Help kill an immigrant and get only 150 days in Jail: Hate Crimes in the US of A

[Summy]

Satender Singh, a Fijian born man of Indian decent. The 26 year old immigrant was fatally injuried in Sacremento, California, after a confrontation with someone which started as verbal insults and led to a murder.

On July 1st, Singh, who is a sikh man of Indian descent, along with 6 other friends of Indian decent enjoyed an informal gathering in a park in Sacramento. Travelling by were a group of russian males who made homophobic comments towards Satendar and the group because they were dancing to Indian music, pure speculation has the music known as Bhangra.

Whether Singh was gay or not in unclear, and nor should it matter. It seems like the media who decided to pick up this story has decided to label him as a gay immigrant. With articles printed with the names " Gay Immigrant Satender Singh killed in Holiday Hate Crime" it makes me wonder why the heck are some people even proud to be American anymore?


If dancing Bhangra makes you gay, then this is the most homosexual website on the face of the earth. The fact that the media has decided to run with this story as the "gay" immigrant, is truly disgusting. What is even more disgusting than that?

The man who was alleged to be one of the perpetrators of the event, Aleksandr Shevchenko, was found guilty of misdemeanor assault and disturbing the peace . Yeah no shit, disturbing the PEACE. The reason why he was given a lighter sentence? It isn't believed that he was the one who gave the fatal blow.

WHAT?

Oh by the way, the guy who supposedly gave the fatal blow... Escaped to Russia. He's free.


What is it about hate crimes in the USA that doesn't seem to bother miniorities? I completely understand why Jon Benet Ramsey is more important than the approximately 1000 miniority children that are reported missing each year. It's because, even as miniorities, we value white skin, and the white person a lot more. Those with accents? Fobs. Those who adhere to Indian values in a western land? Dippers. Those who try to bring plight of their ancestary to the people responisble? Preachers.


I am almost positive, that unless you live in that area, nobody heard about this story.


Is the USA the most racist community in the world? In order to be racist, you must have a melting pot of different people, but I am completely ready to give the US that label, unless somebody is ready to convince me otherwise... Not just in murders, in jobs, in treatment of miniorities, is the USA the WORST in the WORLD?

Satender Singh's murderer got 150 days in Jail... When killing innocent whites in parts of the states will get you life and even the chair.

Somebody bring me out of the depths of despise for American culture.

 

[Temurzai]

Re: Help kill an immigrant and get only 150 days in Jail: Hate Crimes in the US

thats fuckin terrible. ive said it before, ill say it again. america goh khordan.

 

[Gugu]

I remember this, since it happened in my hometown. The guy did escape to Russia, without facing any repercussions. My mom works with this russian guy who apparently knew the guys involved. Its a pretty damn terrible story.

 

[yraparla]

worst in the world Summy? really?

Sudan? Baltics? Tibet?

it's a tragic story made more tragic by it's frequency (see: stupid jock white boys in pennsylvania). but the fact that it was reported, that it was even taken to court, and that there was punishment puts us far and above most of the rest of the world. The fact we can complain about it puts us ahead of china. And the fact that we're angry about it but not blowing the shit out of things makes us better than half of europe, which is about to descend into chaos within the next 15 yrs.

I am proud to be an American, and happy to live here. Is it tough for immigrants? yes. But American history has consistently shown it takes a full generation (usually 2) to truly assimilate a CULTURE, not just the people. The irish, italians, russians, germans, etc. Everyone went through it; the Indian/South Asian immigration really began in the 70s but exploded in the 90s with a new wave of young FOBs with technical skills that allowed them to avert the usual poverty of a new immigrating cohort. This has led to a lot of tension obviously thanks to a poorly performing economy over this decade.

I'm not trying to justify what they did, I'm not even answering your challenge that America is racist. But the most racist? see: France, or even many Middle East nations.

How about the plight of Indian workers in Dubai, Qatar? Where's the anger there?

 

[Summy]

Swi,

Look at my question for carefully, and not you, but I have a problem with kids these days not understanding the semantics of prejudice claims. I said racist.

All the problems you claim are within one race, and often lay in some other intersectional aspect like religion, ethnicity etc...

But I am talking RACist. The only one I think you have stem with is France. However, many would argue their treamtment of racial miniorities are much better than the USA. Xenophobic ideologies are DEEPLY embedded in europe, but what they benefit from as oppose to the USA, Canada and other countries is that they have a relatively homogenus country racial compared to our countries. I think the treatment of France's racial miniorities is defintely up there with the USA, and we go go into it, but I defintely think that the USA still has a legal, social and moral lock on the actions of France.

 

[yraparla]

good point Summy (although Sudan does have different races, ethnicities, and religions interplayed)

and I know you didn't really call me out, but just to be clear I know I sort of skirted your question:

I'm not even answering your challenge that America is racist

you're right that I was really focusing on more immigration in general. I think if we take your question at its base reading, then yes America is most racist, but for reasons that may surprise you.

