qualifications for judging?

[judes]

Great discussion in my honest opinion. But calling out one person on the basis of a placing is not right. One particular person on this forum is just calling out Amrita because she is salty that her team didn't win or placed second. Amrita in my opinion is more than well qualified for judging based on her character, and her response to this post it's clear she is the real deal. I say instead of bashing one person why don't you all go clean up your formations and bring an actual set that's not boring someone to death at a comp. It's not Amrita's fault you took the set lightly thinking it was gonna place first. Rmr its not always automatic at these lower level comps. Anyways no harsh feelings to anyone. Just my particular opinion on this matter.

Hey thanks for your honesty! I know names aren't mentioned, but it sounds like a reference to the recent Blitz competition and Alamo placing 2nd- just putting it out here to not be hazy! Not debating anything about judges here; the judges were selected by the committee and judged per their interpretation and that's what judges do. Regarding the comment on Alamo, I've danced with Alamo three years back at MCB and Clutch as well as on DDR in the past, and I understand how Alamo can come across being on a high-horse. But honestly, the team doesn't go to Blitz to get an "easy win"; historically, Blitz was run amazingly and that's why we've always loved to go to this Texas comp as a Texas team.
Just this year, there was a huge discrepancy in how it was run. Sure, Blitz may not be at the same "tier" as larger comps, but we didn't take this comp any less seriously bc we "expected" to win. Ampal, Deshmesh, the whole team truly put in the time and effort for this, and it's a bit unfair to drag down the hard work any team's put into preparing for a competition. No matter the comp, be it MCB level or Burgh level or "lower level" (? as you describe it?), Alamo puts in work. I've seen them take exhibition acts, the annual city-wide Diwali performance, even our friends' wedding performances just as seriously! Appreciate you voicing thoughts that many others may be having, and I really never post things, but just wanted to share a bit of what I've seen and what I saw.

 

[Kaur]

" feel like I’ve been reading the same thread since 2007!

Judging is pathetic. Comps are cheap. They don’t get the best possible judges. I feel for teams but this has been said in the past- BOYCOTT COMPS COLLECTIVEY UNTIL THEY GET THEIR SHIT RIGHT"

Amen!.. and damn have we really been here for that long? lol

 

[Lally]

Bhangra teams deserve a lot more respect in the competitive circuit. There is no show, pre launch or after party without these teams. That being said, you can only understand and respect a Bhangra team if you've actually done Bhangra yourself. If you've never competed before, you don't know the standard of Bhangra thats required at competitions and theres no way in hell that you'd know the standard of judges you'll need to evaluate these elite teams. Gotta keep in mind that these teams have been practicing for 3-4 months just to get 8-10 minutes on stage at your event. Its the committees responsibility to ensure fair judging. To make sure that the judges are on the same page as the committee so when it comes down to the judges/coaches meeting, your judges are able to explain their scores to each team.

There was an incident at BSM last month where an "OG" in the circuit came in SHORTS to judge a Bhangra competition. He said that he had gone skiing in the morning so he came straight to the show... LOL. Then he drank alcohol DURING the show, apparently after all the teams had performed BUT still before the placings and the judges/coaches meeting. To top it off, this judge wasn't able to explain his scoresheet or provide the teams with any feedback. When he was called out by the teams, his response was that the teams are being salty because they didn't place. The judge criticized a kato segment for a team that didn't have a kato segment in their routine!

Like I said earlier.... Bhangra teams deserve much more respect than that! I feel like people want to judge competitions for a free trip. While the competing teams are spending months on practices and over $10,000 on flights and hotels just to get scored by someone that couldn't care less of what the outcome is.

 

[Lally]

" feel like I’ve been reading the same thread since 2007!

Judging is pathetic. Comps are cheap. They don’t get the best possible judges. I feel for teams but this has been said in the past- BOYCOTT COMPS COLLECTIVEY UNTIL THEY GET THEIR SHIT RIGHT"

Amen!.. and damn have we really been here for that long? lol

I would highly suggest to BOYCOTT BSM. Ive posted complaints about them back in 2015 regarding committee members getting drunk and leaving SIAC at the venue so they could go to the afterparty. Also, being too drunk to drop SIAC off at the airport.. lol. One year there was a shooting at the afterparty. This year two of the three judges were drunk and BSM didn't think it was necessary to address the issue until VanCity stood up and brought light to this situation. I'm surprised this comps still running... seems like they don't learn from their mistakes. And based off the committees reply. They simply don't care, didn't bother to accept their mistake and no apology. Always coming up with excuses which is hella unprofessional.

This is my personal opinion on BSM. Im sure there are teams in the circuit that have had a great time at this comp but you gotta think about the overall reviews of these comps cuz disrespect to one team is disrespect to every bhangra team...just a matter of time before that disrespect is directed towards your team in the future if you allow these things to happen over and over again.

 

[lakha23]

historically, Blitz was run amazingly and that's why we've always loved to go to this Texas comp as a Texas team.
Just this year, there was a huge discrepancy in how it was run. Sure, Blitz may not be at the same "tier" as larger comps, but we didn't take this comp any less seriously bc we "expected" to win.

