Bhangra competition graveyard

[Psant]

The more people engaging in bhangra and showcasing it, the better right?

Agree with what you have to say, but the issue is not whether people are getting involved in the dance, the issue is, if that is so with what you said, then why are there so many empty seats at competitions in the audience? Why are so many prestigious competitions from years past so few now? Having so many teams and people join doesn't necessarily imply the competition will be enjoyable to watch. There's hardly any innovation, all these new teams are doing the same thing. There is no collective movement to create new moves or showcase different styles; all teams now want to do it in a clear cut way to get that trophy and party it up after, which is fine i guess but doesn't really create the excitement like years past.

I think there are empty seats because there are more competitions to go to in every geographic region. Thus, people don't all flock to a single giant competition like Blowout anymore. If you look at the total number of people attending any sort of competition in general though, I'm sure the numbers are pretty similar.


The lack of innovation definitely comes from the "win-first" mentality, which is directly a result of how competitions are judged. There are plenty of creative things that teams want to do, but they're scared that they'll lose as a result for being "too risky." After all, a team is dumping a ton of money on vardi, props, registration fees, hotel fees, transportation, etc. Not to mention, hours per week perfecting a set. It's only natural that they'll figure out what it takes to win, and do that. It's not the teams' fault, it's the competitions fault.

 

[sumeetj]

i agree with cherag and psant. and fiazan and aman. and prolly other people i forgot who elses posts i quickly read (hopefully im not misreading things like i been doin lately lolz)

 

[nkrishnan]

Interesting parallel has happened in the rap industry. Back when there was east coast-west coast rivalry and more feud between rappers (Biggie vs. Pac, 50 vs. Kanye, Nas vs. Jay-Z, etc.) the industry produced some of the best music it ever has. After that era ended the industry became relatively quiet and music began sounding somewhat homogenous with artists putting out the same records they knew would be successful. That's why Kendrick lamar's "Control" verse shook everything up so much, basically telling everyone they lost that drive

Anyway, just thought it was an interesting parallel to this conversation

I was never around for era of rivalries, but I have to say I still have a lot of fun doing bhangra. I think, however, that the way competitions are set up makes people more risk averse with their sets. Out of the box thinking more likely than not come off as non-traditional and points are taken off. Also, I think that the bar has also just been set really high, which is also great. Back in the day, having a box do a full rotation was a wow moment. Now when people do that it's common place. It takes a person to literally come out of the ceiling with a dhol to wow people

 

[faizan]

Its feeling like rap changed, there was a time it was rugged.
Back when if a ***** reached it was for the weapon.
Nowadays *****s reach, just to sell they record

 

[KaraN]

I NEVER post but this thread has urged me to write a few words....
I agree with what my teammates(Faiz, Gurbir, Aman and Ankush) were alluding to.

I remember there was a time where I solely went to Punjab in 2008 just to watch the Worlds Bhangra Competition, that fire i feel like has been lost.

Ask faizan I come up with the sickest choreo, for what? For myself. I love bhangra. I just feel like the love has been lost, its been lost in a mirage...

I have teams from Australia and England asking me to make mixes for them and i feel the same passion in them that i felt in 08 with my squad. Maybe so many complications and complex rules and modern folk w.e isn't really that necessary..I feel like there was such a push to make bhangra into a Sport, that we forgot its a DANCE and just got too damn serious with it.

As long as I will live Bhangra will live, but sadly so many people have killed bhangra with their false intentions that it's gonna take something special to bring that PASSION back into the circuit.

This is where bhangra needs a full timeout to figure itself out...

P.S. Im still up for a Virsa Vs AEG...and i know all my old school dudes from both teams would be down too...i miss the rivalry

 

[KaraN]

I promote bhangra all day in all ways because i love it...and people wanting to do bhangra jus for street cred n gettin girls and all that fucked up the circuit..and what i meant with something special was that a miracle is needed to bring the old mentality back..cuz even with many attempts at bringing it back..it just isnt there anymore...i hope that clears it up Karn..(the right way of spellin my name) lol

 

[RsKderpu]

I promote bhangra all day in all ways because i love it...and people wanting to do bhangra jus for street cred n gettin girls and all that fucked up the circuit

Now a days, that's what most of the younger generation wants/sees. Growing up, they want to join teams and do bhangra, not for the passion, but for the partying/chicks/fun. The passion to do bhangra is slowly fading

 

[campy614]

I promote bhangra all day in all ways because i love it...and people wanting to do bhangra jus for street cred n gettin girls and all that fucked up the circuit

Now a days, that's what most of the younger generation wants/sees. Growing up, they want to join teams and do bhangra, not for the passion, but for the partying/chicks/fun. The passion to do bhangra is slowly fading

I don't know if I necessarily agree. If they just wanted to party, then it's not like there's a lack of partying/girls/booze outside of bhangra - especially in college. At that age if I wanted to get drunk/get ass, all I had to do was knock on my neighbor's door. I don't think it's the main driver for people to join the scene, but it's a side factor.

