Differences in UK vs NA Circuits

siddyp

Tough times never last, but tough people do.
Messages
1,270
What up. Lots of good, fun, trolly discussion going on. Wanted to compile some thoughts and see what ya'll think:

Set creation:

- UK sets are wild. They're nasty. Formations are ridiculous. Mechanisms are so sick. I haven't watched every single UK video, but at least the placing teams in recent years, all have a very similar style/vibe: Fast, formations/mechanisms. Part of it definitely has to do with the audio. Mixes are straight hype af. Idc what anyone says about the pitch and use of same/similar synths, the mixes are an adrenaline rush. @dholihardo is one of my favs. But UK mixes, do sound very much the same.

- NA sets are extremely diverse: There are so many different styles of bhangra in NA. SPD set creation is different than NJJ. and keep comparing to FAUJ, Furteelay, JJ, AEG, BK, Van City, KPGD etc. Even the "folk" teams, you can tell they're different. Soormay compared to VSB compared to NSG. Every team I listed, looks different from the other. While some you may say look similar, no where near as similar as the UK teams. And yes I said and stand by the statement that UK sets are awesome. But every team I listed, (and more NA teams I haven't listed) have made awesome sets as well. Mixing is also way more diverse in NA. Listen to a Pablamix then Sargam. Klasikhz vs HsD. Aka$h vs GSingh. Jason Kataria vs Baljot. Different feels to each mixer.

- I give the UK the win when it comes to absolute hype in their sets. But NA teams have the ability to be dynamic. KPGD did whatever they did at Boston, then in under 3 months did what they did at Mela/MCB. 2 completely different style of sets. And I can see the likes of BK, NJ, Furteelay etc doing the same thing. We haven't seen that from the UK teams yet other than going from that hype af style, to doing live. Meaning, within music bhangra, we haven't seen the variation. If an NA team had to go to the UK with 16, they could be agile and create something that could bang and be as hype with the UK teams.

Competitions/Judges/Rubrics:

- Way more comps in NA than in UK. Rubrics across the US vary from comp to comp and range in style from Bruin on one end to MCB on the other and everything in between. With only 1 comp in the UK, maybe thats why there is not as much diversity in the UK.

- Maybe its the variety in judges with so many comps ranging across the continent. Each region having different judges that come from different styles. I know a big thing here is to create your own identity. Based on what I've watched, I don't really know if that kind of thing has been pushed in the UK.

- Another thing to keep in mind is that UK sets feel same thing for 8 minutes - hype af/formations/mechanisms. Judges/rubrics here push ups/downs/change in tempo and having variety in the routine. I don't know whats pushed in the UK but that is why, to me, there is more diversity in sets here.

In this specific aspect, with the circuits number of comps, number of different judges/rubrics, it feels like I'm comparing apples to oranges. The circuits are just plain and simply different.

Individual dancing:

Man. This is where UK teams, if you want me to officially call you guys the best, this is where ya'll need to step up. I rarely see some individual dancing moments, or full on domination of a set like we see here in NA. When you watch amazing performances from NA teams, you notice certain dancers and are like yo. who is that. Not once have I said that about a UK team other than the girls on JVD at WBBC.

UK teams: show me some dominance in a jodi dancing like Prabh and Jagmeet from SPD. Cherag and Amrinder from Fauj. The Khera twins from NJ. Benny and Surmeet from old school VCU. I could list many more filthy filthy jodis over the years but for the sake of time and length i wont. And lets apply that across a full team. Not going with the same teams, but damn. That BK team from 2013? Show me a squad of 12 from the UK that can match that 12.

You gotta take my word here, I'm not trying to rag on the UK. But your sets don't allow for it. Seems like dancers focus on only hitting spots, and going 150% all out the whole time. Which, while trying to move alot, is difficult. You can't lift your legs fully while covering so much ground in 4 beats. You can't properly rip a jandhu singha. There is no room for adding grace. The level of poise and strength in form in a Sumit Hira and the way he trains BK, is not seen in any of your teams imo.

I'm not saying to cut all the crazy movement/mechanisms. But shift some focus on pure, raw, dancing of bhangra. And allow some moments for it in your sets. Ya'll have the talent to be on par and better than the dancers here. But I don't think it has been shown yet. I genuinely believe that you guys could vary your sets more, train in pure raw dancing, and show a 16 that can hang and be as deep as some of the squads here, while maintaining your hype style.

