A concern to our Sikh community

[voxanimus]

i haven't seen much input by anyone vocally hindu on this thread (mojo might have been, but i don't want to assume anything) so i thought i might as well drop my two cents into the change jar.
but flaws within the supposed adherents of a religion that are intrinsically violative of the religion's basic creeds are nothing new. i have more of an academic interest in religion than a faith-based one--i enjoy learning about the mythology and doctrine of my religion (and all religions), but i personally don't ascribe much of the events in my life to the work of a higher power nor do i turn to one on a regular basis for guidance. that being said, if someone asks me, i'd say that i am a hindu. like most of the people on this thread, it saddens me, then, that the majority of the skanky brown girls i've seen getting wasted at clubs and whatnot would make the same admittance if asked when not mind-bogglingly shitfaced. but i'm sad that they make those choices as humans; that they turn to destroying the one and only body they have for ultimately ephemeral and not-entirely-satisfying entertainment. i, as a hindu, refuse to be ashamed or concerned about the body of my religious community because of the actions of a subset of it. such a generalization carries dangerous implications. i'm pretty sure that most of the people here would agree that all Muslims are not terrorists, despite the way that that idea is often portrayed as fact by the conservative American media. the generalizations that allow one to come that clearly fallacious conclusion are also the ones that i see when i see someone slight sikhism, hinduism, or islam (or any other culture, for that matter) because of the actions of a small number of followers.

 

[himynameis]

All i have to say is i know a shitload of punjabis that dont speak a word of punjabi and they never go to the Gurudawara smh #GOKILLYOURSELF.

any gurudwara you go to you will either find ignorance, hypocrisy, or corruption. people ruin gurudwaras and everyone seems to have their own set of rules that they think everyone else should follow. i've become disenchanted with gurudwaras. buddhia gossiping like crazy and judging u doesnt make it better either. if people dont wanna go to gurudwara or speak punjabi thats their business just laugh at em when they try 2 represent themselves as punjabi sikhs.

Bro I agree completely with this but I go to a gurudawara to do paath I don't care what others people are doing or saying....the Gurudawara I go to is full of corruption I'm talking about fighting with chimtey over power. But that's them I go for myself... you don't take a shower to make someone else clean just as you don't go to a gurudawara to do someone else good

 

[himynameis]

All i have to say is i know a shitload of punjabis that dont speak a word of punjabi and they never go to the Gurudawara smh #GOKILLYOURSELF.

Going to Gurdwara is a requirement to be Punjabi?

In a way no. There are many hindu punjabis so Correction I know alot of Sikhs that don't goto the Gurudawara.. And if your sikh it's written in the Guru Granth sahib that each and every Sikh is to devote at least 24hrs a month to a Gurudawara doing seva so yea kinda is a requirement

 

[Ashveer]

All i have to say is i know a shitload of punjabis that dont speak a word of punjabi and they never go to the Gurudawara smh #GOKILLYOURSELF.

Going to Gurdwara is a requirement to be Punjabi?

In a way no. There are many hindu punjabis so Correction I know alot of Sikhs that don't goto the Gurudawara.. And if your sikh it's written in the Guru Granth sahib that each and every Sikh is to devote at least 24hrs a month to a Gurudawara doing seva so yea kinda is a requirement

What I was trying to poke fun at is the collapsing of "Punjabi" and "Sikh". You don't have to step foot into a Gurdwara to be Punjabi in the same way you don't have to step into a masjid, get darshan from an idol, or go to a Church to be Punjabi. There are Punjabi Muslims (Ahmadiyya/Sunni/Shia), Jains, Christians, Sikhs, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, people from tribal religions, etc. etc. etc. who shouldn't have to slot themselves into a religion to be considered properly Punjabi.

Also, can you please link us to the line of Gurbani where it says you have to go to seva in a Gurdwara for 24 hours a month to be Sikhs? I've never heard of the rule.

 

[monisingh]

All i have to say is i know a shitload of punjabis that dont speak a word of punjabi and they never go to the Gurudawara smh #GOKILLYOURSELF.

Going to Gurdwara is a requirement to be Punjabi?

In a way no. There are many hindu punjabis so Correction I know alot of Sikhs that don't goto the Gurudawara.. And if your sikh it's written in the Guru Granth sahib that each and every Sikh is to devote at least 24hrs a month to a Gurudawara doing seva so yea kinda is a requirement

What I was trying to poke fun at is the collapsing of "Punjabi" and "Sikh". You don't have to step foot into a Gurdwara to be Punjabi in the same way you don't have to step into a masjid, get darshan from an idol, or go to a Church to be Punjabi. There are Punjabi Muslims (Ahmadiyya/Sunni/Shia), Jains, Christians, Sikhs, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, people from tribal religions, etc. etc. etc. who shouldn't have to slot themselves into a religion to be considered properly Punjabi.

