Happy Birthday India?

[ranjit singh]

Here is a note that a friend of mine wrote. He is not speaking on behalf of all Sikhs, but is sharing a perspective that I and many others are in agreement with:

Tomorrow will mark 61 years of Indian independence. This is a statement of fact, but should it be a statement for celebration? As a Sikh, I cannot say that I will celebrate India's 61st birthday. This does not mean that I do not respect India, or the sacrifice made for this independence (80% of people hanged were Sikh). It simply means that I believe that India has not taken its mandate for freedom and transformed it into a free society. India today is not a democracy for all, it is a democracy for the majority. Minorities have few rights.

I will point to the fact that the Sikh religion does not constitute a separate religion under the civil code as the most telling indication of discrimination. Sikhs deserve recognition as a separate community. We recognize Hindus as our brothers, just as we recognize all humanity as one, but we are a distinct community. To deny this fact is a slap in the face to Sikhs everywhere.

In 1947, the Sikhs had the option for their own homeland. Sadly, the Sikh leadership at the time trusted the Gandhi-Nehruvian doctrine of equal rights for all. Nehru and Gandhi never hesitated to praise Sikhs for their martial qualities and fundamental role in Indian independence. Once the Sikh leadership cast their lot with Nehru and Gandhi, however, their attitude shifted 180 degrees.

Suddenly, the goal became assimilation. Right from independence, Sikhs were considered a backwards and wayward race that needed to be assimilated into mainstream Hindu culture. This poisonous attitude informed the policies of the prime ministers from Nehru and onwards.

While the injustices against Sikhs were entrenched into the constitution and the ruling class's mindset from 1947, in 1984, the unthinkable happened. India, with its free and independent media and powerful army, attacked the holiest shrine in Sikhism, the Golden Temple.

I can forgive them for attacking a building, albeit a place of worship. I can forgive them for their rationale that they were trying to maintain peace and order. But I cannot forgive them for their barbarity. The unnecessary destruction in Amritsar that day fueled worldwide condemnation.

There would have been more widespread condemnation had not India Gandhi done a horrible misdeed.
In a supposedly free country, Indira Gandhi denied all foreign media entry to the Punjab. She quelled any dissenting voices, and created false reports of Sikh excesses. This is a country which claims to be the world's largest democracy?

Without freedom of the press, there is no democracy. That injustice, 24 years ago, is still fresh in the Sikh mindset. 250,000 Sikhs were killed. Why should any Sikh celebrate Indian independence?

Sikhs were the pride of British India. Everyone respected Sikhs, and they were held in high regard. The Nehru-Gandhi dynasty poisoned the public mindset against Sikhs, and casted them as outcasts in a society they helped build.

So, on this occasion of India's 61st independence, I would like to take this moment to remember 250,000 souls that perished in the name of Indian democracy. May they rest in peace, and the flag of the Sikh nation remain jubilant. Any government that wishes ill for the Sikhs, the Sikhs will not wish ill back. But they will demand justice.

 

[Summy]

I agree with many things throughout the message for sure, but I dont agree with the overall sentiment.


First lets get to the things that are commendable about what he wrote. Firstly, stating that he did not speak on behalf of all sikhs was very smart and respectable. Secondly, he outlined the atrocities done against our people very well. I dont agree with some of the generalization in his peice like Miniorities have "few" rights. While he may believe it is a lot of the miniroities, a lot of miniority Indians have seen prosperity, including a lot of sikhs. So its a huge generalization but I understand his sentiment and agree with it.

I like how he pharsed that he could forgive them for attacking Harimandir sahib but could not forgive them for their barbarity. Very true, speaks to what alot of us sikhs can identify with. Nobody should forget those days, but the only problem I have are those who lets those days hinder progress.

I agree with the majority of the peice but I think there was an underlying tone that I didn't agree with.

Second of all, lets get to things that are highly problematic about the post. "Sikhs were the pride of British India. Everyone respected Sikhs, and they were held in high regard"... Umm, no. Acutally sikhs were insulted and taken advantage of like the rest of the inferior Indians. Thats a VERY irresponsible statement to make I think, knowing Indian history and knowing what Sikh went through especially in punjab where the Raj tried to quiet revolts there and Bengal, it hurts to read that. We were jailed for no reason, massacared in Amritsar, our holy book was urinated on, General yelled they would massacare all of Punjab again if they needed to..