I know this isn't a comp review but +1 to this. I was playing dhol at this comp and honestly the directors were not much of a help at all. There were no stage monitors for either the performers or the dholis. Which itself was a big problem cause it was so hard listening to the music. We asked the directors multiple times but they responded like this "Are y'all going to pay for it? " Running a bhangra comp is hard I just found that messed up. Just my two cents on Blitz.

 

[scaplash]

Most of what needs to be said has already been said, as someone who is interested in judging, and has had dancing experience, it can be a frustrating paradox that you can't judge even small competitions without having judged before as @priyanka.ram1997 mentioned-which makes it hard to build up judging experience. And while I think whole circuit reform isn't really a realistic goal and UBJ got shot down, I wonder if there could be a process in which people willing to judge have their dance experience accredited. And maybe that would be a google form where you put in who you danced for and what teams you captained and then all it would really take is a simple BTF search/youtube search +/- inboxing some people on those teams to verify the experience aspect. Ideally it could be a tab on BTF the same way the competition calendar is.

 

[UmerQureshi96]

I wonder if there could be a process in which people willing to judge have their dance experience accredited. And maybe that would be a google form where you put in who you danced for and what teams you captained and then all it would really take is a simple BTF search/youtube search +/- inboxing some people on those teams to verify the experience aspect.

What if there was a judges tab on BTF or a pinned post on the main bhangra discussion page people could post a google doc link to their bhangra resume publically? From then on if a comp asks for a resume they should all just be forwarded to that pinned post with all the resumes? That way if someone puts some shady shit on their resume everyone can call it out?

 

[Raghavtrip]

What if there was a judges tab on BTF or a pinned post on the main bhangra discussion page people could post a google doc link to their bhangra resume publically? From then on if a comp asks for a resume they should all just be forwarded to that pinned post with all the resumes? That way if someone puts some shady shit on their resume everyone can call it out?

I think these are both awesome ideas, would also help competitions have a shortlist of judges they can reach out to if they aren't taking applications and would help teams better understand the paradigms of judges before attending competitions. Getting back to posting comp reviews regularly is also super important for this and some of the other issues coming up now--at judges meetings at a bunch of smaller competitions we went to, first-time judges would often ask us afterwards to discuss the quality of their feedback in our BTF comp reviews. This would ideally help them get their foot in the door to judge bigger competitions and of course provide comps with stuff to improve on.

If teams again started posting comp reviews including feedback/judging quality, it would help give newer judges some specific quotes/references to boost them up. I started judging last year and it was incredibly difficult at first because of the annoying paradox @scaplash mentioned--encouraging teams to post their experiences with judging alongside their comp reviews could really help quell this problem while also preventing judges with tons of experience from disregarding their role like what @Lally mentioned.

I think the only major problem with this is that teams might preferentially post good things about judges if still competing in order to prevent any backlash like we were talking about in the comp reviews thread, not sure how to deal with that part

 

[UmerQureshi96]

......so basically everything everyone is suggesting is what UBJ did (publically posted resumes, scoresheets were sent to teams, judges feedback was requested and sent to judges, etc) but everyone got mad because no one took the time to read what they were doing and just assumed they were fuckin up ¯\(ツ)/¯

This is why we can't have nice things

 

[scaplash]

......so basically everything everyone is suggesting is what UBJ did (publically posted resumes, scoresheets were sent to teams, judges feedback was requested and sent to judges, etc) but everyone got mad because no one took the time to read what they were doing and just assumed they were fuckin up ¯\(ツ)/¯

This is why we can't have nice things

I blame @hardeep_singh

 

[sahab]

......so basically everything everyone is suggesting is what UBJ did (publically posted resumes, scoresheets were sent to teams, judges feedback was requested and sent to judges, etc) but everyone got mad because no one took the time to read what they were doing and just assumed they were fuckin up ¯\(ツ)/¯

This is why we can't have nice things

Facts

 

[hardeep_singh]

I blame @hardeep_singh

you're giving me too much credit, only reason i post on btf is to practice my creative writing. besides who would even be swayed by the perspective of a random idiot like me?

 

[smehta313]

A lot of good discussion about this topic and much needed as well. Comps need to do a better job of screening their judges as well as relaying judging/rubric information to teams timely. If you’re throwing a Bhangra competition, actually focus on the competition aspect. It’s not hard to reach out to a local captain or someone in the community for feedback on your rubric/judge selection. Like someone said above, I’d rather time and resources be spent on proper judges and a rubric than shot glasses lol.

Also, if you’re applying to be a judge.. why even lie or boost yourself to get that spot. It’s much more rewarding if you know you’ve earned it and the teams don’t have to question you. There’s a lot that goes into being able to score a team or provide actionable feedback, and all of the things mentioned above (leading a team, success, captaining, etc) play a huge role in being qualified.

As someone who judged for the first time recently, it’s been tough to get the opportunity even to be selected to judge at one, more “lowkey” comp so I was grateful for that and the kind words teams have given me on how I went about judging/feedback. It’s even tougher to be denied at multiple competitions thinking the judges there may be more “qualified”
Many times these qualifications are just quantity of comps rather than genuine knowledge.

