Differences in UK vs NA Circuits

OfficialUKBhangra

New Member
Messages
1
"hardeep_singh, post: . you/your team/your circuit will never be considered elite specifically because all you seem to care about is winning and what you have to gain by winning, you'll never learn to give in and just dance free."

Whatever you stated here is clearly irrelevant. We do bhangra to compete but when you put a trophy at the end of it, it immediately becomes a sport. When you compete in a sport, all you ever care about is WINNING. @hardeep_singh, why are you being so bitter about the fact that GCC won? Come down to the UK with 'your' team and put out a fire set like way GCC did for the last couple of years, even AJ in 2016 and then we can discuss!
 

hardeep_singh

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,475
"hardeep_singh, post: . you/your team/your circuit will never be considered elite specifically because all you seem to care about is winning and what you have to gain by winning, you'll never learn to give in and just dance free."

Whatever you stated here is clearly irrelevant. We do bhangra to compete but when you put a trophy at the end of it, it immediately becomes a sport. When you compete in a sport, all you ever care about is WINNING. @hardeep_singh, why are you being so bitter about the fact that GCC won? Come down to the UK with 'your' team and put out a fire set like way GCC did for the last couple of years, even AJ in 2016 and then we can discuss!
That's the fundamental difference between our perspectives, in my view bhangra is an art-form, by considering bhangra solely as a sport you disregard the cultural aspects of it. no matter how much prize money or trophies are involved an artform only becomes a "sport" to those who see it as just a sport. there is plenty of that mentality in the NA circuit as well. i have no problem with GCC winning their competition, i saw their set as flawed, and those two things are not mutually exclusive. i have no problem being told i'm a nobody and "not rated" because i have nothing to gain by trying to dance with a team and win a comp, i've been the worst dancer at a competition before, i became a much better dancer after i learned to appreciate bhangra as an art-form. there's only one thing i would really love to do, which is to choreo and dance a live set with a good dholi and singer, a dream a lot of people who love bhangra and have passed through the circuit wish they could accomplish.
 
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sukhrana

Current Team: GCC
Messages
35
That's the fundamental difference between our perspectives, in my view bhangra is an art-form, by considering bhangra solely as a sport you disregard the cultural aspects of it. no matter how much prize money or trophies are involved an artform only becomes a "sport" to those who see it as just a sport. there is plenty of that mentality in the NA circuit as well. i have no problem with GCC winning their competition, i saw their set as flawed, and those two things are not mutually exclusive. i have no problem being told i'm a nobody and "not rated" because i have nothing to gain by trying to dance with a team and win a comp, i've been the worst dancer at a competition before, i became a much better dancer after i learned to appreciate bhangra as an art-form. there's only one thing i would really love to do, which is to choreo and dance a live set with a good dholi and singer, a dream a lot of people who love bhangra and have passed through the circuit wish they could accomplish.
Can you stop making yourself out to be the saint of the scene and that everyone who competes does not appreciate bhangra as much as you.

Competition is healthy for bhangra, its one of the reasons why so many people stay connected to the scene and LEARN ABOUT BHANGRA. Many dance forms have competitions based on specifics, does that mean they are all considered a sport when a trophy for their efforts is included?

You sit on your high horse bringing everything back to your undenying 'understanding' of everything culture whilst criticising others by suggesting they have no idea what folk is? Calm ya self down. Just because we dont incorporate knowledge about bhangra in our replies doesn't mean were clueless about it. Clearly you need to keep reminding everyone including yourself that you're worth the time, but its getting boring now.

We love the art, we have practiced, performed and won. Stop making this about yourself now and go for a walk.
 

saagarm

Active Member
Messages
20
Convenient to go down the the path of “differences between..” instead of calling it straight.

I could have come on here in 2010/11 and said “nah you guys aren’t the leaders in making elite sets, we (UK) just make sets that are different to you! We prefer more entertainment and we prefer not having a segment order. All 8 teams at TBS look completely different!!”

Your scene has had its time of pushing the envelope in making sets, making them hype/creative, having interesting and conceptual formations/segments that see dancers pushed to their limits. Put all of these things together and inevitably you have some level of messiness. I’m not saying being messy is a prerequisite, but when you think of performances that had people talking - that’s is in part what you’d see. These performances were mainly by the Canadian teams that I mentioned earlier on the other thread.