Ya'll do that^ and I can say ya'll the best. But its hard for me to believe you guys can hang with some of the placing teams from 6ix or MCB on their rubrics. If ya'll don't change a thing, please come to bruin :).

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I could be wrong in things I've said. Wherever it is, show me please. I don't watch every video. I ain't tryna edit it. But just wanted to highlight where I think each circuit is better than the other and why things might be different. I left some things out, esp the prep for 1 comp vs multiple in a season cause thats been said multiple times. But please bring up some other thoughts!

Much love.
 

harind_singh

Member
Messages
27
Fair post, at least someone is trying to take this seriously.

Same as you regarding UK sets, I haven't watched a lot of sets coming out of the US for a while so I'm not going to pretend to know about everything you've just said but wanted to discuss some good points raised.

The dynamic and differences between teams is a fair point and I don't think anyone disagrees with that, at least within our camp. We have 1 Major Uni comp and 1 Pro comp a year. Usually the team that wins (GCC have won last 2 years running and won the most pro comps in UK), sets the tone/theme of winning sets which then sort of trickles its way into the Uni comp as most of the Uni teams are captained by dancers dancing in Pro Teams (e.g. University of Birmingham and Aston captains are GCC dancers/Captains). This is also the case at Kings where they have dancers who dance for Vasda Punjab and Imperial who have dancers dancing in AJ. So straight away you can see why there will be similarities within sets. Plus when a team wins, other teams want to copy that formula to also win so the lines of uniqueness sort of get lost along the way (this is a general point, not a shot at anyone)

That's our scene, now as much as I agree with the point about teams having differences in your scene, whether the sets being produced are Elite, memorable and just outright nasty is debatable. I owe it to myself to watch First place or sometimes placing sets coming out of US comps but even then it's usually just a watch and then forget about it. The only teams that really stand out (obviously this is subjective) are teams like NJ,SPD,Soormay. I guess the reason we notice them more is because they focus on Folk execution a lot more which is what we also try and stick to. No disrespect intended to the other teams. This sort of moves into the set creation point.

The set creation within the two scenes is hugely different. A lot of it due to the points you already made. Rubrics, Judges, different competitions. Bhangra in the UK is being forced to evolve year on because when there is only 1 comp and you have to try and be the best at it, you're constantly trying to build on what you did before. So simple formations turn complex, complex formations turn even more complex. 90bpm turns to 95bpm which then turns to 98bpm which then turns to 105bpm (the speed we danced at for a small segment). Drops need to be hyper than before and hit harder than before. Now this was just a brief explanation to the why the UK sets are hype and creative. Also, Vasda Punjab sets are usually not hype, they're sets are based on nakhra,luddi and usually have a slower set than GCC/AJ so not every set is hype. Now the US/Canadians (the teams I mentioned) sets in comparison focus more on that nasty desi execution and sync but not as much on formations (although formations are still 100lid), which sort of makes the execution side of things easier (I'm sure I don't need to build on this point). Now if NJ were to come to the UK, we don't know if their Circle City set would have won so easily. Their execution was unreal but would they lose marks on formations vs teams in the UK who actively focus on that. Vice Versa, if a UK team came to B6ix for example, would the formation work be taken as over complicated and subsequent marking down of execution play a part in the UK set not winning or placing, possible and we don't know. However, if UK teams WERE going up against NA teams IN NA and were to simplify their formations which is more easily done and focus on execution/team sync, could they match or surpass NA teams. Very Likely. Now, if NA teams were to come to UK and compete and made their formations very creative and complex effecting their execution a bit (assuming), would they STILL win against the UK teams, once again we don't know and it is a possibility.

BUT, when JVD and APPD came to the US to compete, they would have made their sets based on the points I made above and they Won and placed vs when SIAC came to UK and did not place. Mind you JVD haven't competed in a Mix comp in the UK since 2013 and APPD have never placed in a mix comp in the UK but they came and won/placed in the US. Now these aren't shots but I'm putting objective results forward to back my points.