I think Karthik was onto something with his original post - but I can't help but think that, in general, 2013 was just a dud of a year competition-wise. And you have plenty of teams ready and waiting for a venue to show their stuff and bring something new to the table. As someone said earlier - any new competitions that want to claim relevance, now's the time to do so.

And in regards to placings and judges - in 200?-2010, there were a good amount of judges with different ideas on bhangra and style. I can't help but think that this also fostered both variety and creativity, in the sense that captains had to come up with their best ideas to impress these people - whether it was Pammi Bai or some random aunty who teaches bollywood in Edison, NJ. Back then we all argued that the latter isn't qualified. Little did we know that the mix added a little drama to the equation. Not only were we competitive with our rivals, we were competitive with ourselves to figure out what would get us top prize.

But that all changed - comps brought together judges who were qualified... but between them there was little to no variety in style. Teams are then selected based on who is actually competitive - teams who follow the formula (saaps, dangs, jhummar, phumaniyan, dhamaal, jugni, ending - traditionality all around - gimmick or "something to entertain the crowd when they're on the brink of boredom). And with potentially thousands of dollars on the line, what team captain is going to put themselves in a position where they're not competitive? That's not to say that competing teams weren't able to forge ahead with some innovation. But the formula remains strongly intact.

All this leads to team captains and dancers with probably hundreds of ideas... which just won't place. I'm patiently waiting for a team that says "Fuck this. Fuck placing. We're gunna do our own shit"... but if they dont follow the formula, they aren't competitive and won't be shown (especially in the literally handful of comps that even happened in 2013). And they'll be in the same spot they're in now - sitting around their team captain's dorm room/apartment thinking of amazing ideas and waiting for an actual venue where they can not only showcase them, but potentially be rewarded.

It seems to be a never ending, ugly circle - at least for 2013. I hope 2014 brings about change.

 

[SGupta7]

I promote bhangra all day in all ways because i love it...and people wanting to do bhangra jus for street cred n gettin girls and all that fucked up the circuit

Now a days, that's what most of the younger generation wants/sees. Growing up, they want to join teams and do bhangra, not for the passion, but for the partying/chicks/fun. The passion to do bhangra is slowly fading

I hope that's not true. I started doing bhangra as a sophomore in college (just two years ago) on a whim. I instantly fell in love with it and what i've noticed is that whenever we get new members at the beginning of the year they are so hype to be on the team. They come to all the extra practices, they want to come to all of the competitions even if they're not dancing. Half of our new kids this year are driving up on their own to tdot on Saturday just to watch our competitive team perform. They're not getting reimbursed by the school or anything, they're just stuffing themselves into a couple cars just because they love bhangra so much already.


The passion is still there, we're all just so far removed from the feeling that we got when we walked into practice for the first time or when we finally learned how to bounce our shoulders on beat haha

 

[Gsimz]

Bhangra Fusion

 

[mrchicity]

Bhangra Fusion

RIP

 

[Saleem]

Prior to 2008, teams hardly ever used saaps/daangs or any other props in their routines. Then around 2009, props made their way into the routines.

This thread is a great discussion but I just wanted to quickly point out this is factually incorrect.

Cheers,
Old Man Saleem

 

[Sue Sylvester]

Bhangra All-Stars

 

[DGoraya]

Prior to 2008, teams hardly ever used saaps/daangs or any other props in their routines. Then around 2009, props made their way into the routines.

This thread is a great discussion but I just wanted to quickly point out this is factually incorrect.

Cheers,
Old Man Saleem

how is that incorrect? Before around 2008, saaps werent as big as they are today. Some teams used them, some teams didnt. For teams that did use them, the saap part wasnt as complex as it now. Now days, it would be crazy to not have saap segment in a routine.

 