2 things Summy I think are worth having some discussion on:
1. What is race
2. What defines a racist

seems obvious, but I don't really think so.

For my part, I don't believe there is inherently any race. What I mean by inherently is that I don't believe there is a genetic or biological or even physiological determiner of race. Don't believe me? See: Barack Obama. He's half-African half-White-Kansas, what does that make him? Why black? Because there is something more to race than simple genetics.

It's called Othering. Race is determined by the majority, or those with control and power. The simplest way to categorize people is ethnicity and skin color, so those are the two largest factors in determining race. But, really, if centuries ago people were categorized more by their ability to retain the number pi....then we'd have non-physical factors playing a huge role in race. I hope I'm being clear on this point. My argument is that race is arbitrarily determined by the Occident, while the Orient is subjugated to its will (I'm borrowing from Edward Said here because I'm struggling to express myself).

The Occident has long been the white man, and from indigenous peoples (I hate the term Native American) to slaves to now, ethnically different immigrants (indians, mexicans, central americans), the Orient has been defined by those different from the Occident. The reason Race defines primarily color and ethnicity is cause the global Occident is the white man (US, Europe, etc.) so the common interpretation of the word 'race' reflects that.

Even though whites are not homogeneous, they were not always one race as you pointed out for Irish, Russian, etc. The Irish were once considered a backwards RACE that was created when 'God rested on the 7th day and needed to relieve himself'. But eventually, the differences were marginalized and the Occident stopped differentiating against them and the Irish were incorporated into the 'white race'. So the idea that there is something inherent to differentiate people into races is a faulty assumption built INTO THE WORD. So it needs to be used carefully and requires some extra specificity that ethnic/gender/national parsing does not require.

In your rebut to my Dubai/Qatar question, I assume you were implying that Indians and Arabs (and the other ethnicities in the region) are all one race. This is where we disagree. Race for me separates the Occident and the Orient, and there, the Occident are the primarily Muslim-Arab (I don't really know much about the other ethnicities in the region so I'm just using Arab here). The Orient is anyone NOT Muslim-Arab, i.e. Indian. So I personally believe that though they may not use the word race to describe their difference, they are in fact being racist.

But what does being racist mean? What a clever segue to my second question....


This has been a looooong ass post and I apologize that I rambled and went all over the place. I'd like to get some thoughts first before diving into what being racist/is America racist means, because how we define race (or rather how the white man defines it) is crucial for critical analysis of our society. Too many times we simply proscribe to the FOX or CNN spoon-fed analysis of race and the truth is that it's bullshit.

We've all learned about race incorrectly thanks to hypersensitive Jesse Jackson and douchebag Rush Limbaugh and the media networks that proliferate the nonsense

 

[Summy]

God bless you Swi, me and you brother, one day, we need to grab a coffee. I completely agree with what you said and let me further divulge and share my appreciation for your post and your thinking and why you just slapped me in the face.

Listen, sometimes... hold on... let me catch my breath, Im mad at myself right now. Ha. Sometimes I talk down to the BTF people (not implying any sort of superiority as vain as my statement might sound). It is just from POL to BTF, I have been explaining myself for too long, and so I adhere to the vocabulary that makes me get my question, thought or opinion across.

I COMPLETELY argee, Race is an ambigious term. Race in its every sense is a word drenched in the stench of inferiority. It is a word that is used so the world can imply inferiority on other people, its history to its use today. Believe it or not, race was once classified on facial expression, skin colour to even hair texture. Everyone who knows me, knows the number one thing I am against is....... NOTIONS OF IMPERIALISM. Think the NUMBER ONE determinant of our thinking as miniorities today, are notions that embedded in us from Imperialisitic thinking. Why was I so against the N word when others saw it as inspiring? Imperialistic notions. Why did I see myself as rightful to stand up against the conatations of that word? Imperialistic notions.

Race is a word and a thought based in Imperialistic notions. I, myself, never believed in that word. If we talk about it semantically, it is a taxonomic classification, and therefore, by definition, we are the "human" race, and blacks, whites etc.. It makes no sense. Lets leave that for a minute.

You want to know where the beginnings of racial and inferiority based classfication came from? European imperialism. The Atlantic slave trade saw people of different backgrounds displaced all over the world. As ancestory built up in countries, there was a huge incentive in order to justify to subordination of Africans all over the world. Europeans, the domniant group began to separate "race" into physical apperances. Keeping europeans, white skined, straight hair, as one race, where the africans and enslaved people as another race. What was furthered with this classification? The thought that physical apperance implied differences in morality, thought processes, intelligence, worth etc... From the conception of today's classifcation of race, it is built in that one set of people are superior to another set.


Now, we can go to the sociological aspect, the cultural and the scientific aspects that divluge into race, but people dont have time for that.

So let's look at Swi's questions:

What is race? Race is a classification. If we are accepting today's notions of race, we are adhering to imperialistic mentality, which again burns my skin.

