Khirre Phul Gulab De @ VPD 2013

[sumeetj]

Man this was a weak performance ... straight up.


I don't know why everyone thinks every performance is place worthy these days...

if you could tell us what about it made you think it was weak, it would really benefit us. simply saying ir sucked helps in no way.

 

[romie]

Man this was a weak performance ... straight up.


I don't know why everyone thinks every performance is place worthy these days...

if you could tell us what about it made you think it was weak, it would really benefit us. simply saying ir sucked helps in no way.

I agree.... Like I think the set was nice and creative... but it did lack cleanliness and synchronization.... other wise a good performance but straight up saying it was weak with no explanation is just rude... I'm not trying to start an argument but bro you have to have some respect for a performance. If you don't like it don't write a rude comment just give your opinion so the next time the team performs they will grow and get better. Plus mad props to the girls I didnt even realize they were girls until I read the comment lol

 

[hardeep_singh]

i thought people had realized how dumb it was to post unsubstantial "criticism" on btf. if you have something new and constructive to add then add it otherwise your post is pointless and you come off looking like a bitch. i haven't watched all the performances, was busy tying paggs so only got to see kpgd and dcbc from side stage, i haven't watched any of the videos cept the one i made of kpgd from side stage. i'm not a bhangra judge, i never will be, but i enjoyed kpgd's set, they have a unique style that tends to stand out, they are a great group of people, and they worked hard to put this set together for their home crowd.

 

[mrchicity]

Idk, I wasn't a huge fan of the set, but I'm pretty jaded these days about bhangra sets, so take that with a few grains of salt. It just didn't have a very natural feel to me, it seemed like you guys were focusing on being creative and energetic, but it seemed a little forced. As far as constructive criticism, I'd say you guys need to work on standardizing nakhra. One of the reds is going buck with his nakhra, and because the rest of the team doesn't do that as much, it looks out of place and over the top. Also, the girl in yellow looked like her pagg was going to fall off for the whole set, it was pretty distracting. These are all little things that maybe don't contribute as much to a rubric, but kinda affect the feeling you give with your performance.


On the other hand, great strides have been made in terms of execution since you guys started a few years ago, so that's something to be proud of.

 

[Cherag]

This will be fun

Warning: Pseudo-treatise on judging incoming =P (Not really, but sorry for the long post haha)


It was clear that the judges that night were looking for a lot of synchronicity, but I feel like they didn't quite respect the very nice balance of entertaining/folk you guys have.
This set could win anywhere imo when executed to it's max. I guess my only advice is that the dancer skill has to be more equal, but I wish that wasn't the number one priority of so many judges.
Sometimes I feel as though most judges are really just scouring the stage constantly looking for the weakest link at any given moment, instead of looking at the set as the team is trying to present it. It reduces the emphasis placed on entertainment factor simply because the judges aren't looking to be entertained, they are looking to judge everyone first, and be entertained only when they can't find anything that's off.
This isn't fair to teams who make entertainment their #1 priority (like yours). Ideally I feel like judges should judge teams as teams try to present themselves, and then make a holistic comparison of which team executed what they were trying to bring to the stage with more overall value. Perhaps that is too hard to quantify or even qualify, but it should be what they aim for imo. It doesn't make sense for any one style to just constantly trump other styles in every circumstance.

The job of a judge is to reward what the rubric asks and do so by their background of experience on such criteria. And I believe a judge takes into accountability each individual style of a team and whether they stand out from the group at hand at a stylistic point. And it's upon a team to talk to the organization before a competition to know what the judging will be like and once and if they get in to make their set based off of the rubric. I have been judged by two of these judges and they are more than credible in seeing dancing passion and Josh while sticking to the rubric.

When a team decides that they want to create a highly entertaining and fun set as their FIRST priority it automatically makes cleanliness priority number two. This makes them lose every time to a team that decides cleanliness is priority number one, especially nowadays when most judging has become about cleanliness.
It encourages teams to play it far too safe. This has been said in the past in many threads, but when judges do this it stagnates bhangra as an art form imo.
Bhangra needs teams like you to keep doing what you do, and that won't happen if you all aren't rewarded at all for doing so. Luckily you guys love dancing enough to keep it up.

This isn't true, the latter of being clean and entertaining (through dance), can be done and has been done, and that too simultaneously. Bro, people love dancing, I have seen it throughout the circuit, but there are teams who can handle the pressure to be clean and appealing to the audience, it is a matter and practice, leadership, and the vision of what you want your set to look like, it's hard but can and has been done.

