Intro speech?

ak21

New Member
Messages
2
Hello everyone!

I had a quick question for all of you, I was wondering if any of you know where I can find like something in punjabi that I can use for bhangra tracks. Much like the one seen in the very beginning of this video:

Apna Bhangra Crew @ Bhangra Idols 2009 (1080 HD)

if you have any idea please let me know :)
 

Sukha

Member
Messages
530
They're not speeches, they're called shers and you find them at the beggining of punjabi songs (ex. a lot of jaswinder daghamias songs). Hope this helps.
 

yraparla

SwizzeeMusic.com
Messages
2,072
Sukha said:
They're not speeches, they're called shers and you find them at the beggining of punjabi songs (ex. a lot of jaswinder daghamias songs). Hope this helps.
I think gibb told us to spell it shair? so as to not confuse them with large cats. anybody who knows punjabi-english transliteration really well want to chime in?
 

Arjun Barua

Member
Messages
650
Swi said:
I think gibb told us to spell it shair? so as to not confuse them with large cats. anybody who knows punjabi-english transliteration really well want to chime in?

+1 Swi.

Shair makes more sense for transliteration, since the vowel sound is the same as in the English word hair.


The word for the animal, sher, is often mispronounced. This vowel sound should be the same as in the English word shape.
 

faizan

Just shut up and dance
Messages
1,738
Sher means cuplet, it is an urdu word, and its root is the word SHAIYRI which means poetry.


In Punjab Sher means Tiger.


They are the same words, same pronunciation, different languages, different meaning. Interestingly, the word for Lion in Urdu is "Singh." I love south-asian languages so much man.
 

himynameis

New Member
Messages
334
Swi said:
Sukha said:
They're not speeches, they're called shers and you find them at the beggining of punjabi songs (ex. a lot of jaswinder daghamias songs). Hope this helps.
I think gibb told us to spell it shair? so as to not confuse them with large cats. anybody who knows punjabi-english transliteration really well want to chime in?
Large cat? I think you mean lion
 

faizan

Just shut up and dance
Messages
1,738
haha, no he means large cats...the south asian "big cat" lexicon is ubber confused and misused...due to the mix of farsi, urdu, arabic, punjabi, hindi in the north of South-Asia, words are all over the place.


they call leopards "CHEETA"
tigers can be sher, but never babar sher
lions can be sher or babar sher or SINGH (whoop whoop, wait i'm muslim)
all other big cats have tons of random names, but most people just call them either a sher or a cheeta...it's weird...google it, you'll never get a correct answer...


It's spelled shair because it comes from shaiyri...not because of anything to do with pronunciation...


Shair makes more sense for transliteration, since the vowel sound is the same as in the English word hair.


The word for the animal, sher, is often mispronounced. This vowel sound should be the same as in the English word shape.
this is incorrect...the vowel sound for shair (cuplet) and sher (lion) is the same, and is not the same as the vowel sound in the English hair. The vowel sound must take account for a HARD "R," where your tounge pushes off the roof your mouth, as opposed to the english vowel sound where the "R" never would require contact between the tounge and the roof of your mouth. If either words had the vowel sound of hair, it would be spelled SHARE like you know, "to share with others." Since the english alphabet has no hard "R," it can never have the same vowel sound as words like Sher or Shair.


And since SHAIR and SHER are pronounced the same, the above vowel sound with the hard "r" would apply to sher (lion) as well. The vowel sound in shape again does not, and cannot due to the limitations of the English alphabet, sound the same as SHER.


Just to throw it out there, in urdu, and shahmukhi, SHER (lion) is spelled with the the respective versions of "S" "Y" and "hard R" Or if you know the letters, sheen, ya, Rra. It is the "Y" and the hard "R" that are the precise reason for the vowel sound not being "AIR" but "AYRD." If someone knows gurumukhi or hindi, which letters do you use? And are sher (lion) and shair (cuplet) spelled the same?
 

Don

New Member
Messages
529
himynameis said:
Swi said:
Sukha said:
They're not speeches, they're called shers and you find them at the beggining of punjabi songs (ex. a lot of jaswinder daghamias songs). Hope this helps.
I think gibb told us to spell it shair? so as to not confuse them with large cats. anybody who knows punjabi-english transliteration really well want to chime in?
Large cat? I think you mean lion

a lion is a large cat...

they are all members of the family Felidae
 

abhigames

Member
Messages
709
BRRUAH! said:
Swi said:
I think gibb told us to spell it shair? so as to not confuse them with large cats. anybody who knows punjabi-english transliteration really well want to chime in?
Hairrrrr....Shappeeeee....Haiiiirrr.....Shapeee....Hairrrr....lol

+1 Swi.

Shair makes more sense for transliteration, since the vowel sound is the same as in the English word hair.


