Golden Temple or Golden Shame?

[jasminegtgs]

Hey check out the following two videos ... what do you think?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AlPAn2QhGcE

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=q2nMEtsOZVU

 

[Pooja]

Sorry but I thought that second video was dumb...

It's immature/unnecessary and really random actually...the temple is old...there's some wear and tear...I don't think a whole task force needs to be dedicated to revamping it...and I just went there and it looked just GRAND to me!

 

[pluthra]

so the 2 videos show really different perspectives....but the issue of long queue, people being pushed around, etc exists at even the smaller gurdwaras and temples. though i really dont think people realize that and i think its a good thing that they don't realize that.....they're there for 1 reason and that is to worship sure you wish you could help out every hungry person on the street as you walk out, and do something about the overally environment, yet if you leave thinking about that then whats the purpose of you going there.....then didnt you just miss out the purpose that wow look at the fact that there's so many people here to worship....im not even religious and im gonna say this but shouldn't u feel like here i am i should feel at 1 with god.....

all those other issues are a concern...but reconstruction is somewhat difficult...u can't just close it down but more than that....what about the areas around if they have money to reconstruct little things....then y not invest it into rebuilding the city and building institutions to help those without a shelter, set up schools for them, etc and maybe by providing housing they could in favor help do handiwork at the golden temple......u kno wat india is just in shambles it needs to be divided up, and reconstructed

 

[Gurvir]

i went to the golden temple a few years back and i thought it was amazing...obviously there is gonna be some where and tear but no need for reconstruction..if they really want to though, i would say maybe a paint job and thats it

 

[Rohit]

And i dunno if i believe the whole if your not sikh you'll not be welcome there.

 

[Summy]

First off, how disrespectful is the title. Before I go into the validity of the claims, no matter how badly it may appear, Harimandir Sahib will never be a shame for me.

Secondly, I have volunteered at Harimandir Sahib as should every sikh, and thats not the entire kitchen. Where they make roti is a little better looking. Should there be upgrades yes, but that is the way sikhs having been making daal for centuries, there also is a sense of pride in simplicity that many people who do seva there feel. If you think Harimandir Sahib is hygenic its not, nor is it meant to be. I can tell as someone who used to distribute water, and subji to people, the dishes are not washed very well. Everyone hears the loud banging after they leave the langar hall... these social constructs of everything should be modernized is stupid, and should be up to those who do seva there, not the people who want the asthetic nature of Harimandir Sahib to change. Either way it is not going to produce pious sikhs any more or less.


There defintely needs to be changes made though. I completly agree with the thought (not with the way they put it though in the film), that there are places in the complexes of Harimandir Sahib that needs to be fixed. Pooja said "wear and tear"... Its not a car, or a peice of furniture... Its harimandir sahib, and needs to be continously taken care of. Wear and tear is something that happens to your TV remote not to your holiest shrine.


This whole video is highly problematic, but has good points. It is hetic, but that shouldnt matter. The individuals shouldnt be throwing money, thats the lack of respect from the person. Other than radical reforms and increasing times for waiting, it is hard to enforce orderly lines without turning the religious place into a lineup for backstreet boys tickets. Having said that, there needs to be some sort of orderly line. Two gursikhs holding a stick shouldnt be the procedure. Having said that, dont treat it like a lineup for concert tickets, people should be free there.

This video has been done. These are old issues. These are things that have been brought up since the 60's. I think there needs to be a beautification project done to it, but we should focus more on what it means than how it looks.

--

Parul, india needs to be divided and reconstructed? Right. Explain that ridicolous notion. India needs to be unified and that unity needs to be promoted. India is as much as it is my country as a miniority sikh, as it is a majority hindu's or a minioirity muslim. Why you think india needs to be divided and broken is insane, especially from a majority hindu, which is more boggling. If my mother is sick, I rather make her better, than abandon her right?

 

[Navi Sandhu]

I definitely agree with Summy. There are certain changes that can be made to Harimandir Sahib, but it's also very difficult to to beautify and maintain it with the daily hustle and bustle.

The second video is exaggerated in terms of the rush..it was probably made on a Gurupurab or some sort of religious holiday. Yes, the long lines can get frustrating, but it usually doesn't come to a standstill as the video portrayed it.

I really don't understand the message of the second video though. Are they trying to point fingers the maintainers of the Golden Temple or insult the Sikh population for being "careless" about the "unkempt" state of the Gurudwara?

 

[Rohit]

I really don't understand the message of the second video though. Are they trying to point fingers the maintainers of the Golden Temple or insult the Sikh population for being "careless" about the "unkempt" state of the Gurudwara?

I don't think the video is trying to create a religious uproar and pointing fingers at any religion although a lot of the arguments may compel u to think otherwise.

