REIGN OF BHANGRA 2017 JUDGING REVIEW

[JNijjar]

I think that the whole point of this post was to simply raise awareness that a large collective of participants at a competition were simply displeased with not only the results, but the overall vibe as well. If we felt like something was off, we're going to talk about it. To everyone saying teams are salty or sad, I think I can speak for the majority of the IDENTIFIABLE people within this thread that some have a decade's experience dancing at the competitive level, myself included. So believe me when I say I know what loss is like, and that my team knows what loss is like. I have said it before and i say it again, no I don't think VanCity was #1, ABC SFBC Shan-e and Norcal we're all amazing, its just boggling that Royal Folk placed over them that's all. We didn't think that was fair, and again we're going to talk about it .

Moving forward, if we can use this to possibly generate some ideas regarding how we can collectively insure qualified, and fair judgement at every competition, I think it's safe to say that we are keeping everyone's best interest at heart. I saw countless dancers this past weekend stuck within an awkward age where they want to speak up, but are incapable of doing so out of fear, or some other reason. Looking at them reminded me of how I felt at competitions only 4-5 years ago, dancers from almost every team present at the competition. Yes I and everyone else felt as though a lot of them had been wronged, so if you're choked up about us speaking up go swallow a khunda because quite frankly I don't really care. It's all about raising awareness honey and I think that's exactly what everyone is going to do.

Finally, I think that UBJ is a cool idea, who knows how it will pan out but it's an idea nonetheless. I also commend the idea for having an audience poll, not exactly sureif it will work but i definitely appreciate the enthusiasm! This is exactly the type of positive direction we need.

Cheers.

 

[Ranvir]

My


My name is Jagjeet Singh Jassar. I studied commerce at KPU and danced for SDNTG for 14 years. Doesnt matter what my credentials are, im allowed to voice my opinion. I don't hear any of you guys complaining or fighting for rejudments of other competitions, what makes this one so special? The fact that your team lost? Boo hoo bud. I don't think writing paragraph IG and FB captions is gunna change the world.

With love-
JAG PAAJI

Voice your opinion that's what this is all about but don't make it personal if we are trying to make a positive change. Not once did I ask for a re-judgement as a matter fact on behalf of ABC I advised the committee against this sort of thing. Watching videos and re-judging will never be the same as the emotion and energy of watching it live.

It is not about changing the results from this competition. Winning first isn't everything. It's about "judges" providing proper feedback to teams that spend months preparing. We must also be able to identify affliations between judges and teams prior to competitions not after the fact.

It was a local competition for us we didn't lose much but how about the boys from Calgary and California that spend a shit ton on flights and hotel. I saw a lot if newer teams that stepped up and brought it on this night. They should not have to deal with the same issues that we have been talking about for a decade.

Let's step back for a second and take a look at the bigger picture.

 

[hsdeol]

I'm sure if you apply to enough comps, one of em will accept you, lol. I would suggest start playing chimta cuz alot of chimtay players judge competitions nowadays.

lolllll

 

[BhangraSUCKS]

When are the chimta tryouts ubj??

 

[amancheema]

This was the first official "BTF approved" judging competition and was a complete debacle.*

Shocker

 

[Basim]

I hate to butt in to all the great commentary, ideas, and reactions that people old & new to BTF have about this competition (and the circuit as a whole)... this topic has had some great humor and shocking things mentioned.. but just to clarify two things...

This was the first official "BTF approved" judging competition and was a complete debacle.

BhangraTeamsForum (BTF) has nothing to do with any particular competition(s), the act of judging, or any particular team(s). It's simply a medium for people to voice their opinions, share information about bhangra dancing in general, bhangra teams to share information, a central place for competitions to disperse information, for people from all walks of life to speak about Punjab/Punjabi culture, share music/mixes, have random off-topic discussions, etc etc.

I am perfectly sure what you meant to write was "UBJ approved" (actually instead of "approved" - maybe "registered"/"certified" is a better word since that's what the UBJ committee does when you agree to the standards they have set for competitions). I just want to make sure there was no confusion on that.

Choosing to stay anonymous is my right and I plan to keep it that way.

Welcome to BTF @ all the newly registered people. It's absolutely your right to stay anonymous. Whether or not other people/dancers take you seriously is another thing.

Regardless, remember the rules of BTF that you agreed to what you registered (in particular rule#5 & rule#9). The moderators try to avoid disrupting a conversation as much as possible, but there is no reason why this topic should have anything about eating cows, Sikhism, Donald Trump/Obama, etc etc. A warning to all to stay on topic - there is an "off topic" subforum of BTF if you want to discuss non-relevant subject matter.

