How do you refer to your nationality/ethnicity/race

[PartyJatt]

I usually say im Punjabi, they don't know what it is I tell em im Indian

 

[- Raja -]

it always depends who your talkin too and what situation you are in

for example: your fillin out your passport applicatiion and it says whats your nationality, you cant write desi but when your out with ur buddies we always use desi

 

[nitinkapoor]

Can we get Shah up there? LOL Just kidding. I'm kinda missing the point of this thread/poll.

Asking whether people identify themselves as Indian vs. American vs. Desi is a very intriguing question. However, what this poll NOW has become is "Where in India are you from?" And having Sikh up there is a bit misleading - Sikh is NOT an ethnicity, it's a religion. You're asking three different questions (ethnicity, religion and nationality)...

For example, someone could be a Punjabi Sikh American. (Speaks Punjabi, Follows Sikhism and is an American citizen). Could refer to all three equally as well.

What i am trying to get out of this poll is what people primarily identify themselves as. Whats the most important thing for them when identifying themselves. what i am trying to find out is if a person is most proud to call themselves Indian, Pakistani, Punjabi, Sikh, Gujarati, Desi(i think this choice is irrelevant) or other which can include muslim, hindu, christian, haryanvi, marathi etc. So like if you just have to pick 1 word to identify yourself what it would be?

 

[nitinkapoor]

Sikh is NOT an ethnicity, it's a religion. You're asking three different questions (ethnicity, religion and nationality)...

That's why I asked earlier what the purpose of this poll was. I think his goal though is to see what a Punjabi Sikh America on this forum would primarily identifies themself as.

so it's not so much a census as an identity question. Still goes back to my question on context: I consciously identify myself as American first (since I'm born and brought up here), but since I so rarely am in a context to actually acknowledge that (except when in india, or traveling), my gut response is to say Indian since that's the most common/broad identifier.

You are right primary Identity is what i am looking for. More importantly i am looking for what they are most proud to be or what they think their foremost identity is. for example i want to know if a Indian Punjabi sikh born in America is more proud to be an Indian, a Punjabi, a Sikh or an American. Also, i want to see the demographics of this forum.

 

[nitinkapoor]

I think i would like to know your response if a white person ask you this question.
So i would like to rephrase the poll and change it to "How do you primarily identify yourself if a Non-South Asian person ask you "What are you?"

Do you guys think that would be a better question? Do you think i should just change the question and keep the votes that we have already OR should i just start a new poll from scratch OR should I just forget about this and go watch Bruno again? LOL

 

[KingGeorge]

im gonna start writing put punjab da on every legal document

 

[kinnell]

Can we get Shah up there? LOL Just kidding. I'm kinda missing the point of this thread/poll.

Asking whether people identify themselves as Indian vs. American vs. Desi is a very intriguing question. However, what this poll NOW has become is "Where in India are you from?" And having Sikh up there is a bit misleading - Sikh is NOT an ethnicity, it's a religion. You're asking three different questions (ethnicity, religion and nationality)...

For example, someone could be a Punjabi Sikh American. (Speaks Punjabi, Follows Sikhism and is an American citizen). Could refer to all three equally as well.

What i am trying to get out of this poll is what people primarily identify themselves as. Whats the most important thing for them when identifying themselves. what i am trying to find out is if a person is most proud to call themselves Indian, Pakistani, Punjabi, Sikh, Gujarati, Desi(i think this choice is irrelevant) or other which can include muslim, hindu, christian, haryanvi, marathi etc. So like if you just have to pick 1 word to identify yourself what it would be?

The idea is good. But as I said before, you should be asking:

What do you value MORE or what is MOST IMPORTANT to you or what do you IDENTIFY yourself as - your culture/language (ethnicity), your country of residence (nationality) or your relgiion (religion)?

This is just my opinion, but asking for specifics confuses the intended purpose of the poll and it makes it seem to be a demographic poll. Plus, you lose out on good data. For example, if someone is a Christian Punjabi but identifies themselves as Christian first because religion is most important, then you lose that data to the category of Other.

You need to pick one or the other: a demographic census (in which all options need to be the SAME category) or a non-specific poll. I'm not trying to poke holes in your thread and I'm not trying to be anal, but just pointing out how you could improve your thread. When I look at the current results, it tells me absolutely nothing about the people here on BTF. However, a better constructed poll could tell us a lot of the type of people that frequent these threads! Great intentions, nitin - it could just be implemented better.

