Behavior at Competitions

[dheerja]

Dear bhangra community,


This has been brought up time and time again on this forum, and we've all struggled with these issues for a while. But after this past weekend at Motor City Bhangra, I want to have a real discussion about change.


Every single person here has seen or heard of the crap that occurs during competition weekends. Hotel rooms destroyed, fire alarms pulled, people being harassed, fights breaking out in the lobby. It's jarring, but at the same time we've adopted a jaded mentality towards this behavior. We chalk it up to certain teams or groupies, and resign ourselves to the fact that things will never change. I'm absolutely guilty of this, even though I've seen this behavior only get increasingly worse as teams get younger and the lack of respect or values spreads.


I could sit here and relate to you hundreds of stories over my 9 years in the bhangra circuit. But this past weekend, I reached my limit. I'll keep this story short because the details are irrelevant and will only cause people to focus on this instance, when there are countless other similar cases.


On Saturday night after the MCB after party, we were hanging out with our team only in one of our rooms at the hotel. Two drunk guys showed up on our floor and proceeded to verbally abuse the 13 girls present, saying things that I've never heard out of someone's mouth and couldn't bring myself to type here. As we tried to get them to leave, one of them punched a female dancer straight in the face.


While this by far isn't the first time I've seen violence at a bhangra competition, it's the first time I've seen real violence against a woman. I woke up in the morning to see DCMPAA checking out of the hotel and wanted to tell those young girls to stop dancing. Bhangra competitions are no longer a safe place for anyone. Our art form is being represented in this violent manner, and as venues and hotels continue to experience this behavior, we'll start to lose the opportunity to perform. How can we sit here and accept this as inevitable?


I'm coming to you, the bhangra community, to demand action, and I'm ready to lead this change. The discussion is ripe right now, so let's take advantage of that momentum and stop things before the bhangra scene continues down this path. Here is my plan:


1) Bhangra Pulse - A new Bhangra Pulse episode will be coming out this weekend where Sulman and I honestly discuss this issue and what we can do to change things.


2) Call to Action Video - I'm making a video over the next two months, interviewing teams, community members, and competition organizers to hear their experiences and what they think we can do to change. I'm starting in the NYC area and will be at Bhangra in the Bell, contact me if you're interested in participating. There is so much that happens that we don't even know about, and getting all these in one place will be a starting point.


3) Polling Organizers - I'm forming an action committee to help me with this endeavor. Firstly, we'll reach out to ALL competition organizers to anonymously poll them on monetary damage, consequences from hotels, whether they plan to continue hosting competitions, and what we as a community can do to stop this. If you're interested in being a part of this, please contact me.


4) Petition - The impetus needs to come from the teams first. We need to band together and form a petition for ALL competitions to institute a zero tolerance policy. Teams should be banned and money withheld for bad behavior and better security should be provided throughout the weekend. If necessary, cancel after parties and stop providing alcohol since clearly people can't handle themselves in these circumstances.


Some of you will tell me this is futile, and perhaps it is. But as a community we need to make every effort we can to make this a safe place, or we will lose the opportunity to participate in the art form we all love.

 

[Saab]

Dear bhangra community,


This has been brought up time and time again on this forum, and we've all struggled with these issues for a while. But after this past weekend at Motor City Bhangra, I want to have a real discussion about change.


Every single person here has seen or heard of the crap that occurs during competition weekends. Hotel rooms destroyed, fire alarms pulled, people being harassed, fights breaking out in the lobby. It's jarring, but at the same time we've adopted a jaded mentality towards this behavior. We chalk it up to certain teams or groupies, and resign ourselves to the fact that things will never change. I'm absolutely guilty of this, even though I've seen this behavior only get increasingly worse as teams get younger and the lack of respect or values spreads.


I could sit here and relate to you hundreds of stories over my 9 years in the bhangra circuit. But this past weekend, I reached my limit. I'll keep this story short because the details are irrelevant and will only cause people to focus on this instance, when there are countless other similar cases.