Now regarding the mix, I can't comment on the US scene as I only know Gsingh and Gsimz and they know I rate them as we're in touch every so often. However, I DO agree the UK mixes are similar which I can give an insight on just so people who have been tuning into BTF tamasha over last day or two can get a behind the scenes. Now HSM,Hardo,Prem and myself are part of the same team. When we recruited Hardo/Prem into our team, HSM and I showed them many techniques,shared samples and certain aspects of how to make a better mix and as they've evolved, they've shared everything they've learned back. So 3 of us sound similar due to that (however, I would argue Prem actually has his own unique sound and HSM does not mix anymore). 3 of us are ALSO working with A LOT of UK teams and have been for the last too many years. So in a UK comp, if there are 8 teams competing, 5 maybe 6 mixes will have been made by us. Other mixers like Inaik and Rav also make technically sounding mixes. Now GCC were sort of the first team to pioneer the sound you're hearing today in the UK. But as the years have gone by, copycat mixers like Kiron somethingzur have just made a khlaara out of it and other mixers are also trying to make sounds like that. I have personally had MANY (MANY) guys say, I want my mixes to sound like yours or "i'm clearly influenced by that GCC sound" and many many many many more statements based on that theme. Now to match the hypeness that GCC/Uob/Aston (and generally mixes made by Hardo/Prem/Myself) mixes have, other mixes have incorporated similar build ups, drops, effects, using the same vocals by googling the lyrics and finding the acapella and a lot more technical jargon which without meaning to (or maybe deliberately), ends up making the mixes sound similar. Put everything I've said above together and basically 99% of the mixes coming out of the UK end up sounding similar. Some better than others but still with major similarities.

Now regarding individual dancers, I understand your point but at the same time I don't think you know the scene well enough to make that call (no disrespect intended). There are many dancers like Hardo, Ishan, Tegh, Jag, Hash, Aron, Sukh Vasda who have year on year done 100lid performances, won Best dancer awards and just overall done a very full bhangra performance where they've had power,nakhra,energy,execution and that X factor. And these are just the guys. Girls like Simi, Priya, Rajbir, Taran, Shreya, Madhvi have all done the same at the same level. Jodi wise, Ishan & Kips, Hardo & Sukhi, Juggy & Madhvi, Sukh and Pali have all been standout in jodi chemistry and whatever else you're looking for. These are just the people I've noticed, other may put up even more dancers. Now, whether you've noticed them but not known who they are or not even noticed them is a different point. Once again, we can't compare them to dancers like Prabh Saini or the Khera brothers. We'll never know till we see dancers like Prabh Saini do a GCC set vs Hardo doing a SPD set. They're all top dancers in their own scene.

If clear judging/rubrics were agreed on, regardless of location it would genuinely be interesting to see a line up with GCC,NJ,SPD,Soormay,VP,AJ and BASS from AUS who are competitively winning there year in year out.
 
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Dss91

Member
Messages
30
Convenient to go down the the path of “differences between..” instead of calling it straight.

I could have come on here in 2010/11 and said “nah you guys aren’t the leaders in making elite sets, we (UK) just make sets that are different to you! We prefer more entertainment and we prefer not having a segment order. All 8 teams at TBS look completely different!!”

Your scene has had its time of pushing the envelope in making sets, making them hype/creative, having interesting and conceptual formations/segments that see dancers pushed to their limits. Put all of these things together and inevitably you have some level of messiness. I’m not saying being messy is a prerequisite, but when you think of performances that had people talking - that’s is in part what you’d see. These performances were mainly by the Canadian teams that I mentioned earlier on the other thread.

Please don’t take this as “being messy is a badge of honour” - the truth is we’d love to be Aston/UoB clean with a GCC set and we try, but it doesn’t happen due to complexity and we’d prefer not to sacrifice choreo for it. Playing it safe is what we did at our university teams when we couldn’t control the calibre of dancers. (The same guys who captain and choreograph for GCC have also done so for Aston and UoB - some of the cleanest teams in the UK, So don't come out and say we can't clean sets.)

If you care to spend more than 20 minutes watching UK sets you’ll see most teams have a different style.

Truth is, hype sets with creative/conceptual formations and segments, alongside a kicking mix that pushes their dancers’ ability are mainly coming out of the UK now.

How many times did a US team win against the top Canadian teams when they came over to compete? It’s still the same today - SPD showed up and won Bruin recently. NJJ won Circle City.

The USA scene has regressed, I think it’s time to get out of your bubble and really see what’s happening.

P.S. Stop saying come over here and compete. There’s nothing left on your side of the Atlantic.
 