[Sue Sylvester]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Perhaps, there really is no problem. Only, a problem in our perception of reality. Or, perhaps a problem in my perception in y'all perception of reality.[/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Scenario 1.[/font]
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Imagine a circle. Call it bhangra. Tell teams to innovate, think outside the (circular) box and push the boundaries. Teams do that and while they stay for the most part within the circle, they've pushed out a bit more in different directions. [/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Now, turn around and tell them that they're no longer doing bhangra, tell them that "at least, my team stayed in the real circle" and then lament that no one truly risks leaving the circle.[/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Alternately, tell teams that your direction is the real way to venture outside the circle and any other direction magically transports you into the fusion square. Then, once all teams are going the same direction, complain that teams look all the same.[/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Scenario 2.[/font]
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Imagine 10 plants. One is really tall, the rest are "fun-sized". You start measuring the plants every day. Clearly, the tall one is dominating the rest. Now, provide these plants with the necessary sunlight, water and a Cross Fit gym membership. [/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Now, the short plants start getting taller. Some of them just as tall as the original tall one, who is a bit taller than before. Hell, on somedays, one or two of the short ones even best the tall one. There's no more domination anymore because a lot of plants are getting taller and domination is a matter of relativity. [/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Tall one gets caught throwing a hissy fit because it can't believe that some of the plants who were seeds when it was dominating got taller than them. Tall one blames the measuring tape which was made in Gujarat.[/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Remember, plants cannot get infinitely taller. There is a limit on how tall you can get, just like back in the day, when teams were messier, it was easier for teams that practiced harder and smarter to get an edge on them. With the advent of technology that is readily available to everyone, teams can get to a higher level of cleanliness to the discrepancy between a very clean team and a clean team is significantly less than what it use to be. [/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Scenario 3.[/font]
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Imagine you have 5 friends. And you guys keep going to one of 3 hype clubs every weekend. You've known these friends forever and you've made some epic memories with them. Eventually, 1 or 2 of your friends move away and a club closes down. Even though there are other people who could be just as good as friends as your original friends and there are other clubs that could be as hype, you feel like your social life is on the downward spiral. Occasionally, a new person goes out of their way to make themselves known to you and a new club finds ways to reach out to you, but everything gets compared to your original 5 friends and those memories at those 3 clubs. Interestingly enough, a new young person comes in with their new 5 friends and their choice of 3 favorite clubs, having never known your original 5 friends the way you did but they are happy because while they heard of them, they never really knew them the same way or got to see them in person.[/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Re: Rivalries[/font]
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Personally, I don't think there is a lack of "shit-talking" or "rivalries" or that even if it has declined, it is responsible for a decline in the number of "hyped-up" competitions slash performances. These rivalries are just not as publicized as before in order to maintain a team's good online publicity. But trust me, teams go just as hard to try to beat each other as ever before, if not more, even if they're friends or friendly. They may not be getting into fist fights, but that ever since teams have acquired a sense of entitlement, becoming accustomed to thinking they know what it takes to place/win, more civilized rivalries (other than the sneaking in to watch/record other team's rehearsals/practices) still get formed.[/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I ran into a co-worker who was telling me how he use to watch KJ, TRB, LBC back in college and how the bhangra circuit completely declined after them. I see people from my generation tell me how they loved SGPD, NJ, VCU and how the bhangra circuit is completely declining after them. No doubt in the my mind that I will one day hear people talking about the good old days with Knightz, Cal Bhangra and Shan E and how the circuit is declining after them.[/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I think it all boils down to an issue with our perception of the circuit.[/font]

 

[desi99]

Prior to 2008, teams hardly ever used saaps/daangs or any other props in their routines. Then around 2009, props made their way into the routines.

This thread is a great discussion but I just wanted to quickly point out this is factually incorrect.

Cheers,
Old Man Saleem

how is that incorrect? Before around 2008, saaps werent as big as they are today. Some teams used them, some teams didnt. For teams that did use them, the saap part wasnt as complex as it now. Now days, it would be crazy to not have saap segment in a routine.

Sorry, but you're Incorrect. Sapp/khunde have always been apart of a bhangra before 2008. what do you mean complex? like throwing them around and sliding them? then yes that was unheard of before 2008.

 

[campy614]

Prior to 2008, teams hardly ever used saaps/daangs or any other props in their routines. Then around 2009, props made their way into the routines.

This thread is a great discussion but I just wanted to quickly point out this is factually incorrect.
Cheers,
Old Man Saleem

how is that incorrect? Before around 2008, saaps werent as big as they are today. Some teams used them, some teams didnt. For teams that did use them, the saap part wasnt as complex as it now. Now days, it would be crazy to not have saap segment in a routine.

Saleem's been in the bhangra circuit since the beginning of civilization. If anyone were to know if saaps were used before 2008, he would.

Also, he's correct - yes they were used before 2008. No, choreography with them was not as complex as it is now.

 

[Saleem]

As Joe said, choreo was not as complex but they were definitely there. It was pretty standard to have saaps and daangs in choreography. Katos were rarer. I recall choreography from when I was first dancing in 2002-3 (holy shit) with chimte, saaps, daangs, etc.

 

[yraparla]

I remember saaps and katos as far back as 2002 blowout, and Boston just released rutgers 2004 video with katos and saaps...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZzZwRE_h9Sk#t=252


props existed and were prevalent early in the 2000s, the difference is the expectation of how the props were to be used (i.e. props at beginning) and of course how complex to make prop choreo. But that's not unique to props, all choreo has undergone a 'classical' reframing with stricter rules and expectations alongside complex choreo evolution

 

[DGoraya]

lol this is how i imagine a "bhangra chart" would look like up until 2013


http://worldhistoryforusall.sdsu.edu/images/Popn_Graph2.jpg