For Collegiate Teams...Roster Size???

[ambarishraja]

I was wondering what y'alls opinions are on an ideal roster size for a collegiate team. Keep in mind that collegiate teams are generally less talented/experienced b/c it isn't a group of ppl that have done bhangra before necessarily. Individual attention is needed, and you also have restrictions on practice time/location. In addition, you have to keep the roster small enough so that you give dancers enough opportunities to dance, whether it be campus shows, wedding fund raisers, or competitions. Thoughts? Specific numbers? Current methods?

 

[kinnell]

I think it depends more on the TYPE of college you go to and the TYPE of choreography. In addition, gender of your team matters a lot. All guy teams can get away with 8 dancers where co-ed teams, it's rare to see 4 girls and 4 guys. 16 guy/girl teams are more common than 16 all girl teams.

If you go to a STATE School, you have more talent available usually as opposed to smaller PRIVATE Schools. You need to maintain coordination so the amount of talent you have available counts a lot. I got to a sized 4000 UG School and I'm going with a 12 person team. (6 guys/6 girls). We have a load of Indian just because we're an engineering and pre-med school.

If you want to go more formation heavy (ie: Columbia, DRP), 16 helps a lot. If you want to emphasize more traditionality, 8 helps a lot since a lot of traditional formations work really well with 8. 12 is also a healthy number if you know you'll be performing on smaller stages or if you think you will have choreography that emphasizes steps over formations. And then you have the odder numbers of 10, 6 and 14 where you can differentiate yourself from the circuit because you can do formations that other teams cannot as well as still maintain a stage presence.

 

[zagreus]

I somewhat agree with what Kinnell wrote about team size. I agree that the size of the team is based on size of school and type of team.
But i would not say that a 16 person team is important to today's bhangra scene. Back in say, 2004 (just putting out the date), 8 guys/8 girls was always looked for. But due to constant testing and work done by 12 person teams, that has now become the norm. I would say today for a collegiate team, it would best to have 6 guys/6 girls. Although few teams have worked with less (and done it well).

Those numbers i stated are more for performance on stages/competitions. As a team, i would personally want to take on about 8-9 guys/8-9 girls, even if i want to run it with 6/6. Those numbers help you train that big a number, and when some people can't do gigs, other people can. That way the money train is always running. It's understandable that some people aren't good at bhangra when they join a team, but it'd take time. i'd invest time in new talent, and take time in doing so. competing just anywhere doesn't matter as much as getting everyone on the same page and ready to go.
Also, recently i've looked at how some teams are run, and it helps to make spots competitive. That way everyone is being put to use somehow, and they can't complain that they aren't being used. Eventually, you'd decide one way or another...but it works out better.

 

[ambarishraja]

good assessment...but what about backup dancers? what about creating a "minor league" where you can develop talent. Don't you think that should come into play when you're selecting the team size. I mean obviously you'll pick 6 and 6 or 8 and 8...but shouldn't you be concerned with conflicting schedules, and having understudies just in case?

 

[zagreus]

that's kinda why i would carry on so many more dancers. and for us, we're lucky that all our guys are also on independent teams and are trained by even more qualified individuals. and when they come out of that to collegiate practices, they're even better in helping out and understanding how to work in a context of a team. that tends to rub off on other people.

with conflicting schedules and stuff, it's clear that you'd have to schedule practices around it all...like, hell..early morning, or LATE LATE at night. if schedules still conflict, that person can't do it then. that person would have to create more time to do it.

a minor league sounds interesting, but again...just spend time training people and that's the only way for some people. and for understudies, you carry on more people, and have those people learn all the choreo. and the person who does it best, performs it. simple as that. keep the spots a little more competitive (like have 2 people to a spot and have them earn it), and it keeps practices more worthwhile for people.

 

[Waleed]

Just like everyone else said, you can tailor the size of your team to the dynamic of the dancers' pool you're selecting from (student population,talent,etc) but if I had to pick one, 6 & 6 is the best formula for a collegiate team.

