SMD acceptance into UBC

[Multani]

jo kismat vich likhayah ah, ohi hona ah

lokan diyan, kismat vich tan beeba bahut kuch likheya aa par 'btf' di kismat ch sirf "larrayi, seyaapa, dhamkiyan, gaalan, drama-baji, N' besti" e likhi aa. :

p.s. "vaisey jeh teri kismat di gall keeti jaave tan, oo aapan facebook teh kar lava geh"

lokan diyan, kismat vich tan beeba bahut kuch likheya aa par 'btf' di kismat ch sirf "[SIZE=x-large]larrayi, seyaapa, dhamkiyan, gaalan, drama-baji, N' besti[/SIZE][SIZE=x-large]" [/SIZE][SIZE=x-large]e likhi aa[/SIZE]. :

 

[Waleed]

3. Why is this lack of meritocracy important? a. It's disheartening to teams who are working hard b. It's discouraging to new teams who might bring a level of creativity and competition c. It might spiral out of control to the point where folks start trying to achieve personal vendettas is a 'professional' environment d. At the end of the day - bhangra competitions should celebrate our culture, bring our community closer and provide an outlet for creativity and competition, not the other way around

+1

 

[Nikhil]

Each and every competition has the right to invite only those teams it feels deserve to be at their show. One hopes that each particular committee constructs a line-up that it deems to be as good as can be. There's no "bhangra association" that governs over the fairness of these selections - it's what that particular committee deems best for their show. If UBC thinks a show without SMD is what's best for the competition, for their audience and for the NYC community, we have to live with it. By no means did we mean to come off as "complainers" or "whiners", apologies if that's how it was received. Based on the responses we've received in this thread, we would like to clarify a couple things regarding our reasons for initially posting:1. Why did we post in the first place? We posted to make people aware that we believe we were unjustly denied a spot in a home-town competition. Judging from the precedent set by most bhangra competitions, a well-qualified and local team should have been accepted into UBC. We realize this is not enforceable due to the lack of some kind of central bhangra regulatory authority. But on a common law basis, we’re not wrong to have been surprised by this decision.
2. Why is it important that we were denied a spot? We believe that there might be a bigger issue of a lack of meritocracy in the bhangra competition world that we would like to highlight3. Why is this lack of meritocracy important? a. It's disheartening to teams who are working hard b. It's discouraging to new teams who might bring a level of creativity and competition c. It might spiral out of control to the point where folks start trying to achieve personal vendettas is a 'professional' environment d. At the end of the day - bhangra competitions should celebrate our culture, bring our community closer and provide an outlet for creativity and competition, not the other way aroundHence, what are we really trying to achieve?We are not trying to get into the competition, or merely whining about our rejection (we've been rejected from plenty of competitions in the past), but chose to speak up this time because we question the decisions behind our lack of inclusion. If these decisions were made honestly and based on merit - then we have nothing to say other than that we will try harder. But if not, we would ask this particular competition and other competition organizors in the future to really think about the broader implications of their decisions on the community moving forward. [SIZE=small]Are there any other teams who feel as though bhangra might be veering away from a meritocratic path? If we are alone in this thinking then we would like to know so we can re-evaluate our thinking. If, however, there are other teams who can identify with our thinking - it would be great to start a conversation around how we can all better achieve a more transparent competition organizational system together for the future. [/SIZE]

Hadouken!!! Street Fighter 2 Black Belt Ryu

 

[Avneet]

I'm not going to touch on "vendetta's" or their possibly poor business decision by not choosing another local team. They're great things to discuss but I will just talk about what I find most important.

Dheerja, I am glad you replied because the entire time I was really wondering "What are they actually trying to achieve?" so thanks for making that clear

My only concern with meritocracy used to choose a line up for a Bhangra competition is it would actually be a negative impact on new, deseerving teams looking for their big break. Meritocracy would promise spots to teams with merit among the bhangra community and a proven record of "excellence." What merit does a new team have when they haven't been given many chances to prove themselves as a superior team? The only chance they have is based on the potential they show in their application video and by luck a compassionate committee that is reviewing their video.

