Bhangra Video Copyright Claims

[hardeep_singh]

Does a team have any legal grounds for filing a copyright complaint against a video uploaded of a performance at a competition? Usually the hosting competition can enforce copyright complaints if they've reserved rights to record and broadcast videos of the competition or given those rights to a third party. In the case of Boston Bhangra Competition they made a statement last year that they would allow fan recorded videos to be uploaded publicly and I was given verbal permission by BBC staff to record videos.

 

[DamanSingh]

Does a team have any legal grounds for filing a copyright complaint against a video uploaded of a performance at a competition? Usually the hosting competition can enforce copyright complaints if they've reserved rights to record and broadcast videos of the competition or given those rights to a third party. In the case of Boston Bhangra Competition they made a statement last year that they would allow fan recorded videos to be uploaded publicly and I was given verbal permission by BBC staff to record videos.

Right. I don't think there are any legal grounds for such complaints. If a team does not want a performance video posted, I think everyone should comply out of courtesy.

 

[hardeep_singh]

Does a team have any legal grounds for filing a copyright complaint against a video uploaded of a performance at a competition? Usually the hosting competition can enforce copyright complaints if they've reserved rights to record and broadcast videos of the competition or given those rights to a third party. In the case of Boston Bhangra Competition they made a statement last year that they would allow fan recorded videos to be uploaded publicly and I was given verbal permission by BBC staff to record videos.

Right. I don't think there are any legal grounds for such complaints. If a team does not want a performance video posted, I think everyone should comply out of courtesy.

no such request was made from when i sent the video link to the captain (in november) to when i posted the video on btf(yesterday).

 

[J-Skeet]

There is legal ground, but is not black and white. From a choreographic standpoint; yes there are certain copyright laws. However, the work has to be registered...so ye, it's probably bs. No grounds for copyright under music applies. The only possible legal ground that anyone has to file a complaint (in this situation) is if there was some paperwork stating copyright rules in a bbc document or there was an agreement before hand between said team and comp. plus comp policies towards the attendees etc. Still there's always some grey area when we're talking anything copyright

 

[yraparla]

There is legal ground, but is not black and white. From a choreographic standpoint; yes there are certain copyright laws. However, the work has to be registered...so ye, it's probably bs. No grounds for copyright under music applies. The only possible legal ground that anyone has to file a complaint (in this situation) is if there was some paperwork stating copyright rules in a bbc document or there was an agreement before hand between said team and comp. plus comp policies towards the attendees etc. Still there's always some grey area when we're talking anything copyright

This is not true, part of the registration packet is signing away this right, so no, a team cannot block you (usually anyway, with BBC I'm sure it is). However youtube's process for appeals is murky and generally favors the creator of content (in this case the team).

 

[yomamajama]

If Swi is right, and since Empire is from CA and CA courts could have jurisdiction over this matter, then Empire can file a complaint through youtube's appeal process under CA law.

I didn't really have enough time to look up the matter, but below is one statute that governs the matter under CA law:


§ 3344. Use of another's name, voice, signature, photograph, or likeness for advertising or selling or soliciting purposes
[SIZE=78%](a) Any person who knowingly uses another's name, voice, signature, photograph, or likeness, in any manner, on or in products, merchandise, or goods, or for purposes of advertising or selling, or soliciting purchases of, products, merchandise, goods or services, without such person's prior consent, or, in the case of a minor, the prior consent of his parent or legal guardian, shall be liable for any damages sustained by the person or persons injured as a result thereof. In addition, in any action brought under this section, the person who violated the section shall be liable to the injured party or parties in an amount equal to the greater of seven hundred fifty dollars ($750) or the actual damages suffered by him or her as a result of the unauthorized use, and any profits from the unauthorized use that are attributable to the use and are not taken into account in computing the actual damages. In establishing such profits, the injured party or parties are required to present proof only of the gross revenue attributable to such use, and the person who violated this section is required to prove his or her deductible expenses. Punitive damages may also be awarded to the injured party or parties. The prevailing party in any action under this section shall also be entitled to attorney's fees and costs.[/SIZE]


(b) As used in this section, “photograph” means any photograph or photographic reproduction, still or moving, or any videotape or live television transmission, of any person, such that the person is readily identifiable.


Sorry for the long message but I hope this helps. I really think this is a non-issue, I don't really mean to scare you, just trying to be informative for future cases that arise similarly to this.