On Saturday night after the MCB after party, we were hanging out with our team only in one of our rooms at the hotel. Two drunk guys showed up on our floor and proceeded to verbally abuse the 13 girls present, saying things that I've never heard out of someone's mouth and couldn't bring myself to type here. As we tried to get them to leave, one of them punched a female dancer straight in the face.


While this by far isn't the first time I've seen violence at a bhangra competition, it's the first time I've seen real violence against a woman. I woke up in the morning to see DCMPAA checking out of the hotel and wanted to tell those young girls to stop dancing. Bhangra competitions are no longer a safe place for anyone. Our art form is being represented in this violent manner, and as venues and hotels continue to experience this behavior, we'll start to lose the opportunity to perform. How can we sit here and accept this as inevitable?


I'm coming to you, the bhangra community, to demand action, and I'm ready to lead this change. The discussion is ripe right now, so let's take advantage of that momentum and stop things before the bhangra scene continues down this path. Here is my plan:


1) Bhangra Pulse - A new Bhangra Pulse episode will be coming out this weekend where Sulman and I honestly discuss this issue and what we can do to change things.


2) Call to Action Video - I'm making a video over the next two months, interviewing teams, community members, and competition organizers to hear their experiences and what they think we can do to change. I'm starting in the NYC area and will be at Bhangra in the Bell, contact me if you're interested in participating. There is so much that happens that we don't even know about, and getting all these in one place will be a starting point.


3) Polling Organizers - I'm forming an action committee to help me with this endeavor. Firstly, we'll reach out to ALL competition organizers to anonymously poll them on monetary damage, consequences from hotels, whether they plan to continue hosting competitions, and what we as a community can do to stop this. If you're interested in being a part of this, please contact me.


4) Petition - The impetus needs to come from the teams first. We need to band together and form a petition for ALL competitions to institute a zero tolerance policy. Teams should be banned and money withheld for bad behavior and better security should be provided throughout the weekend. If necessary, cancel after parties and stop providing alcohol since clearly people can't handle themselves in these circumstances.


Some of you will tell me this is futile, and perhaps it is. But as a community we need to make every effort we can to make this a safe place, or we will lose the opportunity to participate in the art form we all love.

+1000

I am so down to do this. It is pretty incredible how some competitions manage to keep functioning despite the fact that competition weekends can end up being so crazy and so much damage ensues.

 

[roohinor]

Dear bhangra community,


This has been brought up time and time again on this forum, and we've all struggled with these issues for a while. But after this past weekend at Motor City Bhangra, I want to have a real discussion about change.


Every single person here has seen or heard of the crap that occurs during competition weekends. Hotel rooms destroyed, fire alarms pulled, people being harassed, fights breaking out in the lobby. It's jarring, but at the same time we've adopted a jaded mentality towards this behavior. We chalk it up to certain teams or groupies, and resign ourselves to the fact that things will never change. I'm absolutely guilty of this, even though I've seen this behavior only get increasingly worse as teams get younger and the lack of respect or values spreads.


I could sit here and relate to you hundreds of stories over my 9 years in the bhangra circuit. But this past weekend, I reached my limit. I'll keep this story short because the details are irrelevant and will only cause people to focus on this instance, when there are countless other similar cases.


On Saturday night after the MCB after party, we were hanging out with our team only in one of our rooms at the hotel. Two drunk guys showed up on our floor and proceeded to verbally abuse the 13 girls present, saying things that I've never heard out of someone's mouth and couldn't bring myself to type here. As we tried to get them to leave, one of them punched a female dancer straight in the face.


While this by far isn't the first time I've seen violence at a bhangra competition, it's the first time I've seen real violence against a woman. I woke up in the morning to see DCMPAA checking out of the hotel and wanted to tell those young girls to stop dancing. Bhangra competitions are no longer a safe place for anyone. Our art form is being represented in this violent manner, and as venues and hotels continue to experience this behavior, we'll start to lose the opportunity to perform. How can we sit here and accept this as inevitable?


I'm coming to you, the bhangra community, to demand action, and I'm ready to lead this change. The discussion is ripe right now, so let's take advantage of that momentum and stop things before the bhangra scene continues down this path. Here is my plan:


1) Bhangra Pulse - A new Bhangra Pulse episode will be coming out this weekend where Sulman and I honestly discuss this issue and what we can do to change things.


