Giving Teams Feedback

[Kaur]

In the thread about markers Kartik made a comment about giving teams feedback which got me thinking. So I went through the videos from the past few competitions and noticed that constructive feedback is rarley given to teams.

It is almost a popularity contest. The team who won will get pages of comments saying congrats, and the team who thinks the should have placed higher will have people telling them that they got robbed. Telling someone they got robbed just makes them more angry at the circuit and the judges. Instead you should tell them how they can improve and that even if the comp/judges want to rob them, they simply cant.

The teams who arent so 'popular' or dont know a lot of people on the circuit dont get enough feedback. Iam sure that the team who always gets 3rd or 4th is dying to know where they can improve.

Almost every dancer who has been on the circut for 4+ years thinks that they would make a great judge. I think you should start practicing by giving feedback.

Another issue I noticed was that if one person gives a team feedback and someone disagres with it they will get ino an argument over who is right. Everyone has their own opinion, leave it up to the team to decide what they want to take out of your feedback and what they dont.

Faizan stated : "the circuit vets have been critiquing and discussing for years. Its the new generation that needs to step up now. We simply dont have the time anymore. The newer/younger dancers need to step up and communicate in order to advance this circuit (which has been pretty stagnant of late). This lack of passion for discussion and lack of feedback will eventually lead in a major decline for the circuit (which in my opion is already underway) Were 2006-2011 the golden years? Could be"
I completely agree with him. It takes 10min review a video and help another team.

I also think that judges should watch videos of the competition they judged and send out detailed feedback to the teams. The meeting after the competition usually only allows each judge speak for 1min. It would be very helpful if judges could go back watch videos and elaborate on what they had mentioned. BUT once again a lot of them work fulltime with careers and dont have a lot of time to do so.

Juniors pick it up and help your fellow members of this 'fraternity' out!!!! And teams please be respecful to the criticism which is being given .

 

[Kartik]

BTF can be such a great resource for teams to learn and improve, but it doesn't really seem to be serving that purpose as of late. Faizan's comment points out the major ideological difference that has caused this and it's definitely a dangerous trend.

Especially for the younger dancers on this forum - it is an amazingly helpful process to review videos of other teams and try to understand what they did well and what they can improve on. Even the best teams can improve and if support is presented in a constructive way, they will.

It's also pretty fun to watch videos and comment, isn't it? Perhaps this expression is happening on other platforms such a FB etc. instead because BTF has turned into a place where REP matters so much. From what I remember, you're allowed to help each other out with feedback, not just rally for your own team or put down someone else. These days I feel I almost get more constructive criticism from facebook than BTF.

Anyways, hopefully enough people read this thread before it gets drowned with something spicier.

 

[sumeetj]

i feel like in te last year or maybe more, people have gotten scared of what people will think of them if they support other teams, etc. idk i felt like i coulda posted a video of my team a few years ago and gotten WAY more comments than what they do now, and im sure many other teams feel the same way. only a few big name teams (who people like to suck up to as well) get comments, and they are usually only ones like "that was sick" or just people echoing other peoples thoughts in agreement. people have lost the use of constructive criticism

 

[Ajay.H]

i feel like in te last year or maybe more, people have gotten scared of what people will think of them if they support other teams, etc. idk i felt like i coulda posted a video of my team a few years ago and gotten WAY more comments than what they do now, and im sure many other teams feel the same way. only a few big name teams (who people like to suck up to as well) get comments, and they are usually only ones like "that was sick" or just people echoing other peoples thoughts in agreement. people have lost the use of constructive criticism

I think it's this, plus maybe a fear of either being called out or that you don't know enough/haven't danced long enough to have a deserved opinion. It's a vicious cycle - The more people comment on a thread, the more comfortable people feel commenting on that thread, and vice versa.

I originally felt like that but in the end, I realized that's bullshit. I think teams should and do appreciate all constructive feedback. We want to please and impress EVERYONE - non-dancers, new dancers, veteran dancers, etc, so every single person can contribute productively. Someone who has never danced can make just as important comments about the routine as a veteran dancer who can scrutinize form on specific moves.

 

[Saab]

i feel like in te last year or maybe more, people have gotten scared of what people will think of them if they support other teams, etc. idk i felt like i coulda posted a video of my team a few years ago and gotten WAY more comments than what they do now, and im sure many other teams feel the same way. only a few big name teams (who people like to suck up to as well) get comments, and they are usually only ones like "that was sick" or just people echoing other peoples thoughts in agreement. people have lost the use of constructive criticism

I think it's this, plus maybe a fear of either being called out or that you don't know enough/haven't danced long enough to have a deserved opinion. It's a vicious cycle - The more people comment on a thread, the more comfortable people feel commenting on that thread, and vice versa.

