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Pagg Malfunction Issue at Bhangra Blowout 2015 [From Shoutbox]

Basim

♥ BTF ♥
Staff member
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1,459
Even though this is a pain to do, I'm posting the relevant posts from the shoutbox in chronological order for those that missed the initial posts/wanted to read them. Please continue this discussion here :)

In the future, let's try to discuss such topics on the forum so that others who don't see the initial posts can also participate.

SGupta7 [19|Apr 04:11 AM]: Kb, they had a pagh issue. Can't say for sure but I think it took them out of the running because it was pretty distracting from the rest of the set

nmistry2 [19|Apr 12:00 PM]: DRP had a guys paghs fall off like everyone knows, they didn't do anything disrespectful but they took a while to take it off stage and it distracted all their dancers

PunjabPolice [19|Apr 01:18 PM]: paghan should never come off

SGupta7 [20|Apr 05:00 PM]: @nmistry what?? the pagh fell off, was left on stage for two minutes and got stepped on. all of this was obviously accidental, but to say that it wasn't disrespectful is just inaccurate. It's unfortunate what happened, especially because i think drp would have placed had the pagh not fallen and been such a distraction during the performance.

Jackie [20|Apr 05:47 PM]: @SGupta7 for further clarification: the pagh fell off during the beginning of our daang segment and remained on the stage for the remainder of it (1 minute). The reason it was difficult to pick it up respectively and place it off stage during that time was because every dancer on stage had a prop in his or her hand. The window for opportunity was also fairly hard because our daang song is very formationally based, we apologize if anyone was offended by efforts.

Jackie [20|Apr 05:48 PM]: *our efforts.

mithu [20|Apr 06:08 PM]: @jackie not really a valid excuse. Paghs > props or w/e is going on. Not sure why this isnt drilled into every dancer (guy or girl).

puttsardar98 [20|Apr 07:20 PM]: Not to beat on this topic too much. In terms of the DRP pugh situation, I'd just like to say that the respect for the pugh should always be prioritized over the set. IMO, a dancer should have picked the pugh up, stop dancing if necessary, and move it to the side. For the future, I'd suggest teams make this a "rule" of sorts before getting on stage. Fortunately pughs don't fall off so often, but teams need to be made aware of the significance a pugh carries before wearing one and going on stage.

SGupta7 [20|Apr 08:20 PM]: @Jackie, I totally understand that, but to me it seemed like there were opportunities. For example, the pagh was clearly quite loose throughout the first minute or two of the set and as an audience member I was immediately nervous because I could see the pagh rising on your dancers forehead. When it fell, it wasn't a surprise. Given that, I think there was a 15-20 second period where your dancer was very close to sidestage and could have danced off, removed the pagh, and come back onto stage. I understand that he tried to salvage the situation, but I think in the end it cost you a placing. I myself have had a pagh come loose during a performance and have had to dance off stage to avoid it falling off.

SGupta7 [20|Apr 08:23 PM]: I realize it's super unfortunate that it happened, but as mentioned above, pagh > everything. It's not about bhangra at that point, but about respect for sikhism. I myself am Hindu Punjabi, so I can't say that I am the best source, but that's the conclusion i've drawn from talking to multiple Sikh Punjabis and learning how they feel about their paghan, in general. A bhangra pagh should be no different. Didn't mean to put anyone on the spot, but I think that the topic is worth further discussion, considering this has happened numerous times at numerous competitions.

KarnSingh [20|Apr 11:24 PM]: fawk it shit happens, no harm done to anyone. we can all talk about all the dispect to the pagh and all that all we want, we do plenty of things to disrespect more than just a pagh on a daily basis. DRP can handle this situation on their own, I'm sure they dont need to hear from anyone. Respect to them for coming all the way from cali to, they worked enough and long to preserve respect for the culture, tradition, etc ... one mishap that literally lasted 1 minute during their entire season isnt shit ... the hours and months of practice they put in is all respect to the culture that isnt being credited

KarnSingh [20|Apr 11:25 PM]: long enough*

KarnSingh [20|Apr 11:33 PM]: on a side note, the pagh isn't all about just wearing something on your head becasue of religion or culture or tradition... it has a lot to do with carrying the honor and valor a pagh was worn in the name of justice and righteousness throughout history, and wearing a pagh is about holding those sacrifices on your head above all else

KarnSingh [20|Apr 11:33 PM]: worn with*

puttsardar98 [20|Apr 11:54 PM]: @KarnSingh wasn't trying to discredit all that they

puttsardar98 [20|Apr 11:55 PM]: all that they've done. This is just a good opportunity to remind dancers how to handle the situation better next time.

hardeep_singh [21|Apr 12:28 AM]: it's tough to decide exactly how to react to a moment like that on stage. especially when going to pick up a pagg could throw off other dancers. you also cant really do anything to stop a pagg from coming off once it starts slipping and until it actually comes off you just have to keep dancing and hoping that itll stay on.

hardeep_singh [21|Apr 12:29 AM]: any sort of malfunction on stage is scary as fuck, first time i ever danced my chadra was slipping off the whole set

SGupta7 [21|Apr 12:41 AM]: @KarnSingh, I get what you're saying, but it's really hard to say "shit happens" or like someone else, "nothing disrespectful happened" when to many people, what happened on stage would be seen as a big deal. People are very touchy and protective of religion and traditions, etc. For you and many others, it may not be a big deal. But the opposite is also true. I say play it safe and do what you can to prevent this discussion from even happening.