These are things that speaks differently than "Everyone respected sikhs, and held in high manor". If he is reffering to other indians, then as we were all the suboordinate class, we would have defintely banned together. But the underlying tone, that sikhs were somehow better off, or treated better during the british raj, really made me think twice about the validity of his feelings.



He said we should not celebrate India's freedom... Alright fine, lets run with that. Are we claiming we are better off in the British Raj? If someone is claiming that British Emperialism in India was a much better situation than what we face today, I would really beg to differ. Sometimes the recentness of the atrocities by the government in 84 would led us to forget what the British did to us. They insalved us. Its almost as claiming that blacks in the south were better off during slavery days because they have reduced rights in the States today. While I agree our rights are not there, if we assume for one millisecond that we are better off as slaves in the Raj we have forgotten history.


I am not proud of the majority of the Indian government. Never have been. Forget us sikhs for a minute, Indra Gandhi screwed over a huge populus of India with the faulty state of emergency she decleared, amongst a thousand other things she did. The problem is why people are hesitant to celebrate India's independence.



We are not celebrating our government. We are not celebrating the repressive acts. We are not celebrating the atrocities or anything like that. We are not adhering to what they want us to do. We are are celebrating TRIUMPH. We are celebrating banning together regardless of religion, creed backgroudn for the betterment of all. WE ARE CELEBRATING THE IDEOLOGY THAT THE AUTHOR BEGS FOR IN INDIA. We are celebrating community. We are celebrating the fact that people althroughout India, be it us in the North to the protests in the south, that took us away from the grips of slavery from the British to today. While strides in India need to be taken, we should not pretend as if we are experiencing ZERO prosperity. That is not reality, our religious rights are suffering but slowly they are getting better, not that I am happy with the situation today.

But we are celebratin those brave people that lost their lives so we werent force to work for people we dont want. We werent force to see our holy book insulted. We werent forced to have our pughs slapped off our heads and be stomped on. So we werent forced to live in slavery....


This why we celebrate the INDEPENDENCE of India, and not the current situation of India.


I truly think to not celebrate, to not give thanks to those ordinary people who became hero's because of atrocities made by OTHER people, in TODAY's world, is the most ultimate disrespect. I appreciate the fact that the author said that he does appreciate the sacrifice, but the undertone of the peice speaks is disrespectful (even though I am sure he didnt mean for it to be)...


We as sikhs share many problems that other religious miniorities face in the world. But only in the Punjabi diaspora do I get a feeling that people enjoyed or preferred what "could" be or what our situations was previously...


I agree with his notions of inequality that needs to be addressed but not celebrating the independence from the shackles of slavery is not the way, in my humblest opinion, to show your frustration.

Cheers,
Summinder.

 

[Summy]

oh and p.s. for all the bhangra fans... nothing beats the celebrations in punjab, they sing and dance in the streets, all the melay are insane, its a truly special occassion, people go insane, its like a wedding some places...

not to take away from the dicussion though. who wants to miss out on those celebrations... anyone ever spend india day there?

Oh and it was independence day for Pakistan yesterday.

 

[Chidiya]

Happyyyy 61th Indiaaa!

Bharat Zindabad!

 

[ranjit singh]

Hey Summy,
I agree with a lot of what you said.

I too found his statement - "Sikhs were the pride of British India. Everyone respected Sikhs, and they were held in high regard" - to be problematic and a huge generalization.

In his defense though, prior to the 1919 massacre in Amritsar, many Sikhs voluntarily fought for the British during World War 1. I think close to around 80,000 turban wearing Sikhs died, and another 100,000 injured, fighting for the British. Many Sikhs/Sikh regiments received high distinction and praise for their valor. I think this is where the pride he is talking about stems from. Regardless, I don't think anyone would argue that Sikhs are better off under repressive British colonial rule.

The main issue is that thousands of Sikhs - innocent men, women and children - were murdered in broad daylight by well-prepared and organized gangs in India's capital, New Delhi, and in over forty cities around the country. Not to mention the many innocent Sikhs who perished during Operation Blue Star. To date, the criminals, though identified, continue to work for the police, military and the highest levels of the government (including the ruling party), and enjoy impunity. The Gujarat riots are another perfect example of this. The fact that this has occurred in the "world's largest democracy" is absurd and we must continue to fight for justice.

