.

[KarnSingh]

.

 

[Mr. Mankiran]

I don't think it's that big of a deal anymore, jmo.

 

[voxanimus]

they have been criticized negatively for wearing chadre.


and as far as it not being "customary," well, the majority of "customary" practices in regards to Punjabi/Indian/brown culture are fantastically heteronormative and gender binary. the assumptions that women "shouldn't" wear chadre and men "shouldn't" wear saris are part of the same overarching gender-rigid mindset that would also prevent women from doing bhangra, etc.


it's just part an evolution about gender attitudes. cf. miss pooja singing solo songs like "charche." i'm pretty sure that shit wouldn't have flown even 10 years ago.

 

[mafzal]

Guys can choose what they want to wear, and girls can choose what they want to wear. As long as no one's vardi is coming unpinned or falling off, it doesn't matter if girls choose to wear salwaraan or chaadrey. Either are acceptable options for vardiyan.


Is there a particular reason this has become a concern of yours?

 

[DamanSingh]

Why aren't female dancers scrutinized negatively for wearing chadre? In addition, shouldn't female dancers be required to wear paghs as well, if there is good reason for chadre?

Because some female dancers choose to wear chadre, they should be required to wear paggan?

I don't understand.

 

[Ashveer]

http://bhangrateamsforum.com/discuss/main-bhangra-discussion/crossdressing/

 

[Basim]

I know we've had similar topics or brief discussions in the past on this topic (i.e. http://bhangrateamsforum.com/discuss/main-bhangra-discussion/crossdressing/), but it will be interesting to hear what people have to say about this now that this practice is more "common" in the NA bhangra circuit.

I can see women wearing chaadre as being frowned upon in Punjab, especially if dancing in a public cultural show/mela/etc. But then again, we don't have bhangra being performed by females back in the "motherland." Culturally/traditionally, I've only seen females dance in shalwar-kameez or churidar pajamas.

I guess this is simply a situation with females embracing a male dominated dance and trying to look appropriate, stylistic, and most of all - feel comfortable. I can't speak on behalf of all the women dancers we have on the circuit, but it might be "easier" (more comfortable) to dance in a chaadre vs a shalwar - especially doing moves like bathke. Also, it definitely helps to give that more masculine stance/look and show "power" while doing various moves.

If it helps the females out competitively, I could care less what they wear as long as it's appropriate (i.e. no excessive skin shown). The chunni identifies them as being females, hence why they choose to keep it versus going with a pagg/turla/etc (which also requires a lot of work to tie & maintain on stage). If females wore paggs, it might be hard to distinguish themselves (see AEG's "gimmick" with Navi from a few years back).

~ Basim


EDIT : Dam Ashveer too quick on the trigger - beat me on the link.

 

[Govind]

From my stand point, a pagg is not a uniquely "masculine" piece of attire, the most obvious precedent being a long tradition of paggan worn by women particularly in the Arizona Sikh sect. I would defer to Ashveer here b/c he is better educated on these topics (he has corrected my ignorance on several occasions!) and it has been years since my anthropology days!


I also don't see a gender distinction on who can wear patiala salwars...so by shear logic, mixing and matching doesn't seem to be a problem! Was it NJ girls who first wore chaadraan on stage? No criticism here...

 

[singhta27]

I personally think that girls should wear chadre. Not everyone has the same form all the time, especially foot work, some people kick their legs out when doing a move and some don't, with chadre its somewhat hidden. And if its co-ed, theres a sense of balance when everyone is wearing chadre. Girls shouldn't be [font=verdana, sans-serif]scrutinized for what they wear as long as nothing is being revealed and nothing is falling off. Historically and culturally speaking, women wore a salwar kameez to the mela so they should, but according to that men wore punjabi jutti's, and i don't see anytime dancing with shoes on. Plus [/font][SIZE=small]there is not should or shouldn't when it comes to vardiyan.[/SIZE]

 

[Kaur]

I have always kept Panj girls in chadre other then for 1 season. Its harder to wear chadre in terms of having higher knees and a wider stance when you dance. In salwars its easier to see the height of legs. Overall personal preference. And Govind i think ubc or vibe wore them maybe 2001/2002?

 

[Ajay.H]

If you follow this conversation further, you end up at the question of why we even dock points for apparel, besides malfunctions. What if a team danced without paghs completely - Why should they be docked? We dance in a certain attire because that was the culture/norm but if we are deciding that we are okay disregarding the norms of the culture for personal preference, what norm do we stop at? It seems you might even end up at the conclusion that bhangra is only defined by the dance and attire is only accessory.