Summy I totally agree with you BUT i think you might have gotten Parul's msg wrong. (Well from my take of the last part of her message I thought she meant that India needs to be divided up and taken care of bit by bit, which was also an argument propsed previously where the debate came up what state would you do first, had she said that abt the Golden Temple then I would ask where would you start first? what portion can be cut off for a certain period of time for maintence??)

 

[- Raja -]

Guru Ji's said that anyone, no matter who you are, is welcome to Gurdwara, to any Gurdwara. We should focus on why we goto the Gurdwara and why we do seva instead of all of this.

 

[pluthra]

Parul, india needs to be divided and reconstructed? Right. Explain that ridicolous notion. India needs to be unified and that unity needs to be promoted. India is as much as it is my country as a miniority sikh, as it is a majority hindu's or a minioirity muslim. Why you think india needs to be divided and broken is insane, especially from a majority hindu, which is more boggling. If my mother is sick, I rather make her better, than abandon her right?

no no nooo not like that.....i'm saying that well u know how the UN splits up the world by countries-well thats b/c the world is divided like that....but they split it apart to work on....its like a puzzle u can't just choose anything to start from u need to work on parts of it before putting it all back together......so basically if one were to divide india into sections to focus on for improvement this would allow (if people were committed enough) groups to go out and focus on that one section....and if say India was broken into 50 pieces...there would be 50 groups out there helping the section to improve.......this way it would allow for each group to focus on how can we help.....like if it was just one group helping out they'd have to be everywhere....and the solution for what helped in northern india may not be a solution for the south......but the idea was all for improving the country by taking little parts and dividing the work up, in no way did i mean "broken" as in separating people....this idea seems great i think i should do research on how i can help out...any1 know of any organizations

 

[tajinder]

i agree with u raja.

 

[Tuckerrrr]

i think it's a shame that women can't do certain types of sewa at harminder sahib. summy, as much as many people would like to volunteer there, 50% of them can't because they are women. i think it's backward and it's a shame to all sikhs that our "holiest shrine" (even though there's no such thing in sikhi...no gurdwara is more holy than another place where the guru is present) doesn't even follow sikhism. men and women are equal in sikhi, but not in our gurdwaras?

 

[rajkaran]

I've read some of the comments and I agree with most of them. Here's my two cents:

The kitchen issue: I agree with Summy to a certain extent. That's how daal/roti have been made for ages...it's a little like street food. And let's not lie to ourselves...it tastes SO good! Also, I'm more than sure that these filmers went to the grungiest looking parts of the kitchen and filmed...and the depressing music in the background only made it seem more horrible. However, in my opinion I thought those langar kitchens were decently clean for India's standards...Lastly, langar is supposed to be very simple and definitely not an extravagant meal. No one should expect a "clean" meal (especially since it's free). If your stomach cannot handle the "atmosphere" of langar, no one is forcing you to eat it...as long as you understand the concept, it should be fine. p.s...isn't the parshad at Harminder Sahib the most heavenly delicious parshad in the WORLD?!

Second Video: The first few minutes kind of ticked me off because it made it somehow was trying to link the problems of Punjab's drug abuse problem with the condition of Golden Temple (or sumthing like that)...wtf? I went to Harminder Sahib 9 years ago and thought it was spectacular (more so than the Taj Mahal, in certain areas). But with 40 million visitors each year, and not much donation going into the maintenance of the Temple, one can only expect a few spots to be a littler battered. As for the queue problem, it's inevitable. Hundreds of people at a time are anxious to get darshan or offer their prayers. And like Summy said, it just disrespectful to throw money (and also a hazard to others, i think). Finding a decent, non-violent system which people can follow is just going to take time...and even more effort to implement. And Raja's post is very true. I guess it all comes down to trying to educate the people (which is very hard...and will also take lots of time/effort). Though these videos bring up some good points, they definitely don't do that great of a job.

i think it's a shame that women can't do certain types of sewa at harminder sahib. summy, as much as many people would like to volunteer there, 50% of them can't because they are women. i think it's backward and it's a shame to all sikhs that our "holiest shrine" (even though there's no such thing in sikhi...no gurdwara is more holy than another place where the guru is present) doesn't even follow sikhism. men and women are equal in sikhi, but not in our gurdwaras?

Hmm...I didn't know that women couldn't do all seva! that's a bit weird. What types of seva are you talking about? I'm interested...


just my two cents...feel free to disagree,
rajkaran

 

[COMTONDAJATT]

Something sad is going to other historically important gurudwaras and see the state they are in. When something starts breaking they put ceramic bathroom tiles all over it. It is pretty sad that not much attention is paid to them, broke my heart. SGPC are theives.