In my opinion, diversity is key in a competition. And I think using a quota is a great way to achieve diversity. Select a number of "alpha" teams, a number of "beta" teams and a couple of new/upcoming teams to show the community promise in the future of Bhangra in NA. In the selection process also keep in mind that you need balance in All Guy, All Girl and Co Ed teams. Its a pretty good equation for an entertaining show.

If the community stood up and demanded meritocracy be used in every selection process, however, the expectation would automatically be that only the best 10 teams get in , not any ten teams that have some merit. We are human, we automatically would expect the absolute BEST. Every competition would look more or less the same and any team that falls short of the top ten (look back at BTF threads to get an idea on the current top 10), their only hope/chance would be "gosh I hope SGPD/NJ/VCU/APD/Empire/etc etc doesn't apply, otherwise we are screwed!" .... and any new team would have no hope at all.

Is that really how we want our competitions to look like? It will be a self fulfilling prophecy. Only the "best" will succeed, only the "best" will be sought after, only the "best" will dance, only the "best" will get better. Had we applied this rule with competition organizers a handful of years ago, where would your team be??

Not knowing if they used quota or not, I can only assume they did. And with quota, comes some subjectivity. Who they thought were the best alpha/beta/new teams can be argued, but they can't be faulted or "made an example out of" because it's not like they chose a dud line up. MOST of the responses on this thread are showing that the community is really pleased.

It's clear SMD is upset and disheartened, and it is understandable. I still go back to my first feelings that all of this fuss over who deserved it and who didnt is taking away from the experience of the teams that DID get in and probably worked eqaully hard to get in and that's not okay. We should all be better than/above this. Encourage the 13 teams by showing grace, don't discourage them with outrage against the committee. If you truly want advice and thoughts from your peers on the matter, a better way to have done this is maybe in a week or twos time, starting a separate thread about meritocracy within Bhangra competitions without using UBC as an example. Your continued debate with UBC should have been handled privately.

(I am sorry I have found so much interest in this thread and am writing big fat essays, it's been a while since something on BTF has struck a chord in me and i found this interesting... AND it's my last week at work so I have completely CHECKED OUT!!! <3)

 

[Saab]

Each and every competition has the right to invite only those teams it feels deserve to be at their show. One hopes that each particular committee constructs a line-up that it deems to be as good as can be. There's no "bhangra association" that governs over the fairness of these selections - it's what that particular committee deems best for their show. If UBC thinks a show without SMD is what's best for the competition, for their audience and for the NYC community, we have to live with it. By no means did we mean to come off as "complainers" or "whiners", apologies if that's how it was received. Based on the responses we've received in this thread, we would like to clarify a couple things regarding our reasons for initially posting:1. Why did we post in the first place? We posted to make people aware that we believe we were unjustly denied a spot in a home-town competition. Judging from the precedent set by most bhangra competitions, a well-qualified and local team should have been accepted into UBC. We realize this is not enforceable due to the lack of some kind of central bhangra regulatory authority. But on a common law basis, we’re not wrong to have been surprised by this decision.
2. Why is it important that we were denied a spot? We believe that there might be a bigger issue of a lack of meritocracy in the bhangra competition world that we would like to highlight3. Why is this lack of meritocracy important? a. It's disheartening to teams who are working hard b. It's discouraging to new teams who might bring a level of creativity and competition c. It might spiral out of control to the point where folks start trying to achieve personal vendettas is a 'professional' environment d. At the end of the day - bhangra competitions should celebrate our culture, bring our community closer and provide an outlet for creativity and competition, not the other way aroundHence, what are we really trying to achieve?We are not trying to get into the competition, or merely whining about our rejection (we've been rejected from plenty of competitions in the past), but chose to speak up this time because we question the decisions behind our lack of inclusion. If these decisions were made honestly and based on merit - then we have nothing to say other than that we will try harder. But if not, we would ask this particular competition and other competition organizors in the future to really think about the broader implications of their decisions on the community moving forward. [SIZE=small]Are there any other teams who feel as though bhangra might be veering away from a meritocratic path? If we are alone in this thinking then we would like to know so we can re-evaluate our thinking. If, however, there are other teams who can identify with our thinking - it would be great to start a conversation around how we can all better achieve a more transparent competition organizational system together for the future. [/SIZE]

Its great to know that there are people out there that want to have a more transparent view of things, where we can all see what competitions do and don't do. I myself have danced for two teams, one thats starting to get into a lot of competitions and another that gets routinely rejected.