Just wanted put that out there since we have received some PM's and moderation reports,

~ Basim

 

[JackPaaji]

I hate to butt in to all the great commentary, ideas, and reactions that people old & new to BTF have about this competition (and the circuit as a whole)... this topic has had some great humor and shocking things mentioned.. but just to clarify two things...



BhangraTeamsForum (BTF) has nothing to do with any particular competition(s), the act of judging, or any particular team(s). It's simply a medium for people to voice their opinions, share information about bhangra dancing in general, bhangra teams to share information, a central place for competitions to disperse information, for people from all walks of life to speak about Punjab/Punjabi culture, share music/mixes, have random off-topic discussions, etc etc.

I am perfectly sure what you meant to write was "UBJ approved"... [actually instead of "approved" - maybe "registered"/"certified" is a better word since that's what the UBJ committee does when you agree to the standards they have set for competitions].. but I just want to make sure there was no confusion.



Welcome to BTF @ all the newly registered people. It's absolutely your right to stay anonymous. Whether or not other people/dancers take you seriously is another thing.

Regardless, remember the rules of BTF that you agreed to what you registered (in particular rule#5 & rule#9). The moderators try to avoid disrupting a conversation as much as possible, but there is no reason why this topic should have anything about eating cows, Sikhism, Donald Trump/Obama, etc etc. A warning to all to stay on topic - there is an "off topic" subforum of BTF if you want to discuss non-relevant subject matter.

Just wanted put that out there as I have received some PM's and moderation reports,

~ Basim

Well Basin, I use analogies to emphasize my opinion, which I believe does not violate BTF policies. However, I think it's against BTF rules to report users simply because their opinion differs from yours. And yes, my opinion is in fact relevant to this subforum. I believe I have to right to voice my opinion that people are complaining about this simply because they were personally affected this time. I agree with the judges being bias. The amount of times this has happened is insane and the same judges continue judging. Don't wanna drop names but "DJ Paini" is notorious for this. I think the slides that "kids" shouldn't have to deal with spending money on flights and then being dissapoutbed at a loss, whether veiwed as just or injust, is absolute shit. Stuff like that happens in life, you get over it and keep moving forward. Those demanding rejudgements are extremely out of line. What happen if a team places previously but then after this rejudment doesn't place? Do we have a re-rejudement? Anyways, put this shit behind you and continue on with your life.

With love,
Jack Paaji

 

[guranshsingh]

I agree with Ricky and think that the BIT6 concept for judges meetings is one that should be adopted more throughout the circuit.

In our judges meeting post comp, we were told the structure would be 1 minute per judge, followed by 2 minutes for questions. We were expecting that 1 minute to be constructive feedback for how we can improve for the rest of the season, particularly because this was our first competition of the season. However, one of the judges took almost 3 minutes to basically go through our entire routine and point out every mistake and ask why we did what we did. This judge took so much time questioning our decisions, we were unable to explain our reasoning or hear substantial feedback from the other judges. The other two judges have judged our team before, and we have never had a problem with them; they always try to provide helpful feedback for our team, but because of this one judge, they were unable to do so this time around.

Unfortunately, we weren't able to see the other teams' performances, so we cannot comment on who deserved first. We look forward to seeing the performances and hope that the deserving teams get rewarded.

 

[kundia moocha]

Lets all be honest for a second. Does this mean that every time a team doesn't get a placing they "want" they're going to complain about it along with other teams. Imagine how many competitions would get "re-judged". Why not just send in videos to the judges and let them judge instead of holding actual competitions. Think of it this way, you are all well aware that judging a dance, regardless of what kind it is, is a subjective task. This isn't a sport where it's easy to select the winner based off number of goals or points scored because the points awarded here are extremely subjective (albeit, they shouldn't be). For an analogy, when you hand in an essay at school, there is obviously a rubric. Yes, you put your time and effort into it but sometimes the prof agrees with what you said and sometimes the prof doesn't. Now if you want to get it re-graded I am sure you can but maybe other people in your class don't so you get your mark re-graded but others don't. That being said, the prof doesn't have to change the mark. Hence, everyone at the comp had the opportunity to talk to the judges after the comp and you know what, at the end of the day they were given the authority to pick the winners. If people were so upset with what happened because of the judges and knew prior to the competition that there were teams affiliated with certain judges you shouldn't have competed. Now I don't agree with the moderator because the person named Jack Paaji is actually correct by bringing up Obama and Trump. Trump is the president because the votes happened and that is that. In this situation the placings have happened and that is a done deal. People do have the right to protest but it doesn't mean there will be another election. Similarly, the results for the competition are out and everyone has the right to not agree but it doesn't and shouldn't mean that the results will get changed.