SGupta7 [21|Apr 12:44 AM]: As far as the performance goes, I think any malfunction should be handled immediately regardless of how it impacts the set. Any good bhangra judge will see a pagh fall off, and assess based on recovery. I can say with almost 100% certainty that had that pagh been removed from stage as soon as it had fallen or right before, DRP would have been in the discussion for a placing. At the very least, it would've been significantly less distracting to the overall set.

The Honest Truth [21|Apr 01:43 AM]: how bout we all get a life

The Honest Truth [21|Apr 01:46 AM]: that is to all the people attacking drp

The Honest Truth [21|Apr 01:46 AM]: lets find something better to do with our time shall we?

SGupta7 [21|Apr 02:10 AM]: not attacking, but i think it's worth the discussion. maybe not for btf chat though.

singh123 [21|Apr 06:26 AM]: "pagh > everything" you can say that again

agoel21 [21|Apr 03:00 PM]: late but I completely agree with Shawn
 

DamanSingh

Member
Messages
849
I totally agree with Shawn's posts.

If a pagh falls off, the team should prioritize getting it off stage immediately (and respectfully, of course).
 

hardeep_singh

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,464
sangeensingh said:
Pagh>Bhangra
pagg > bhangra> bhangra competition > fupa > ebola > stage markers > wooden saaps > gtv 4k video > bender rodriguez > when you find adrak in your daal after assuming that there wouldn't be adrak in your daal > girls doing bhangra > having to talk to sargam in real life > white people > when scar kills mufasa
 

hardeep_singh

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,464
The Honest Truth [21|Apr 01:46 AM]: lets find something better to do with our time shall we?
SGupta7 [21|Apr 02:10 AM]: not attacking, but i think it's worth the discussion. maybe not for btf chat though.
KarnSingh [21|Apr 02:29 AM]: we could do whatever da fuq we want dawg
singh123 [21|Apr 06:26 AM]: "pagh > everything" you can say that again
The Honest Truth [21|Apr 01:49 PM]: Karnsingh: its funny how steel city is the team that talks the most crap on btf and critisizes other teams and yet has the least trophies to back themselves up.
Sue Sylvester [21|Apr 02:57 PM]: @The Honest Truth: For someone who has yet to disclose their identity, their team affiliations, their credentials or their "number of trophies", that was quite the bold statement right there.
 

hardeep_singh

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,464
KarnSingh said:
hardeep_singh said:
sangeensingh said:
Pagh>Bhangra
pagg > bhangra> bhangra competition > fupa > ebola > stage markers > wooden saaps > gtv 4k video > bender rodriguez > when you find adrak in your daal after assuming that there wouldn't be adrak in your daal

you dont have enough trophies to make that claim bro... why dont you go get a job? or a life?
Homestar Runner - A Jorb Well Done
 

Sue Sylvester

kinnell
Messages
467
hardeep_singh said:
The Honest Truth [21|Apr 01:46 AM]: lets find something better to do with our time shall we?
SGupta7 [21|Apr 02:10 AM]: not attacking, but i think it's worth the discussion. maybe not for btf chat though.
KarnSingh [21|Apr 02:29 AM]: we could do whatever da fuq we want dawg
singh123 [21|Apr 06:26 AM]: "pagh > everything" you can say that again
The Honest Truth [21|Apr 01:49 PM]: Karnsingh: its funny how steel city is the team that talks the most crap on btf and critisizes other teams and yet has the least trophies to back themselves up.
Sue Sylvester [21|Apr 02:57 PM]: @The Honest Truth: For someone who has yet to disclose their identity, their team affiliations, their credentials or their "number of trophies", that was quite the bold statement right there.