 

[J-Skeet]

There is legal ground, but is not black and white. From a choreographic standpoint; yes there are certain copyright laws. However, the work has to be registered...so ye, it's probably bs. No grounds for copyright under music applies. The only possible legal ground that anyone has to file a complaint (in this situation) is if there was some paperwork stating copyright rules in a bbc document or there was an agreement before hand between said team and comp. plus comp policies towards the attendees etc. Still there's always some grey area when we're talking anything copyright

This is not true, part of the registration packet is signing away this right, so no, a team cannot block you (usually anyway, with BBC I'm sure it is). However youtube's process for appeals is murky and generally favors the creator of content (in this case the team).

hence the reference to bbc document. i used a different term, "bbc document", to encompass the registration packet as well as anything else exchanged between both parties. A registration packet does not necessarily guarantee a waiver of a teams copyright...maybe it's a common thing in packets??? ??? I didn't take the time to go through the registration packets, but ye thanks (if you did). If you didn't well then, ye nice hunch . Also I don't believe he was asking for grounds based on youtube, but rather grounds based on legality.

[SIZE=78%]
[/SIZE] Use of another's name, voice, signature, photograph, or likeness for advertising or selling or soliciting purposes
I really think this is a non-issue, I don't really mean to scare you, just trying to be informative for future cases that arise similarly to this.

He's not soliciting. Affirmative defense and your safe .

 

[yomamajama]

"He's not soliciting. Affirmative defense and your safe [/size]."


[font=verdana, sans-serif]Your absolutely right. But its a disjunctive rule, so it could in theory be for advertising purposes... Again people can interpret the terms if there are relevant statutes that allow people to define them in certain ways. [/font]

 

[J-Skeet]

"He's not soliciting. Affirmative defense and your safe ."


Your absolutely right. But its a disjunctive rule, so it could in theory be for advertising purposes... Again people can interpret the terms if there are relevant statutes that allow people to define them in certain ways.

Mainly depends on purpose. Advertising for educational purpose and to promote bhangra should be fine. but say you run a dance studio and use empires video to promote ur classes...thats kinda fine too . Now let's say that you're falsely advertising that you are "Empire" (not saying that u were inspired by empire<--this might be fine), when you're actually teaching masala bhangra. That might be fine too since they both look the same to me anyway : . Actually masala bhangra might actually be (more of a chance than anything else I'd say) copyrighted..go figure . anyway, a lot of it is grey man and theres very little precedence. go speculate

 

[Sue Sylvester]

Outside the legal ramifications, bro, you did kinda instigate that takedown. People on that thread were hating on Empire and their style and you posted a close up video of a disappointing Empire routine (and not the Empire routine in question, which was at least 2x better) that simply added fuel to the fire.

Empire has a history of having videos get taken down, especially those of less successful performances, but honestly this has become common practice for even most teams. The difference is that most teams will simply contact the uploader personally to have it taken down rather than go through official channels and have the uploader's account punished with a strike against their account. My video of Empire at BBC 2013 was taken down days after BBC and even though your side-angle videos are sick, consider yourself lucky that yours was allowed to stay up for so long. And if you don't want the team to want to take it down, just don't try to use it to fuel negative sentiments against the team.

 

[DamanSingh]

Regardless of whether or not he instigated the take down of the video, it certainly was not necessary to jeopardize his YouTube channel with a copyright violation. Simply asking him to take down the video, a request that he was ready to honor, would have been as effective. Teams should refrain from filing copyright violations until they have exhausted all other methods of communication.

 

[Sue Sylvester]

Regardless of whether or not he instigated the take down of the video, it certainly was not necessary to jeopardize his YouTube channel with a copyright violation. Simply asking him to take down the video, a request that he was ready to honor, would have been as effective. Teams should refrain from filing copyright violations until they have exhausted all other methods of communication.

I completely agree with that.

 

[J Wong]

Can we have a rule on the circuit to just post your videos?


What if someone steals my choreo?
I mean honestly, who really is going to steal your choreo? If they did, your video would be up and we can call them out on it.


But what if the judges see the video?
In the world of social media, nothing you do can stay secret anymore and a good judge will be able to judge you fairly despite seeing something for a performance the week before.

 

[HarmanToor]

I agree with J Wong, just post the videos. Unless you're using the choreo for an upcoming set, I don't see a reason for any team to hide their hard work.

Bhangra today seems a lot more laid back and enjoyable compared to just a few years ago when we were all at each others throats over small things. If your performance has mistakes in it, it's not a big deal, most of us watch these videos for the love of Bhangra and for the entertainment.

 

[Basim]

I hate when teams do this sort of stuff. As others mentioned, a simple request to hardeep would have taken care of the issue without making a big issue out of things.

Clearly, this was done by Empire because they were being criticized/hated on BTF (not the first time, might I add).