 

[rampur209]

dammm i picked punjabi before i saw the think for sikh but if some askes where u from or what race are u i usually say punjabi

 

[H.S.]

How does one identify with Punjabi? Thats just a language. If you are referring to state of Punjab as punjabi, than if your Sikh yet live in Delhi, would you identify yourself as Hindi?

That doesnt make sense.

Either you're a Sikh (not seekh btw) or not, our generation has decided to use punjabi/sikh as if it means the same thing, it doesnt.

 

[- Raja -]

How does one identify with Punjabi? Thats just a language. If you are referring to state of Punjab as punjabi, than if your Sikh yet live in Delhi, would you identify yourself as Hindi?

That doesnt make sense.

Either you're a Sikh (not seekh btw) or not, our generation has decided to use punjabi/sikh as if it means the same thing, it doesnt.

+1

 

[COMTONDAJATT]

How does one identify with Punjabi? Thats just a language. If you are referring to state of Punjab as punjabi, than if your Sikh yet live in Delhi, would you identify yourself as Hindi?

That doesnt make sense.

Either you're a Sikh (not seekh btw) or not, our generation has decided to use punjabi/sikh as if it means the same thing, it doesnt.

Most communities revolve around a common language. If you speak the Punjabi language and follow cultural traditions you usually identify yourself as Punjabi. You could be Punjabi living in UP, Delhi, Gujarat and still identify with being a Punjabi since your ancestors are from there.

The confusion with Sikh and Punjabi is because of what happened in the early 1900s. Arya Samaj movement and other sort of Hindu revival movements sprung up and put forth the notion that the Hindus should communicate in Hindustani (from which we get the language registers of Hindi and Urdu) and put it as their mother tongue on the census. You can go back in the records and see that in the 20s that around 90 percent of Punjabi Hindus entered Punjabi as their mothertongue and then progressively by around the time Haryana was made into a state only about 9 percent claimed Punjabi as their mothertongue.

In the same way the Muslim League championed Urdu to be the defacto language of Indian Muslims. Upper class/upper middle class Punjabi Muslims claimed Urdu as their mother tongue and there was huge propoganda to put the Punjabi language down along with other regional languages like Sindhi and Balochi. Heck they pretty much lost East Pakistan over it.

With large numbers of Punjabi Hindus and Muslims not identifying themselves with the Punjabi language and culture, Sikhs pretty much took charge and pretty much did kabza on the Punjabi identity in India. The Sikh scriptures were in Punjabi and the religion is mainly confined to Punjab so the Sikh community became synonymous with the Punjab around the world. That doesnt mean Punjabi Hindus and Muslims stopped speaking Punjabi, most of them still did. Most Punjabi speakers are actually Muslims from the middle/lower classes in Pakistan but sadly the government gives no official rights to the language and for many decades the language was considered uncouth. Recently there has been a revivial in the form of music, plays, and books.

Some sources if anyone wants more info, there is alot of information about this
PUNJAB, Punjabi and URDU, The Question of Displaced Identity
http://apnaorg.com/book-chapters/languages/
THE LANGUAGE DIVIDE IN PUNJAB
http://apnaorg.com/book-chapters/language/
Language-Teaching and Power in Pakistan
http://apnaorg.com/book-chapters/tariq2/

 

[rajkaran]

I voted "other" because I cannot identify myself with just India, America, Punjab, or Sikhism.

When someone asks me "Where you from?" or "What are you?", I normally give them a lengthy answer...

 

[H.S.]

I understand where most are coming from and the point you're trying to make, a lot of ppl if asked say they are punjabi when they mean Sikh but thats confusing to the average person whose asking the question of identity in the first place.

I agree most communities revolve around the same language, but that doesn't mean different religions dont also revolve in the same community. A muslim, if asked, would call themselves muslim, no matter where they are located. Where I live, we have a gurdawara, multiple churches, a mosque all located walking distance from each other, we all belong to one community but I could not call myself "english" or christian/catholic just because I live in a community where english is the first language.

Punjabi is not the first language of punjab, hindi is. It is taught at schools, http://thelangarhall.com/archives/3876. I don't know how youth who have probably never even been to Punjab, can't read or speak the language, can call themselves punjabi.