Don't get me wrong, I think that India is a great country and has tremendous potential. We should definitely celebrate all the positives that India has to offer and its freedom from British rule, but at the same time we should not turn a blind eye to the rampant corruption and injustice that takes place.

For another interesting perspective on India's independence, read the following article by Partha Banerjee---"60 years of fake freedom"
http://countercurrents.org:80/banerjee090807.htm

 

[Manjot]

Happy Birthday INDIA!!!;D

 

[Vick]

So by not celebrating Indian Independence day, are you basically saying you wished the British continued to rule over the land? If thats the sentiment being passed along by that essay, that guy is retarded...

 

[ranjit singh]

So by not celebrating Indian Independence day, are you basically saying you wished the British continued to rule over the land?

no, that would be a gross misinterpretation of the essay

 

[Vick]

The dude obviously isn't very happy with the history thats occured... Maybe he liked the way Indians were treated pre-independence? Honestly, there comes a time when for the good of the nation you give up your aspirations... This sentiment of Sikhs wanting Independece from India(or denouncing the Indian government) isn't really going to lead to much... Let's be real, there is not going to be a Khalistan. It's just going to lead to a civil war. Why cant the Sikhs in India come together and try to fix severed ties with the Indian government, focus on the future? You can't change the past, but you can control the future. If you keep living 60 years behind everyone, nothing good is going to come out of it... I'm not just saying this to the Sikhs, but to all other groups/areas that want some sort of Independence from another country... I'm not the biggest fan of the Indian government, I cant stand their inefficiency. For a country with the smartest brains in the world, India is far behind what it should be. But what I do see is a country that is trying to become something better. It is trying to shed it's past and move on. That country needs to come together in a time like this, the next 20 or so years are crucial for India and China...

 

[Ashveer]

Punjab would not be as prosperous as it is today if it were not for the British, and there would be no diaspora...for better or worse.

 

[ranjit singh]

great points Vick, i agree wholeheartedly with a lot of what you said

but at the same time, the indian government should take full responsibility for its actions and do its part in mending severed relationships.
the indian citizenry can only do so much.

 

[Chidiya]

but at the same time, the Indian government should take full responsibility for its actions and do its part in mending severed relationships.

so what happens after taking full responsibility? does it just go away? Also, when you say "the Indian government" who are you talking about..the people in office TODAY or the ones that WERE in office during the tragic events?

I say it's about time to move on and work HAND IN HAND, no matter what religion and region.

 

[Vick]

great points Vick, i agree wholeheartedly with a lot of what you said

but at the same time, the indian government should take full responsibility for its actions and do its part in mending severed relationships.
the indian citizenry can only do so much.

Well the Prime Minister is Sikh... If he can't figure it out now, it's never going to happen... The Sikhs have one of their own in power, this is the time to mend fences and solidify a solid future...

 

[Arjun Barua]

Happy Birthday INDIA!!!;D

Ahahahahaha did no one else notice that 'Christianity' was spelt 'ChriSTAINnity' ?

 

[Summy]

See this is the problem with sometimes disagreeing with those who think that Independence shouldnt be celebrated, the VALIDITY of their feelings becomes forgotten.

Everyone should recognize what Ranjit said, NOBODY should a blind eye to what the Indian government has been doing. Really, if it comes down to it, in some crazy hypothetical that if I celebrate India's independence, I am sweeping the atrocities of the government under the rug, than I rather NOT celebrate it. If celebrating the independence of India is going to make people forget what has occured via the government, then, I wont be happy to celebrate the independence of India.

THe Delhi riots are something that should open up people's eyes to how bad it is/was for us. Personally, like the author, I can kinda, (not really) get over Operation Bluestar. I suppose there is very little justification for keeping the peace, but personally I didnt really agree with what they were doing in Harimandir Sahib so I guess I understand what the government felt, NOT what they did. But i can NEVER EVER forget the 84 riots, which to me were worst, personally. Because it went from big no name government committing the atrocities, to common day people. It showed two things a) places where there are less miniorites created some sort of ideology of a homogenus culture which led to the massacaring of innocent people via government help and b) people must have been exposed to some sort of hate culture to do what they did. The way the media spun it, showing TWO SIKHS, rather than TWO INDIANS, and the religiously centered propaganda that led to the riots, I cant understand that. I never will, and thats one of the reasons I want to in some way support what the author said, to make sure these stories get told, and never forgotten.

