Kasab got hanged but 84 victims still looking for Justice

[Multani]

I don't know what to comment on this, how some people in India get Justice and Sikhs are still struggling to get Justice.


Never forget '84.

http://punjabnewsline.com/news/AISSF-hails-Kasab-hanging_-flays-delay-in-justice-to-___84-victims.html


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/26/11-attacks-survivors-welcome-hanging-of-ajmal-kasab/articleshow/17307057.cms

 

[Govind]

this is such an ignorant, stupid, and inflammatory post. seriously your incendiary religious politics are illogical. terrorist victims in bombay were from all different faiths. justice in hanging kasab had nothing to do with preferential treatment of bombay victims vs. others affected in 1984. only a fervent small number of sikhs under the guise of AISSF (who even knows who they are or who they truly represent...) in punjab seem to really care, so why are you trying to light an unnecessary fire?

 

[Ashveer]

only a fervent small number of sikhs under the guise of AISSF (who even knows who they are or who they truly represent...) in punjab seem to really care

Nope.

http://americanturban.com/2012/11/29/sikhs-in-us-petition-white-house-to-recognize-1984-genocide/

 

[Govind]

i'll concede that i should have qualified that with "a small no of sikhs in india"...aissf is most likely an organization funded by sikhs abroad. and 99% of the voice on this issue comes from nri sikhs. what does that tell you?

 

[Govind]

not to mention your news article doesn't address my argument that only a small number of people are turning this into oh justice for kasab's mistakes, but no justice for 84. "justice" the two are different...there were injustices committed, yes, they were awful and highly regrettable. but if you want to talk about terrorists, there is very little difference between bhindrawale's mentality and Osama's.

 

[Bhangra Critic]

not to mention your news article doesn't address my argument that only a small number of people are turning this into oh justice for kasab's mistakes, but no justice for 84. "justice" the two are different...there were injustices committed, yes, they were awful and highly regrettable. but if you want to talk about terrorists, there is very little difference between bhindrawale's mentality and Osama's.

How is bhindrawale even close too osama? And you said people asking for justice are mainly nri sikhs, so what?

 

[singhk1]

not to mention your news article doesn't address my argument that only a small number of people are turning this into oh justice for kasab's mistakes, but no justice for 84. "justice" the two are different...there were injustices committed, yes, they were awful and highly regrettable. but if you want to talk about terrorists, there is very little difference between bhindrawale's mentality and Osama's.

I can't believe u just said that

 

[Ashveer]

not to mention your news article doesn't address my argument that only a small number of people are turning this into oh justice for kasab's mistakes, but no justice for 84. "justice" the two are different...there were injustices committed, yes, they were awful and highly regrettable. but if you want to talk about terrorists, there is very little difference between bhindrawale's mentality and Osama's.

I think I misinterpreted your original post as meaning that there are a small number of Sikhs who care for justice for 84. I think now you mean that there are few Sikhs making a hullabaloo about Kasab vs 84, which I can't comment on because I don't have a clear sense of what's going on in Punjab but I'm inclined to agree with that point if that's what you intended to say.

Re Bhindrawale and Bin Laden, I'll agree to disagree with you on that point rather than sparking a debate that will eventually get locked [BTF in general gets very Sikh nationalist very quickly]. I will submit that there's a very big trap that many fall through when thinking through the Punjab from the late 70's onwards that attempts to blame the ideologies and responsibility of militancy on NRI Sikhs which although is true to a certain extent, is not as true as many a nationalist would have you believe. If how you understand the period is partially predicated on this, I can only say that its a very slippery slope.

 

[hardeep_singh]

Sant Bhindranwale Speech (Read description below)

collection of sant bhindranwale's speeches
http://desijammers.com/?p=Religious/Sant%20Jarnail%20Singh%20Bhindranwale%20Speeches&option=com_zina&Itemid=2

provide information, let people learn and decide on their own

 

[AnkurK]

someones pudendal got tickled the wrong way

 

[venividivici]

i'll concede that i should have qualified that with "a small no of sikhs in india"...aissf is most likely an organization funded by sikhs abroad. and 99% of the voice on this issue comes from nri sikhs. what does that tell you?

search re: jaswant singh khalra and punjab police fake encounters. that should tell you why the voices of people in punjab have been suppressed regarding 1984.

equating bhindrawale and osama? shame on you

 

[Multani]

not to mention your news article doesn't address my argument that only a small number of people are turning this into oh justice for kasab's mistakes, but no justice for 84. "justice" the two are different...there were injustices committed, yes, they were awful and highly regrettable. but if you want to talk about terrorists, there is very little difference between bhindrawale's mentality and Osama's.