Please don’t take this as “being messy is a badge of honour” - the truth is we’d love to be Aston/UoB clean with a GCC set and we try, but it doesn’t happen due to complexity and we’d prefer not to sacrifice choreo for it. Playing it safe is what we did at our university teams when we couldn’t control the calibre of dancers. (The same guys who captain and choreograph for GCC have also done so for Aston and UoB - some of the cleanest teams in the UK, So don't come out and say we can't clean sets.)

If you care to spend more than 20 minutes watching UK sets you’ll see most teams have a different style.

Truth is, hype sets with creative/conceptual formations and segments, alongside a kicking mix that pushes their dancers’ ability are mainly coming out of the UK now.

How many times did a US team win against the top Canadian teams when they came over to compete? It’s still the same today - SPD showed up and won Bruin recently. NJJ won Circle City.

The USA scene has regressed, I think it’s time to get out of your bubble and really see what’s happening.

P.S. Stop saying come over here and compete. There’s nothing left on your side of the Atlantic.

Hey man, I just wanted to bring up personal thoughts on the subject and not in an attacking way, cause I think everyone on this thread is getting way toooo hype and agitated, and thats from both the US and UK side hahaha. Relatively new to the circuit (2.5 years in) I loved watching Akhile @ WBBC and their red jodi dude was absolutely filthy. And 100% I agree with Sid when it comes to mixes are hype and mechanisms and stuff are insane within your set.

That being said I miss that JVD, Ankhile way off dancing, they were all pretty fundamentally sound and danced as one unit and executed at a level that I really enjoyed. As for your point about not sacrificing choreo to it, I think your guys' complexity comes from your formations, not necessarily from your choreography. There's rarely a point in any one of a majority of UK sets where the dancers take a moment in spot to sit into a jandhu sangha, or fully execute patake to the extent some of your tall dancers should be if that makes any sense. It would be nice to see that stuff again from the UK circuit.

AS you've pointed out you think our circuit has pushed the envelope with our set creation and its starting to regress. But you realize that it could be argued that your circuit will be doing the same thing until a team decides that dancing at 3000 bpm is not gonna be worth it. I appreciate the work and bodily stamina it must take to dance that fast for an entire set, lord knows I could never pull that off (I love mcdonalds too much). That being said theres only so much mechanistic formations and constant movement and fast dancing that can be appreciated if that makes sense.

I could tell you specifically a time where US teams have beaten Canadian teams. Furteelay beat NJ at MCB, Furteelay beat NJJ at Circle City, NJA didn't place at Burgh this year, neither did Royal Academy. We can all pull out times where stuff like that happens. I don't think that is in any way a way to say that we have regressed.

I also think that we are at a place in time where we cannot even compare the two circuits at all. UK circuit is completely different from the United States circuit, you guys do the fast paced hype mix push dancers. Within the US we have two different circuits, with the "folk teams" versus "creative teams" , with some creativity and folkness being found within each. We're comparing personal opinions rather than actually sitting down and understanding the side each team is coming from. I think if we wanna keep pushing Bhangra as a whole to continue to gather attraction, there's a lot we can learn from y'all and theres stuff y'all can learn from us. This way it becomes us pushing together to continue to pass down bhangra, rather than just both sides refusing to see a different interpretation of how bhangra should be done and arguing it to a point where its not fun anymore haha.

Just to put some of my thoughts on this, respond if you want I'd love to continue this conversation at any point
 

hardeep_singh

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,475
Can you stop making yourself out to be the saint of the scene and that everyone who competes does not appreciate bhangra as much as you.

Competition is healthy for bhangra, its one of the reasons why so many people stay connected to the scene and LEARN ABOUT BHANGRA. Many dance forms have competitions based on specifics, does that mean they are all considered a sport when a trophy for their efforts is included?

You sit on your high horse bringing everything back to your undenying 'understanding' of everything culture whilst criticising others by suggesting they have no idea what folk is? Calm ya self down. Just because we dont incorporate knowledge about bhangra in our replies doesn't mean were clueless about it. Clearly you need to keep reminding everyone including yourself that you're worth the time, but its getting boring now.