Also, can you please link us to the line of Gurbani where it says you have to go to seva in a Gurdwara for 24 hours a month to be Sikhs? I've never heard of the rule.

Can I just say that I have not been to a gurdwara or any form of a church in 3 months...

 

[HarmanSingh]

All i have to say is i know a shitload of punjabis that dont speak a word of punjabi and they never go to the Gurudawara smh #GOKILLYOURSELF.

Going to Gurdwara is a requirement to be Punjabi?

In a way no. There are many hindu punjabis so Correction I know alot of Sikhs that don't goto the Gurudawara.. And if your sikh it's written in the Guru Granth sahib that each and every Sikh is to devote at least 24hrs a month to a Gurudawara doing seva so yea kinda is a requirement

What I was trying to poke fun at is the collapsing of "Punjabi" and "Sikh". You don't have to step foot into a Gurdwara to be Punjabi in the same way you don't have to step into a masjid, get darshan from an idol, or go to a Church to be Punjabi. There are Punjabi Muslims (Ahmadiyya/Sunni/Shia), Jains, Christians, Sikhs, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, people from tribal religions, etc. etc. etc. who shouldn't have to slot themselves into a religion to be considered properly Punjabi.

Also, can you please link us to the line of Gurbani where it says you have to go to seva in a Gurdwara for 24 hours a month to be Sikhs? I've never heard of the rule.

+1, pretty sure you just made up the 24 hours of seva rule.

 

[himynameis]

All i have to say is i know a shitload of punjabis that dont speak a word of punjabi and they never go to the Gurudawara smh #GOKILLYOURSELF.

Going to Gurdwara is a requirement to be Punjabi?

In a way no. There are many hindu punjabis so Correction I know alot of Sikhs that don't goto the Gurudawara.. And if your sikh it's written in the Guru Granth sahib that each and every Sikh is to devote at least 24hrs a month to a Gurudawara doing seva so yea kinda is a requirement

What I was trying to poke fun at is the collapsing of "Punjabi" and "Sikh". You don't have to step foot into a Gurdwara to be Punjabi in the same way you don't have to step into a masjid, get darshan from an idol, or go to a Church to be Punjabi. There are Punjabi Muslims (Ahmadiyya/Sunni/Shia), Jains, Christians, Sikhs, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, people from tribal religions, etc. etc. etc. who shouldn't have to slot themselves into a religion to be considered properly Punjabi.

Also, can you please link us to the line of Gurbani where it says you have to go to seva in a Gurdwara for 24 hours a month to be Sikhs? I've never heard of the rule.

Yea well what I ment was sardars mostly ... But the 24hrs a month was told to me a person in India forgot the actual line itself but I'll be more than happy to find it. another thing It's not a rule that if you don't your not Sikh cause obviously your not going to get kicked out the religion itself. the true meaning behind the line was that a true Sikh does seva and takes out as much time for the Gurudawara that he can the 24hrs a month is in there somewhere but I'll post the actual line when I get home.

 

[Ashveer]

All i have to say is i know a shitload of punjabis that dont speak a word of punjabi and they never go to the Gurudawara smh #GOKILLYOURSELF.

Going to Gurdwara is a requirement to be Punjabi?

In a way no. There are many hindu punjabis so Correction I know alot of Sikhs that don't goto the Gurudawara.. And if your sikh it's written in the Guru Granth sahib that each and every Sikh is to devote at least 24hrs a month to a Gurudawara doing seva so yea kinda is a requirement

What I was trying to poke fun at is the collapsing of "Punjabi" and "Sikh". You don't have to step foot into a Gurdwara to be Punjabi in the same way you don't have to step into a masjid, get darshan from an idol, or go to a Church to be Punjabi. There are Punjabi Muslims (Ahmadiyya/Sunni/Shia), Jains, Christians, Sikhs, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, people from tribal religions, etc. etc. etc. who shouldn't have to slot themselves into a religion to be considered properly Punjabi.

Also, can you please link us to the line of Gurbani where it says you have to go to seva in a Gurdwara for 24 hours a month to be Sikhs? I've never heard of the rule.

