Disrespecting Props.

[Ashqe]

See to me, it's not so much that these props are like holy objects or anything, it's just that just like how you matha tek the floor when you're on stage to show your thanks for being able to perform on it, the biggest thing about this whole issue is just taking care of the props that let you perform well on stage. I mean, you oil the saaps and put flags on the khunde and all that other stuff, so why go through all of that work to keep the props clean when you're just going to potentially just scuff and fuck them up by dropping them on the ground? It seems to me like saaps are fragile enough that I sure as hell shouldn't be doing anything more to potentially fuck them up.

That to me is why I hate it when people just drop their props like that. Again it's not because the props are holy objects, it just seems wasteful and careless to treat your props like that.

 

[Ak_Di_Nishani]

they are wooden objects, they have no significance. Do you guys respect props when you transport them? Do they go in a holy box? Do you kiss them when they fall? Or do you treat them like shit like ever other team? It's not that serious. I think throwing props on stage looks bad, but that's a different story. Dropping a pugh? disrespect. Droping a wooden khunday? Only disrespectful to the stage if anything.

Thank you. This was my point in the VIBC thread, these days everything is examined so damn closely. It feels like peoplle are just looking for things to critize(and not in a bad way, just to inpute feedback) due to the fact that bhangra is generally on the whole getting cleaner. Faizan hit the nail on the head, they are wooden objects not a religious emblem. Like i said on the other thread i agree it is stupid for one to throw away your props with force, but it is only stupid due to the fact that it cost the poeple who bought them. Until someone brings up an religious background regarding the props, i see no reason to treat them and respect them more hten you would your belongings.

 

[Ak_Di_Nishani]

Would you move props by touching them with your feet?
My guess is no. The same way you wouldn't stand on a book or move a book with your feet...So why not accord props the same respect? There is definitely a difference when a team tosses a prop callously and a team that can incorporate a move or batka or something when placing their props down. a) it's definitely more presentable on stage and b) it shows more deference to an item used in a dance that we all respect!

I have acutally seen in alot of preformances if a saap breaks or if a kunday is dropped to close to a formation a dancer kick the prop to the side. Now if we are respecting props in the way we should respect say a pagh, should we be outraged? Now one can bring up safety issues, sure you can hurt yourself off of a shikay or kunday, but then coudl you not slip on a pagh and hurt yourself? You would be hard pressed to find a person kicking there pagh off stage without all hell breaking loose, would you for a prop? Which is why i again interate my point, props are just that props there is no reason to respect them more then you would your personal belongings.

 

[sgrewal30]

what I find really funny is that a lot of teams who preach respect of props actually don't - behind the scenes that is (practices, dressing rooms, etc). This is all a show. Nobody really practices these values. Its all a facade. What you see on stage sometimes not even what the team values. Just my opinion.

+1000000000000000000000 so true.

 

[SunnyParmar]

I think this is just silly. First, what meistro said is true, all the "Respect" that 85% of you talk about, is a scam. Second, there is a line between respecting bhangra/virsa, and then there is thinking you are hollier than though, and arguing that throwing a prop hard is disrespectful. If you think throwing a prop hard is disrespectful, then why do you throw props on the FLOOR where we step with our feet? Shouldn't we put the saap away carefully on a "non-floor" location? Shouldn't we put out katos away nicely somewhere clean? Come on, give me a break. We can throw props on the floor, but we can't slam them, because THEN it becomes disprespetful? Teams in India respect the pugh, the stage, the dhol...they THROW props, hard sometimes, why? Because they know it's not that serious. If you support "sliding, placing, or lightly putting down," it's bloody silly if you are against slamming.

For those who grew up respecting these values we were taught about how we always matha tekh the floor when we walk in, we never wear shoes on the dance floor, no swearing on the dance floor, or if your foot EVER touches a shika, kato, khunda you always matha tekh it, these are values few of us were taught and there's obviously a difference between those and dropping a sapp or khunda. Faizan you were talking about putting khunda on the floor and how thats the same thing, in India everyone knows that feet are considered "pure" in some ways (i'm not sure about the actual reason why), that's why we matha tekh our elders. When you practice in a place (ie bhangra academies in Vancouver) the consideration is that because we don't put shoes on and dirty the place where we dance, that unless we physically hit our feet on a sapp or any instrument that it is okay to have them at the same level because they are both pure.

Like stated before the whole dropping your props fast was done to make it easy to flow between formations or moves or whatever the team felt necessary. Personally I've been doing bhangra in BC for 14 years and I never had thrown anything and never will. Choosing where want to place the instruments is our choice, but how we place them is up to you.

Lol go kick a samurai's sword and he'll make sushi out of you, than again its just metal. You should try to respect other peoples opinions, its not the material that matters its the significance.

 

[faizan]

Exactly Sunny, when you PRACTICE at a PLACE. When you're on stage, previous acts HAVE stepped on that stage. So Sunny, if you respect the props so much, I would expect you to not put them on the stage since it is not PURE (since people have stepped on it with sneakers). I would expect you to place them somewhere offstage, that is clean and respectable. Otherwise, this part of our argument falls apart.

 

[SunnyParmar]

Exactly Sunny, when you PRACTICE at a PLACE. When you're on stage, previous acts HAVE stepped on that stage. So Sunny, if you respect the props so much, I would expect you to not put them on the stage since it is not PURE (since people have stepped on it with sneakers). I would expect you to place them somewhere offstage, that is clean and respectable. Otherwise, this part of our argument falls apart.