Also, I just have to say that during the competition I saw the owner of Gabroo TV hanging out with some teams and not others, so I don't get why his view is being listened to when his perspective is completely bias. No one can say that he is neutral in this matter because he clearly pointed out his bias for some teams compared to others. Yes he has an opinion so don't say I never said he doesn't but when someone wants to make things better it is usually more beneficial when they are non-partisan.

 

[Jennifer Bhabi]

Lets all be honest for a second. Does this mean that every time a team doesn't get a placing they "want" they're going to complain about it along with other teams. Imagine how many competitions would get "re-judged". Why not just send in videos to the judges and let them judge instead of holding actual competitions. Think of it this way, you are all well aware that judging a dance, regardless of what kind it is, is a subjective task. This isn't a sport where it's easy to select the winner based off number of goals or points scored because the points awarded here are extremely subjective (albeit, they shouldn't be). For an analogy, when you hand in an essay at school, there is obviously a rubric. Yes, you put your time and effort into it but sometimes the prof agrees with what you said and sometimes the prof doesn't. Now if you want to get it re-graded I am sure you can but maybe other people in your class don't so you get your mark re-graded but others don't. That being said, the prof doesn't have to change the mark. Hence, everyone at the comp had the opportunity to talk to the judges after the comp and you know what, at the end of the day they were given the authority to pick the winners. If people were so upset with what happened because of the judges and knew prior to the competition that there were teams affiliated with certain judges you shouldn't have competed. Now I don't agree with the moderator because the person named Jack Paaji is actually correct by bringing up Obama and Trump. Trump is the president because the votes happened and that is that. In this situation the placings have happened and that is a done deal. People do have the right to protest but it doesn't mean there will be another election. Similarly, the results for the competition are out and everyone has the right to not agree but it doesn't and shouldn't mean that the results will get changed.

Also, I just have to say that during the competition I saw the owner of Gabroo TV hanging out with some teams and not others, so I don't get why his view is being listened to when his perspective is completely bias. No one can say that he is neutral in this matter because he clearly pointed out his bias for some teams compared to others. Yes he has an opinion so don't say I never said he doesn't but when someone wants to make things better it is usually more beneficial when they are non-partisan.

Great points kundia moocha, I am able to understand that everyone is not content with the placings and everyone is focused on fixing things and making Bhangra better for the younger and upcoming generations, but going back and redoing placings, which can only be judged through video now, is not the same as judging live. Every team had the right to speak up once the placings were announced, placings could have been redone on stage, then and there, when the "7/8 teams" felt like placings were not fair. How about the judges release score sheets of each and every team, followed by an explanation of how and why this team got this certain placing, that way, instead of everyone having their own assumptions, we will have something to base our opinions and thoughts off of.
Gabroo Tv is for sure bias, he only recorded snippets of teams he is associated with or liked, and when it came down to other teams he turned his camera away. He is very well known and this wasn't expected of him, so therefore his opinion on how placings weren't fair, is for sure just adding to the problem, not solving it.

 

[Saleem]

Good discussion going on here, for the most part. I'm disheartened that it seems the majority of teams disagreed with the results. It is good, though, that the community is here, discussing it and trying to improve the process.

This was the first official "BTF approved" judging competition and was a complete debacle.

I just wanted to respond to this to say that BTF supports that Union of Bhangra Judges' is doing something to *improve the process*. We support: improving the transparency of judging selection, communication pre-competition between judges and teams, and communication and accountability post-competition between teams, judges, and competitions. BTF is not approving competitions, judges, rubrics, or competition results.

 

[kundia moocha]

All of this discussion is good and all but some of the teams out there using the hashtag #Robbed2017 need to realize they weren't the first team in the history of bhangra to not get a placing that they wanted. How ridiculous would it be to see every single team after EVERY competition use #RobbedAtBruin #RobbedAtMotorCity... great example for the youth guys, good job.

