhangra community or even like a group of people that are based throughout North America, almost in every region so cost can be kept low and we're getting videos quicker.
Witnessing gtv being a dick is what partially motivated me to start this thread years ago:
http://bhangrateamsforum.com/a/threads/how-to-record-a-bhangra-competition.26258/
With respect to video quality, I never invested in a 4k camera because I didn’t want to record bhangra videos at less than 60fps. Personally I believe the higher frame rate is critical to properly capture performances, 4k60fps cameras just recently started becoming affordable, the 3 I’ve looked at are the Panasonic G9, Panasonic GH5, and Blackmagic Pocket Cinema.
Ideally what competitions should do is have someone on the board be in charge of video recording and rent equipment for the weekend from a place like lensrental.
https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/panasonic-g9
https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/panasonic-35-100mm-f2.8-x-power-ois-ii
With respect to my personal experience being the “official” videographer for BBC and SAS, it was agreed that I would provide my SD card with all videos to the competition organizers immediately after the competition. Following the comps, I would copy all the videos to my laptop and hand over the card. This allowed the competition to have the videos for their own record/library.

Despite this I think he's just lost passion for what he started and I can't blame him for it. The man is married and still works a 9-5.
Yet he still wants to generate profits off of his video library.

I gotta have a small dig at him though: why does he seem to record every part of a comp weekend? He records the mixer, the comp performances, the award ceremony and sometimes the afterparty too but we only see comp videos. I for one would love to see mixer videos as part of the content he shares on his socials. This stuff doesn't even have to be edited and I'd still enjoy it. I've recently seen some stuff from the Australian circuit and the UK which was really fun to watch
He’s holding memories hostage, he likes to pick and choose interesting little bits of culture that he deems relevant for the sake of generating views from his follower base. He’s controlling the narrative and is never going to allow open access to all the memories he has locked away.

His haircut game is on point tho. Better than all yours, can tell ya that much.
I don’t know who you are or what your intention was with this post, but from the right perspective it is an absolutely savage comment. lol
 

sahab

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
168
I'm not telling competitions that you should or shouldn't ask GTV to record your vids - there are definitely a lot of factors that go into selecting the right videographer for your event. But, it all comes down to competition organizers setting the expectations for the services provided not just by videographers, but all vendors they bring as well.

I'm not trying to put GTV's name in a negative light with this post - having directed a comp for 3 years i just tend to look at these type of things from an administrative standpoint that sometimes ppl that arent behind the scenes dont think of immediately.

But anyways, i think contracts with comps and vendors solve most problems, feel free to agree / disagree, thats just my 2 cents.
I agree. Set your terms and know what you want. Create some SLAs that the videographer has to meet.

Areas of improvement for GTV:
  • Livestreams: GTV livestreams have been very poor quality. I would give benefit of the doubt that there are issues from venue to venue, but other bhangra/fusion comp livestreams are crystal clear and run with no/minimal issues.
  • Turn Around Time (TAT) for videos: Over a year TAT for a video is completely unacceptable when other videographers are pulling 1-2 week TATs.
  • Consistency and structure among content: Other youtube channels have very structured and organized content. Each day there is specific type of video being dropped each day.
Things that GTV does right:
  • Video Quality: GTV videos have a completely different look and feel then anyone else recording dance videos out there. The audio quality is awesome when there are no technical difficulties, and the videos make you feel like you're in the audience.
  • Content: The behind the scenes content, going to competitions in multiple countries. No one else out there in the bhangra circuit can or will gather the amount of content that he puts together.
  • He cares about the culture.
Solutions:
  • Hire staff: Hire people and put together a proper staff. There are young videographers in the circuit who could learn a lot from Harjot. If he hires people, it will relieve a lot burden of having to set up equipment, record the performances, travel to comps etc.
  • Charge for the service: It makes sense to me if GTV charges people more than just travel and board. If you pay him, it will allow him to use that money for things like hiring staff, buying better equipment, upgrades to the website, etc. If Harjot does not want to take money for the service, he should act as a non-profit where all profits/money he charges for the services are put back into the business for investments that I previously mentioned.
  • Consistent Posting Schedule: The websites strength is organization, but it doesn't solve the problem of consistency in posting and TAT. Teams and comps never know when their vids are going up. Furteelay had absolutely no clue that our Bruin GTV vid was going to be up until the day off. Create a schedule for posting that makes sense and gives clarity to teams/comps.
The first solution, hiring staff, is what is needed and should be top priority. As someone mentioned previously, Harjot has a lot on his plate, a 9-5 job, family, and GTV just to start, who knows what else. To my knowledge, he runs this primarily by himself. Hiring a staff will allow Harjot to focus on bigger picture items while his staff can focus on the operational aspects of the business.

Here is a list of other videographers that I am aware of:

NameYoutube Channel
Alvin Alex
Mithin
Sophia Goswami
(not sure if this is the right Youtube channel)
Hardeep Singh
Bhupinder, Victor, Bhoops Aheer
Raas Garba Bhangra TV (RGBTV)
Simran Kaur
 
Top