 

hardeep_singh

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,464
Sue Sylvester said:
hardeep_singh said:
The Honest Truth [21|Apr 01:46 AM]: lets find something better to do with our time shall we?
SGupta7 [21|Apr 02:10 AM]: not attacking, but i think it's worth the discussion. maybe not for btf chat though.
KarnSingh [21|Apr 02:29 AM]: we could do whatever da fuq we want dawg
singh123 [21|Apr 06:26 AM]: "pagh > everything" you can say that again
The Honest Truth [21|Apr 01:49 PM]: Karnsingh: its funny how steel city is the team that talks the most crap on btf and critisizes other teams and yet has the least trophies to back themselves up.
Sue Sylvester [21|Apr 02:57 PM]: @The Honest Truth: For someone who has yet to disclose their identity, their team affiliations, their credentials or their "number of trophies", that was quite the bold statement right there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWSA0xubW7I
 

jasraj93

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,122
Are you guys seriously justifying that there's no problem with a pagh falling off and being left on the floor?
 

hardeep_singh

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,464
jasraj93 said:
Are you guys seriously justifying that there's no problem with a pagh falling off and being left on the floor?
nope, it's stupid to leave a pagg on the floor. one of the paggs i tied at BBC fell off and the dancer immediately took it and put it off stage respectfully. thats the proper way to handle it.
pagg tiers(myself included) should be fully capable of tying paggs that won't fall off on stage.
dancers should know not to fuck with paggs after theyve been tied and should speak up if a pagg feels loose before a performance.
it's just funny how incidents like this get so much attention and create so much btf activity, where the fuck was all this pagg love when people were giving me shit for bashing 5abi kings for using a dastaar in his lameass ed hardy ripoff logo.
http://bhangrateamsforum.com/discuss/off-topic/in-honor-of-420/
ya fuck you all
 

mithu

Active Member
Messages
793
jasraj93 said:
Are you guys seriously justifying that there's no problem with a pagh falling off and being left on the floor?

It always seems that way. Everyone jumps on "shit happens on stage, they apologized, and lets just move on" train.
It's the captains as much as it is the dancers fault for the drilling into the minds of the dancer. Everyone should treat chunnis and paghs with the up most respect and take priority over dancing itself.


hardeep_singh said:
jasraj93 said:
Are you guys seriously justifying that there's no problem with a pagh falling off and being left on the floor?
nope, it's stupid to leave a pagg on the floor. one of the paggs i tied at BBC fell off and the dancer immediately took it and put it off stage respectfully. thats the proper way to handle it.
pagg tiers(myself included) should be fully capable of tying paggs that won't fall off on stage.
dancers should know not to fuck with paggs after theyve been tied and should speak up if a pagg feels loose before a performance.
it's just funny how incidents like this get so much attention and create so much btf activity, where the fuck was all this pagg love when people were giving me shit for bashing 5abi kings for using a dastaar in his lameass ed hardy ripoff logo.
http://bhangrateamsforum.com/discuss/off-topic/in-honor-of-420/
ya fuck you all

Here's your answer to why it happens:
 

RsKderpu

Member
Messages
264
A pagh falling off or being disrespected in an unintentional manner has happened before, and WILL happen again, whether its tomorrow or two years from now.


This does not mean you bash the team for its mistakes.


The best way to handle/resolve this is for the team (or dancer whose pagh fell off) to formally apologize to the community.


hardeep_singh said:
sangeensingh said:
Pagh>Bhangra
pagg > bhangra> bhangra competition > fupa > ebola > stage markers > wooden saaps > gtv 4k video > bender rodriguez > when you find adrak in your daal after assuming that there wouldn't be adrak in your daal > girls doing bhangra > having to talk to sargam in real life > white people > when scar kills mufasa

Hardeep, many women are better dancers than the men in the current circuit. I'm not sure why you put them so low on that list, or even needed to specifically put "girls doing bhangra" on that list. I'm sure 90% of the women in the circuit are better than you lol.
 

mrchicity

Active Member
Messages
329
RsKderpu said:
hardeep_singh said:
pagg > bhangra> bhangra competition > fupa > ebola > stage markers > wooden saaps > gtv 4k video > bender rodriguez > when you find adrak in your daal after assuming that there wouldn't be adrak in your daal > girls doing bhangra > having to talk to sargam in real life > white people > when scar kills mufasa
Hardeep, many women are better dancers than the men in the current circuit. I'm not sure why you put them so low on that list, or even needed to specifically put "girls doing bhangra" on that list. I'm sure 90% of the women in the circuit are better than you lol.
He's joking.
 

RsKderpu

Member
Messages
264
mrchicity said:
RsKderpu said:
hardeep_singh said:
pagg > bhangra> bhangra competition > fupa > ebola > stage markers > wooden saaps > gtv 4k video > bender rodriguez > when you find adrak in your daal after assuming that there wouldn't be adrak in your daal > girls doing bhangra > having to talk to sargam in real life > white people > when scar kills mufasa
Hardeep, many women are better dancers than the men in the current circuit. I'm not sure why you put them so low on that list, or even needed to specifically put "girls doing bhangra" on that list. I'm sure 90% of the women in the circuit are better than you lol.
He's joking.

Yes I know, thank you John Madden. It's still disrespectful.
 