But there must be some sort of non-inferior classfication of the differences between Anglo and miniorites (even though the term miniorities is highly problematic as well).

What is a term that we can all come to agreement on? People of different ethnicities? nope. Ethnicity is also a term that can spread across a vast number of people, and doesnt get at the core of my assertion.

I know what I use when I talk to people, for the sake of furthering this conversation what do people think? How would you like to be classified?


-------

When I am getting at with the US and other nations is that for a land that is seen as so progressive, our values, from the top to the bottom are very regressive. We are not the nation we think we are. We are not of equal oppertunity, we are not of equality. Our founding fathers, the constitution, it is BASED thinking that supports the downfall of the miniorities of the country...

As people who do not subscribe and should not ever to the notions that we are inferior, why are we so readily proud of something that has systemically been treating us as subordinate for as long as history has recorded?

---

Swi thanks for slapping me in the face haha. I hope we can defintely continue this convo buddy.

 

[HarmanSingh]

Re: Help kill an immigrant and get only 150 days in Jail: Hate Crimes in the US

Nice conversation Summy/Swi. I agree completely with both of you on the mis education over what exactly race/racism is. I have even heard some people claim "racism" when talking about religion...stupidity.

Since you guys have pretty much expressed what I feel classifies race, I will comment on the actual story here.

America's history is a history of hatred and racism. Any way you want to slice it. From the pushing of Indigenous Americans from the land through violence, intimidation, degradation of the environment, African slave trade which we still feel the effects of today, and the consistent exploitation of foreign lands by America- America is racist, has been racist and shows little signs of changing. So no, I don't pledge allegiance to America. I pledge allegiance to humanity. Why should I care about some guy from North Dakota more than I do about someone from Indonesia? This mindless worship of the American flag by Americans blows my mind, because it continues to separate the world into "us" vs "them" mentality. Acting as if some imaginary boundary should make me feel more of a connection to a group of people is silly. And sadly, this is what America thrives in- ignorance. No one wants to learn of what America has done in Africa, Asia, Central America, the Middle East. No one wants to learn of the way America has meddled in other countries affairs, supported genocide, been completely hypocritical in their views of the world and has cared about anything but money. As long as they are living comfortably and can't see the destruction, it doesnt matter.

And that mentality is what fuels these types of stories.

"It's because, even as miniorities, we value white skin, and the white person a lot more. Those with accents? Fobs. Those who adhere to Indian values in a western land? Dippers. Those who try to bring plight of their ancestary to the people responisble? Preachers."-

Nicely put Summy. I wrote something along these lines in an earlier thread, where I stated the British mentality has poisoned our peoples' minds into thinking white=good, anything else=bad.

 

[Jeeti]

I agree with everything that's been said, and don't feel like saying things that have already been said...but I do have a bit of commentary related to the topic that can at least try and save face in America...I'm gonna take a different angle on it...please don't think I'm being ridiculous and supporting the "white" man imperialist mind state.

I live very close to where those jocks in PA that Swi is referring to beat the hell out of a Mexican immigrant supposedly screaming get out of our country while doing it, theres no question that their actions should be punished severely. I am proud of the local publishing and reporting of the paper, as well as the reaction of the diversity committee in the area. There is a huge outcry for severe punishment..This came as a complete surprise to me because I've lived here my whole life and its mainly rural and white..with a connotation to be severely racist...but the reaction of the public locally is showing me that America is progressing, although it may be only a micro-example (whatever you wanan call it)...it is micro examples that lead to a change as a whole. It is important to note however that the media is here making a point of labeling the victim as illegal...for reasons that are kind of obvious....a case like this raises huge issues in immigration, especially given that the perpetrators were legal white american jocks.

Summy, let me just add that...although you are completely outraged with the justice system, I can probably pull up more than a few cases where the justice system has failed..you can't just use the fact that the victim was a Sikh in order to really KNOW the case...in my opinion, it was a brilliant defense that got the guy only 150 days in jail...by claiming that he wasn't given the fatal blow...I understand why this is complete outrage, but please be careful when you seem to imply the justice system has failed...it works more times than not and will never be perfect...but of course, there are other countries with more solid justice systems like India? ....No...

You can't stand on a pedestal now and claim that America is not really what it seems to be. I can pull up plenty of cases where Sikhs were able to get justice in this country, and once they decide the case on this illegal immigrant in PA...I will be getting back to you with the results...which I am sure will be nothing short of sufficient of our values and our progress.

There are definitely these race implications in America and I believe that there is an imperialistic aspect that still exists , but I do not believe we are REGRESSING....by any means (see Obama as one of the most popular intellectual men in the country)....this commentary was in response to the original discussion of the case.

 

[musafir12]

that's some shit!

 

[JotBrar]

this is stupid were all ways going to considered a minority race in America (were going to segregated because whites think were from Iraq) :'(