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An Old Head's Proclamation

Saab

Today is a gift
Messages
991
To put in a thought...I know some of the posts on POL would rip into bhangra teams on trying new things and I think that instead of trying to criticize them I think we should embrace the idea of the "reincarnation" of bhangra by some teams. Its not a widespread phenomenon compared to going traditional, which seems to be saturating the audiences mind. What I think should happen is that creative/traditional medium should start happening and I think that's only going to happen if we not only teach bhangra the right way, but allow who we teach it too to also put in a little of their own interpretation and style, something that would benefit us all.
 

SunnyParmar

New Member
Messages
97
I haven't read all the posts but I this is what I think.

I've been dancing for 13 years. I mean way back when bhangra even in the lower mainland was just beginning to take off. As long as I did bhangra it was a 8 minute live routine. 4 minutes where we did actual formations. And 4 minutes of "individuals". Individuals were the sicked part. You would have guys jumping over khoondeh, doing one hand chakhri's, jumping bhangra squats while touching your toes with your hands, it was INSANE. These days theres no RISK in a live routine. No OMGGG THAT WAS SICK! Yeah everyone wants to do the moves right. But that doesn't mean you can't do crazy formations or unique idea's. When people do live routines there 8-10 minutes of whatever they saw off an India video. Some team's think that if you don't do live you're not doing bhangra. I haven't seen a guy jump over a khoonda in almost 2-3 years. I haven't seen anyone jump touch their toes. Or even an accomplished team to something AMAZING with live. At AVAP with BC cultural we attempted to do some unique things with our live...bhudha jhummar in a diagonal line with a domino effect. It got the crowd going enough to make me happy. But for example with Bulldog that just recently happend. There was one team called Apna Virsa. All live routine, they even did 16 beats of Jugni in a circle. They were absolutely boring and they didn't even do the moves right. Someone came up to me later on from another competitive team and was like "OMG Apna Virsa got ROBBED, they were SOOOOO Traditional they had to win." Not the case buddy.

If you're going to go live do something differant. Take some risks. Go back into the archives of bhangra and see the stuff they could do then.

One last thing...I remember there was one guy on my team who used to be able to do a chakhri with a khoonda in his hand. I've NEVER seen anyone else do it. And i don't even remember how he did it. let's see if theres an USTAD or someone SUPER knowledgeable who can show us how to do that on BTF.

here's the bhuddah jhummar diagonal line with a domino effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2jx3JsRQec (starts at 0:30)
 

Jeeti

New Member
Messages
974
Chakhri with a kunda in one hand? Thats not that...out there bro...unless we are somehow thinking of two different things...you just have to make sure u get enough momentum to start...once you get going quickly enough...one hand is more than enough to keep it going? The biggest problem is keeping the kunda as high as possible...it looks retarded if it starts to lower...its not easy, but its not unheard of...
 

Jeeti

New Member
Messages
974
Arjun brother...its essentially a leg sweep on the ground where your one leg is constantly going in circles and you have to keep lifting up your hands in order for ur leg to continue to go through? HAHAHA...thats the best I can do...maybe someone can explain it better...i think theres a "b boy term".."coffee grinder"..thats similar to it...watch this video at 1:34...this guys retarded, but thats what I think a chakri is unlesss I'm mistaken...doing it with one hand is not all that bad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOIjGvef90c
 

[Sher] Imran

Member
Messages
213
I've also seen chakri with a khunda where they DONT get low on the ground, rather the guy is standing up, the jumps as he swings the khunda underneath him.
 

Vic

Member
Messages
291
Bhangra Idols is a competition that tries to mix up traditional and modern bhangra.
Each team must have the following in their routines
- 1 30 - 2mins of live
- 3 different stunts in 3 different segments of their routine
- 1 creative prop
- Saaps, kundey and katos must be used by 4 ppl at the same time througought the routine

and there are other but i dont remember them off the top of my head.

I know there were some traditional teams which applied to Bhangra Idols, they did nt read the package LOL. the idols comittee informed them about these rules and those teams dropped out.

I think Idols is taking a huge step by doing this. It mixes both styles and makes the team realy thing outside their style. If a tradtitional has to do stunts and creative props... its like wtf do u do... and a more modern team has the task of performing live...

Jeet i should kiss the idols comittee ahahhaa
 

kinnell

*Account Deactivated*
Messages
2,159
Yo Vic, thanks for posting that. Perhaps that's where competitions should be heading these days? In a way, themed competitions could spark creativity in teams like no other.

Like imagine if a competition said "Use the letter S somewhere in your performance" - Teams could create some type of "S" stunt, "S" formation, "S" dance move..etc. Competitions could get quite interesting if they do something like that. I completely agree, Vic, that Idols took a huge step in doing that.
 

Hans

New Member
Messages
93
Am I the only one who reads something along the lines of "I'm too lazy to read other people's posts, but I want you to read mine" and then immediately ignores the rest of the post?

To add something constructive, I tend to agree with Jeeti's original thoughts, and I do think there's a relative lack of creativity in routines these days. I don't think the problem is solely traditional bhangra, because you can certainly be creative while maintaining a traditional style, but I do think the rise in popularity of traditional dancing has contributed a great deal because modern encourages more creativity by its nature. A lot of "traditional" performances I've seen borrow heavily from other traditional teams or videos from India that can be found on YouTube or elsewhere, and that's largely because most people probably don't have access to a resource like a proper coach who can teach them these things, so they have to go by what they find online.

That said, there have been and continue to be plenty of modern dances that lack creativity, and I tend to dislike those just as much as I dislike traditional dances that lack creativity.