Yankee Saini

ਅਣਖ ਨਾਲ ਜੇ ਜਿਊਣਾ ਤਾਂ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਮੇਹਰ ਜ਼ਰੂਰੀ ਏ ll
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714
bai, sidhi jehi gall aa . . . jeh pagg lehke digg payi, tan uddon e pagg nu chukk layo!

Quit making excuses like oh saadiyan formations bahut si, saare bahut tej tej bhajj rahe si, etc. etc. . . Come on fellas, that's complete nonsense.

Majority of Bhangra peeps would come back to pick up their daang/saap/kanto if that had fallen off on stage during your performance.

Oh wait . . . now don't tell me, you guys will continue dancing even if props were left in middle of the stage? I'd love see that.

Can't really bash no one cos kise di vi pagg leh sakdi aa. Just make sure who ever is tying em, is not half-assing, take your time. N' yes, once paggs are tied, dancers need to stop bumping into random things and especially quit trying to fix it every other minute. Not cool, not at all.

Like I said again, jeh pagg lehke digg payi, pick it up right away! Do not run over like it don't mean a thing. If you think it's not that important then why tie it in first place? I'm sure you can still do Bhangra without having to wear one, start a new trend eh?

Oh and, please try to take paggs seriously, basically saying "learn how to tie a nice one, I'm sure you can if you put your mind into it. Bhangra vi sikheya e aa, right?"

@sgupta, well said!
 

hardeep_singh

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,464
RsKderpu said:
mrchicity said:
RsKderpu said:
hardeep_singh said:
pagg > bhangra> bhangra competition > fupa > ebola > stage markers > wooden saaps > gtv 4k video > bender rodriguez > when you find adrak in your daal after assuming that there wouldn't be adrak in your daal > girls doing bhangra > having to talk to sargam in real life > white people > when scar kills mufasa
Hardeep, many women are better dancers than the men in the current circuit. I'm not sure why you put them so low on that list, or even needed to specifically put "girls doing bhangra" on that list. I'm sure 90% of the women in the circuit are better than you lol.
He's joking.

Yes I know, thank you John Madden. It's still disrespectful.
i find your lack of humor disrespectful, you're worse than white people
 

Ashveer

New Member
Messages
492
mithu said:
Everyone should treat chunnis...with the up most respect and take priority over dancing itself.

I understand the rationale that people have around paghs, but what is it about the chunni that deserves respect?
 

hsdeol

Active Member
Messages
485
hardeep_singh said:
dancers should know not to fuck with paggs after theyve been tied and should speak up if a pagg feels loose before a performance.
^couldn't agree with this more. Gents- STOP MESSING WITH EM!


If a pagh falls off during a performance, it should be handled immediately and properly. Respect for paghs and the standard protocol for handling these situations have been ingrained in the circuit for quite a while. I'm not gonna make some huge generalization on DRP; it's on the captain and that particular dancer for the way things went down on stage.

Unrelated to DRP:
My biggest pagh tiff on the circuit is the fact that teams come to comps without a tier. Vardiyaan and presentation are on rubrics. Why are captains choosing to ignore the fact that they need paghs on at a comp but don't have a tier on the team? Be prepared folks and take the time to learn how to tie. Honestly, learning how to tie gave me a deep appreciation for the intricacies of vardiyaan and showed how well a team knew their craft. Dress is part of the art of bhangra and it shouldn't be overshadowed when preparing for a show.

If you need help learning, i'm sure some of us can pump out more instructional videos.
 

Prabhzy

Active Member
Messages
206
I think there needs to be more than just the 2 videos out at the moment which have been used for years.


Maybe the top class tiers in the circuit now can release individual videos so people can compare all of them and see what style they prefer learning ( and if location wise that tier is close to them they can actually make the effort to meet them in person to learn?)


On a side note Paghan shouldnt fall off in the first place. Need to stress the point that whoever is tying your pagh should be really really good at it and has a track record.


Also other factors that risk falling off are weird formations or stunts and gimmicks.. like i personally would have a clean set with my pagh still on rather than do complex stuff and have it fall off my head. Just my opinion guys
 

SGupta7

Member
Messages
109
Prabhzy said:
I think there needs to be more than just the 2 videos out at the moment which have been used for years.


Maybe the top class tiers in the circuit now can release individual videos so people can compare all of them and see what style they prefer learning ( and if location wise that tier is close to them they can actually make the effort to meet them in person to learn?)

I think the videos online now are pretty sufficient. After all, the way you tie doesn't really change. May vary from person to person (and it probably should as you figure out what's comfortable and what works for you), but I definitely found the current videos out there to be really helpful! That being said, anyone reading this is more than welcome to PM me and ask questions. I'm sure Hardeep and Harman, as well as other tiers, feel the same way! The more people who can tie, the less stress the few of us incur.
 
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