I dont know how much people are aware, and to pretend that I am aware of everything would be ignorance on my part, but I know that competitions
a) Like to ask teams to come
b) Like reputation/geography
c) Have tastes for what they want
I guess being transparent provides you with an answer to maybe how a competition discriminates its applicant pool, but for me, it means that their are x amount of spots in a competition. It also helps to prophesize what teams are getting and whos not getting in.

Also on meritocracy, I dont really know what teams think when it comes to applying to competitions, but I think its a crapshoot when it comes to applications for teams. I dont pretend to say that there are teams out there that I dont think are good that get into competitions, or that there are teams that get unjustly screwed in situations, but I believe that, inherantly, when comps ask for tryout videos they judge based on that, and try to base on that alone, as that is usually the only thing that is put into the packet to accept teams. Ive come to understand that usually isnt the only thing, and sometimes usually isnt the prevalent thing that determines teams.

The thing is, im sure that this is discussed behind closed doors a million of times, but the reason its usually not brought up on btf is that you lack the formality and familiarity of a face-to-face discussion, people troll what you write over and over, and nothing productive in the way of thinking on people(whether it be inviduals or groups) ever really comes about. I think many people would like to discuss it, but btf discussions rarely ever break ground or change things, or introduce new choreo, but rather re-hash old arguments that promote obstinate thinking.

It would be nice to discuss this, as I think many people have overlooked the tryout video and the nuances of a bhangra application to the prestige factor of competition level teams. I think I can speak for everyone in that no one ever really understands the modes of selection, and what goes through peoples heads. However, the vibrant discussion on btf is something your not going to get on this thread. At most you might a small rationale, but the organizers will feel like they owe you nothing more than what they have given you and BTF'ers will +1 you or disagree with you.

The good thing is that usually most change occurs from the top down, so its nice to know a team that I consider elite like SMD espouses something like this, because if change in these kinds of things should come from anywhere, it should be from an elite team. I am always down for a good discussion that better ables people to gauge their acceptance into competitions. Making good changes just makes everything a whole lot more enjoyable for everyone, and thats what it should be about.

 

[Saab]

I also think that a seperate thread later on would have been a good idea, as many people on the thread agree with your sentiments, and it would be nice to have it with not so many people at each others throats.

 

[mafzal]

Encourage the 13 teams by showing grace, don't discourage them with outrage against the committee... Your continued debate with UBC should have been handled privately.

1. I don't see any "outrage" here... The girls were extremely graceful and diplomatic in their speech
2. It needed to be public in order to bring awareness and get people thinkin and talkin bout said issues

Maybe could be split into a new topic. I do agree with that

 

[oJaLa]

Encourage the 13 teams by showing grace, don't discourage them with outrage against the committee... Your continued debate with UBC should have been handled privately.

1. I don't see any "outrage" here... The girls were extremely graceful and diplomatic in their speech
2. It needed to be public in order to bring awareness and get people thinkin and talkin bout said issues

Maybe could be split into a new topic. I do agree with that

You took the words right out my mouth.

Also, I don't see outrage in the girls' posts, but its funny to see the outrage in the posts of those people who are not even involved in the situation...

 

[Avneet]

Encourage the 13 teams by showing grace, don't discourage them with outrage against the committee... Your continued debate with UBC should have been handled privately.

1. I don't see any "outrage" here... The girls were extremely graceful and diplomatic in their speech
2. It needed to be public in order to bring awareness and get people thinkin and talkin bout said issues

Maybe could be split into a new topic. I do agree with that

Outrage isn't always shown with negative words and the use of a harsh tone to express it. You can be outraged and have a mature way of expressing it, which SMD did.

They weren't rude, but they were really upset and they made it public at the same time 13 teams were happy and celebrating, and that to some people doesn't meet a certain standard of good taste.

Grace isn't just a way of expression. It's an action. Grace would have been choosing to opt out of commenting with a strong personal issue at this moment, on this thread, in respect to and honor of of the 13 teams who were selected.

 

[jvirk]

and it continues on and on and on....