 

[NSC]

Co-ed collegiate....6 and 6 OR 7 and 7. If you have 12 COMMITTED, skilled dancers, who choose to do bhangra as their main extracurricular activity and are dedicated to improving, this is the way to go. The reason why I would say 14 is in some cases the team of 12 does not fill the stage because of a few reasons such as the girls not dancing big enough....some guys lacking stage presence etc. The 12 as a unit must fill the stage with presence, nakhra, full actions, energy etc. Otherwise, it doesn't matter how great the choreo or formations are....the performance will look empty.

 

[kinnell]

I've started a minor league at my school. We call it the "JV Team" or the "Exhibition Team" and will be made of people who tryout for either the Raas, Bhangra or Fusion teams but are not selected for it. Through a variety of workshops and through coordination with the Raas and Fusion choreographers, we can train potential members who may make the team in years to come as well as give them an opportunity to learn and still perform.

 

[mafzal]

Less people is easier for practices and organization (and way cheaper $$$-wise) BUT the less people you have, the more attention on each person. So like on DRP (just naming them b/c they're huge 16) if one person sucks you don't see it compared to a team that's 4,5, or 6 each.

But then on the flipside, if you have less people you can give each person more attention and make them all great, if they're already good. So that balances out. With every number there's benefits and drawbacks.

I would definitely take alternates if you have enough people at tryouts. You never know when someone is gonna get busy and drop out, or not be able to attend a comp, etc. Definitelyyy try to have backups!

Best of luck, whichever number you choose will work out

 

[sorethighs]

If you want to run separate practices and workshops for an entire JV team while you're also running your own practices....best of luck, thats a lot of work for an unknown return.

I think its best to take 2-3 alternates. A couple people will flake off, a couple people won't be able to make shows and practices because of a rough month or busy exam schedules.

 

[ambarishraja]

The reason I ask this is because it is so hard to cut ppl who dont have experience but are picking up the dance slowly. We had 50+ ppl come to Bhangra Elite tryouts, and almost everyone has the ability to pick up the dance...some with more ability than others obviously. I just remember when I first started dancing, that I was straight terrible (not that I'm wicked good now). If you give freshmen/sophomores a chance to be on the team, they make huge strides in their first year just based on exposure alone. Obviously you can't keep 50 ppl on a team and have practices be efficient, but I tend to lean towards keeping anywhere from 20-30 ppl in hopes that they will steadily improve and possibly be able to contribute in future years. If you cut these people, who knows if they'll even come back the next year...the freshman mindset isn't really set up to take rejection too well.

 

[Havish]

I think it goes differently for each team and how many people tryout and what talent you got. If you have a lot of people trying out then try to keep any many as you can because you never know where the talent is going to come from, trust me I know this from experience with some of my dancers. Also if you have people that are willing to be dedicated to teach the alternate then have a lot of them so that they can improve.

Another factor for collegiate teams should be how many people are you going to lose after this year? like how many seniors you have that won't be able to dance the following year. You should take more alternates if you are going to lose more people that way the following year's team will be set without having a gap in talent because these alternates will have a year of practice under them.

 

[zagreus]

Havish makes a good point about attrition on teams. When seniors leave, you don't want to have to start all over with people...if you have some alternates that are comin' on strong, you're set. i know this is my last year, and i would like to make sure when i leave, there's plenty of talent left behind to take care of everything.
and ben makes a good point about people flaking out...they do. and when they do, cut them. you'd have alternates, and they're there to learn everything anyways.

 

[sorethighs]

Its not always that people flake out, some people just take a couple months off (ex: MCAT, job interviews) or know that they can't make a performance (3 exams the Monday after, wedding that weekend). You don't need to cut those people from the team entirely, you just need to take enough peope to allow for those to happen and not destroy your lineup.

 

[NSC]

First, I am completely against the idea of a "JV" bhangra squad/minor league. It creates a divide between the two groups that is not positive....no matter what there will be superiority/inferiority complexes that affect the overall chemistry of the group.....this can sometimes lead to bigger issues that affect friendships etc.