We love the art, we have practiced, performed and won. Stop making this about yourself now and go for a walk.
you guys tired? i can keep going for like this forever. the assessment that i'm a nobody was spot on, i have no rep to worry about and nothing to lose. your team decided to take some criticism, which everyone has the freedom to post, and blow it up and get confrontational on a personal level, which has only accomplished to make GCC look as stupid as i am. congrats lol.
 
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TegHans

Well-Known Member
BTF Mixing Mod
Messages
112
Imo UK teams wow'd me the most in 2014. Since then very little has changed really and everything seems to follow a template.

Set Design wise, as has already been mentioned, formationally UK sets are superior. Other than that, literally everything I've seen since then has been more or less the same...everyone is clean and there's a clear template that's being followed. Literally EVERY vid i watched from Bhangrafest followed the EXACT same template: start slow, gradually speed up then pick up saaps and go from there. The only exception was AJ and that was because they hit a set backwards...even then the "ending" of the set was slow haha

Dancing wise, the thing that bothers me is that you can tell everyone on stage is just trying to fit in and hit their formations before everything else. This may just be me, but that should not be a dancer's priority. Each dancer needs to have personality and in NA and even Australia now, the best teams have dancers who stand out in their own way. You guys in the UK all got the same style and it just makes things boring. Look at NJ here, even within their academy each of their teams’ styles are different from one another. You guys gotta take more risks as dancers is what I’m tryna say I gues.

Mixing wise i don’t even know where to start. Hardo, you got mad talent but sell yourself short every time by sticking to a template. I hear the same synth patterns over and over again with tru skool instrumentals and the EXACT same hip hop vocals too. Imo frenzy started this whole entire “Bhangra mix in one key” thing and since then it’s been the UK norm. I just don’t understand why you guys have to pitch everything up sooooo much...the last thing I wanna hear are alvin and the chipmunks versions of classic manak tracks lol. I think your Nj waris mix at 6ix was so much hotter than the rest of your mixes cause it felt more natural and less chipmunky.
It’s the same with a ton of NA mixers too (here it’s just sustained bass kick snare patterns, basic dhol loops, the “whoop whoop” from sound of da police, and hi hats). It makes sense though. If the template sells and gets you love, then milk tf out of it. I just think eventually the creativity goes out the window once drops and shit are easily predictable.

At modern ass comps like wbbc it’s obviously gonna be more production-value based. I remember when AJ went HAM at TBC in 2014. They took the same exact set to Tdot and got beat by even US teams. So rubrics play a role. Tdot was much more of a traditional comp than wbbc or Boston and the results speak for themselves. Take more risks as dancers, try to be more unique from team to team and don’t rely on things like seizure-inducing lighting cues to sell your product.
 

harind_singh

Member
Messages
27
you guys tired? i can keep going for like this forever. the assessment that i'm a nobody was spot on, i have no rep to worry about and nothing to lose. your team decided to take some criticism, which everyone has the freedom to post, and blow it up and get confrontational on a personal level, which has only accomplished to make GCC look as stupid as i am. congrats lol.
If anything, you've looked more stupid over the last 20 posts than you've done in your previous 1400 posts, which to be fair still isn't as big of an achievement as being the worst dancer at a comp. congrats lol

Right now then....

I think your guys' complexity comes from your formations, not necessarily from your choreography. There's rarely a point in any one of a majority of UK sets where the dancers take a moment in spot to sit into a jandhu sangha, or fully execute patake to the extent some of your tall dancers should be if that makes any sense. It would be nice to see that stuff again from the UK circuit.
I appreciate where you're coming from but there's been a bit of theme from the US posts about this. I feel that saying to focus on execution vs the overall complexity of a set (whether it be choreo complexity or formation complexity) is a cop out. There's been a few posts about how the US scene focuses on execution vs UK compromising execution by doing crazy formations. If someone can post up a US set from the 2017/2018 season (bar the teams mentioned previously like NJ/SPD/Soormay) that shows superior execution by a set of dancers vs the top tier UK sets that have come out, we can then discuss this in more detail.

