NBA Playoffs 2011

Love

New Member
Messages
311
Haha if you think the heat have a window of 5 years, then you're crazy. Wade will be 30 next season. Lebron looks like he's lost a slight step in his driving abilities(see 2010 all star game vs this year). He's gotten bigger but slower. They both rely on athleticism rather than skill(it's true). Both players are average shooters, and sub par shooters for superstars. They have almost non existent post games, and other than the 2 step layup and crab dribble(LOL), wade and Lebron have pretty bad footwork. Chris bosh will age MUCH BETTER than Lebron and wade. He has a fundamental game. Not a "drive in and get free throws every time" game

Lol realized you weren't referring to the heat winning 5, but my point stands for most heat fans. People will remember it as the heat failing and the mavs persevering. They will remember that there are no short cuts to winning a championship, and they will realize that the whole "superstars win championships" theory is false. They'll see Dirk as the guy who sucked it up and stuck with his team to give it a shot, while Lebron Wade and Bosh were the ones who gave up and tried taking the easy way out. They'll remember these finals for a lot of things
 

Gugu

New Member
Messages
257
Kush said:
had a whole post, deleted it, no point.

All i'm saying is that in 5 years, the way you all are acting, noone in the league will remember that it was the Mavs that won... only that the Heat had lost.

Can you feel the hate? i can :)...
Can't blame anyone though bro. They bring the hate upon themselves by acting like idiots off the court. If they weren't "hollywood as hell", nobody would give two shits about Lebron and the Big 3. Kinda sucks that the spotlight is still on them and not on the world champions though. Soon as Lebron shuts his mouth and starts acting like he hasn't achieved anything in this game yet, he will win a championship.

I wanna predict that Miami will win it next year, but then again all the hate this year should've been motivation enough for him to take over games. Hopefully, he comes back even stronger and they get err done.
 

Love

New Member
Messages
311
Apparently some Miami Heat PLAYERS were at the Mavericks' party at club liv last night. Forget the fans, but the players!? Weakkkkkkk.
 

Nikhil

New Member
Messages
881
Wade: "aw man, I'm sick...I'm coughing (making fun of dirk)"
James: "Aw man, I got the sniffles. Actually, I'm doing one better, I'm choking."
 

Kush

Active Member
Messages
1,401
lol love... YOU will remember those things. 95% of basketball will simply remember it as the "year lbj failed"... oh yeah... going to the finals apparently is failure. lol. its a bit over the top. And d wade at 30 is still better than any other 2 guard in the league at 25. Did you not see that pep in his step? he's got another 2 years minimum of running em. I just hope he goes gracefully (though i doubt it).

Gugu, you're talking as though it was the 3 guys themselves who DECIDED, hey lets walk out on stage. IT WAS FUNDED BY THE MIAMI HEAT ORGANIZATION!!! My point being that it wasnt about those 3 guys wanting to say we're gods. its was about a celebration...and it was a big deal! hence the excitement. and hence why its dumb to simply think it was the 3 guys!

Once again, anything short of winning this year would have been lebron failing. If people want to celebrate the fact that he climbed ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP before he was knocked down, then please do. Because 1 year on the heat = NBA Finals Run. What does 2 years mean? or 3? Yeah. its scary.

im gonna throw this out there. I hope they keep eric spoelstra... but anyone wanna bet how long its gonna take before the riley rumors start? or questions about big phil getting a call about coaching the big 3? lol im just curious.
 

Love

New Member
Messages
311
Kush, how could you not expect a run to the finals if you've got 3 prime superstars?
Boston gathered 3 POST PRIME superstars, and made it to the finals AND WON. The Lakers added Pau and made it to the finals in 08. The Lakers added Malone and Payton in 04 and made it to the finals and lost.

2004 and 2008 were considered failures by almost everybody. Boston turned it around in 1 season after decades of failure. Bosh+Lebron+Wade in 2011 > Allen+Pierce+KG in 2008. The Celts just got their shit together, whereas the heat were partying in south beach.
Lebron made it to the finals in 2005, beating the defending champs, only to lose in the finals. But he could blame his team mates for not performing back then. Now he didn't perform in the finals in 2011. And he's responsible for a BIG chunk of the loss.