An example of some solid judging would be at Elite 8 last year. Ignoring any controversy over who should've won first, the top three teams were NYPD, UNC, and JJ according to the judges. These teams had three very different styles and all three executed their sets as they were meant to be executed. The judges still were able to respect all three different styles and recognized that those were the best three teams of the night. It was not purely about some one ideal style that trumped all others.

It's never about the ideal style, bhangra is the foundation, and in a more traditional competition such as VPD, this is evident and a requirement. Style is when you can make your execution of phummanian presentable in the strongest fashion (when it comes to presenting the actual set) while being different or not yet completing that segment. The rubric is what is at highest value not a style, your style assists to fill out or leave the rubric empty, and these judges are qualified to fill that out. I don't think that this performance displayed that consistency in style, people are doing different things, legs are picked up differently for single dhamaal, pat aka legs are difference some are closer together and some are wider, so I don't even think the style is evident.

Sure some teams showcase certain dancers more at the front for certain moves because they are significantly better at those moves, but why constantly punish a team for having a few weak dancers in a really challenging set? This weakest link judging is far too harsh in some cases. Obviously some teams are trying to put their best foot forward as they push the envelope. Instead of punishing a team for having to do that, why don't you acknowledge it and just treat it as an overall negative factor, but reward them for pushing the envelope. Furthermore, reward a team who was able to rotate all their dancers through more evenly, so long as that other team's set as a whole was still close to the same level in other respects.

You're going to a competition, if you don't have to best dancers, or most coherent when it comes to looking the same, you won't win. If some dancers are dancing at a higher level of energy, than other dancers, either those "weaker" dancers need to pick it up, or the "better" ones must display more control. Again looking like a team is what matters, even if the difficulty in the set is present. I thought that this set was to a certain extent faster than previous KPGD sets, but making a set faster with little to no stop and goes (good job with prop dropping off it was nice that you guys kept dancing), but I didn't think the difficult in moves or for that matter formations was present. Make formations harder and your choreo even harder boys, it's nice that you guys go from that plus sign to breaking off wrapping around into lines of three (mind you a formation that has been over used), but make your moves stronger while doing it, it looks lazy and boring right now.

Judges always say bhangra is a team dance, so everyone should dance together, and that's the excuse for focusing so much on everyone dancing as one. However, obviously we know bhangra is a team dance. We are dancing together...everyday in practice, and on a stage. At the end of the day though we are giving a performance. Some teams want to showcase how clean they can be, that's their strong suit. However, a lot of all-guys teams like you have a lot of individual talent to showcase at certain parts, but judges are no longer into individuals as dancers (which I can understand, but don't agree with 100%). I guess you will have to make everyone dance even more similarly to win in the current circuit.

Don't discredit judges when it comes to how they view the dance, again they are qualified, and yea if you're a team, YOU HAVE TO DANCE LIKE A TEAM! But at the same time there are all guys teams in the circuit who can do both, this team can still learn how to do that, not a problem, but that's on leadership and competency of dancers.

For some reason judges are still happy to see the same kind of formations and moves just executed simply and robotically, and have no respect for the stamina/creativity it takes to execute/invent these harder sets. I'm not saying there isn't value to the former, but I do think things are very biased towards the former right now in the circuit, instead of a proper balance of judging (obviously this is a gross generalization on judges, but I do have to speak in general right now to talk about the circuit as a whole).
Usually "folkness" is cited to discourage the lack of what some all-guys teams find to be entertaining, and I generally agree with that. I'm not a fan of stop-and-go/rehashed gimmicks from other teams and hip-hop performances, really modern styles, etc.
However, I feel like the entertainment in this set was really tasteful, unique, flowed well (no stop-and-go gimmicks), and the set was still very folk. Dancer skill was incredibly high, and energy was so high for a such a hard set. I had so much fun watching you guys have fun dancing.

How do judges want to see that at all? A judge never wants to see the same old simple stuff, they want to see ingenuity and a way that a team stands out from the latter at that competition. Dancer skill wasn't high. You yourself said that there are weak dancers, those weak dancers are witnessed by low energy levels, stop contradicting yourself.

Sure I have to admit other teams were more uniform in their dancer ability, but is that really so great? Are you all not doing the move close enough to each other? Can you all not have some fun on stage when your whole purpose of dancing in the first place is to entertain? Did you guys really deserve 4th behind all three of those other teams? Is their style (which were all really similar) actually just better than yours? I don't think so. I think cleanliness and dancer synchronicity were over valued this year at VPD, and at the end of the day it really only hurt you guys specifically because clearly your style was not equally respected by the judges for whatever reason.