I originally felt like that but in the end, I realized that's bullshit. I think teams should and do appreciate all constructive feedback. We want to please and impress EVERYONE - non-dancers, new dancers, veteran dancers, etc, so every single person can contribute productively. Someone who has never danced can make just as important comments about the routine as a veteran dancer who can scrutinize form on specific moves.

On top of all of this, not too many people want to voice opinions that possibly counteract public opinion of the routine(at least on here). With greater connectivity and a higher chance of seeing that same person at another comp, etc, people like to kiss ass and say the positives. It really doesn't add anything in terms of promoting better sets - essentially people are receiving a very general high five across the board. This is great, but really doesn't add value or provide the feedback necessary that gives value to a set.


Voice your opinions - any opinion that attempts to promote a positive image should be welcome and encouraged.

 

[yraparla]

One more note, I know that I tend to give my feedback in a more private manner (phone call, texts, emails, etc). This is as much about getting my point clearly across to a team as it is about worrying what people will think of what I have to say (if you've talked to me you know I'll tell you what I think, no bullshit, but it's hard to get tone right in a post).


The snowball effect works both ways, someone says something critical and that can be all anyone focuses on in future comments. I really care about helping teams improve with my feedback, so I prefer to do it off the forum because then they can ask questions and we can both learn from the discussion. Maybe I should put it on the forum more, but that's just been the best way to handle it so far.

 

[Arjun Barua]

Great topic!

Thank you, Kartik and Harkiran, for bringing this long-overdue discussion to the table. I daresay this could be the humble beginnings of a BTF renaissance... Rise up, young blood! The fate of our beloved forum is in your hands!

 

[mafzal]

One more note, I know that I tend to give my feedback in a more private manner (phone call, texts, emails, etc).
...Maybe I should put it on the forum more, but that's just been the best way to handle it so far.

If anything, post a quick 1 line saying that you will send an e-mail or that you have sent a private message. This way you can still speak privately, and encourage more people to provide feedback (by setting an example and also increasing the post count bringing it to more peoples' attention)

 

[Ajay.H]

One more note, I know that I tend to give my feedback in a more private manner (phone call, texts, emails, etc).
...Maybe I should put it on the forum more, but that's just been the best way to handle it so far.

If the goal is to really encourage other posters and make people feel comfortable giving critiques, it might be helpful for you and others to post at least part of your reviews on the forum and follow up in more detail privately. Teams and dancers can learn a lot from reading the critiques of other teams, and they can also witness how to give feedback in a constructive way, even if you're more blunt than others. They then have a video there to see for themselves how you, or any other poster, came to those conclusions and decide for themselves how they feel about it.

 

[voxanimus]

another thing i think is a contributing factor is this sense of cutthroatness and exclusivity that characterizes BTF. at one point, there used to be whole threads on here where people discussed song choices and teams would refer each other songs. that's totally gone. teams adamantly refuse, either consciously or unconsciously, to assist each other in any way possible. everything's become a hoarding game: how many sick songs can i hoard, etc.


i think this hoarding extends to feedback as well.

 

[Kaur]

I think teams need to be more respectful when receiving feedback. There have been many times when some of us veterans have given feedback and it doesnt sit well with the teams. Dheerja is right when she said its the new generation. At the end of the day we should all feel comfortable giving eachother feedback of any sort. I give feedback to almost every team but also in a private message like Swi. But I will start being more open about it, like Mariam said at least it will grab some attention

 

[mafzal]

everything's become a hoarding game: how many sick songs can i hoard, etc.

this could become a good thread of its own...

 

[smish18]

As someone who doesn't post on BTF often and is part of a small team from Iowa, I will say you guys are on point with the criticism of people only replying to the bigger teams, etc. I have posted our videos in the past and gotten some amazing feedback from people (Ram for FCB especially), which really shaped the way I approached choreo, teaching, etc. But lately, it's been hard to get more than a couple of comments on a video, especially when you see it has been viewed hundreds of times. This just discourages me from posting since I know I might get a comment or two (most likely asking for a song) but nothing more. I understand most people may not have something to say other than 'that was sick' (i'm guilty of that) or are just plain busy, but even those one line comments help build some confidence so everyone should do that at the very least


Also, this is a call for smaller/growing teams to start posting on here more frequently in order to improve yourselves and others. Our day shall come!

 

[siddyp]

I <3 you all! After this weekend, I'll begin offering more feedback. I def want to see the circuit improve on all accounts!

It is time for us all to help take bhangra to new heights!

 

[J-Skeet]

I <3 you all! After this weekend, I'll begin offering more feedback. I def want to see the circuit improve on all accounts!

It is time for us all to help take bhangra to new heights!

+1 to you, and new generation will step it up. We got this

 

[Saleem]

Great topic thanks for starting it. I agree completely, and like Arjun,hope for a BTF renaissance! BTF will always be there for what the community wants to make of it, but I'd be much happier if the constructive criticism flourished