Like Ranjit said, we cant turn a blind eye to whats going on. If I ASK for pride, from people who are feeling like they should have none, then it is the obligation and the right to those who asked for it, to somehow ensure they actually feel pride. We must make sure wholly that my community is at peace with what is going on in India, and while the majority may feel like that in INdia, thats still not enough.


"Punjab would not be as prosperous as it is today if it were not for the British, and there would be no diaspora...for better or worse."
- WHAT?! EXPLAIN THAT BEFORE I EXPLODE. I AM SURE SOMEONE CAN LOOK AT PUNJAB PRE-COLONIALISM IE- MAHARAJ RANJIT SINGH, AN POST COLONIALISM AND REALIZE SOMETHING INBETWEEN REALLY SCREWED US OVER, BUT WE WILL SEE WHAT JUSTIFICATION IS MADE FOR THAT STATEMENT".




I look at it like this... If we look at America, one can argue the amount of atrocities by the Indian government in 61 years, is somewhat comparable to what America has done to their people. In 61 years of recent American history, Racism was justified, slavery in some discrete form continues even today, when ppl need their government the most after Katrina, the inferior race was left to die on their own, I can go on FOREVER for the last 61 years. But when the 4th of July comes, people are happy. You guys see the flag, and you see PROGRESSION.

In my eyes, nobody is taught from birth in the West, of the atrocities of the American government. It wont be in your texts, not now and not in university. The Internet is somewhat of a new source and I can contribute to some change of thinking to that new media source, however, nobody in the west will fully understand what America has done. As patsy's we are led to thought that the east are below us. The pakistan's, india's, the china's etc... What the white superiors have done is implanted this notion that WE ARE FREE, WE ARE GREAT, YOU MAY BE FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY, BUT WE ARE AWESOME, and the east, well, they are in ruins... We'll if we look at it COMPREHENSIVELY, the American government have contributed a lot more to the dissipation of Human Rights in the world, than India. Yet, we are shocked when one may say, I am not celebrating the 4th of july for these reasons

HOWEVER, what must be understood is that there is no more right or more wrong. They are both wrong. Thats the bottom line.


When I say I celebrate India' independence, it is to celebrate Bhagat Singhs dream, Udham singhs dream, and the community that we displayed in the preceeding years as a nation. Thats what I celebrate. Just like Americans, I do not celebrate our current country because if that were the case, I would not be a very happy man.

Cheers.

 

[Summy]

P.S. One more thing...

I just want to say that for those who keep some sort of neutrality, and dont speak to a separatist, isolationist tone when they critisize the Indian history, and still profess some sort of affection for their country... these people are the true patriots. I would argue they love our country more than the normal person does, because they understand what is wrong, and they choose to fix it. I dont know if Ranjit would admitt this, but after reading his response to my post, I think he has alot more love for India then alot of people here. If he is tryinig to fix the problem without saying, lets bail, thats commendable.

Its like if your kid is sick. You can pretend the problem is not there, letting your ego win, and let it get worst, or if you truly love the thing, you can try to make it better.

So lets not get it confused that those who critisize (in a certain manner, dont like the isolationists) are un-patriotic, many of him have this deep love that is waiting to be expressed.

 

[Naveen Singh Khokhar]

Doesn't the Indian constitution still not recognize Sikhism as a separate religion? I remember reading it once and it had it under Hinduism as a sect. Can anyone confirm that?

 

[pluthra]

P.S. One more thing...
Its like if your kid is sick. You can pretend the problem is not there, letting your ego win, and let it get worst, or if you truly love the thing, you can try to make it better.

So lets not get it confused that those who critisize (in a certain manner, dont like the isolationists) are un-patriotic, many of him have this deep love that is waiting to be expressed.

i like this example alot....and i really dont understand why for 1 day people can't just look at all the good things that happened without bringing up the bad.....sure its really optimistic to do so.....but its a birth of a nation...its like the birth of a child shouldn't it be looked as a joyous occasian

its just sad to watch tv and then u see some1 i love pakistan and its a celebration of india's independence day and every1 goes omggggggg no u didnt!!! but i gotta say seems like the celebrations were definetly lackingggg!!!!!!!!! and b/c of this whole thing that ppl got against celebrating...maybe in 2047 we can actually have a good indepence day