***CORNELL BHANGRA @ WORLDS BEST BHANGRA CREW 2013 - 1st PLACE (GTV Update!)***

[lakha23]

Re: ***CORNELL BHANGRA @ WORLDS BEST BHANGRA CREW 2013 - 1st PLACE***

Congrats Cornell, just watched y'all's set! It was really entertaining and clean! Great job!!!

 

[vishalp819]

Re: ***CORNELL BHANGRA @ WORLDS BEST BHANGRA CREW 2013 - 1st PLACE***

Here's my absolute honest opinion about the set overall. I'm predicating this by saying that I have a very specific taste when it comes to bhangra performances.

When I watch your routine, I only really watch Karthik and Anik. Every time I gaze away from you two, I realize that dancer level is really off to me. It might just be the way you teach your style, but it seems a bit on the robotic side. There's little-to-no-emphasis on shaking shoulders. You guys do really well though on the high knees and square form, though; I'll give you that. The saaps segment for me was too little clapping and too much closing your saap and doing dhamaal legs. That's def just a personal preference though. Also, maybe it's just me, but it seemed like every other segment was a gimmick or a "rest segment" where you can catch your breath and go hard the rest of the way. It's a genius idea on your part because it lets you collect your breath and go HAM for the segment after because people are so focused on your gimmick, that you could be up there doing kuchipudi and no one would care. Props for that insight and planning, but it's not something that I'm drawn to. On the note of gimmicks, I watch waaay too much bhangra, but for me this was just every single gimmick you've done over the past three years rehashed into one routine. For the average watcher, I'm sure it was mindblowing, but for me, I was like..seen it. There was this strange point during the routine where like the guy next to me at the crowd was like "dude, where are those two guys khundey?" I was like, with full confidence, "Don't worry, it will appear out of their ramaals or something." Once again, just me being a bhangra addict, but it's almost like I expect Cornell to engineer some sort of crazy magic-trick like gimmick. The popping and locking guy never invokes any reaction out of me, except for the wonder of how he keeps his pagg on after all that. I totally understand that it's your style, but I'd like to see the talent you guys have go towards something different over the next couple of years.

As for the mix, it was super hype and mad props for making it in house! I always love you guys' song choices. At times, it felt a little electro/trap/dubstep heavy though for me.

Once again, this is all my watching preferences and stuff, so feel free to completely ignore anything I said. Major props on winning it all. You guys looked like you put a lot of hard work and effort into the routine and the crowd was more than entertained. I knew you guys were going to take it when 1/4 of the crowd gave you a standing ovation.

Agree with this fully. Doing gimmick after gimmick will captivate the audience and most judges but I hope this set doesn't change the circuit.

Not taking away from the win at all though, it's apparent you guys put in countless hours to perfect the routine and capt. Karthik is one of the most humble/talented dancers in the circuit. Congrats!

 

[arnab]

Re: ***CORNELL BHANGRA @ WORLDS BEST BHANGRA CREW 2013 - 1st PLACE***

you guys already know that i love you, and after seeing the work you guys were putting in towards this set...i knew something special was going to happen on that stage saturday night. to allude to what anik was saying in his competition review post, this compeition was PERFECT for cornell bhangra. i've always felt like your team has had to hold back your crazy ideas for normal competitions for fear of a blowout 2012 situation...but as long as i've known cornell bhangra, your simple goal has been to entertain the general audience. of course, us bhangra-philes can still enjoy the routine...but we're going to wonder things like why there isn't that much dhol in the mix, why people aren't bouncing their modhey, why are there so many gimmicks. i think that we should remember that quite frankly, this set wasn't made for us. it was made for everyone in that audience who probably has no idea what BTF is, those who didn't watch every Elite 8 video a bajillion times.

i think some may argue that "selling" bhangra to general audiences using this type of style might be insincere to the dance, but i like to think that it's routines like these that are the gateway drug to bhangra. hopefully this captivated a few people in the audience at WBBC, and maybe they've watched a few more bhangra vids this weekend because of it. maybe they'll even make a BTF account...who knows?

 

[jasraj93]

Re: ***CORNELL BHANGRA @ WORLDS BEST BHANGRA CREW 2013 - 1st PLACE***

that wassss cleann!!!! the saap and kunda gimmick was creative, really enjoyed the guy in the silver at the end good job

 

[baljot]

Re: ***CORNELL BHANGRA @ WORLDS BEST BHANGRA CREW 2013 - 1st PLACE***

Khunde gimmick was dope in person. Came outta no where. Congrats Cornell!