Yea well what I ment was sardars mostly ... But the 24hrs a month was told to me a person in India forgot the actual line itself but I'll be more than happy to find it. another thing It's not a rule that if you don't your not Sikh cause obviously your not going to get kicked out the religion itself. the true meaning behind the line was that a true Sikh does seva and takes out as much time for the Gurudawara that he can the 24hrs a month is in there somewhere but I'll post the actual line when I get home.

I'm not trying to get nitty gritty with you but you have to have meant sardars only, otherwise you're absolutely wrong and for many absolutely offensive.

People in India and everywhere else say a lot of things about the SGGS and Sikhi, and you have to take it everything with a grain of salt. Something admirable about Sikhi is that there is no intermediary necessary between you and the divine. That's a big deal. When you find that line in the SGGS, I'll buy you a first class ticket to Darbar Sahib.

 

[Ashveer]

All i have to say is i know a shitload of punjabis that dont speak a word of punjabi and they never go to the Gurudawara smh #GOKILLYOURSELF.

Going to Gurdwara is a requirement to be Punjabi?

In a way no. There are many hindu punjabis so Correction I know alot of Sikhs that don't goto the Gurudawara.. And if your sikh it's written in the Guru Granth sahib that each and every Sikh is to devote at least 24hrs a month to a Gurudawara doing seva so yea kinda is a requirement

What I was trying to poke fun at is the collapsing of "Punjabi" and "Sikh". You don't have to step foot into a Gurdwara to be Punjabi in the same way you don't have to step into a masjid, get darshan from an idol, or go to a Church to be Punjabi. There are Punjabi Muslims (Ahmadiyya/Sunni/Shia), Jains, Christians, Sikhs, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, people from tribal religions, etc. etc. etc. who shouldn't have to slot themselves into a religion to be considered properly Punjabi.

Also, can you please link us to the line of Gurbani where it says you have to go to seva in a Gurdwara for 24 hours a month to be Sikhs? I've never heard of the rule.

Can I just say that I have not been to a gurdwara or any form of a church in 3 months...

Can I just say a gurdwara isn't a form of a church? Cmon broooo


Also Mods off-topic yeah?

 

[yraparla]

My thoughts:

I think the double standard, in this case for Sikhs but for any religion/culture/ethnicity, is a bit more troubling than the actions.

Why are you holding Sikhs to a higher standard? Because that's what you've been taught to do, that's what the culture is, that's how the history has been described. But like someone mentioned earlier...it's shortsighted. the previous generation has all sorts of problems as well, and lots of the gurudwara politics start from them. Back in the subcontinent, things are arguably worse.

This dissonance between the belief-system and our actions is just strengthened by self-selection of history. You remember Shaheeds, but do we learn lessons from the cowards and thieves and weak-minded? Our parents are not perfect. Their parents are not perfect. I see greater problems with all the chest pounding, khanda tatooing that goes around than the culture of competitions. The blind-belief that you are special/great because of your heritage is fundamental to any group, but ultimately causes more problems. Earn the pride lest it becomes arrogance. (and this btw goes for ANY community, this topic being about Sikh community is why I used those specific examples).

BTW and this is the real question....these comps were primarily college teams/colleged aged kids in the beginning, so I don't know why we would be surprised that the college culture of drinking/smoking pervades the comps? Seems irrational to hold people at competitions to a standard that isn't upheld on most weekends on most campuses. You could argue we represent a community at a comp, but I tried doing that many times and most people seem to disagree that our behavior should reflect the fact that we're performing a cultural dance

thoughts?

 

[monisingh]

All i have to say is i know a shitload of punjabis that dont speak a word of punjabi and they never go to the Gurudawara smh #GOKILLYOURSELF.

Going to Gurdwara is a requirement to be Punjabi?

In a way no. There are many hindu punjabis so Correction I know alot of Sikhs that don't goto the Gurudawara.. And if your sikh it's written in the Guru Granth sahib that each and every Sikh is to devote at least 24hrs a month to a Gurudawara doing seva so yea kinda is a requirement

What I was trying to poke fun at is the collapsing of "Punjabi" and "Sikh". You don't have to step foot into a Gurdwara to be Punjabi in the same way you don't have to step into a masjid, get darshan from an idol, or go to a Church to be Punjabi. There are Punjabi Muslims (Ahmadiyya/Sunni/Shia), Jains, Christians, Sikhs, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, people from tribal religions, etc. etc. etc. who shouldn't have to slot themselves into a religion to be considered properly Punjabi.