The claim is that the focus is execution but I have yet to see a set from the US where I've enjoyed watching the Bhangra. Forget the formations, forget the mix, forget the choreo complexity, just pure Bhangra. (Obv talking about mix sets before some genius posts a live set). We can talk in personal opinions and subjective thoughts all we want, but @Dss91 showed that by posting UoB/Aston vs DRP video comparison. Now I understand DRP is not a good example, but let's see another team that showcases this Execution that is such a focus in the US scene. As mentioned, Aston at TBS18 is one of the cleanest sets to come out of the UK while showing complexity in their formations. I'm happy to discuss this further but let's see a set from the US that shows this execution? So we can have a direct comparison for this discussion. So far, there's only been claims that "our scene focuses on showing Bhangra, judges want to see simple formations with clean execution of moves" etc. As mentioned before, I don't follow the US scene as I used to but still give placing and winning sets a watch and I can't pick out a set that shows this (bar the teams already mentioned before).

Now you've said that UK shows complexity/creativity from formations and not choreography? Now once again this may be a subjective thing, I'm unsure in what you're looking for in creative choreography/set making? I'll list a few moments below..

- VP at BF17 starting set with a Jhoomer segment
- Kings College at TBS2018 doing a Dandaas segment
- Aston at TBS2018 starting their set with a formational Dhamaal piece
- Uob at TBS 2017 starting their set with Mirza
- GCC at BF17 doing a Jhoomer style Mela in the middle of the set
- GCC at BF18 starting set with Phumaniya

Now these are all winning and/or placing sets so it's not like i'm pulling some random or unheard sets out here.
I'm not trying to change your opinion, but I'm showing that there is a different perspective here that the US scene seems to either miss or ignore. The claim has been made enough but there's proof yet to be seen.

From the start of these threads, the claim from us (not all the UK but just a few of us) that there is no attraction to compete in the US because we believe that right now, UK sets are superior to US sets in all aspects. I still stand by this statement as I've yet to be shown a set that shows this. The claim is that IF UK teams were to compete against US teams, there would be no comparison as UK teams win all day every day in every aspect of competition based bhangra and this is shown by posting sets that show clean execution by teams, creative choreo, creative formations and complex concepts and complex overall sets.

Of course no one can prove any of these points made above by me or anyone else until we see the top tier teams from every scene go at it at one comp.

Set Design wise, as has already been mentioned, formationally UK sets are superior. Other than that, literally everything I've seen since then has been more or less the same...everyone is clean and there's a clear template that's being followed. Literally EVERY vid i watched from Bhangrafest followed the EXACT same template: start slow, gradually speed up then pick up saaps and go from there. The only exception was AJ and that was because they hit a set backwards...even then the "ending" of the set was slow haha

Dancing wise, the thing that bothers me is that you can tell everyone on stage is just trying to fit in and hit their formations before everything else. This may just be me, but that should not be a dancer's priority. Each dancer needs to have personality and in NA and even Australia now, the best teams have dancers who stand out in their own way. You guys in the UK all got the same style and it just makes things boring. Look at NJ here, even within their academy each of their teams’ styles are different from one another. You guys gotta take more risks as dancers is what I’m tryna say I guess.

Take more risks as dancers, try to be more unique from team to team and don’t rely on things like seizure-inducing lighting cues to sell your product.
You've said that "Literally EVERY vid i watched from Bhangrafest followed the EXACT same template". See above where I've listed sets showing creativity in their sets and not following this slow to fast template you mention. But...

Top 3 Teams at BF18 in order
GCC - Started with Jhoomer bethka and then Fast Phumaniya before Sapp
VP - Live style Slow entrance (This fits the template that you mention)
AJ - Started Hype

3 Teams, 3 different starts and set structures.

Also, Soormay won at Legacy by starting slow and then sped up for their sapp segment.

This may be a template to some, but top teams understand how to build sets and showcase pace changes. I can say exactly the same about US sets few years ago where everyone used to do a Khunda pose as a slow drop during their fast Khunda segment (and generally slow drops in their fast segments).