The word for the animal, sher, is often mispronounced. This vowel sound should be the same as in the English word shape.
 

akshyz

New Member
Messages
110
faizan said:
haha, no he means large cats...the south asian "big cat" lexicon is ubber confused and misused...due to the mix of farsi, urdu, arabic, punjabi, hindi in the north of South-Asia, words are all over the place.


they call leopards "CHEETA"
tigers can be sher, but never babar sher
lions can be sher or babar sher or SINGH (whoop whoop, wait i'm muslim)
all other big cats have tons of random names, but most people just call them either a sher or a cheeta...it's weird...google it, you'll never get a correct answer...


It's spelled shair because it comes from shaiyri...not because of anything to do with pronunciation...


Shair makes more sense for transliteration, since the vowel sound is the same as in the English word hair.


The word for the animal, sher, is often mispronounced. This vowel sound should be the same as in the English word shape.
this is incorrect...the vowel sound for shair (cuplet) and sher (lion) is the same, and is not the same as the vowel sound in the English hair. The vowel sound must take account for a HARD "R," where your tounge pushes off the roof your mouth, as opposed to the english vowel sound where the "R" never would require contact between the tounge and the roof of your mouth. If either words had the vowel sound of hair, it would be spelled SHARE like you know, "to share with others." Since the english alphabet has no hard "R," it can never have the same vowel sound as words like Sher or Shair.


And since SHAIR and SHER are pronounced the same, the above vowel sound with the hard "r" would apply to sher (lion) as well. The vowel sound in shape again does not, and cannot due to the limitations of the English alphabet, sound the same as SHER.


Just to throw it out there, in urdu, and shahmukhi, SHER (lion) is spelled with the the respective versions of "S" "Y" and "hard R" Or if you know the letters, sheen, ya, Rra. It is the "Y" and the hard "R" that are the precise reason for the vowel sound not being "AIR" but "AYRD." If someone knows gurumukhi or hindi, which letters do you use? And are sher (lion) and shair (cuplet) spelled the same?
Actually in Hindi Leopards are called Tendua or Tendva.. it sounds kinda funny

And Faizan is right.. Lions are called Sher or Babbar Sher or Singh
Tigers are also referred to as Sher OR Baagh. But Baagh has many meaning so it could get confusing.. like it also means garden. lol
 

Argnabh

New Member
Messages
137
Swi said:
Sukha said:
They're not speeches, they're called shers and you find them at the beggining of punjabi songs (ex. a lot of jaswinder daghamias songs). Hope this helps.
I think gibb told us to spell it shair? so as to not confuse them with large cats. anybody who knows punjabi-english transliteration really well want to chime in?
Haha, good point, many hindi/urdu/punjabi speakers joke about the 2 "sher"s to be the same. My 2 cents:

Sher, originally an Arabic word means verse. Usually a sher is 2 lines (2 misra's) but I guess in Bhangra boli's they go upto 4 or more lines too. In plural, you may call them a'shar
 

Argnabh

New Member
Messages
137
Sukha said:
They're not speeches, they're called shers and you find them at the beggining of punjabi songs (ex. a lot of jaswinder daghamias songs). Hope this helps.

although to be fair to the original post, that example was not really a sher....more like a well, speech. A Sher would be like:


shaan dharm di asi hai kaim rakhni
virsa apna saamna jaande haan
dauLe phadkde vairi noo vekh saDDe
taioN moore ho hikkaN taande haan
 

itsG

New Member
Messages
309
so its spelt different in english also because though when commonly spoken the words sound exactly the same they arent

sher (lion) - is pronounced as we speak it
shair ("speech") - when spelling it it has a "pair 'ch haha" under the sasaa so there's this very very slight h sound in it but its so faint when commonly speaking we dont realise it


correct me if i'm wrong i might have just fuked up on which one has the haha on the bottom
 

harjap_singh

New Member
Messages
234
itsG said:
so its spelt different in english also because though when commonly spoken the words sound exactly the same they arent

sher (lion) - is pronounced as we speak it
shair ("speech") - when spelling it it has a "pair 'ch haha" under the sasaa so there's this very very slight h sound in it but its so faint when commonly speaking we dont realise it


correct me if i'm wrong i might have just fuked up on which one has the haha on the bottom
yeah you fucked up...
 

STUDWAL

JAWANI
Messages
44
Swi said:
Sukha said:
They're not speeches, they're called shers and you find them at the beggining of punjabi songs (ex. a lot of jaswinder daghamias songs). Hope this helps.
I think gibb told us to spell it shair? so as to not confuse them with large cats. anybody who knows punjabi-english transliteration really well want to chime in?
+1
 

itsG

New Member
Messages
309
harjap_singh said:
itsG said:
so its spelt different in english also because though when commonly spoken the words sound exactly the same they arent

sher (lion) - is pronounced as we speak it
shair ("speech") - when spelling it it has a "pair 'ch haha" under the sasaa so there's this very very slight h sound in it but its so faint when commonly speaking we dont realise it


correct me if i'm wrong i might have just fuked up on which one has the haha on the bottom
yeah you fucked up...
Cuz ur plus one ass really knows what ur talking about right?
 