Also, can you please link us to the line of Gurbani where it says you have to go to seva in a Gurdwara for 24 hours a month to be Sikhs? I've never heard of the rule.

Can I just say that I have not been to a gurdwara or any form of a church in 3 months...

Can I just say a gurdwara isn't a form of a church? Cmon broooo


Also Mods off-topic yeah?

A place of worship, happy ?

 

[Ashveer]

All i have to say is i know a shitload of punjabis that dont speak a word of punjabi and they never go to the Gurudawara smh #GOKILLYOURSELF.

Going to Gurdwara is a requirement to be Punjabi?

In a way no. There are many hindu punjabis so Correction I know alot of Sikhs that don't goto the Gurudawara.. And if your sikh it's written in the Guru Granth sahib that each and every Sikh is to devote at least 24hrs a month to a Gurudawara doing seva so yea kinda is a requirement

What I was trying to poke fun at is the collapsing of "Punjabi" and "Sikh". You don't have to step foot into a Gurdwara to be Punjabi in the same way you don't have to step into a masjid, get darshan from an idol, or go to a Church to be Punjabi. There are Punjabi Muslims (Ahmadiyya/Sunni/Shia), Jains, Christians, Sikhs, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, people from tribal religions, etc. etc. etc. who shouldn't have to slot themselves into a religion to be considered properly Punjabi.

Also, can you please link us to the line of Gurbani where it says you have to go to seva in a Gurdwara for 24 hours a month to be Sikhs? I've never heard of the rule.

Yea well what I ment was sardars mostly ... But the 24hrs a month was told to me a person in India forgot the actual line itself but I'll be more than happy to find it. another thing It's not a rule that if you don't your not Sikh cause obviously your not going to get kicked out the religion itself. the true meaning behind the line was that a true Sikh does seva and takes out as much time for the Gurudawara that he can the 24hrs a month is in there somewhere but I'll post the actual line when I get home.

Home yet?

 

[hardeep_singh]

Home yet?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ya ive never heard of this 24 hrs a month deal, sounds like something a fake ass baba would tell u. only thing im aware of is "dasma hisa", not sure if that's specified anywhere but it seems like more of a recommendation for sikhs to donate a tenth of their earnings to charity

 

[Babbarsher]

.

every Sikh is to devote at least 24hrs a month to a Gurudawara doing seva so yea kinda is a requirement

Seva is not only done in the Gurudwara. It is done anywhere anytime.

 

[GSingh]

.

every Sikh is to devote at least 24hrs a month to a Gurudawara doing seva so yea kinda is a requirement

Seva is not only done in the Gurudwara. It is done anywhere anytime.

This! Volunteering at a homeless shelter is seva, helping out a community recovering from a natural disaster is seva, in essence, doing any selfless act for the betterment of society is seva.

 

[J Hayer]

sometimes "kachi bani" is also preached and many times believed to be from actual scripture (often but not limited to the credulity of us, youth)
so that may have been the case behind what hmni thought was accurate stuff... since I also have never heard of this 24 hour rule.

and yeah, a lot of people have mentioned the practice of tithing to me -- always thought it was just a recommendation (anyone know for sure?)

Home yet?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ya ive never heard of this 24 hrs a month deal, sounds like something a fake ass baba would tell u. only thing im aware of is "dasma hisa", not sure if that's specified anywhere but it seems like more of a recommendation for sikhs to donate a tenth of their earnings to charity

 

[hardeep_singh]

sometimes "kachi bani" is also preached and many times believed to be from actual scripture (often but not limited to the credulity of us, youth)
so that may have been the case behind what hmni thought was accurate stuff... since I also have never heard of this 24 hour rule.

and yeah, a lot of people have mentioned the practice of tithing to me -- always thought it was just a recommendation (anyone know for sure?)

Home yet?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ya ive never heard of this 24 hrs a month deal, sounds like something a fake ass baba would tell u. only thing im aware of is "dasma hisa", not sure if that's specified anywhere but it seems like more of a recommendation for sikhs to donate a tenth of their earnings to charity

if you think of yourself as a true sikh you should always be skeptical of anything you havent read in the SGGS, i'm just skeptical of everything, so def not a big fan of anyone preachin their own version, thats bad in my mind but whats worse is all the ignorant people that eat it up as if one of the Gurus themselves told em. fucking sheep. the dasma hisa i think comes from wayyy back in the day when the khalsa was established, i think people were asked to give a tenth of their earnings to help build gurudwaras and langar halls and to fund the khalsa, i believe masands were responsible for collecting these funds until people realized that the masands were pocketing some of the money (which is why the word masand has a negative connotation). i guess it's just a tradition passed down from the old days to donate a tenth of your earning to charity/langar.