We're talking about teams having styles. This is a cop out once again. Back in NJ vs SGPD days we used to say this and it made sense, but now every top team is trying to show how bhangra is executed. There is at least a consensus by top teams about how certain moves are done. Majority of UK teams have this "style" because they're trying to better their Bhangra execution year in year out. NJ and SPD execute moves in a similar manner. Obviously, someone is going to quote this post and say "no they do this move different and this move different"...But generally, 80-90% of the moves are done the same as this is taken from folk execution.

Also, when live teams perform they don't have a "style", they all execute the moves the same. Does this mean they're boring? Do they need to be be more unique?

I personally don't agree with "every dancer needs their own personality". This is a team based sport. Being a unit is what wins you competitions. If every dancer tries to show their personality during a set, the unity and sync is thrown out without regard. Maybe this is where the US sets are going wrong.

And last point about "don’t rely on things like seizure-inducing lighting cues to sell your product". TBS is the only comp that does this and that's because the teams don't get much of a say in this. Now it's fair that no one outside of UK scene may know this so I'll not build on your lighting point.

But I will say that trying to sell your product with cringey videos made for Projectors to distract the audience from your sets isn't any better either.
 

harind_singh

Member
Messages
27
For those who haven't been following bhangra lately, what are some must watch music sets from the last 3-4 years? Also, what are the best mixes to come out since then? Music knowledge and technology is so readily available and advanced today that I'd imagine team mixes to be on a next level compared to my generation.
Most of these are First or Second place sets. I've posted more the UK sets as that's the scene i'm in but a few non UK one's that I've enjoyed.











https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXx9dMeCHe8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86aWX0g-s3M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHIHuk1J6iE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-fxC9Jk24k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLPeRT3ltek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jr84ffgWpQ
 

saagarm

Active Member
Messages
20
If anything, you've looked more stupid over the last 20 posts than you've done in your previous 1400 posts, which to be fair still isn't as big of an achievement as being the worst dancer at a comp. congrats lol

Right now then....



I appreciate where you're coming from but there's been a bit of theme from the US posts about this. I feel that saying to focus on execution vs the overall complexity of a set (whether it be choreo complexity or formation complexity) is a cop out. There's been a few posts about how the US scene focuses on execution vs UK compromising execution by doing crazy formations. If someone can post up a US set from the 2017/2018 season (bar the teams mentioned previously like NJ/SPD/Soormay) that shows superior execution by a set of dancers vs the top tier UK sets that have come out, we can then discuss this in more detail.

The claim is that the focus is execution but I have yet to see a set from the US where I've enjoyed watching the Bhangra. Forget the formations, forget the mix, forget the choreo complexity, just pure Bhangra. (Obv talking about mix sets before some genius posts a live set). We can talk in personal opinions and subjective thoughts all we want, but @Dss91 showed that by posting UoB/Aston vs DRP video comparison. Now I understand DRP is not a good example, but let's see another team that showcases this Execution that is such a focus in the US scene. As mentioned, Aston at TBS18 is one of the cleanest sets to come out of the UK while showing complexity in their formations. I'm happy to discuss this further but let's see a set from the US that shows this execution? So we can have a direct comparison for this discussion. So far, there's only been claims that "our scene focuses on showing Bhangra, judges want to see simple formations with clean execution of moves" etc. As mentioned before, I don't follow the US scene as I used to but still give placing and winning sets a watch and I can't pick out a set that shows this (bar the teams already mentioned before).

Now you've said that UK shows complexity/creativity from formations and not choreography? Now once again this may be a subjective thing, I'm unsure in what you're looking for in creative choreography/set making? I'll list a few moments below..

- VP at BF17 starting set with a Jhoomer segment
- Kings College at TBS2018 doing a Dandaas segment
- Aston at TBS2018 starting their set with a formational Dhamaal piece
- Uob at TBS 2017 starting their set with Mirza
- GCC at BF17 doing a Jhoomer style Mela in the middle of the set
- GCC at BF18 starting set with Phumaniya

Now these are all winning and/or placing sets so it's not like i'm pulling some random or unheard sets out here.
I'm not trying to change your opinion, but I'm showing that there is a different perspective here that the US scene seems to either miss or ignore. The claim has been made enough but there's proof yet to be seen.