 

[Jacquizz Rogers]

Re: ***CORNELL BHANGRA @ WORLDS BEST BHANGRA CREW 2013 - 1st PLACE***

Big thanks to Dilbagh on the pagghan

That man is such a magician with the spray starch! Much respect to Dilbagh for tying a majority of the pagghan at the competition.

Congrats on the 1st place performance! By FAR the biggest crowd reaction of the night for any team.

 

[Kartik]

Re: ***CORNELL BHANGRA @ WORLDS BEST BHANGRA CREW 2013 - 1st PLACE***

Thank you all for the love, means a lot to all of us here at Cornell. We'll be putting up the GTV video when it's up as well so stay tuned for that.

Glad to see our performance motivating some interesting discussions, I've got a few thoughts as well - will respond/ask a few questions of my own once I've got some more time now that I'm catching up with work since WBBC & Pao are over.

 

[Kartik]

Re: ***CORNELL BHANGRA @ WORLDS BEST BHANGRA CREW 2013 - 1st PLACE***


Here's the GTV video of our performance, big thanks to Harjot for recording and Lilly for the awesome introduction!

Cornell Bhangra @ Worlds Best Bhangra Crew 2013

 

[Kartik]

NOTE: I know this is really long, if you read nothing else, check out points 4-5 because I think those are applicable to all.


Hey everyone,


I've been super busy the last few weeks, but now that the wave of bhangra + work has died down, I want to extend the discussion on a few topics related to our video/your comments about our video that have been on my mind for a while. This may seem all over the place but might as well put it all in one post. I'll try to structure my thoughts so this isn't one big blob of text. I kept this as part of our video thread because the majority of comments are very relevant to our performance and I think my thoughts are best viewed through the perspective of our performance.


1) Our intention was to make a set that had something in it for everyone to enjoy. I'm very glad to see that many of you BTF members enjoyed as well


Throughout our choreography/planning, we wanted to put in aspects that would appeal to each segment of the bhangra-watching audience/community. The gimmicks that you've all mentioned were of course to entertain the masses (and ourselves), but we also focused on bhangra-based creativity to entertain some of the more familiar faces - the mirza/phumaniya combination that karandeol commented on.


I think a set can be creative in many ways, and it's important to acknowledge all aspects of a choreographer's efforts. Different things appeal to different people - thank you to those of you who have acknowledged our efforts across different aspects.


2) WBBC is a different competition than most, and you need to go only as far as the judging process to understand that.


Two groups of judges with separate rubrics (similar to Idols), no "traditionality" category, and, VERY importantly, an explicit judges meetings 1 month before the competition.


What was our goal for this competition? We wanted to put forth a performance that we will cherish as a team. This meant putting together a set that is both memorable and suited to doing well at the competition. So many times in the meetings with all team captains, Faizan and the judges clarified precisely what the competition entails. For example, it was expressed that "a team at WBBC can't just do jumps and finish their dance". We tried to understand the competition format to the best of our ability and had a lot of fun with it, as Arnab noted.


Thank you to the WBBC for giving teams a chance to do something different. I don't want every competition to copy WBBC, but the diversity this competition adds as a challenge to teams is phenomenal.


3) The circuit isn't dead.


I've never seen so many teams that are dancing and executing so well. When I was a freshman, there were always at least 1-2 teams that brought a poor quality performance to a competition (I've been a part of those as well) - but I don't think that happens anymore. No team brings a performance that can be laughed at or joked about because everyone is competent. I'm impressed by how hard everyone on the circuit works to put forth such solid performances.


4) The "problem with the circuit" isn't just that teams don't develop their own unique style, but teams get stagnant and obsessed with sticking to just their "own style".


Jacob noted that "[SIZE=78%]if we'd walked in the room without knowing that was Cornell, we'd have been stunned if you told us it was." [/SIZE]
That's one of the best compliments a team can get, I believe, because it shows how well a group of dancers can adapt in a short amount of time. These days, teams are so focused on being either FOLK or MODERN or TRADITIONAL or HYPE. Why do you have to choose one of these things and stick to it blindly forever?


Karthik, you pointed out that we've been successful this year because we've brought our own style to each competition, but I really don't think that's the case - we went to very different styles of competitions this year - TDOT, Burgh, Fever, Bell, and WBBC. Our Burgh performance is very different in emphasis and "style" than our WBBC performance. This is deliberate - though people compare our WBBC performance to Empire, I don't think Empire (if they stuck to their style) would have as much success at a competition like Burgh that focuses more on "traditionality". Instead of emulating us having our own style, I'd encourage established teams to be flexible in their viewpoints, and open to experiment different styles at different competitions. I respect a team that can do well at different style competitions a lot more than a team that can only be successful at Boston & Bruin or Burgh & Blowout.