UmerQureshi96

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
94
Listen I'll be honest, if we had all year to go to train for one comp, we would probably do better too. We choreographed, made formations, and taught our Big10 set as soon as Mela was over. Essentially did that whole thing in 3 weeks and you could make the argument that was one of the best sets FCB has made. Give us an entire year to actually clean, tweak the set, and get comfortable with the whole thing?
The teams in the states compete more, means we have to change major parts of our set or make entire new sets wayyyyy more often.
 

harind_singh

Member
Messages
27
HAHAHAHAHAH who tf are these no-names? lol don't think I've ever heard of any of them and probably because they're irrelevant and not worth watching
HAHAHAHAHAHA who tf are you? Lol don’t think i’ve ever seen someone so sad to make a fake profile today at 12:48pm just to post something so irrelevant.

Keep it up lad, maybe one day you’ll find the stones to put your name to something you say??
 

Gabbarsingh4

New Member
Messages
7
Greetings fellow lad

kindly come to the US so I can smack you in a danceoff and then serve you with some piping hot chai afterward

I could be the worst dancer in the north American circuit and still have better fundamentals than 95% of the dancers in your circuit. you look like the hunchback of notre dame when you dance and it seems like you enjoy running marathons than actually taking pride in set creativity. oh that's right, the creativity lies in the lighting. my bad

and by the way, I was just following your lead by failing to disclose my name and team affiliation, something you blokes apparently take enjoyment in
 

hsdeol

Active Member
Messages
485
its been a while since ive watched a set (UK or NA), but do UK teams still have more dancers on stage than US teams? I remember teams swapping dancers too a few years back. no idea whats been going on tho
 

harind_singh

Member
Messages
27
Greetings fellow lad

kindly come to the US so I can smack you in a danceoff and then serve you with some piping hot chai afterward

I could be the worst dancer in the north American circuit and still have better fundamentals than 95% of the dancers in your circuit. you look like the hunchback of notre dame when you dance and it seems like you enjoy running marathons than actually taking pride in set creativity. oh that's right, the creativity lies in the lighting. my bad

and by the way, I was just following your lead by failing to disclose my name and team affiliation, something you blokes apparently take enjoyment in
Loool yo man bhangra aside, I really hope you find some peace in life. Must take some effort to be you. So ignorant and so scared. Hope it all turns around for you!
 

hsdeol

Active Member
Messages
485
just something to point out with NA dancers that are pretty good- they dance for multiple teams. I remember some guys dancing with 3 different teams on three different weekends. that means remembering your uni teams set and practicing, learning another teams set by video and traveling for their comp, and learning your pro teams set and performing. there were times were dancers would perform multiple sets in one night if the comp allowed it or as exhibition and as a competitive team. ---> No idea if this happens with UK sets

another possible difference- NA teams deal with border problems. do UK teams deal with border problems (i have no idea)
 

Gabbarsingh4

New Member
Messages
7
Loool yo man bhangra aside, I really hope you find some peace in life. Must take some effort to be you. So ignorant and so scared. Hope it all turns around for you!
hahaha man I got all the peace in the world. coming on here to trash talk an entire circuit acting like a god at something you hardly know about, and doing it all without revealing your name? if Hardeep didn't give you up you woulda stayed quiet about it too, which is the worst part
 

hardeep_singh

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,475
90bpm turns to 95bpm which then turns to 98bpm which then turns to 105bpm (the speed we danced at for a small segment). Drops need to be hyper than before and hit harder than before.
if the uk circuit thinks speed and hype are the best ways to present bhangra, you all need some training from old school coaches in punjab, maybe then you'll finally learn proper form. some punjabi language lessons would probably help as well.

Now regarding the mix, I can't comment on the US scene as I only know Gsingh and Gsimz and they know I rate them as we're in touch every so often.
lol the arrogance of this dude to think he's anywhere near the level of gsingh and gsimz. i would love to hear an honest opinion from harman toor as to what he thinks of your mixes or englandi mixes in general. @HarmanToor

We'll never know till we see dancers like Prabh Saini do a GCC set vs Hardo doing a SPD set.
lol at trying to compare an accomplished dancer/coach who has danced high level music and live bhangra to some uk nobody whose claim to legitimacy rests on winning 5 comps by dancing on 90 to 105 bpm mixes. this dudes got jokes.
 
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