I understand the confusion that arises from partition, mass movements but the language of punjab, punjabi should correlate to Sikhism, however it is not a synonym nor should be considered one. The fear is, in the future, we will be so focused on not forgetting the punjabi language, that instead, we will end up forgetting what it means to be a Sikh and the pride that goes along with identifying yourself as a Sikh.

Although we tell ourselves the punjabi culture is what makes us Sikh, it in fact is quite the opposite. Until we educate ourselves, discover and actually realize the difference between culture and religion, although they go hand in hand, we will not only forget what it FEELS to be punjabi but more importantly what it MEANS to be Sikh.

 

[mafzal]

How does one identify with Punjabi? Thats just a language. If you are referring to state of Punjab as punjabi, than if your Sikh yet live in Delhi, would you identify yourself as Hindi?
That doesnt make sense.

And if you're Sikh yet live in Canada... would you i.d. yourself as Canadian? Well, you are Canadian. But you are also Sikh. You're both.

This is mad confusing.

I think it all goes back to context.

Punjabi is not the first language of punjab, hindi is. It is taught at schools, http://thelangarhall.com/archives/3876. I don't know how youth who have probably never even been to Punjab, can't read or speak the language, can call themselves punjabi.

But what if these kids look very desi, half their family speaks punjabi, and they eat roti every other day at home? What if they were just never taught the language and they were never lucky enough to visit Punjab? They're not Punjabi?

Not really trying to counter HS point, but I think no matter what we say or think we will never be able to classify identities. We can generalize them. But in the end they are labels that we pick for ourselves.

Just look within families: You might i.d. yourself Sikh but your brother calls himself Indian and your dad thinks he's Canadian, while your mom introduces herself as Punjabi and your sister calls herself Sikh Punjabi Canadian.

^ And then these all change for every context.... lol

 

[mafzal]

How about this:

Child A was born to one "white" parent and one "brown" parent in America. He speaks hindi, has visited India countless times, and practices hinduism.

Child B was born to two "brown parents" in America. He speaks only english, has never been to India, and practices religion only on the surface.

Now who is what?

 

[Tuckerrrr]

Sikh-American

 

[COMTONDAJATT]

Punjabi is not the first language of punjab, hindi is. It is taught at schools, http://thelangarhall.com/archives/3876. I don't know how youth who have probably never even been to Punjab, can't read or speak the language, can call themselves punjabi.

Punjabi was never really the first language of choice taught in schools. Farsi, Urdu and Hindi were taught since the days of Ranjit Singh because most literature and administrative positions required knowledge of these languages. Even today if you are a patwari in Punjab you have to learn how to read an write Urdu. Though identity is closely linked to language most people can still identify themselves by where their ancestors came from. How many Italian-Americans actually know Italian? How can we decide what makes a person able to identify with being Punjabi?

I understand the confusion that arises from partition, mass movements but the language of punjab, punjabi should correlate to Sikhism, however it is not a synonym nor should be considered one. The fear is, in the future, we will be so focused on not forgetting the punjabi language, that instead, we will end up forgetting what it means to be a Sikh and the pride that goes along with identifying yourself as a Sikh.

Although we tell ourselves the punjabi culture is what makes us Sikh, it in fact is quite the opposite. Until we educate ourselves, discover and actually realize the difference between culture and religion, although they go hand in hand, we will not only forget what it FEELS to be punjabi but more importantly what it MEANS to be Sikh.

I don't really understand what you are trying get at here but the Sikh religion is inherently tied to the land of Punjab, it is where it was born it is where it flowered and it is where most of it's adherents lie. Identity is something complex, you cant separate it to be one thing and one thing only. You could be proud to be Punjabi and part of a rich cultural tradition and also be proud to be a Sikh, you won't forget one if you follow the other.

 

[terabaap]

ethnicity is indian
nationality is USA

 

[H.S.]

Just to simplify things,

I PERSONALLY believe that

you can call yourself punjabi, thats fine
you can call yourself Sikh, thats fine

BUT

you can NOT call yourself punjabi when what you really mean to say is Sikh.
Punjabi and Sikh are correlated, however DO NOT mean the same thing.

 

[COMTONDAJATT]

Just to simplify things,

I PERSONALLY believe that

you can call yourself punjabi, thats fine
you can call yourself Sikh, thats fine

BUT

you can NOT call yourself punjabi when what you really mean to say is Sikh.
Punjabi and Sikh are correlated, however DO NOT mean the same thing.

Ok yea I agree definitely. You are right, most people don't often make this distinction.