Osama and Bhindranwala? Read history than comment kid. Bhindranwala fought for rights for Sikhs, was a leader of Sikhs. Since when you guys started comparing Sikhs to terrorists? When more than 100k people get killed in riots, who were the terrorists back than? So basically, there's no difference between terrorists and people who were involved in 84? Bahr na kedi ea gall, kisse nea Teri killi kadd deni.

Punjab why people don't talk about? Who said they don't? You ever been in Punjab to know the real deal?

this is such an ignorant, stupid, and inflammatory post. seriously your incendiary religious politics are illogical. terrorist victims in bombay were from all different faiths. justice in hanging kasab had nothing to do with preferential treatment of bombay victims vs. others affected in 1984. only a fervent small number of sikhs under the guise of AISSF (who even knows who they are or who they truly represent...) in punjab seem to really care, so why are you trying to light an unnecessary fire?

Killing people is killing people doesn't matter what race, what color, what religion they are. Than hanging murderers is different in India?

 

[AnkurK]

lol this thread just gets better and better..

great post govind

 

[Saleem]

I have only cursory knowledge of Operation Bluestar, 1984, or Bhindrawale, so please just inform me. Govind got several responses saying "i cant believe you'd say that!" but no details on similarities or differences. Is there a legitimate basis for comparison?

Speaking generally, not about Sikh or Muslim specifics: any person seen as a freedom fighter (or fighter for 'justice') by one party will be seen as a 'terrorist', 'extremist', 'rebel', or 'guerrilla' by the opposing party. For example, bin Laden's followers (as well as some 'normal civilians' ) see their cause as a fight for justice against a domineering, controlling outside government. Sound familiar?

I did about 3 minutes of googling and came across this essay http://www.sikhtimes.com/bios_060604a.html Point #1 (the 5th in the list) is the revelant one here:

Harmit Singh Batra was in the Darbar Sahib complex on April 13, 1978 and quotes Bhindranwale, 'We will not allow this Nirankari convention to take place. We are going to march there and cut them to pieces!'55

Following the clash with the Nirankaris on April 13, 1978, the 'Sant' and his cohorts were always armed. Bhindranwale often publicly recited his mantra, 'being armed, there is no sin greater than not seeking justice.'56 And they perceived plenty of injustice all around, which they rectified with the use of illegal force.

After the assassination of the Nirankari leader Gurbachan Singh on April 24, 1980, Bhindranwale is universally acknowledged to have remarked that if he ever met Ranjit Singh, the suspected killer, he would weigh him in gold (i.e. reward him with his weight in gold).57

On October 22, 1982, Bhindranwale made a public statement threatening the 'political and physical end' of anyone who didn't press for the full implementation of the Anandpur Sahib Resolution.58

On August 17, 1983, Bhindranwale asked Sikh youth to buy a motorcycle and a revolver and threatened to kill 5,000 Hindus in an hour if the police delayed the minibus he had sent to fetch Amrik Singh who had just been released from police custody.59

During a speech on September 20, 1983, Bhindranwale stated clearly that he would 'embrace' Sikhs who exacted revenge upon those who were guilty of torturing, killing, or humiliating Sikhs. He said, 'Getting away from there is your job, protecting you here [in the Darbar Sahib complex] is mine.'60

On November 17, 1983, Bhindranwale bluntly demanded 'that all Hindus should leave Punjab.'61

Can someone with more information chime in with details

 

[hardeep_singh]

Cant really post a long response right now but the sikh militancy movement was the culmination of events going all the way back to the early 1900s, mismanagement of gurudwaras by government appointed officials, lack of consideration for sikhs after independence, government funded programs and organizations to undermine the sikh religion, disrespect of basic human rights in Punjab. There is alot of misinformation and blatant omissions when it comes to this topic.

 

[Multani]

On October 22, 1982, Bhindranwale made a public statement threatening the 'political and physical end' of anyone who didn't press for the full implementation of the Anandpur Sahib Resolution.58

On August 17, 1983, Bhindranwale asked Sikh youth to buy a motorcycle and a revolver and threatened to kill 5,000 Hindus in an hour if the police delayed the minibus he had sent to fetch Amrik Singh who had just been released from police custody.59

That essay is so misleading. Listen to his speeches bro, he never threatened any hindu. Anandpur Sahib resolution, read the history behind it. There was nothing wrong in what he was asking. It was all in favor of punjab.


YOUTUBE the SPEECHES!