 

[dheerja]

Apologies to the accepted teams, we reacted immediately and I agree with Avneet and the posters above that this could have waited. This is exactly the kind of discussion we want to have on BTF, and thank you to everyone who posted thoughtful responses. However, it is a larger discussion that we can bring back at a later time without taking away from the lineup itself.

 

[PartyJatt]

and it continues on and on and on....

Now UBC will remind me of this

 

[Waleed]

Moderator's note: Topics split.

 

[dheerja]

Each and every competition has the right to invite only those teams it feels deserve to be at their show. One hopes that each particular committee constructs a line-up that it deems to be as good as can be. There's no "bhangra association" that governs over the fairness of these selections - it's what that particular committee deems best for their show. If UBC thinks a show without SMD is what's best for the competition, for their audience and for the NYC community, we have to live with it.

By no means did we mean to come off as "complainers" or "whiners", apologies if that's how it was received. Based on the responses we've received in this thread, we would like to clarify a couple things regarding our reasons for initially posting:

1. Why did we post in the first place?
We posted to make people aware that we believe we were unjustly denied a spot in a home-town competition. Judging from the precedent set by most bhangra competitions, a well-qualified and local team should have been accepted into UBC. We realize this is not enforceable due to the lack of some kind of central bhangra regulatory authority. But on a common law basis, we’re not wrong to have been surprised by this decision.
2. Why is it important that we were denied a spot?
We believe that there might be a bigger issue of a lack of meritocracy in the bhangra competition world that we would like to highlight
3. Why is this lack of meritocracy important?
a. It's disheartening to teams who are working hard
b. It's discouraging to new teams who might bring a level of creativity and competition
c. It might spiral out of control to the point where folks start trying to achieve personal vendettas is a 'professional' environment
d. At the end of the day - bhangra competitions should celebrate our culture, bring our community closer and provide an outlet for creativity and competition, not the other way around

Hence, what are we really trying to achieve?
We are not trying to get into the competition, or merely whining about our rejection (we've been rejected from plenty of competitions in the past), butchose to speak up this time because we question the decisions behind our lack of inclusion. If these decisions were made honestly and based on merit - then we have nothing to say other than that we will try harder. But if not, we would ask this particular competition and other competition organizors in the future to really think about the broader implications of their decisions on the community moving forward.

[SIZE=small]Are there any other teams who feel as though bhangra might be veering away from a meritocratic path? If we are alone in this thinking then we would like to know so we can re-evaluate our thinking. If, however, there are other teams who can identify with our thinking - it would be great to start a conversation around how we can all better achieve a more transparent competition organizational system together for the future.[/SIZE]

 

[Ak_Di_Nishani]

LOL seriously? you applied didnt get in.. why would you post it here? Sympathy from us wont get you into the competition will it? We cant give you answers only they can.

Yes you guys remain one of the best girl teams to ever preform and one of my favorites personally.

However, one thing should be clear NO ONE is OWED anything in life. I understand your disappointment and sympathize with you but i feel like all your accomplishing with this thread is tarnishing your high standards with whining.

Wait for your next chance. Use your bitterness as motivation, get knocked down stand back up.

 

[Don]

the wise words of tupac shakur

"You can spend minutes, hours, days, weeks, or even months over-analyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what could've, would've happened... or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the fuck on."

 

[Archana]

3. Why is this lack of meritocracy important?
a. It's disheartening to teams who are working hard
b. It's discouraging to new teams who might bring a level of creativity and competition
c. It might spiral out of control to the point where folks start trying to achieve personal vendettas is a 'professional' environment
d. At the end of the day - bhangra competitions should celebrate our culture, bring our community closer and provide an outlet for creativity and competition, not the other way around

+1

 

[Ashveer]

3. Why is this lack of meritocracy important?
a. It's disheartening to teams who are working hard
b. It's discouraging to new teams who might bring a level of creativity and competition
c. It might spiral out of control to the point where folks start trying to achieve personal vendettas is a 'professional' environment
d. At the end of the day - bhangra competitions should celebrate our culture, bring our community closer and provide an outlet for creativity and competition, not the other way around

+1

I'm on a lollercoaster

 

[Gurvir]

i wish i was cool enough to get fired up on BTF....

 

[ENVY BANG-RUH]

i wish i was cool enough to get fired up on BTF....

Here's your theme music...go for it

Rocky Music Video-Eye Of The Tiger