From the start of these threads, the claim from us (not all the UK but just a few of us) that there is no attraction to compete in the US because we believe that right now, UK sets are superior to US sets in all aspects. I still stand by this statement as I've yet to be shown a set that shows this. The claim is that IF UK teams were to compete against US teams, there would be no comparison as UK teams win all day every day in every aspect of competition based bhangra and this is shown by posting sets that show clean execution by teams, creative choreo, creative formations and complex concepts and complex overall sets.

Of course no one can prove any of these points made above by me or anyone else until we see the top tier teams from every scene go at it at one comp.



You've said that "Literally EVERY vid i watched from Bhangrafest followed the EXACT same template". See above where I've listed sets showing creativity in their sets and not following this slow to fast template you mention. But...

Top 3 Teams at BF18 in order
GCC - Started with Jhoomer bethka and then Fast Phumaniya before Sapp
VP - Live style Slow entrance (This fits the template that you mention)
AJ - Started Hype

3 Teams, 3 different starts and set structures.

Also, Soormay won at Legacy by starting slow and then sped up for their sapp segment.

This may be a template to some, but top teams understand how to build sets and showcase pace changes. I can say exactly the same about US sets few years ago where everyone used to do a Khunda pose as a slow drop during their fast Khunda segment (and generally slow drops in their fast segments).

We're talking about teams having styles. This is a cop out once again. Back in NJ vs SGPD days we used to say this and it made sense, but now every top team is trying to show how bhangra is executed. There is at least a consensus by top teams about how certain moves are done. Majority of UK teams have this "style" because they're trying to better their Bhangra execution year in year out. NJ and SPD execute moves in a similar manner. Obviously, someone is going to quote this post and say "no they do this move different and this move different"...But generally, 80-90% of the moves are done the same as this is taken from folk execution.

Also, when live teams perform they don't have a "style", they all execute the moves the same. Does this mean they're boring? Do they need to be be more unique?

I personally don't agree with "every dancer needs their own personality". This is a team based sport. Being a unit is what wins you competitions. If every dancer tries to show their personality during a set, the unity and sync is thrown out without regard. Maybe this is where the US sets are going wrong.

And last point about "don’t rely on things like seizure-inducing lighting cues to sell your product". TBS is the only comp that does this and that's because the teams don't get much of a say in this. Now it's fair that no one outside of UK scene may know this so I'll not build on your lighting point.

But I will say that trying to sell your product with cringey videos made for Projectors to distract the audience from your sets isn't any better either.

So from my standpoint, complex choreo or creative choreo doesn't start from starting your set differently, cause that goes within set design. Creative choreo is using steps in ways that would bring a fresh light to that particular step if that makes any sense. Like those moments you mentioned above are complex set design starting with different ideas, but for me when i think of creative choreo I think variations.

I think if you wanna talk about great sets, you could watch Furteelay at Motor City 2018, Furteelay at Burgh 2017, Furteelay at Circle City 2 years ago, FCB @ Burgh 2016 (save for the music getting messed up and messing up katos and the ending jumps), and there are definitely more teams that I am missing. Alamo City bhangra always brings very traditional but fun and well executed sets. You can watch FAUJ bhangra from almost anywhere and cream yourself because of their nakhre and creativity and everything in that sense as well. I think both sides can learn from watching both vids, cause I don't think anyone is trying to understand anyone's points. We all just using our hands for something else cause we are bored haha.

all these vids are available through harjot except the first one which is through bhoopz ent. I can link them if you don't have time
 

hardeep_singh

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,475
If anything, you've looked more stupid over the last 20 posts than you've done in your previous 1400 posts, which to be fair still isn't as big of an achievement as being the worst dancer at a comp. congrats lol

Right now then....
after all this back and forth you still haven't managed to convince anyone (not affiliated with GCC) that:
1. GCC/UK teams are the best in the world
2. the GCC BF set was not flawed
3. that your mix didn't completely suck
 

BhangraSUCKS

Active Member
Messages
131
All in all, USA wins

And you know it's such s shame. We could have become friends with these Brits but then they had to come in all wide mouth and googly eyed.
 

Basim

♥ BTF ♥
Staff member
Messages
1,459
Lol wtf is happening in this thread??