Yes, KS, I agree with you to a certain extent - I don't want a new team to show up at Pop's Magic Store looking for a gimmick, but there is also the burden on established teams to show they are good at more than just one thing. Develop a style and master it - for new teams, focus on this. Well established teams, once you've got your own style, put in the effort to broaden your mind and adapt - that's a much more difficult challenge in my opinion.


5) We are all more similar to each other than we are to anyone else.


A few days ago, I came across a post on FB of someone from WBBC saying "check out us doing BHANGRA at a BHANGRA competition" and found it quite unfortunate, because I'm a huge fan of the team. What is it with us and thinking that what WE do is BHANGRA and what some other team does is .... ballet? jazz? The ironic point in this is that on this team's WBBC youtube video appears the following comment:


"It was good,but dis is not Bhangra ,it is a performance in which bhangra steps are used..!if u ask me to rate dis i ll rate it 9/10 as a performance,but if u ask me 2 rate as a bhangra then 3/10 ..!"


The moment we, as creative members of the same circuit, use projectors and screens, build tanks, throw grenades, twirl hula hoops, wave flags, break khunde, dance to excessively remixed songs, use English lyrics in a mix, setup huge banners, build platforms, lift up signs, insert a few "bharatanatyam" steps, or make khunde appear out of flags - THAT moment is when we forfeit the right to say that anyone is doing anything more RIGHT or WRONG.


As a choreographer, OF COURSE you're going to like your own style more than someone else's. If that wasn't the case, you wouldn't have created your style in the first place! I think Kinnell's comments are perfectly reasonable - that a stop-and-go format may inhibit flow and aesthetics - those are comments that show consideration of another performance's style and work within that framework. But I think other perspectives can be dangerous - to look at one team and say that what they do is "easier" or that they're not aligned with exactly what you'd want to see in a performance. Isn't it absurd to expect a team to dance the way you want it to? Wouldn't that be sad if everyone did that?


I know people in this circuit are very proud of what we put forth on stage - but that doesn't mean we should close our minds down so much that we cannot appreciate our fellow PEERS. It's a vicious cycle too, one team things that Cornell doesn't do bhangra, the immature Kartik of 4 years ago doesn't think that Empire/APD do bhangra, but ultimately the viewer in Punjab doesn't think any of us do bhangra.


Let's rejoice in this beautiful style we have created and be proud of that. No one needs to hide behind the veil of "folk" or "traditional" or "hype" to feel superior. Be proud of your dancing, but be proud of your gimmicks too. Embrace your entire performance - subtleties of emphasis on dancing, emphasis on gimmicks, emphasis on nakhra, change from set to set but don't be embarrassed to stand for what you've created. You don't need a label to justify your team or your performance.

Feel free to respond to any of these points in the context of our video, other performances, or just your own thoughts. Would love to hear what you all have to say - it's out of respect for your opinions that I decided to compile this post.

 

[Armaan Kapoor]

Adaptability is the key to survival. Kartik Shastri, you are my hero.

 

[yomamajama]

too many gimmicks, not much bhangra. Moves seem a little recycled. Given that this was a new comp with more of a modern type of bhangra style, I can see why this team won as opposed to teams like Furteelay, knightz, and GCC, which I all thought won be the ones vying for that title. I guess it depends on the audience and how teams such as cornell execute their routine to entertain a more modern crowd.

 

[DamanSingh]

Very well written and much-needed post.

3) The circuit isn't dead.


I've never seen so many teams that are dancing and executing so well. When I was a freshman, there were always at least 1-2 teams that brought a poor quality performance to a competition (I've been a part of those as well) - but I don't think that happens anymore. No team brings a performance that can be laughed at or joked about because everyone is competent. I'm impressed by how hard everyone on the circuit works to put forth such solid performances.

+1000


Thanks for pointing this out. It annoys me that so many naively declare the circuit to be dead after watching a video of a performance they don't like or a style they don't like. How often do we see teams deliver embarrassing stage performances nowadays? With the nature of the circuit, and so many competitions springing up here and there, every team is striving to reach a more competitive level. There is such a diverse array of styles nowadays, and as you pointed out, teams are executing and dancing better than they ever have.


The circuit is not dead; it's alive and well.