Kush, there really isn't a great dynamic 2 guard in the league outside of Wade and Kobe. Brandon Roy could have given Wade a run for his money if he didn't go down. I'm curious to see what wade does as he ages. He's undersized for the 2 guard position, so it'll be interesting.
 

ENVY BANG-RUH

Let the music move you!!!!!
Messages
1,151
ranjit.singh said:
defense wins championships
This finals series was the first time that i've seen a zone defense play a huge role as a strategy to win a championship. Dallas didn't use it throughout the games on a constant basis, but for a few possessions at a time, which really took miami's drive game away and left lebron and dwyane to shoot, which they obviously suck at.

Big ups to Rick Carlyle, dude did a fantastic job with his players.
 

Kush

Active Member
Messages
1,401
Love said:
Kush, how could you not expect a run to the finals if you've got 3 prime superstars?
Boston gathered 3 POST PRIME superstars, and made it to the finals AND WON. The Lakers added Pau and made it to the finals in 08. The Lakers added Malone and Payton in 04 and made it to the finals and lost.

2004 and 2008 were considered failures by almost everybody. Boston turned it around in 1 season after decades of failure. Bosh+Lebron+Wade in 2011 > Allen+Pierce+KG in 2008. The Celts just got their shit together, whereas the heat were partying in south beach.
Lebron made it to the finals in 2005, beating the defending champs, only to lose in the finals. But he could blame his team mates for not performing back then. Now he didn't perform in the finals in 2011. And he's responsible for a BIG chunk of the loss.

Kush, there really isn't a great dynamic 2 guard in the league outside of Wade and Kobe. Brandon Roy could have given Wade a run for his money if he didn't go down. I'm curious to see what wade does as he ages. He's undersized for the 2 guard position, so it'll be interesting.
The pieces and roles of KG Pierce and Ray allen fit in together PERFECTLY! Their ability to seemlessly form a team was tremendous, the likes of which we have NEVER SEEN in the league.

WE, on the other hand, took 2 guys strongest at making plays with the ball in their hand, used to controling the tempo and rhythm of their entire offense, and an undersized (by weight) power forward/center who was used to being the offensive threat, and trie dto put them together into a "TEAM". TALENT wise? yes we blow them out of the water... but you realize there wasnt ONCE a question of "oh HOW will the celtics players fit together"... IT WAS OBVIOUS! They all played SUCH different, SUCH complimentary roles. Do you see that with the heat? HELL NO, not till half way through the season! In addition, the variability in options that the celtics had DUE to the fact that they had arguably the second most aggressive powerforward of this last 2 decades (gonna give big Duncan the number one spot, even though hes more centerish), who had a TERRIFYING post game and bring it hard attitude, an under-athletic but overtly talented versatile scorer in paul pierce, and the second greatest 3 point shooter the game has EVER SEEN!

Hm... you think it MIGHT work if we let paul pierce run alot of the offense, let KG take feeds for hte post game and play his amazing defense, and run screens for Ray allen who shoots LIGHTS OUT with an inch of space? haha their "BIG THREE" is IMPOSSIBLE to compare to ours. BTW, how many people gave them shit, 3 allstars who never won shit till they came together? i dont remember that being the talk of the town, i remember it being, damn these boys have bled out, its LUCKY theyre going to have each other to make it.

Fast Forward to 2010. I'm not even gonna list the talents and abilities of the heat, but its safe to say theres MUCH LESS CLEAR LINES on who excels and who defines WHAT ASPECTS OF THE GAME. WE ARE AN INCOMPLETE TEAM! this wasnt even QUESTIONED from the get go. but an incomplete team beat the supposedly more lethal and deeper chicago bulls in 5! The beat the defending championship lakers TWICE! and they let SLIP, a championship in their first year of establishment.