2) Call to Action Video - I'm making a video over the next two months, interviewing teams, community members, and competition organizers to hear their experiences and what they think we can do to change. I'm starting in the NYC area and will be at Bhangra in the Bell, contact me if you're interested in participating. There is so much that happens that we don't even know about, and getting all these in one place will be a starting point.


3) Polling Organizers - I'm forming an action committee to help me with this endeavor. Firstly, we'll reach out to ALL competition organizers to anonymously poll them on monetary damage, consequences from hotels, whether they plan to continue hosting competitions, and what we as a community can do to stop this. If you're interested in being a part of this, please contact me.


4) Petition - The impetus needs to come from the teams first. We need to band together and form a petition for ALL competitions to institute a zero tolerance policy. Teams should be banned and money withheld for bad behavior and better security should be provided throughout the weekend. If necessary, cancel after parties and stop providing alcohol since clearly people can't handle themselves in these circumstances.


Some of you will tell me this is futile, and perhaps it is. But as a community we need to make every effort we can to make this a safe place, or we will lose the opportunity to participate in the art form we all love.

Thanks for starting this post, Dheerja.

Honestly, all I have to say is that if you're going to show up to a place where people come to dance, have fun, be with friends and family, and pursue such violent tactics then a team ban needs to start taking place. IMO, this has happened so damn much that whoever these people are and whatever teams they are affiliated with need a bigger hint to make them stop acting in such moronic ways.

Why you think it's okay to inflict pain upon a person for whatever reason is NOT OKAY. If you're upset about the critiquing, or placing, have a conversation with the individual, there is NO reason to get violent for ANY reason; and to go off on a group of girls and shout obscenities? Really? This honestly really pains me to see this happening still...

All in all, I strongly believe these people/teams need to be banned, if you're going to go to these places and hurt someone you don't deserve to ever, EVER come back.

 

[J-Skeet]

As we tried to get them to leave, one of them punched a female dancer straight in the face.

Specifically point out who they were and address them as such. I think this should be first on your to-do list. Actually do something..carry out some punishment set some example.

 

[dheerja]

As we tried to get them to leave, one of them punched a female dancer straight in the face.

Specifically point out who they were and address them as such. I think this should be first on your to-do list. Actually do something..carry out some punishment set some example.

Absolutely agree - charges are being pressed and we're handling this specific case in conjunction with the hotel.

The purpose of my post is to look forward at the broader picture, since this is only one instance of many.

 

[Saleem]

Huge +1. It's ridiculous and shameful that these stories of drunken violence and damage are so common. Thanks for getting this thread started, Dheerja.

 

[J Wong]

Of the 20+ competitions I have competed/attended at I can say this is a common occurrence: hotel destruction, fights, verbal abuse, and a blatant disregard for hotel staff and other guests and in most cases it will either end with the hotel banning the competition or teams being evicted (e.g. Elite 2012). People need to learn to control themselves and it is possible (shan-e, joshiley, unc, vcu, etc). Even if I am heavily intoxicated I have enough sense to know when to shut up and not to pick fights, but then again everyone is different. What people need to learn is that you go to a bhangra competition, ideally, to preserve the roots and represent punjabi culture, not to get drunk at an after party (while nowadays punjabi culture has somewhat become this that is a separate issue).


Also, I dont think one can pin it on "younger teams" as Furteelay is an example of a properly behaved and humble team of younger dancers, I think it has more to do with maturity, which, unfortunately, needs to come from the dancers themselves.


Perhaps if a team is found to have started a situation (massive fight, fire alarm pulling, etc) their placing should be stripped from them?

 

[faizan]

Competitions just need to make sure that teams are safe. That means more security at the hotel after the after party.


Thanks for having the balls to start this thread D.

 

[J Wong]

Faizan, maybe WBBC can be the first to set an example?

 

[DamanSingh]

What people need to learn is that you go to a bhangra competition, ideally, to preserve the roots and represent punjabi culture, not to get drunk at an after party (while nowadays punjabi culture has somewhat become this that is a separate issue).

