Dholis on stage

[singhshady]

Hi guys,

Just wanted some opinions on the best way to utilise dhol players on stage with a Bhangra team. This is under the assumption that it's not a live set, rather a mix. I find that on several occasions it had been unfortunate that comps we have performed at did not have stage monitors/speakers and therefore the dhol overpowers the music on stage and sometimes the dancers have trouble hearing the mix also.

Now I know the simple solution would be 'to get the speakers' on stage but this isn't always possible. It also looks stupid to mimic because it's obvious and looks silly. Maybe I am over analysing and can try playing quieter, but it's a drum, it's meant to be hit and it's loud unlike a tabla or dholki. Any suggestions/feedback or advice would be appreciated.

 

[nmistry2]

Dholis being too loud can definitely be an issue and it sucks cause the dhol is amazing and adds an awesome flare to the performance. It should be heard but to the extent where it does not over power the music.


If the system sucks there is not much to be done, that is where you have to compromise and try and control your playing but even though the mix isn't heard, the dhol should keep the beat and rhythm for the dancers so ideally it should not make the biggest difference as long as the dholi is on beat.


I think what is more important is the dhol presence on stage. There is a dividing line between a dholi that interacts and one who is just there to play. The dholi should play and look powerful as well as interact with both the audience and team. Nakhre is really important, having them stand on the side looking lazy just is not visually appealing. If you check out dholi ram he smiles moves around does nakhre with everyone and looks like he's having a blast.


Also a dholi can definitely be integrated into the set as more then just a side instrumentalist, you can get creative like CMU did this year check there videos out.


I know this might have been more then you were looking for but i thought i would say it cause this was something i noticed in a lot of videos this year

 

[jasraj93]

Play your dhagga on beat, play the thilli very lightly or just hit the rim of the dhol, thilli is what usually throws everyone off during music sets. Dancers just gotta trust their dholi to stay on beat

 

[Basim]

Solution: Just suspend your dholi above the dancers, then he/she can play as loud as they want! See 7:10 of this video. haha!

On the real though - I agree with nmistry that a dholi's interaction with the audience is crucial. How a dholi is incorporated into a set (whether on a live or music team) gives team's another level of creativity and the vibe that he/she gives out is really important to the entire performance.

Not to take anything away from the topic, but these statements can actually be applied to any member of the band (even chimta players, who normally just dance & stand of the side).. but since the dholi's were mentioned in the original post, we can focus the discussion on them.

~ Basim

 

[sukhvir27]

I have thought of this before too. Sometimes the dhol is so loud that you can barely hear the mix. And when the mix already has so much stuff going on in it, the dhol just makes the mix worst. I feel it's better to just get the dhol in the mix. Use SonyAcid or GarageBand or something and get someone to play the dhol on the mix. If not a dholi on stage, at least it'll be clear, clean, and crisp for the audience to hear. #Don'tPutTooMuchIntoMix #KeepItCleanAndCrisp #IWantToBeAbleToEnjoyMix.

 

[KushK]

Sometimes the dholi actually saves you. Our dholi (Richie) has saved us a few times and been able to keep us hyped up even when the sound was terrible on stage. I mean it is to your advantage when the dholi actually practices with the team and knows what is going on in your set and mix. We have been fortunate enough to have guys like Richie and Harsh play for us and dedicate themselves to knowing the set as well as the music. I think it is unfair sometimes for the judges to call out dholi because they actually help a team out and can keep em going when speakers are super shitty .

I understand sometimes the music is cranked pretty high like BBC always does but then your dholi just has to be able to keep it in the pants and control themselves haha! Captains also should be aware and know exactly what they want from the dholi. If you know there is a certain part of the mix where the mix needs to sell your gimmick... Don't make him play. Just gotta know what you want.

 

[HarmanToor]

There's nothing worse than telling your dholi to play softly. I remember being on stage a few times and shitting bricks because I couldn't hear the mix at all, luckily I was the one who made the mixes so I got through them with only a few mistakes. Apart from playing the dhol quietly, the best advice I can give for a better dhol performance is A) know your music/mix by heart B) have your team learn/familiarize themselves with the set to the dhol so they are prepared for whatever situation comes their way and C) develop the ability to maintain speed and flow accurately without relying on the mix, after the first 8 beats into a new song you should know how fast to play for the remaining beats of the segment/song on your own.