Messages
237
Adab! This is interesting; just noticed this thread.


I was mainly joking when I said to spell the two words differently. True, it would help to distinguish them, but then again, as long as you guys know what you're talking about (which you do), there is no special need.


But anyway, the issue (somewhat pedantic, but for interest's sake) would be that the word for "couplet" has the Arabic letter " 'ain " in it. While this letter has a very distinct sound in Arabic, in Punjabi/Hindi, when saying words that derive from Arabic, it is not pronounced per se. Nonetheless, it is retained in the spelling (in Persian-script and sort-of in Gurmukhi-script Punjabi). AND it has some influence on the pronunciation of the word overall. Finally, people that are trained at poetry often try to pronounce Arabic sounds in their Punjabi/Urdu, so it can vary slightly between poetic pronunciation and "regular" speech.


The "r" is the same in both words. (It is not what I would call a "hard R"; that usually refers to a "retroflex R" as in "bhangRa". I'm not sure what faizan meant by "hard R"/"Rra".) faizan has a point when he comments about the "r" in the English words that BRRUAH! compared. However, I think BRRUAH! was emphasizing the difference in vowels between "hair" and "shape", rather than saying that the Punjabi words were EXACT equivalents. English examples, as faizan is noting, do complicate things because the vowels in those words come under the influence of r. Different English speakers will pronounce those vowels differently. The classic distinction is between "merry," "marry," and "Mary." Probably most English speakers in North America have "lost" the distinction between those words in their pronunciation. In New York City and greater Boston, however, people clearly distinguish between the vowel in "merry" and "marry." For others, the "a" in "marry" has come under the influence of "r" in such a way that it sounds like the "e" in "merry". But this is a side issue, not related to Punjabi.


Still, it can be a useful comparison in thinking about how the letter 'ain influence vowels' pronunciation in the North Indian languages.


The words for "tiger" and "couplet" are spelled differently (in Arabic/Persian-script and Gurmukhi), but they are pronounced the same or nearly the same in Punjabi speech. Whereas most Punjabi words are "spelled as they sound", if you feel like spelling "couplet" exactly (for whatever reason - it's up to you), then it is going to "look" different than it sounds.


The spelling of "tiger" in Persian script is, like faizan said, "sheen, ya, ra".


Spelling in Gurmukhi is ਸ਼ੇਰ. Transliteration of both is SHER, where the E approximates the "a" in "plate" (it is not exact, but this is enough reference to know what sound we are talking about!)


Spelling in Hindi/Devanagri is शेर. Corresponds to Gurmukhi.


The spelling of "couplet" in Persian script is "sheen, 'ain, ra". The vowel understood to be between sheen and 'ain is "zer", and between "'ain" and "ra" there is "nothing" or (as I understand) just the default zabar/a sound.


Transliteration of Persian would be SHI'AR (or SHI'R). The transliteration represents the spelling with short vowel I (as in "spit") and A (as u in ~ "cut"). HOWEVER, the vowels come under the influence of the letter 'ain ('), and the I becomes pronounced more like E.


Which E? For some it sounds exactly the same as the E in SHER (tiger). (In fact, in Hindi, both words have become spelled exactly the same, as if to reflect this. Hindi spelling is poor at representing Arabic letters.) For others (to my ear, but I am willing to be wrong!) it is closer to the E in "bet", which corresponds to Punjabi ਐ (zabar-ya in Persian script) which......and here is where big confusion could happen... is formally transliterated at AI. Yes, you are seeing two letters there, but AI stands for just one vowel sound. In Gurmukhi, E versus AI is ਏ versus ਐ.


In Gurmukhi, "couplet" is written as ਸ਼ਿਅਰ and this would be transliterated as SHIAR. Compare this to the Persian SHI'AR above. Gurmukhi has no way to represent 'ain ('), but the 'ain from historically Arabic words is often evidenced in spelling by a ਅ that doesn't seem to belong there!


Pronunciation of this Gurmukhi spelling is again slightly different than it looks. Think of the word ਮੁੰਡਿਆ which is transliterated MUNDIA but which many would write MUNDEA. An "I" is in the spelling, yet people think it sounds like "E"...albeit not quite the E of ਏ, that is, not quite the E of SHER/ ਸ਼ੇਰ.


So, the "I" in the precisely transliterated SPELLING of "couplet", SHI'AR (Persian style)/SHIAR (Gurmukhi style) is pronounced differently in this context (in the context of the surrounding sounds). This I is pronounced either just like E in SHER (as the Hindi-wallahs) or like AI, which is like a slightly "shorter" form of E that is reflected IMO by Gurmukhi's spelling SH-I-A-R rather than SH-E-R. I think both pronunciations are extant and acceptable. Because I hear AI sound, and because "shiar" looks pretty nutty!, I wrote it informally as "shair".
 
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