+1

 

[Basim]

Thanks for the post on this Dheerja. It's something that has been discussed many times on the forum and I'm all for the "fight against chaotic Bhangra" (no pun intended). Let me know if I can help in any way.

One thing that I've always wanted to see within the Bhangra circuit during my time following it (which is a LONG time), is to have an "umbrella organization" that can assist all competitions with various things and uphold basic guidlines for team behavior. I would love to be part of this effort if there is any interest from competition organizers or the bhangra community to execute this idea.

What I feel competitions should do (for their own sake & to set an "example" as J-Skeet pointed out) is publically announce the people causing the disturbance and make sure there is appropriate action being taken. One such competition that I felt who did an excellent job with this was Bhangra Idols (http://bhangraidols.com/ethics.html). I wish other competitions would follow the same lines and make sure issues get resolved, so they never happen again the those at fault truly "learn a lesson."

As always, reach out to me if I can help provide any ideas or assistance in any matter.

~ Basim

 

[faizan]

WBBC has one goal: give the bhangra circuit and the audience what it wants.


Look for us to implement a strict code of conduct. Ask and you shall receive.

 

[MotorCityBhangra]

Dheerja, I am very glad that you brought this up because I was going to do that today anyways. I started dancing at Khalsa college Amritsar and that is where you find out what Bhangra is all about and how you need to respect not only the dance but everything that is associated with the dance. My passion towards Bhangra is what made me organize this competition thinking that Bhangra has given me so much and it is time to give it back. My thoughts while organizing this competition was that I will get to meet a lot of people who share the same passion and respect towards Bhangra that I do and who works so hard to keep our Tradition alive. But after this competition it all came to an end. I was so hurt looking at what the teams did at the hotel. We paid for the whole Hotel out of our own pocket because being a dancer myself I know that it is very hard on people's pockets to pay for teh accomodations but some teams took advantage of it.

This is just not acceptable that you come to a competition and behave like that. its nice to have fun and enjoy specially after all that hard work but destroying stuff in the Hotel is just not acceptable. We want to let you know that since we book the Hotel and paid for everything. The Hotel people are charging us for everything (including people who check out early due to noise complaints and all the damages that occured). I was surprised to see that these are the same people that I thought love Bhangra and love to compete when I saw them leaving like that. People staying in the Hotel was cussing and yelling at everyone because they were so drunk to care. This really hurts because through this competition I wanted people to love our dance and tradition instead they hated to be around us. The worst part is the incident that Dheerja talked about. The guy that came in and caused everything was not from any team and did not have a hotel room booked. As a committee it is really hard to stop people who are not with a team coming into the Hotel because you don't know if they have a room booked or not but we have found out who that guy is and are taking strict actions towards that guy. As far as the damages are concerned a couple of teams really stood out than the others when it came to creating problems and damaging Hotel property so we will be taking strict actions towards them. I do not want to name any teams but I want to let you know that you know who you are and if you are a placing team at my competition the money that the Hotel will charge us for all these damages will be deducted out of your prize money.

This is the way I think is to teach you guys that we work so hard to make this competition happen. Coming to the competition do not give you a right to Hit a girl, disprect the committee or damage any Hotel property.
At the end I just want to say that If you don't respect Bhangra and everything associated with it. Please do not call yourself a dancer.
Thank You
Gary Khehra

 

[Kaur]

Can anything be done if its after the competition is over? Teams get into fight all the time it's nothing new and also isn't something which will change . If they are fighting during the show, mixer etc that's different but other then that we are here to judge their bhangra not what they do off the clock, their personalities etc.

Just because you're a bunch of hooligans that doesn't take away from their talent and what they can do with those 8min I mean if you're psycho who wants to bust people's heads open and get arrested all power to you, you can deal with consequences from the law.

This is not in defense if NJ but just a general opinion. A fight happens at every comp, sometimes organizers end up paying the price (hotel damage etc) but not much can be done. People suggest banning teams but it never happens.