Waleed, I like your hip hop analogy, and I think you can find similar examples in all kinds of arts (jazz, painting, film), but I'm not sure it applies perfectly here. Artists like Talib, Mos Def, and Common (who have sometimes been produced by Kanye, by the way) are about as distant from hip hop's African roots as KJ was, if not more. They're great artists, but there's a ton of creativity in their work, so I don't think they accurately represent the problem here, that I think Jeeti was getting at, which is that lack of creativity is a problem, not overemphasis on traditionality.
 

Vic

Member
Messages
291
I think theres a simple answer to all this.

If a team wants to be differernt they will go out of their way to incorporate something that makes them stand out from the others. If a team wants to be the same as everyone then thats up to them.

I think its safe to say that most creative teams are succussful in winning and making a reputation?

Creativity and risk taking is in the hands of the teams, not in the judges or the organizers of competitions. actually, like I stated before, competitions like idols have some power, and if a team wants to win they will be creative.

from my experience with idols, I will say it was fun yet stressfull to incorporate everything needed withing 8 minutes... but challanges are fun.. i would do it again in a second.... idols 2009 ;) ahhaaha
 

SunnyParmar

New Member
Messages
97
Vic said:
I know there were some traditional teams which applied to Bhangra Idols, they did nt read the package LOL. the idols comittee informed them about these rules and those teams dropped out.

I think Idols is taking a huge step by doing this. It mixes both styles and makes the team realy thing outside their style. If a tradtitional has to do stunts and creative props... its like wtf do u do... and a more modern team has the task of performing live...

Jeet i should kiss the idols comittee ahahhaa
Indeed that's a great point. Idol's was extremely fair and very well organized. Idol's rocks.
 

Saab

Today is a gift
Messages
991
I think everyones touching on things jeeti said in there own way. I think that the bhangra nation idea is a really good idea(the varied elements) and I think that for teams who cant get very good vocals you would just go live with katos, sups, etc. Other than that I dont think we should be subjected to monotonous dances(live that looks the same again) and should encourage teams to take risks by being creative while maintaining a traditional bhangra aspects.
 

NavDheri

New Member
Messages
223
Nav Dheri said:
Bhangraholic said:
To add onto Waleeds post,

Whenever there is a competition, I'll take my parents and they will sit through performances by Empire, Jawani, PDDS, Heeray, etc. No matter how graceful a team like Heeray is or their excution or how well their moves work compared to the song, my parents still walk out of the venue going WOW Empire was so great, did u see their stunts or how the girls switched shikke with the guys. It's slightly disheartening thinking that my parents and the general public find that more enjoyable than actual bhangra.
so your trying to say team like Empire don't do "actual" bhangra? Just because Empire doesn't do "traditional" bhangra...that's just ridiculous. I love traditional bhangra as much as any other person here and i love what Empire, Sher, DRP do too. Learn how to appreciate every style of bhangra. Traditional and Modern.
 

Jaskaran

New Member
Messages
66
Damn this a touchy subject

It's fine that modern bhangra exists, you can't stop it but the problem is a lot of teams don't know anything about traditional bhangra. I'm not gonna name teams because I have friends on every so-cal team but all these teams now these days leave out the essence of bhangra, grace. Bhangra is supposed to be graceful and elegant, with all these teams these days just bring crazy energy, intensity. Now im not saying you shouldnt have energy but when you don't have any grace left, and you've killed jhoomer, than you've taken everything away from bhangra. If that's all kids are exposed to and are never shown how bhangra started that's what they'll believe. Do you know how many kids out in So-Cal think that bhangra to a dhol is weird or lame? Little do they know that's where it all came from. It's not even about going LIVE at competitions, that helps but keeping your moves traditional. A lot of teams try to spice up their routine by changing the move and putting a twist in it and totally take the move out of context. Now, people will say what's wrong with doing that, the problem is that the original move is forgotten.

For my team, I'm from Fresno but I'm in school in So-Cal, I had to teach one person who danced on Punjabi Soormay to dance traditional and one from Sher Jr. It took a while because they totally move in a different way.

I respect what all teams do but a lot of teams don't know traditional bhangra, they know what they have seen and created. They don't know sammi, ludi, saal koti, etc etc. Go to any so cal team and ask people of those moves or any other moves OTHER than jhoomer they probably don't know whats what. But if you ask teams like Gabroo Shokeen, Gabroo Punjabis, Heeray etc, they know what they are doing. And you can def. spot what teams go live to get points and which ones are going live because they have passion for it.

That's why I started JATT, to promote tradition hopefully spark something :p

just my opinion, peacess
 

Arjun Barua

Member
Messages
650
Nav Dheri said:
Bhangraholic said:
To add onto Waleeds post,

Whenever there is a competition, I'll take my parents and they will sit through performances by Empire, Jawani, PDDS, Heeray, etc. No matter how graceful a team like Heeray is or their excution or how well their moves work compared to the song, my parents still walk out of the venue going WOW Empire was so great, did u see their stunts or how the girls switched shikke with the guys. It's slightly disheartening thinking that my parents and the general public find that more enjoyable than actual bhangra.
so your trying to say team like Empire don't do "actual" bhangra? Just because Empire doesn't do "traditional" bhangra...that's just ridiculous. I love traditional bhangra as much as any other person here and i love what Empire, Sher, DRP do too. Learn how to appreciate every style of bhangra. Traditional and Modern.
Moderator's Note: Nav, it's possible that Bhangraholic was merely saying that he doesn't consider stunts and switching shikke to be "actual bhangra." He might mean that Empire does do "actual bhangra," but also other things in the routine that he doesn't consider "actual bhangra."
 
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