While I respect Empire for all they have accomplished and sticking to what they are best at (providing overall entertainment value to a global audience), notice that they only take down videos where they don't place (usually 1st or 2nd).

By the way, a semi related topic was when BBC used to take down videos and we (the people ;D ) rioted against this (http://bhangrateamsforum.com/discuss/post-mixes-and-video-links/aeg-front-hd-video-nov-12th/msg184195/#msg184195). I have strong belief that these type of topics on BTF and teams actually voicing their opinion to the committee led to BBC learning and changing their silly ways.

What's funny though is that Empire has a team policy not to get on BTF, but I know for a fact that many of their team members read topics here. Hi Omer!

~ Basim

 

[yraparla]

I have strong belief that these type of topics on BTF and teams actually voicing their opinion to the committee led to BBC learning and changing their silly ways.

Just want to point out that BBC's policy was due to a contract they had (I forget which tv channel). In exchange for being broadcast on TV they had to provide exclusive rights to the content, which is standard I would guess. So while it was annoying, I never viewed it as BBC's"fault" per se that they had to do it. The truth is that the audience on TV would be much broader than the narrow/niche demographics watching our youtube vids

I'd rather have a youtube vid so I can show my family and friends (plus the tv angle wasn't great and DVDs never seemed to be available), but I'm just saying that at least in BBC's case there was a point to it all

 

[hardeep_singh]

Outside the legal ramifications, bro, you did kinda instigate that takedown. People on that thread were hating on Empire and their style and you posted a close up video of a disappointing Empire routine (and not the Empire routine in question, which was at least 2x better) that simply added fuel to the fire.

Empire has a history of having videos get taken down, especially those of less successful performances, but honestly this has become common practice for even most teams. The difference is that most teams will simply contact the uploader personally to have it taken down rather than go through official channels and have the uploader's account punished with a strike against their account. My video of Empire at BBC 2013 was taken down days after BBC and even though your side-angle videos are sick, consider yourself lucky that yours was allowed to stay up for so long. And if you don't want the team to want to take it down, just don't try to use it to fuel negative sentiments against the team.

cmon kinnell you know me better than that, when i wanna be antagonistic, i make it pretty obvious/direct. like everyone else i do criticize performances in private conversations but i've never gone out of my way to bash a teams performance publicly. the intent of posting my video wasn't to generate any vitriol towards empire. the video was posted without any personal opinions or comments for the purposes of providing a reference.

In my 10+ years in the Bhangra scene, 2013 was probably the worst I have experienced. From cancelled competitions, to empty audiences, to repetitive routines, the year as a whole was definitely a step backwards for Bhangra. People who disagree with this are either living in a fantasy world, or are very new to the scene and do not have anything with which to compare.

this statement was made by omer on his blog, so posting a video of their latest competitive performance was intended to provide a point of reference as to where they stand with respect to the bhangra scene. it's up to the general viewer to watch the video and decide whether empire is helping the progress of bhangra. everyone has their own style and any style will look good when executed well, so i'm not promoting any hatred towards empire's style. allowing styles, concepts, gimmicks, ideas, choreo to evolve and grow is what is good for bhangra and everyone has the freedom to watch a video and decide whether a performance is progressive or not.

i agree with jordan and harman, teams should take pride in their performances and allow them to be posted freely.

lol love the meme basim

 

[Gabroo Tv]

this statement was made by omer on his blog

What has been written on the blog is the authors opinion. While people may not agree with it, it is in fact their own opinion and the author is respectfully entitled to it. By showing exasperation, you will only fuel an appetancy to write more comments such as the ones that are causing the sting. A person also has to uphold something called character. By submitting a YouTube copyright complaint, without consulting you, represents their character. If this is how one wishes to represent themselves in a public domain, then so be it.

There are situations in life where you have to stand up, be the matured person, and just let it be. This is one of those situations. Send me a message with the complaint details and I'll advise you how to get the copyright point removed.


-hh

 

[voxanimus]

hardeep, in the future, you could try throwing up a small DMCA disclaimer blurb in the video description.


"this video qualifies as fair use under DMCA guidelines as it is being used for the purpose of education" or something is usually enough to deter takedown notices. although that might have changed recently given youtube's new takedown policy.

 

[Gabroo Tv]

With such a large audience, especially with younger kids, Empire in a way can easily spread their propaganda. Yes, it is their opinion, and yes they can spread it. However, a lot of people on the circuit resent that, because it may be impending their definition of bhangra.

Omer and I actually had an extensive and lengthy conversation regarding this very subject as we both awaited connecting flights back to California. It's best I don't disclose the synopsis of said conversation. Take it for what it is.


-hh