The 'Talibanization' of Pakistan's biggest city

[Summy]

Interesting, and troubling at the same time, there was an article that was recently sent to me talking about the Taliban gaining increasing power in Pakistan's biggest city, and cultural headquaters, Karachi.

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/30/1469342.aspx

Although I didn't appreciate some of the language in the article (ie- karachi being a dirty city, with sad camels), it defintely raises an issue that is almost taboo, and unevaluated in the South Asian community, Islamic radicalism, and anti american values in Pakistan. I am part of the crowd that thinks that as other nations in South Asia prosper, as will India. Since Bhutto's assassination, there has been no doubt that Pakistan is in huge trouble, economically, socially and most important in philosophy. Pakistan's government mainly under Musharraf has been pro american, but the public has remained the opposite. Now, with Pakistan in choas, will the Taliban come in, and will we see a repeat of Afghanistan?

One thing needs to be straighten out, the Taliban did do some good. Something I argued before, the Taliban was good for Afghanistan, and the people, and they were heralded as saviours. The problems, in a very basic sense, arose with their unwillingness to appease bigger islamic nations, and to use their natural resources for the benefit of others. They really did stand up for the Afghani people, however the leadership wanted to fight a war much beyond these issues.


Are pakistani's concerned about the influence of the Taliban in Pakistan? Should the world fear another government that will support their intiatives? Many people argue they have been helping Al Qaeda and offering them protection in the mountain regions of North western Pakistan, but with the infiltration into the biggest city in Pakistan, the country is danger of letting the power be in the hands of people who want to cause a large amount of pain to westerners. How do Pakistani's feel about this?

 

[Temurzai]

i have alot to say bout the Talebs, and how they are percieved within Afghanistan, and outside of Afghanistan. One thing tho, it is not as simple as saying Talebs were 'heralded as saviours'.

The problem is, there is deep racial seperation even within Afghanistan, between Pashtuns, Farsiwans, Hazaras, Tajiks, Uzbeks, etc.

Although I agree, the Talebs did do good for Afghanistan, they did so when taking over after the Russians ruined many lives. Most people here, and even Pakistan and India, do not know the slightest of what really happened in Afghanistan with the Russian invasion, and what the Pashtuns did to get Afghanistan back. They did of course have the support due to superior militaristic characteristics, but the Talebs treatment of the people was horrendous.

Connection to Karachi...

Karachi (ever since the Russian invasion of Afghanistan) had an increased influx of Pashtuns and Farsiwans both over the years. Karachi for a while now is known to be the biggest city in Pakistan, and has more Pashtuns than the 4 corners of Pashtunistan do (Kabul, Peshawar, Kandahar, Quetta). Hell, even my moms family ended up in Karachi. That's how I know Urdu.

Everyone knows the Talebs are Pashtun, obvi.


Similar situation...and this will only make sense if you reallllly know whats going on, Iran. The Ulema was favored by the people, and after election, most hated it due to unfair treatment and broken promises. Still, there are many who support both parties, the Talebs in Afghanistan, and the Ulema in Iran.

This isn't an attack on Summy, Summy knows his stuff. Any questions let me know (that goes for all)

ps: oh look, its daylight and i can EAT. yesssssssssssssssss

 

[Summy]

Taiymur brother, I didn't mean to insinuate that all Afghani's saw the taliban as saviours, but I was talking about when the Taliban took power.

In the west, people have this idea that the Taliban is this anti american force, that has been long against american ideals. People dont know that in 78 when the invasion of the soviet forces supporting the afghani government, the US supported the mujhadeen forces, which included the grounds in which the Taliban would arise. The US supported the Taliban greatly in their clashes with the Soviet Union, mostly because of the arms race, and the fallout of those events. Americans, and the ISI (pakistani intellgence agency) helped the resisting forces. The ISI would gather muslims all over the world against the invasion, which can explain afghans cultural melting pot.

What Taiymur is speaking to, is the long seperation between pro and anti soviet union forces, and other sections of the population that could have been pro or anti taliban. But for the most part, the previous afghan government, that recieved support for soviet forces, were accused of, and Taiymur would agree, were guilty of some horrible acts against humanity. When the taliban came in Pashtun areas defintely favoured the taliban, and non pashtun areas maybe had disagreements towards their power, but from americans to even non pashtuni's, the taliban was generally seen as something that was positive for the nation and a step forward from the previous afghani government rule.

A sub story is that even people within the taliban, like durrani's didnt necessary agree with other pashtuni's and their handling right? What the hazara's that are a big part of the afghani population, I believe they differed from the taliban rule greatly.

In my opinion, and this is just personal, I believe that the Taliban's tactics and purposes greatly changed. I think they were rebels but with a good cause. They had the support of the international community in their efforts against the soviet backed forces even if that support was to withold power for the soviet, or use the natural resources from themselves, but america and other did support them heavily. They had the oppertunity to do well. They did do well, even if they ushered in a more sunni sharia law, they did do some things right from the mid 90's on... I think the leadership ran into problems. Dont get me wrong they did bad, a whole lot of bad, but people get this false impression that they were these extremists against america, which is not the fact.

Now, what the americans are employing are the people who may not have backed the taliban in the first place, or the the non-pashtunni's, or whatever have you, that are were against the taliban rule or became against the rule as time passed...

The problem is the taliban are now rebels without a political cause but more of a personal vindictive one and especially in the reigion they are in, maybe because of the high pashtun and fariwan populations as taiymur pointed out, they are very influential. Regardless of the makeup of pakistan, the taliban is gaining significant power, and may push their agenda in a country that has the capabilities to do a lot of damage. Pakistan is defintely in a cross-road right now.