 

[Govind]

[SIZE=small]Wow we have a serious king of extrapolation on this thread here... Let's see your logic... I said "There's little difference between bhindrawale's mentality and osama's" and you interpreted that as my saying "all sikhs are terrorists." LOL The only one who pointed to logic here is Ashveer...However, that all the funding for khalistani orgs comes from NRIs highlights what I'm getting at when I say there are only a small number of Sikhs within punjab propagate this issue. I will concede to Ashveer that so much of what has come out is tainted by government and Khalistani propaganda. Indeed, there was suppression of many factual events by the media.
[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]But my statement had to do with mentality alone. [/SIZE][SIZE=small]Instead of reiterating debate that's already been here before, there's enough in Joshi's Bhindranwale Myth or Reality to back up my statement. The epic Summy had highlighted a few of them in his post (I'm not endorsing everything he posted up (not to mention the overly emotional tone he adopts!) particularly b/c I haven't seen the original sources he cited but a read through of the back and forth will preempt any extrapolated discussions): http://bhangrateamsforum.com/discuss/off-topic/misconceptions-about-sant-jarnail-singh-bhindranwale/[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]I got your attention with my pointing to the shared mentality, the common denominator being: "Take punishment and justice into your own hands through violent and militaristic means. Khalistani propaganda like what hardeep posted up as a testament to Bhindranwale's character really falls to the ground when the same person has gone on record saying the terrible things cited in Joshi's book, or even: "I have declared that if there is someone who drinks while wearing a kirpaan, and you catch him drunk, the punishment I have announced is that you should get him examined by a doctor (to make sure he has been drinking) and then pour kerosene over him and burn him alive. I shall fight your court case." (Interview with Mr. Surinderjit Singh Bains, January 1983). This quote I got from a PRO-bhindranwale paper. Anyway, f[/SIZE][SIZE=small]rom a point of historical context, I think this video is worth a watch... [/SIZE][SIZE=small]The Truth: 1984 Operation Blue Star (2/2).[/SIZE]


[SIZE=small]"The Congress party has committed atrocities against Hindus too. BJP has killed Muslims. The politicians in the Kashmir valley have been instrumental in the ethnic cleansing of Hindu Pandits. Lower castes get raped all the time." [/SIZE][SIZE=small]All my original post was about was it is stupid to assert that the justice delivered to bombay victims came at the cost or deprioritization of justice to Sikhs (or for that matter any other groups subject to religious/political-based violence).[/SIZE]

 

[Govind]

There was nothing wrong in what he was asking. It was all in favor of punjab.


YOUTUBE the SPEECHES!

Ha...You mean the Khalistani propaganda speeches that have selectively been put all over youtube? They paint just as false of a picture of this man as the government/media suppressing the true events that occurred at that time.

 

[venividivici]

There was nothing wrong in what he was asking. It was all in favor of punjab.


YOUTUBE the SPEECHES!

Ha...You mean the Khalistani propaganda speeches that have selectively been put all over youtube? They paint just as false of a picture of this man as the government/media suppressing the true events that occurred at that time.

Im just going to concur with Ashveer and agree and to disagree with your stance about bhindranwale. Looking at the previous thread and this one, its really not possible to debate the subject without becoming emotionally charged one way or the other.

In terms of the original topic, I agree with you, the Bombay victims obviously deserved justice. However, we should still remember that there are thousands of Sikh families that never got justice for 1984 and its aftermath. Just because it happened almost 30 years ago or because the people of punjab may have had their voices suppressed, it doesn't mean its a cause not worth fighting for.

Also, I disagree with your remark about a lack of preferential treatment. When there's evidence that government figures like Nath and Tytler have dirty hands in the riots and killings, its evident that those in power would like nothing better than to turn a blind eye to justice.

 

[Multani]

[SIZE=small]Wow we have a serious king of extrapolation on this thread here... Let's see your logic... I said "There's little difference between bhindrawale's mentality and osama's" and you interpreted that as my saying "all sikhs are terrorists." LOL [/SIZE]

oh yeah? Who is taking the thread in a wrong way? My original post is about justice that should be given to the 84 victims. I m happy for the families who got some relief that Kasab deserved what he did. Now, what about people like Tyler, Kamal Nath, and thousands of those people like Kasab are still roaming free? That's the original post, not to say that Kasab got hang was wrong.

99% of the voice on this issue comes from nri sikhs. what does that tell you?

So what?

Ha...You mean the Khalistani propaganda speeches that have selectively been put all over youtube? They paint just as false of a picture of this man as the government/media suppressing the true events that occurred at that time.

Tell me how fighting for rights is wrong? That's what this man was doing. Speeches are given in front of thousands of people, and you calling it a Khalistani propaganda?

My main point here is, how many people were died in 1984? How many people got justice? Can you answer me that? If justice has not been served, people should stop spreading the awareness and stop fighting for it?