Just my 2 cents

Edit:
Hopefully comp organizers are reading this thread as a lot of frustrated captains, judges and multiple teams have the same concerns.

@ericsingh3 should be judging more competitions.

 

[Queen City Bhangra]

As competition organizers, reading this discussion was very educational. The one question that the board of Queen City Bhangra has is this: how do we go about avoiding politics and bias when receiving highly qualified applicants but they are on a team that is on the line up? For example, last year we received a multiple applicants who were qualified but involved with teams on the line up at the moment or just a short period of time had passed. What would be the best way to handle this situation?

 

[smehta313]

As competition organizers, reading this discussion was very educational. The one question that the board of Queen City Bhangra has is this: how do we go about avoiding politics and bias when receiving highly qualified applicants but they are on a team that is on the line up? For example, last year we received a multiple applicants who were qualified but involved with teams on the line up at the moment or just a short period of time had passed. What would be the best way to handle this situation?

Strongly affiliated judges with competing teams is going to lead to a world of issues in any circumstance. It also delegitimizes the placing of the affiliated team in question with a "they only placed because so and so used to dance/captained them x amount of years ago." I'm sure there are situations where you cannot do anything about it and there are rare situations where this may even be okay, but a safe bet would be to avoid those specific judges.

My 2 cents

 

[MohitoK]

Strongly affiliated judges with competing teams is going to lead to a world of issues in any circumstance. It also delegitimizes the placing of the affiliated team in question with a "they only placed because so and so used to dance/captained them x amount of years ago." I'm sure there are situations where you cannot do anything about it and there are rare situations where this may even be okay, but a safe bet would be to avoid those specific judges.

My 2 cents

+1. Although I doubt any of those judges would purposely do anything to skew the placings, implicit bias is real no matter how "neutral" a judge tries to be with their old team/teammates.

 

[priyanka.ram1997]

As competition organizers, reading this discussion was very educational. The one question that the board of Queen City Bhangra has is this: how do we go about avoiding politics and bias when receiving highly qualified applicants but they are on a team that is on the line up? For example, last year we received a multiple applicants who were qualified but involved with teams on the line up at the moment or just a short period of time had passed. What would be the best way to handle this situation?

Something @naachdicle did this year that I really appreciated is that once they decided on their panel of judges, their judges liaison reached out to each of the team captains and made sure they were okay with all of the judges and more specifically the ones that had some kind of affiliation with a competing team. This gave each team a chance to speak up and express their concerns BEFORE the competition rather than after (when placings have already been decided and it becomes easy to point fingers for those that are upset with placings). Nowadays its basically impossible to have a qualified judge who also has zero affiliations with competing teams because the judges we usually respect and value gave rise to successful teams that still compete today. In my eyes, most of the time you can't have one without the other!

 

[UmerQureshi96]

@Queen City Bhangra I'd agree with what @smehta313 said. Like I should probably never judge FCB ever because it's been my main team for 4 years. Maybe like 5 years from now when I'm not super attached. But I've also danced on Furteelay and MOB for a comp or two and I personally think I can judge those teams. When it comes to collegiate teams, I think someone like Sahab Grover who was on MBT in 2016 can judge MBT now because it's been 3 years and most peeps he knew have left. Obviously it's very case by case so in all honesty if you're not sure ASK. y'all can hit up people across the country and get some opinions. I think my biggest issue with a lot of comps is that many don't take advantage of the wealth of dancers out there that can inform their opinions. Don't just ask the local bhangra team, ask reputable peeps in the circuit too and get multiple opinions.

 

[Howie Magz]

@Queen City Bhangra I'd agree with what @smehta313 said. Like I should probably never judge FCB ever because it's been my main team for 4 years. Maybe like 5 years from now when I'm not super attached. But I've also danced on Furteelay and MOB for a comp or two and I personally think I can judge those teams. When it comes to collegiate teams, I think someone like Sahab Grover who was on MBT in 2016 can judge MBT now because it's been 3 years and most peeps he knew have left. Obviously it's very case by case so in all honesty if you're not sure ASK. y'all can hit up people across the country and get some opinions. I think my biggest issue with a lot of comps is that many don't take advantage of the wealth of dancers out there that can inform their opinions. Don't just ask the local bhangra team, ask reputable peeps in the circuit too and get multiple opinions.

I hundred and ten percent agree with this sentiment.

 

[srikarran]

@Queen City Bhangra I'd agree with what @smehta313 said. Like I should probably never judge FCB ever because it's been my main team for 4 years. Maybe like 5 years from now when I'm not super attached. But I've also danced on Furteelay and MOB for a comp or two and I personally think I can judge those teams. When it comes to collegiate teams, I think someone like Sahab Grover who was on MBT in 2016 can judge MBT now because it's been 3 years and most peeps he knew have left. Obviously it's very case by case so in all honesty if you're not sure ASK. y'all can hit up people across the country and get some opinions. I think my biggest issue with a lot of comps is that many don't take advantage of the wealth of dancers out there that can inform their opinions. Don't just ask the local bhangra team, ask reputable peeps in the circuit too and get multiple opinions.

Comps need to use BTF for its resources instead of just to promote their application