hisa dasma kamayi vicho kad ke
anandpur sahib chaliyeeeee
nama leh liya truck teray yaar ne
babayia de chal chaliye

 

[Sohaj]

if you think of yourself as a true sikh you should always be skeptical of anything you havent read in the SGGS, i'm just skeptical of everything, so def not a big fan of anyone preachin their own version, thats bad in my mind but whats worse is all the ignorant people that eat it up as if one of the Gurus themselves told em. fucking sheep. the dasma hisa i think comes from wayyy back in the day when the khalsa was established, i think people were asked to give a tenth of their earnings to help build gurudwaras and langar halls and to fund the khalsa, i believe masands were responsible for collecting these funds until people realized that the masands were pocketing some of the money (which is why the word masand has a negative connotation). i guess it's just a tradition passed down from the old days to donate a tenth of your earning to charity/langar.

hisa dasma kamayi vicho kad ke
anandpur sahib chaliyeeeee
nama leh liya truck teray yaar ne
babayia de chal chaliye

Its called Dasvand. It was started by Guru Arjan Dev because of the rising costs of langar and Harmandir Sahib among other things. I am not sure why its exactly 10 percent. If anyone else does, please do share.

Also, I found it interesting that you would call someone "fucking sheep" when those same words can be used for anyone who believes in any religion.

 

[J Hayer]

I know you're talking about a lot of the uneducated folks that blindly follow religious leaders, but I think it's easier for some people to understand words and meanings interpreted by someone else rather than from sikh scripture, especially if they don't have a strong gurmukhi/punjabi background (and I don't mean the way a lot of us can converse fluently), in which case having someone explain views/stories/facts/etc can be helpful. obviously you shouldn't soak anything in without contemplating on it and it's our job as members of the community question and consider.-- not disagreeing with you, just saying it's tempting for a lot of folks since it's an easier way to learn stuff about their religion than asking and researching and find "arths" of words/etc

if you think of yourself as a true sikh you should always be skeptical of anything you havent read in the SGGS, i'm just skeptical of everything, so def not a big fan of anyone preachin their own version, thats bad in my mind but whats worse is all the ignorant people that eat it up as if one of the Gurus themselves told em. fucking sheep. the dasma hisa i think comes from wayyy back in the day when the khalsa was established, i think people were asked to give a tenth of their earnings to help build gurudwaras and langar halls and to fund the khalsa, i believe masands were responsible for collecting these funds until people realized that the masands were pocketing some of the money (which is why the word masand has a negative connotation). i guess it's just a tradition passed down from the old days to donate a tenth of your earning to charity/langar.

hisa dasma kamayi vicho kad ke
anandpur sahib chaliyeeeee
nama leh liya truck teray yaar ne
babayia de chal chaliye

 

[Ashveer]

if you think of yourself as a true sikh you should always be skeptical of anything you havent read in the SGGS, i'm just skeptical of everything, so def not a big fan of anyone preachin their own version, thats bad in my mind but whats worse is all the ignorant people that eat it up as if one of the Gurus themselves told em. fucking sheep. the dasma hisa i think comes from wayyy back in the day when the khalsa was established, i think people were asked to give a tenth of their earnings to help build gurudwaras and langar halls and to fund the khalsa, i believe masands were responsible for collecting these funds until people realized that the masands were pocketing some of the money (which is why the word masand has a negative connotation). i guess it's just a tradition passed down from the old days to donate a tenth of your earning to charity/langar.

hisa dasma kamayi vicho kad ke
anandpur sahib chaliyeeeee
nama leh liya truck teray yaar ne
babayia de chal chaliye

Its called Dasvand. It was started by Guru Arjan Dev because of the rising costs of langar and Harmandir Sahib among other things. I am not sure why its exactly 10 percent. If anyone else does, please do share.

Also, I found it interesting that you would call someone "fucking sheep" when those same words can be used for anyone who believes in any religion.

Re: "fucking sheep" that's probably not the best way to describe it, but I think Hardeep is referring to people who blindly follow babas, sants, etc. These guys simply appropriate the teachings of the SGGS and create cult followings and their followers, rather than empowering themselves with knowledge of the Guru, simply decide to follow the baba down the rabbit hole.

TRuTH oF BaBa DhinDRi {PaRT 1} DhaDriaN WaLa SaaDH} kalgi