EXPECT a run to the finals? Tell me, how many people had Boston beating us round 2? how many people had us beating CHICAGO!? yeah, finals run expected, my ass. EVEN WHEN WE GOT THERE, I'll go so far as to say we got in our own way JUST AS MUCh as the MAVS got in our way. And they, playing tremendous basketball, exploited it. Ill go even further. NO TEAM COMING OUT OF THE WEST WOULD HAVE STOOD A CHANCE BEAT US except for the spurs... or possibly memphis (mostly due to their inside size advantage, it would have been horrendous)... you know why? because the spurs were the most complete team in the west, and the grizzlies had a size mismatch. Forget LA, who i dont think would have made it past okc, even if they did beat the mavs.

So once again, i'll take my ALMOST BUT NOT QUITE roster, pray that riley upgrades coach spo's late game decisions (or takes over himself, just not mid season), that lebron FINALLY WORKS ON DEVELOPING SOME SEMBLANCE of a post game, and that bosh learns to be more aggressive insid eof the paint. In addition, a good center acquisition wont hurt either, as much as i like joel anthony, his zero offensive production, even with put backs, is a strain on my heart.

Then i'll talk back having Udonis Haslem for a full season in full rotation, Mario Chalmers back in the starting lineup where he belongs, and i'll see where we fall short next year. If we fall again, or hell, even if we dont make the playoffs, you'll see me here once again spitting pure truths... About our shortcomings, our strengths, and about the ridiculously absurd attitude and expectations of people simply following a media craze and a mythical idea of the GLORY that comes with being "loyal" at a job that wont get you further in life, simply because everyone says you "should". I just hope that the magnifying glass on lbj's face is a little less powerful.



Oh one last thing. if we HAD won, EVERYONE AND THEIR MOMS would have said well DUH they won, they all joined up together and of course theyll be unstoppable. Its been made clear we can be stopped. Lets just see who has what it takes to do it again.
 

Kush

Active Member
Messages
1,401
:)

Forgot my smilie... just incase people think im getting offended or angry. Its just sports...
 

Love

New Member
Messages
311
If you have 3 prime superstars, you'd expect them to suck it up and play with each other wouldn't you? They were pathetic in 2004 at becoming a team playing in the olympics, and it was obviously a lesson for them. They learned to play with each other in 2008 perfectly though. I guess my standards are too high if I'm expecting these 3 guys to put their egos and shit on the side and play some team basketball. That's the difference between boston and miami. KG Allen and Pierce were matured, and they had all the experience they needed. I was pretty upset when the original big 3 came together, but you have to give it up to the boston front office for making such moves.
Yeah they bled it out. Lol they played their BEST basketball with their own teams, not winning. Once their teams seemed completely out of the question to win or even make the playoffs, management made moves. And they were never as cocky as the Heat seemed, even though I think KG is a dick. Great player, but an ass nonetheless.

I remember one of the biggest criticisms of Miami was that Lebron/Wade wouldn't be able to take the back seat. Seemed like Lebron took the back seat in the finals and it didn't work out.

I'd like to see how the heat pull themselves together after this season. They obviously can't sign big free agents. They just have to deal with MLE's and what not which won't be too impactful on their roster. But you can't make excuses about who wasn't fitting in the roster, who was still recovering from injury and what not. I mean caron butler didn't even play, and he was an intricate part of the Mavs offense before he went out.

Yeah, Miami will probably be back stronger than they were this season, but so will the rest of the east. New York will start getting their act together and look to add another role player/all star, Chicago will probably add a 2 guard to replace Bogans and Rose will only get better. Orlando will make big moves to attempt to satisfy Dwight Howard. And if there is a lockout, the shortened season might be a good thing for the aging Celtics.

At the end of the day, the heat are losers just like every other team other than the Mavericks. Making it to the finals doesn't guarantee making it again the next year.
 

HarmanSingh

New Member
Messages
531
Kush said:
Love said:
Kush, how could you not expect a run to the finals if you've got 3 prime superstars?
Boston gathered 3 POST PRIME superstars, and made it to the finals AND WON. The Lakers added Pau and made it to the finals in 08. The Lakers added Malone and Payton in 04 and made it to the finals and lost.