A stage is cleaned and swept up prior to all bhangra competitions, and no teams go on stage, so I don't understand your point. All teams go bare foot, and even those mc's and what not have their own side where they are not coming on stage. It'd be odd and really weird for the stage not to be cleaned before a competition. Don't you?

 

[sgrewal30]

Its not a matter of props being pure and holy or anything its a matter of just respecting them. Tossing them like they are nothing is disrepsectful. Tossing them as like a part of the routine, showing energy etc. i find it different. Even at practices, i know i've had a team mate tell me you dont touch props with your feet. I'm still learning alot about bhangra as i go, so my say in all this probably wont be as strong as faizan's or anyone elses. But I mean, dude... just respect your props just like you respect your team.

 

[faizan]

Respecting props is fair, taking it to the extreme of disallowing slamming is not.

So sweeped clean is good enough? What about disinfected? What about mopped? Who sets these rules? Do you get my point...

 

[SunnyParmar]

I never said I had anything against prop slamming, I jusy wouldn't slam them. As per "disinfectent", I mean come on dude, no ones forcing you to believe what other people do. Next thing you know you'll start an arguement of why we should wear shoes in our places of worship. The point is there's a reason to why we respect the instruments, whether its because we don't want to damage them, or a false belief that we foLlow, point is we should all try to keep these traditions because of respect. BTF is a prime example of loss of respect, people debate everything without "respecting" anyones opinion unless its theirs.

I think your arguement makes sense but so do the people who chose to follow those traditions. Both have valid points. I'm still going to follow the traditions I grew up with.

 

[sgrewal30]

Respecting props is fair, taking it to the extreme of disallowing slamming is not.

So sweeped clean is good enough? What about disinfected? What about mopped? Who sets these rules? Do you get my point...

ok ok lets not be mean guys.. come on. what do you mean slamming like when they do a batka and throw it down? that i just find like part of showing energy isnt it? when you just put a prop down like w/e you look lazy

 

[Meistro]

This is a totally general observation, but what I find interesting is how an individual may respect his props, or claim, and be really hardcore about it, but not have respect as a whole. Do you respect your peers? From my pov, I see people are ready to argue or fight over anything; judging at a competition, any criticism, any comments, the "wrong look", anything. Do you show respect at a bhangra competition? No again. Look at what happens at a hotel at every competition. People who are drunk all over the place, vandalizing property, girls acting like sluts, police being called because of noise volumes. Wheres the respect? These are just a few examples.

Before anybody calls me a hypocrite, yes, I used to act a fool back in the day. But now that I've stopped dancing I've looked at the bhangra scene from outside the box and boy does it look so much more different than when you're on a team. So before people start getting into heated arguments about how to respect a prop, lets learn what the word "respect" means and apply it to our lives. A prop, like faizan said, is an insignificant piece of wood if you only respect it when people are watching. Like i said, this whole bhangra scene is a facade because nobody actually practices RESPECT. Just on the surface.

 

[faizan]

Sunny, I agree, follow what makes sense to you.

 

[Lilly Singh]

During performances when dancers kick props out of the way, I feel most of the time it's the pressure of the performance speaking, not so much the dancers respect. When you have a formation and see a prop in the way sometimes at that moment it seems like the best idea to move it out of the way. I personally feel the dancer shouldnt be bashed or hated on...it happens.

However i do admit that I am very strict with respecting instruments/props with my team just because I was taught that way. If i mistakenly touch a kato/chimta, etc with my foot I do the same i would do with a book..show respect. The way I see it we touch the stage we dance on and the dhol we play on..props to me are no different. Respect Bhangra and all it entails if you are passionate about it. Forget props...I agree with Meistro. Fighting at comps, beef between teams, fighting over judging, fighting with coaches or talking behind your teams back...all unnecessary. If you don't respect all of these things then respecting props isnt even in the question... that's just my two cents

 

[Jungly_Jatt]

Sunny Parmar +1

 

[Sandeep.M]

Sunny Parmar +1

hmm.. agreed

 

[Sandeep.M]

Although it's just a wooden object, it should be treated properly. I get sometimes throwing them happens... But it shouldn't always be thrown around yet it should be placed down in the stage while doing some sort of action so you and your team's bhangra doesn't look too messy. I wont say it's SO serious were people should be pointing their fingers at, but it does kinda matter, if you can respect the stage and what you do in and for bhangra, why can't you respect the things that make your bhangra BHANGRA and that makes our culture/tradition ? Just wondering haahha. But touching your bhangra props with your feet is totally a different thing.... Disrespect right there.. and i think everyone would kinda have to agree with that one. and if you'd want to respect your props it should be viewed that way; not touching it with your feet.

 

[Ak_Di_Nishani]

During performances when dancers kick props out of the way, I feel most of the time it's the pressure of the performance speaking, not so much the dancers respect. When you have a formation and see a prop in the way sometimes at that moment it seems like the best idea to move it out of the way. I personally feel the dancer shouldnt be bashed or hated on...it happens.

However i do admit that I am very strict with respecting instruments/props with my team just because I was taught that way. If i mistakenly touch a kato/chimta, etc with my foot I do the same i would do with a book..show respect. The way I see it we touch the stage we dance on and the dhol we play on..props to me are no different. Respect Bhangra and all it entails if you are passionate about it. Forget props...I agree with Meistro. Fighting at comps, beef between teams, fighting over judging, fighting with coaches or talking behind your teams back...all unnecessary. If you don't respect all of these things then respecting props isnt even in the question... that's just my two cents

that last bit was well said lilly