Harkiran - as someone who teaches bhangra to youth I'm appalled at this laissez-faire attitude you have towards violence at competitions. I look at teams like DCMPAA who have young girls on the team and want to tell them to stop dancing so they aren't exposed to the awful behavior in the bhangra scene that is only getting progressively worse. As a community it IS our responsibility to make competition weekends a safe place for everyone, whether it's at the show, after party, or back in the hotel.

There are certain people who will get drunk and act a certain way not only at competitions but anywhere. We don't know who has a rowdy personality, who drinks too much and now drugs are a norm at competitions. What's worked for us and what I tell the team is to mind your business and don't get involved. Iam not saying its ok but when I have 16yr olds with me a competition I have to keep them safe and out of trouble.

I know Notorious had a rule of no alchohal and teams were considering dropping out because of that.

I think the main culprit is competitions because they keep accepting the same teams over and over again even if they have caused problems the year before. Iam assuming they are concerned with how strong their lineup is. I know a team was banned from most competiitons in California but continued to compete under a different name.
Iam on board and it would be great to walk into a competition and there not be violence, let me know if you need any help

 

[Romy]

Great post and thank you Dheerja for being the person to bring this to light. I fully support you in your endeavor and I will gladly get VIBC on board to help you in any way possible.

 

[mafzal]

But how often are the instigators even involved in the circuit? Am I mistaken or is a lot of the fighting from groupies/"local goons"?

The guys in this case were not dancers or part of any team (one was dating a girl who performed... that is the only relation). Neither have ever been on a team or anything...

I think it's a bigger problem... I do commend you for what you are doing though it is a positive step - I just hope it can reach outside the bhangra community?

what happened at MCB was RIDICULOUS to a new level that i never could have imagined

 

[Ashveer]

Am I mistaken or is a lot of the fighting from groupies/"local goons"?

I know this has been a huge problem in the Bay historically. DDA 2006(?) after party was a total meltdown in this vein. I believe someone's skull got cracked at Stanford's now defunct Bhangra by the Bay.

 

[yraparla]

But how often are the instigators even involved in the circuit? Am I mistaken or is a lot of the fighting from groupies/"local goons"?

The guys in this case were not dancers or part of any team (one was dating a girl who performed... that is the only relation). Neither have ever been on a team or anything...

I think it's a bigger problem... I do commend you for what you are doing though it is a positive step - I just hope it can reach outside the bhangra community?

what happened at MCB was RIDICULOUS to a new level that i never could have imagined

I would say in my experience the past year it's been primarily groupies or even just random people at competitions (that hasn't always been the case though). It's tough to ask teams to control/police friends and groupies since half the team may not even know the random guy and bhangra popularity has exploded....

I honestly think solution is to make competitions about the teams again. BBC always does an excellent job of this. Teams are in one hotel, mixer/afterparty are in hotel and you dont' get in if you're not rostered. This makes it much more about the teams and meeting and forming friendships than a lot of places. This also gives competitions more control to monitor what's going on and respond in the interest of teams (again, BBC does a great job of going to team rooms that have complaints and handling it without hotel and police involvement, and I think teams respect that and are a little nicer).

It comes down to competitions fostering an atmosphere and protecting their brand. period. You want to use a hotel again? Book rooms for teams, anyone not in a competition room is not part of the competition, period. Work it out with the staff (a 20 to the custodial staff goes a long way to getting info) and patrol your rooms. It's unfair that comps have to do this, but if they start then teams will follow suit.

 

[faizan]

Turbo, the prodigal son returns.

 

[Saleem]

I got respect for people like Kinnell who have the balls to state what needs to be stated. Too bad the rest of us are not like him. And good job BTF moderators. Deleting his post was crucial because of course, we can't have people knowing a top tier team was acting like little bitches. We gotta keep kissing their ass.

Turbo, I agree with what you said re: the competition.

FYI no one deleted Kinnell's post. It was split and given its own thread, as we always try to do when the conversation veers hard to another direction http://bhangrateamsforum.com/discuss/main-bhangra-discussion/re-nj-live-saap-segment-mcb-side-stage-hd/

I personally believe that kowtowing to any team that is violent and that causes damage to people or property, out of respect of "them as dancers", is bullshit and they should be named and shamed. And should not be invited to the next competition a month later, after it seems everyone has forgotten.