2004 and 2008 were considered failures by almost everybody. Boston turned it around in 1 season after decades of failure. Bosh+Lebron+Wade in 2011 > Allen+Pierce+KG in 2008. The Celts just got their shit together, whereas the heat were partying in south beach.
Lebron made it to the finals in 2005, beating the defending champs, only to lose in the finals. But he could blame his team mates for not performing back then. Now he didn't perform in the finals in 2011. And he's responsible for a BIG chunk of the loss.

Kush, there really isn't a great dynamic 2 guard in the league outside of Wade and Kobe. Brandon Roy could have given Wade a run for his money if he didn't go down. I'm curious to see what wade does as he ages. He's undersized for the 2 guard position, so it'll be interesting.
The pieces and roles of KG Pierce and Ray allen fit in together PERFECTLY! Their ability to seemlessly form a team was tremendous, the likes of which we have NEVER SEEN in the league.

WE, on the other hand, took 2 guys strongest at making plays with the ball in their hand, used to controling the tempo and rhythm of their entire offense, and an undersized (by weight) power forward/center who was used to being the offensive threat, and trie dto put them together into a "TEAM". TALENT wise? yes we blow them out of the water... but you realize there wasnt ONCE a question of "oh HOW will the celtics players fit together"... IT WAS OBVIOUS! They all played SUCH different, SUCH complimentary roles. Do you see that with the heat? HELL NO, not till half way through the season! In addition, the variability in options that the celtics had DUE to the fact that they had arguably the second most aggressive powerforward of this last 2 decades (gonna give big Duncan the number one spot, even though hes more centerish), who had a TERRIFYING post game and bring it hard attitude, an under-athletic but overtly talented versatile scorer in paul pierce, and the second greatest 3 point shooter the game has EVER SEEN!

Hm... you think it MIGHT work if we let paul pierce run alot of the offense, let KG take feeds for hte post game and play his amazing defense, and run screens for Ray allen who shoots LIGHTS OUT with an inch of space? haha their "BIG THREE" is IMPOSSIBLE to compare to ours. BTW, how many people gave them shit, 3 allstars who never won shit till they came together? i dont remember that being the talk of the town, i remember it being, damn these boys have bled out, its LUCKY theyre going to have each other to make it.

Fast Forward to 2010. I'm not even gonna list the talents and abilities of the heat, but its safe to say theres MUCH LESS CLEAR LINES on who excels and who defines WHAT ASPECTS OF THE GAME. WE ARE AN INCOMPLETE TEAM! this wasnt even QUESTIONED from the get go. but an incomplete team beat the supposedly more lethal and deeper chicago bulls in 5! The beat the defending championship lakers TWICE! and they let SLIP, a championship in their first year of establishment.

EXPECT a run to the finals? Tell me, how many people had Boston beating us round 2? how many people had us beating CHICAGO!? yeah, finals run expected, my ass. EVEN WHEN WE GOT THERE, I'll go so far as to say we got in our own way JUST AS MUCh as the MAVS got in our way. And they, playing tremendous basketball, exploited it. Ill go even further. NO TEAM COMING OUT OF THE WEST WOULD HAVE STOOD A CHANCE BEAT US except for the spurs... or possibly memphis (mostly due to their inside size advantage, it would have been horrendous)... you know why? because the spurs were the most complete team in the west, and the grizzlies had a size mismatch. Forget LA, who i dont think would have made it past okc, even if they did beat the mavs.

So once again, i'll take my ALMOST BUT NOT QUITE roster, pray that riley upgrades coach spo's late game decisions (or takes over himself, just not mid season), that lebron FINALLY WORKS ON DEVELOPING SOME SEMBLANCE of a post game, and that bosh learns to be more aggressive insid eof the paint. In addition, a good center acquisition wont hurt either, as much as i like joel anthony, his zero offensive production, even with put backs, is a strain on my heart.