 

[yomamajama]

And I dont mean to sound negative or a douche, I agree with some of the points made by Kartik. But ultimately, for someone who loves to watch bhangra performed the right way, and when I say that I dont mean to open debate on what bhangra should look like, but the way in which teams dance with grace and straight oldschool nakhra is more aesthetically pleasing to watch than a team that does too much with their gimmicks and lets that win over the crowd


And agree on your point that the scene isnt dead. This year was absolutely a killer year for all uk and us teams. The level of execution and how ill the mixes are are a true testament to the level of passion and dedication teams exhibit now

 

[GSingh]

but ultimately the viewer in Punjab doesn't think any of us do bhangra.

This is the only point that I couldn't really get my head around. I think you're missing a key uniting factor in the people of Punjab vs. outside which is that they're still just people looking to be entertained.

It's the same thought process both in the homeland and abroad. The die hard "cultured" (I use quotes loosely, not to offend anyone, just provide their perspective) will appreciate the traditional aspect much more than any derivation of it regardless of whether they're in Punjab or the States or Canada. Just as the mass audience goes nuts for Empire when they see them perform in the States, they have a HUGE audience in Punjab. I'd say 80% of their fan support is from Punjab. What does this mean? perhaps the people there are tired of seeing the same thing over and over (perception of Live bhangra done in collegiate competitions), or perhaps because the masses don't understand the art in it, they overlook many of the aspects that make live bhangra so distinct. When we see imitations of empire, they're mostly Indian teams. Maybe its to get an easy audience reaction because the audience is likely to have seen Empire's performance and having seen the positive comments that it receives, they begin to think that THIS is what it's supposed to be.

From personal experience with talking to people who just came from India, they don't mention any other team except for "empire bhangra veerji" "vadiya karde ah".

Looking back at my post, I have no idea if it helps to analyze the circuit but personally, I really don't think anyone's in a place to say what is right or wrong when it comes to art. All artforms evolve and to prefer one over another is perfectly valid, but to impose an objective opinion of it is naive in its entirety.

 

[Anik915]

Great post Kartik, some very important points brought up.


I think it's incredibly important for us all to remember that the circuit is not as big as it always seems, and that we should try to be each others biggest supporters - in the end we're all working for a similar cause, and that is spreading this unique dance and culture across the country.


Hoping that we can all continue to work together,
Anik

 

[Kartik]

GSingh, you're right on the punjabi audience point - I think the point I was trying to make is that there is SOMEONE else out there that looks at all of our teams and says that none of us are doing bhangra (like the youtube commenter that I quote).

Looking back at my post, I have no idea if it helps to analyze the circuit but personally, I really don't think anyone's in a place to say what is right or wrong when it comes to art. All artforms evolve and to prefer one over another is perfectly valid, but to impose an objective opinion of it is naive in its entirety.

Yea this is exactly what I'm trying to say in point 5, agreed 100%.

Karn - I don't think we actually disagree at all, and we're not far apart on our views of bhangra either. I'm not saying people can't have a preference - I'm citing the inability for people to get beyond what their conception of "right" or "wrong" bhangra is. I'm not against having a folk modern debate at all - from the perspective of aesthetics. I'm very much against the concept that "folk bhangra is correct bhangra" because I think the term "folk" in of itself is flawed. "Folk" is thrown around like a big blanket to cover up a whole team or performance without doing justice to the uniqueness the exhibit.

The reason that's important is because it makes people divided over a dance that is actually much more united than we think. For example, some say Cornell isn't folk because they do gimmicks. But Cornell didn't do any gimmicks at Burgh so are they still not folk? Or even more so, you consider Steel City to be relatively folk (and not Cornell I'm assuming) but SCB did a minute long Mela sequence with a Taco Bell backdrop to salsa music. If doing non-bhangra related gimmicks disqualifies teams from being folk then that doesn't seem to be compatible. Obviously I'm not attacking SCB, or even FCB - I'm a big supporter of both teams as the past-captains know - I'm just pointing out the flaw in such a way of thinking about "folk". It's the same stagnant mentality that SCB had to deal with during the judging process at Blowout last year.

Regarding judging - I'm sure judging is messed up in a lot of places, I've dealt with terrible experiences myself. However whether judging "should be" traditional or modern isn't a mature way to look at things. Different comps focus on different styles and it's up to a team to partake or not. I would be very sad to see every bhangra competition value the same exact things and have the same rubric and place teams on the same principles. That'd be super boring as a captain and an audience member. That being said, you're right that there are both modern gimmicks (our pop-locking, or SCB's taco bell) as well as traditional gimmicks (mirza/phumaniya combo, or SCB's drop into lehriyan at BB 19) that can be done.

I'm very much pro discussion of the topic, which is why is why I put in the time to revive this conversation. Glad to hear your thoughts as well as those of the others.