Secondly, the organizer, I believe his name was Gursimran, just set a terrible example by not standing behind the selection of judges. He himself said he apologized for the judging committee. What precedence does this set for future compitions that he holds. Do you guys think judges will be willing to judge a competition where the person holding that competition can't stand behind his judges? That was a terrible display of integrity and respect to the judges. Personally, this goes out to all future judges. Do not judge for this organization again since they will not stand behind your decisions

 

[Gabroo Tv]

Also, I just have to say that during the competition I saw the owner of Gabroo TV hanging out with some teams and not others, so I don't get why his view is being listened to when his perspective is completely bias. No one can say that he is neutral in this matter because he clearly pointed out his bias for some teams compared to others. Yes he has an opinion so don't say I never said he doesn't but when someone wants to make things better it is usually more beneficial when they are non-partisan.

Ah, you're probably referring to ABC. I was shooting a mini documentary on ABC, hence you saw me walking around recording them throughout the weekend. I did hang out with a few other teams, such as Shan E Punjab, Bruin Bhangra, and a few members of Vancity and SFBC. For the teams that asked me if I could take pictures at the mixer, I did so gladly. Biased, eh? Not sure where you felt this, especially considering I haven't publicly (or privately for that matter) voiced my opinion on who should have placed at what spot. Anyways, much love to ya!

Gabroo Tv is for sure bias, he only recorded snippets of teams he is associated with or liked, and when it came down to other teams he turned his camera away. He is very well known and this wasn't expected of him, so therefore his opinion on how placings weren't fair, is for sure just adding to the problem, not solving it.

I'm sorry that you share this viewpoint, Bhabhi Ji. I can only assume that you're referring to the Instagram story clips? If I was biased, I wouldn't have offered the committee and every performing team the login information for the GTV Instagram account, now would I? I guess I also wouldn't have spent a few minutes helping Hardeep, from the Royal Queenz, log into the account, since he was having trouble doing so? Ah darn it I guess this also means I have a bias for not liking ABC, since I didn't record a clip of their performance from the angle that I was sitting? Damn, you caught me. For those of you who are not aware, I don't use a tripod. Every GTV video you see is shot with my hands. Such being said, it got a little tricky holding a camera and a cell phone simultaneously so I did the best that I could.

If anyone else has any additional questions or concerns, please do feel free to email me (harjot@gabroo.tv) as I don't check or log into BTF very often.

Much love,
Harjot

 

[BhangraSUCKS]

Mr. Harjot Saab, you are a dime-a- dozen. When I am running gas station with my father, I always can look to your video for inspiration. Its unfair you are attacked like this, but know I am your biggest fan.

 

[Basim]

Mr. Harjot Saab, you are a dime dozen. When I am running gas station with my father, I always can look to your video for inspiration. Its unfair you are attacked like this, but know I am your biggest fan.

Hi friend. Perhaps your meant to write something like "a diamond in the rough" rather than "dime-a-dozen." That would make your sentence more cohesive.

I think most understood your intentions though.

~ Basim

 

[BhangraSUCKS]

Thank you Ji, I made correction

 

[hardeep_singh]

Ah, you're probably referring to ABC. I was shooting a mini documentary on ABC, hence you saw me walking around recording them throughout the weekend. I did hang out with a few other teams, such as Shan E Punjab, Bruin Bhangra, and a few members of Vancity and SFBC. For the teams that asked me if I could take pictures at the mixer, I did so gladly. Biased, eh? Not sure where you felt this, especially considering I haven't publicly (or privately for that matter) voiced my opinion on who should have placed at what spot. Anyways, much love to ya!



I'm sorry that you share this viewpoint, Bhabhi Ji. I can only assume that you're referring to the Instagram story clips? If I was biased, I wouldn't have offered the committee and every performing team the login information for the GTV Instagram account, now would I? I guess I also wouldn't have spent a few minutes helping Hardeep, from the Royal Queenz, log into the account, since he was having trouble doing so? Ah darn it I guess this also means I have a bias for not liking ABC, since I didn't record a clip of their performance from the angle that I was sitting? Damn, you caught me. For those of you who are not aware, I don't use a tripod. Every GTV video you see is shot with my hands. Such being said, it got a little tricky holding a camera and a cell phone simultaneously so I did the best that I could.

If anyone else has any additional questions or concerns, please do feel free to email me (harjot@gabroo.tv) as I don't check or log into BTF very often.

Much love,
Harjot

yup, shitting on a team you owe 30% of your total youtube views to is definitely unbiased behavior.

 

[BhangraSUCKS]

yup, shitting on a team you owe 30% of your total youtube views to is definitely unbiased behavior.

You are just jealous because he shoots better videos than Mr. Bender Rodriguez

 

[kundia moocha]

You are just jealous because he shoots better videos than Mr. Bender Rodriguez

@Gabroo Tv your response?

 

[baljot]

Cashh me oussideee how bow dah?