If a dancer can't make a local performance, no big deal, we went with who we had and adjusted formations (not that hard). If it was for a huge comp, we would know ahead of time....contact somebody who we thought had the ability to learn the dance in the time period (you should know this at least a month ahead of time), and made it happen. The downside to this is that if a last minute injury occurs, you are screwed unless you have an alternate, like sorethighs suggested. I was lucky that we never had to deal with that....but I'm sure other teams have, so alternates could def be valuable.

Also consider what year the prospective members are.....I know when I used to hold tryouts, if it came down to a few people with the same ability, we always went younger....by the time they are juniors, seniors, they will be seasoned vets, and this is a way to ensure that the future of the team is stable.

 

[kinnell]

First, I am completely against the idea of a "JV" bhangra squad/minor league. It creates a divide between the two groups that is not positive....no matter what there will be superiority/inferiority complexes that affect the overall chemistry of the group.....this can sometimes lead to bigger issues that affect friendships etc.

If a dancer can't make a local performance, no big deal, we went with who we had and adjusted formations (not that hard). If it was for a huge comp, we would know ahead of time....contact somebody who we thought had the ability to learn the dance in the time period (you should know this at least a month ahead of time), and made it happen. The downside to this is that if a last minute injury occurs, you are screwed unless you have an alternate, like sorethighs suggested. I was lucky that we never had to deal with that....but I'm sure other teams have, so alternates could def be valuable.

Also consider what year the prospective members are.....I know when I used to hold tryouts, if it came down to a few people with the same ability, we always went younger....by the time they are juniors, seniors, they will be seasoned vets, and this is a way to ensure that the future of the team is stable.

At my school, we have a clean divide on who will make the team and who wont because of the little talent that is available. Often times, it's easy to say who will 95% make the team before tryouts even happen. Thus, the JV team (which is also composed of bhangra/raas/fusion dancers) is essentially those who want to do it. They do not need to be selected for it.

Essentially, think of it as simply as a group of people who will constantly go to our workshops. If there are on-campus events when not all of our raas/bhangra/fusion teams can perform, the workshop team aka the JV team can perform. It's MORE of a benefit for them, and less for us choreographers. They want to dance, we give them the opportunity to LEARN and DANCE. As I said before, this is a collab between Raas, Fusion AND Bhangra Choreographers so those who want to hone their skills on all three can do so.

The JV team are not alternates for our competitive teams - separate entities. There is no drama nor shall there be.

 

[NSC]

At my school, we have a clean divide on who will make the team and who wont because of the little talent that is available. Often times, it's easy to say who will 95% make the team before tryouts even happen. Thus, the JV team (which is also composed of bhangra/raas/fusion dancers) is essentially those who want to do it. They do not need to be selected for it.

Essentially, think of it as simply as a group of people who will constantly go to our workshops. If there are on-campus events when not all of our raas/bhangra/fusion teams can perform, the workshop team aka the JV team can perform. It's MORE of a benefit for them, and less for us choreographers. They want to dance, we give them the opportunity to LEARN and DANCE. As I said before, this is a collab between Raas, Fusion AND Bhangra Choreographers so those who want to hone their skills on all three can do so.

The JV team are not alternates for our competitive teams - separate entities. There is no drama nor shall there be.

Ahhh...I see....thanks for explaining...seems like the situation works well for you all.

 

[Amit]

In the past our team used to take 12 and 12 for a performing team of 8 and 8 but it tended to be too many people. There would not be enough responsibility for each team member and since we competed for competition slots, there soon became a divide between the people that regularly performed and those that didn't (typically underclassmen).

This year we are aiming to take 10 and 10. In the past we've had people "flake out" so we are setting guidelines this season (e.g. Miss 3 practices, can't perform in upcoming competition) and we're also trying to delegate out more responsibilities. If we still need people, we'll have spring tryouts.

Hopefully, this way we have 4 alternates if we need them and everyone still feels as if they're contributing to the team.