Feel free to disagree, but to discuss regional evolution of bhangra, we have to discuss what about each region lends to the influence on the dance. Ultimately, one of the biggest thing we can look at is demographics. Canadian and UK circuits seem to be predominantly Panjabi, however in the US circuit, especially collegiate, Panjabis are a minority. In my opinion, this has a huge impact in dancer level and set design level. A lot of the teams with very few Panjabis are starting extremely fresh and do not always have the time and resources to develop and mature. The non-Panjabi teams that have survived the longest, are the few that have shown any (if any) significance on the circuit.

Furthermore, the US has has a lot of former collegiate dancers (with 0 to very little exposure to Panjabi culture) become judges. This, in my opinion, has also had a HUGEEE impact on the evolution of the circuit. Judges, in the past, have expressed cleanliness/synchronization because those are easier to point out. However, due to the lack of understanding the nuances and the conversion to music from live, judges have failed to build stronger bhangra standards in US.

If you look at Toronto teams, you can see influence from live sets in India, ustaads like Chuch Mahi, etc, however in US, not many have spent the time to study and learn the culture. This is what I think @hardeep_singh is alluding to. There are teams like VCU, JJ, VSB that have shown a great conversion from live to music.

UK circuit has made tremendous strides, especially with some of the performances outlined above. But it looks like each year, the performances are becoming more and more diluted with non-culture based elements. GCC 2014 was a great step forward, and the succeeding years, UK college teams dropped some of the greatest co-ed performances of all time. However, looking at the recent performances, I am not a fan of the trajectory. Captains/dancers of those teams may feel comfortable with their progress, and that's cool. But I think there is a growing disconnect from the cultural nuances in set creation. That's their prerogative if they want to do that.

At the end of the day fellas, trash talk can be healthy for competition. However, let's not become the McGregors of bhangra. US has historically (wink) shown to have beaten the mighty Brits before, and if the challenge arises, I'm sure US teams can prevail. Logistically it's not reasonable to have cross-Atlantic comps, unless there is an International Bhangra Federation that can fund and sponsor teams/comps. <--- Not really likely

I guess the British aren't coming after all.......
Good points @KarnSingh . Some of your thoughts were echoed by me 3 years ago in this topic: http://bhangrateamsforum.com/a/threads/na-vs-uk.26752/#post-235331

There really isn't any point going back & forth fighting about this because you'll need a competition with a mutually agreed upon rubric, mutually agreed upon judges, and a stacked lineup for top tier teams from all circuits (NA, UK, Australia, etc) to battle. Even then, if a team loses, I'm sure there will be complaints about bias/judges sucking/rubric was flawed/etc etc.. a lot of what we typically see after many comps.

I agree, that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

~ Basim :)
 

UmerQureshi96

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
94
@UK mixers/people who know more about this than I do. Anyone know why pitched up vocals caught on so hard in the UK? Like was there some stand out performance where on team used it and it just caught on? Or was it peeps copying Toronto DJs? idk I'm just so curious why most mixes on y'alls side of the pond has that style.
 

jasvig

Jaskirat Vig
Messages
57
@UK mixers/people who know more about this than I do. Anyone know why pitched up vocals caught on so hard in the UK? Like was there some stand out performance where on team used it and it just caught on? Or was it peeps copying Toronto DJs? idk I'm just so curious why most mixes on y'alls side of the pond has that style.
From what I understand, when vocals are pitched up really high, you can't tell the difference between keys. A DJ can use this to their advantage by being able to use whatever instrumental/bassline they want and it won't sound offkey. This is how so many DJs get away with using a template for their mixes.
 

UmerQureshi96

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
94
From what I understand, when vocals are pitched up really high, you can't tell the difference between keys. A DJ can use this to their advantage by being able to use whatever instrumental/bassline they want and it won't sound offkey. This is how so many DJs get away with using a template for their mixes.
nah I mean like where'd it get started. Like Kanye was the first artist I know to pitch up soul vocals and start 'chipmunking' vocals. How'd that end up in the UK Bhangra scene ya know? Like what started it if anyone even knows.
 

faizan

Just shut up and dance
Messages
1,736
Yo harind, thanks for posting all those videos. All the good ones in one place! Very useful for the old timers.
 
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