I don't really have a heavy opinion on this but just a thought.

 

[bhangralove]

Some ladies wear chadre because when bhangra first started, that was the main attire and the tradition has followed through. It is all about personal preference, but personally I feel like salwar kameez is more appropriate for women bhangra dancers.

 

[hardeep_singh]

I hope I don't/didn't sound like I was against it. I'm not. I feel that women in bhangra is great, and shouldn't be negatively scrutinized. But I just don't understand why they wear chadre. I always saw the costume a symbolic representation as the jatt putting on his best looking outfit, and tying a shamley-wali pagh to celebrate the harvest at a mela, where he does bhangra to celebrate. In daily life, men wore chadre, and women suits. Thus jatt dresses in a chadra. The specifications were such due to physical reasons.

unless proven with photographic or substantiated and documented evidence i refuse to consider this anything but a glamorized myth. a chadra is cheap and simple which is why in punjab its mostly publicly worn by laborers (bhayiye, nayis, chumaars, truck drivers). i can't think of anything that would motivate a zameendar to wear a chadra in public, ya it's worn casually at home but zameendars usually wear kurtey pajamay in public or plain pants and a shirt. zameendars who still work their own fields prob wear chadre or pajamay while working but a chadra is def not what would be worn to a mela or celebration. maybe i'm completely off base and my opinion on the matter is biased due to lack of exposure to areas outside my district. i hope gibbs comes on and drops some knowledge on the topic.
turlay wali pagg is another uncommon dress article, i dont know the history of it but i don't think it's specifically a part of traditional "jatt attire" i tend to assume that it's generally worn by entertainers and i'm not sure where it fits in culturally beyond that. there is an ahmadi leader from pakistan who regularly wears a "punjabi style" turlay wali pagg so the style probably goes back beyond partition era and based on the fact that gujurati and marathi turbans include some sort of turla, the concept of a turban with a turla was probably invented a loooooooooooong time ago.

on the topic of girls wearing chadre, if jagmohan kaur can rock it in the 70's any girl can can rock it on stage. if you think about it, theres not a huge difference between a chadra and a lengha, both are just large pieces of cloth one is styled to be feminine the other is seen as traditionally masculine. my problem is trying to find some sort of justification based on the mythical origins of bhangra.
Jagmohan Kaur

 

[hardeep_singh]

I don't know where you're from, but aja merey pind, I'll show you what the real Panjab is like.

that's the diversity of punjab, which is why i stated that i'm probably biased due to lack of exposure to other districts. just because doaba and malwa have different norms doesn't make either any less punjabi.

 

[singhta27]

From what i know, bhangra was done to celebrate the harvest, guys wear chadre, kurte, and turla wale pagh, girls would wear salwar kameez, but when bhangra actually became a dance form and not just a dance for celebration, girls wore pagh to basically mimic the men, in bhangra and giddah. But if you're gunna say girls should wear pagh then guys should wear punjab jutti's and everyone should use open handle saaps. Im pretty sure we all can agree that like everything else, bhangra also evolves, and it has evolved from what it and will continue to evolve for both female and male dancers. Salwar kameez and chadre should both be appropriate at comps and judges should not deduct points for that .

 

[hardeep_singh]

everyone should use open handle saaps

eh folk ah! all the saaps these days with handles are so modern/non-traditional.

 

[gursh313]

everyone should use open handle saaps

eh folk ah! all the saaps these days with handles are so modern/non-traditional.

How bout them plastic saaps?


( Brought to you by Hardeep, Inc. )

 

[Romy]

Felt like I needed to add this, 1992 SFU Girl's Bhangra team, they wore chadre too.

(Sorry for the bad quality. It's a picture of a picture off my old phone)

If anyone is interested, the alumni recently did an interview. It's narrated in Punjabi but most of the alumni speak in English.
http://www.omnitv.ca/bc/pa/videos/3268247186001/

 

[hardeep_singh]

everyone should use open handle saaps

eh folk ah! all the saaps these days with handles are so modern/non-traditional.

How bout them plastic saaps?
( Brought to you by Hardeep, Inc. )

lol those are so modern they're practically futuristic

 

[singhta27]

as far as the plastic saaps go, I've never used one, so i wouldnt know but do they make as much noise and impact as talli wood ones ?