The bigger issue at hand is the competition organizers, they should spend the extra money and hire djs with proper sound reinforcement equipment. IIRC @ elite8 2012, the system that was being used by the looks of it comprised of 4 18" subs and 4 15" 2-way tops for the whole venue, this would be an exceptional sounding system for a small to medium sized banquet hall with 400 people, but no where near enough SPL to provide uniform sound coverage for an entire theater let alone the dancers on stage who are several feet behind the speakers. I know bhangra isn't exactly big money and you got to work with what you got, but when you expect teams to come with good mixes, they deserve to be played on a good system.

 

[Sue Sylvester]

I think it is unfair sometimes for the judges to call out dholi because they actually help a team out and can keep em going when speakers are super shitty .

Judges should not factor sympathy for the teams into judging. They should evaluate the performance as an end product that is objectively judged relative to the other teams.

If an auditorium has shitty speakers, then that blows monkey balls z. But if you were two compare two performances and you couldn't hear the mix of one performance because they had a dholi or that their dholi was louder, then that's a slight against that performance. I'm not blaming the dholi, but you cannot expect the judges not to factor that in in some sort of degree when there are other performances where the mix isn't drowned out. It's great that your dholi hypes you up as dancers, but the audience and judges watch the end product, in sight and in sound.

Mishaps, mistakes, lighting cue mistakes, missing dancers, injuries and auditorium mistakes are unfortunate, especially when it's not the team's fault at all and not an issue of the team not preparing/anticipating the problem earlier. But judges should not sympathize with the teams in this regard and overlook these slights against the performance. That's completely unfair to the other teams who may not have taken those risks or prepared to avoid such situations. Your issue, therefore, is with the auditorium, the competition, luck..etc, not the judges.

 

[KushK]

I think it is unfair sometimes for the judges to call out dholi because they actually help a team out and can keep em going when speakers are super shitty .

Judges should not factor sympathy for the teams into judging. They should evaluate the performance as an end product that is objectively judged relative to the other teams.

If an auditorium has shitty speakers, then that blows monkey balls z. But if you were two compare two performances and you couldn't hear the mix of one performance because they had a dholi or that their dholi was louder, then that's a slight against that performance. I'm not blaming the dholi, but you cannot expect the judges not to factor that in in some sort of degree when there are other performances where the mix isn't drowned out. It's great that your dholi hypes you up as dancers, but the audience and judges watch the end product, in sight and in sound.

Mishaps, mistakes, lighting cue mistakes, missing dancers, injuries and auditorium mistakes are unfortunate, especially when it's not the team's fault at all and not an issue of the team not preparing/anticipating the problem earlier. But judges should not sympathize with the teams in this regard and overlook these slights against the performance. That's completely unfair to the other teams who may not have taken those risks or prepared to avoid such situations. Your issue, therefore, is with the auditorium, the competition, luck..etc, not the judges.

I see.

 

[Dholi harsh]

Ankush

In all honesty wether its performing With Ru or performing with Richie for R.U.D.E and a band, overpowering the sound system has always been a problem that causes me alot of stress. Sometimes when theres tech time, i may get lazy and the sound system has the proper power to balance both the drummer and the mix.... but then when comes performance time and i get hyped up and play that much harder during the performance, the sound crew can be caught off gaurd.

This being said i've been trying to figure out many ways of making my drum sound alot less loud and i've come up with a few things. Just like Mr. Jasraj said, play the dugga side FACING THE CROWD and for the tilli side just play on the rim. It may cause your tilli to start ripping and breaking but.... get over it, you'll live. Also i've noticed when it comes to me playing and richie playing.... that man destroys his drum. He plays so hard it almost scares me. This being said i just try and remain as calm as possible while still looking presentable and looking like im having fun. Another thing i noticed between me and Richie playing is that he uses much heavier sticks then me. Invest in a pair of sticks that are very light weight yet sturdy. The lighter it is, even playing at the same power level.... you will still play a little less loud then usual.

Lastly, as ankush said, know what you're playing and do justice to the music. Yeah playing the full 7-8 mins is impressive but the captain as well as members of the team need to sit down with the dholi and figure out where the dholi should play, where the dholi should give it a break and where the dholi should go buck wild.

All in all, if the dholi can play properly and has had a little experience under his belt, he/she should be able to carry the performance without too much trouble. certain situations you cannot go around such as a shitty sound system but hey.... thats life.

 

[singhshady]

Thanks for everyone for their valuable responses, it would be overly time consuming to respond to all the points made here.


There is definitely some great feedback, some things which I had already had in mind, and new ideas or solutions that people have brought up. I've been playing myself for several years now and always find this matter an issue, which as evident, other dhol players experience also.


Kudos on the responses, and it will surely benefit people in the future looking to seek information or clarity regarding this subject matter.