Then i'll talk back having Udonis Haslem for a full season in full rotation, Mario Chalmers back in the starting lineup where he belongs, and i'll see where we fall short next year. If we fall again, or hell, even if we dont make the playoffs, you'll see me here once again spitting pure truths... About our shortcomings, our strengths, and about the ridiculously absurd attitude and expectations of people simply following a media craze and a mythical idea of the GLORY that comes with being "loyal" at a job that wont get you further in life, simply because everyone says you "should". I just hope that the magnifying glass on lbj's face is a little less powerful.



Oh one last thing. if we HAD won, EVERYONE AND THEIR MOMS would have said well DUH they won, they all joined up together and of course theyll be unstoppable. Its been made clear we can be stopped. Lets just see who has what it takes to do it again.
You beat a Celtics team on their last leg who was not really a clear favorite going into the playoffs. Pierce was injured, they traded Perkins, their bench was decimated. You beat a Chicago team that was just as if not more incomplete than the Heat. They were overhauled this summer (added Boozer, Korver, Brewer, Asik, Watson) and dealt with injuries all season into the playoffs. They also exceeded ALL expectations and shocked everyone by being the number one seed. They were just about as shaky as you can get as a #1 seed considering they had no experience playing together/their leader and best player has never been so deep in the playoffs.

Like I said before, the idea that this team is just bound to be a dynasty is wishful thinking. There are a lot of teams (like Stockton/Malone's Jazz) who could never get over the hump even though they had immense talent and expectations. It is not as if the Heat will improve and everyone will get worse. The Bulls are a SG away from winning that series against the Heat. The Lakers, Thunder, Knicks, any number of teams are just 1 or 2 players away from being a championship caliber team also.

The problems you described will continue to be problems for the Heat. They have 2 guys with very similar games who will have a lot of trouble changing how they play. Lebron has not improved his jumper a whole lot since he has been in the league (8 years now). He hasn't improved his post game. He hasn't become better in big moments, he has in fact gotten worse. What do you guys do next year? Expect Wade or Lebron to make a 180 and flip how they play? Its not easy for MVPs to just change who they are.

People hate the Heat because they put ridiculous expectations on themselves and didn't stack up. Because Lebron quit on his team last season. Because he is arrogant and cocky. Because Bosh is their lap dog. Because Lebron makes comments about fans like he did last night. Because he has never won but declares himself the King. Because he presents himself as caring more about his image than his game. There is a reason his own best friends from the Cavs are hating on him (Mo Williams)...he is not a likable guy.
 

Kush

Active Member
Messages
1,401
nor will EVERYONE else get better and the heat stay stagnant. Lol, we're not even a full season in, and thats my point. you think we PEAKED in less than a year? doubtful. Again, i'm not saying we're gonna win ridiculous, i'm just saying accomplishments and impressive play for the majority of the season is undermined by HATE. Some of the greatest athletes of all time were bitter to take down. See Muhammed Ali. Everyone needs to grow up a bit.

People hate the heat because they enjoy hating. The same way so many people hate on the lakers, the same way so many people hate on the yankees... the same way so many people hate on Floyd Mayweather. Ridiculous expectations? We went 6 games in the finals... so how close did we come to meeting those "ridiculous" expectations, hm? Did we meet "pretty damn high expectations" but fall just short of the ridiculous? Lol What defines "not Stacking up"... if its championship or bust then sure, we didnt stack up. If its being a powerhouse in the NBA, Check. If its being a team thats going to contend for the next 2-3 years minimum, Check. If its creating an energy, excitement, and interest int he NBA that hasnt been seen for over a decade, Check. And if its simply building the framework for a potential future explosion that may or may not come, then I'll take that as a check too, because THIS, in my opinon, is setting new bars for baskeball...

We made a title run in the VERY INCOMPLETE AND CLASHING STATE we were in... Given an offseason and a bit of thought adjustment, we dont even have to make roster changes to be a better team, much more efficient on offense this year. And thats to assume we wouldnt even make any changes beyond developing stronger skill sets in our players to create diversity on the court.

Lol... you know something thats more disappointing that getting to the finals and not winning? Not even getting to the finals. Yeah, i call that an upgrade for wade, bosh, AND lebron.
 
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