You don't actually know what it takes to make and design a placing set for an all guys team, and on top of that what to present at a competition. VCU, GMU, and DCMPAA have their own style, now you are discrediting those teams who worked their asses off. The best teams at a competition are those who one fill out the rubric the best, and at this competition with an educated judges panel, who did the most justice in the presentation of the dance in respect to the art form. And it doesn't mean that they were the best in the history of the circuit, just that night they were the best.

At the end of the day, we have to respect the judges opinions because they have much experience and probably have many reasons for why they feel the way they do. Personally when I talked to the judges after the comp they seemed incredibly open, honest, and I agreed with everything they had to say about our set at least (UNC), but I know you guys were disappointed, so hopefully ya'll take this set to another comp and it goes better for you. (TAKE ME TOO!) Perhaps you guys just had to be a little bit cleaner to place, but I feel like in other comps, this would've gotten first. (First by a long shot even)

I don't think this would've gotten first at other comps unless the lineups were weak, and I can talk more in depth about this with you I talk to Sumeet, he knows my views on dancing and placing.

Hopefully this post makes people think a little bit. I have nothing against clean well executed sets, I dance for UNC for god's sake, lol. I'm just saying the folk all-guys style really is underrated in the game, when it should be on a more equal footing imo. Respect it for what it is, don't just make comparisons of form and formations without equally fair and critical comparisons of creativity and difficulty etc. A lot of all-guys teams are being forced to go to a more modern style now just to clean up more and still have challenging sets. It's detrimental to the circuit and they still lose too (unless they go to a "modern comp") because it becomes less folk…

Lol a team doesn't have to do anything that they don't want to do. If you want a trophy do what it takes to get a trophy, if you want to do your own thing and have fun and be unique and folk and uncoordinated, go ahead and do it, but YOU CAN DO BOTH. Guys teams have the ability and have put on sets that have placed that are synchronized yet entertaining and folk.

However, hopefully no one is offended in my saying KPGD was definitely on your level last night for the reasons stated prior. I think the judges just happened to have a very predetermined mindset of what to expect/look for at this comp. KPGD's style probably caught them off gaurd, and they didn't make the best evaluation of KPGD specifically given the situation imo.

The placing for VPD look similar to what the rubric in the past has asked, when it came to 1, 2, and 3 I have seen all of the videos. And ya, what a judge looks for is predetermined, the best, and that too based off the rubric, KPGD could have won this, if they followed the rubric and did everything that it asked 100%, but they didn't from the looks of it.

Should a pretty clean but unique and challenging set beat a very clean although much simpler set? Well clearly there's no way to know without watching them.
But should the only such former set at a competition lose to 3 of the latter sets?? Highly unlikely imo.

Faizan has already addressed this beautifully so I don't need to comment on it further.


*Sorry about the spelling and grammer issues, wrote this in a hurry. And this is just my opinion, sorry if you have danced on the team and I offended you, but there were just points that you made which didn't seem to make sense at times, were contradicting, or were just opinion based that I differ on. I take dancing and the fairness and the unbias view very highly, while being on an all guys dance team myself.


KPGD, you guys have proved that you guys can be synchronized, Big Apple you were better at it. Here you guys lost your edge, set was faster yet very uncontrolled. Your set only looks as good as your weakest dancer in my opinion, and because of the lack of control there were many dancers who were weaker. I think you guys should get more complicated in set creation, but before that bring your dancers to the same level. Formations I think as an all male (almost) dance team, I feel like with the twelve of you on stage, you could get a lot more creative. The less your movement the more boring a set gets in my opinion, but at the same time, make the movement intricate and not just standard circles and waterfall lines. I personally thought that this didn't deserve to place, but you guys have surely improved in dancing stamina. When I say this I mean that your set difficulty is near about the same as your last competition but you guys take less breaks, which is an appreciated fact. Red Jodi was a pleasure to watch but they had command. I always tell my guys to control the set and not let the set control you, Red Jodi surely seems like they know that. I feel like the rest of your dancers just need more drive to be like that Jodi so that they too can look like you guys and so that overall you guys look like a team. Best of luck for future competitions!

 

[Archana]

Your argument on creativity and risky sets is valid, however, judges have to follow the given rubric. If creativity is weighted in more, then your kind of in a good spot. But there are many comps where sync is weighed in more, which would hurt your overall score. Its been seen that sync wins over creativity time after time, and vice versa (sometimes). But the rubric is king despite the judges deliberation. I am no where near a judge, but thats my two cents.

 

[He Hate Me]

congrats on 4th place

 

[Shahrukh]

+1 for cherag


post of the century, you covered everything bro, i give you first place for that post.

 

[KushK]

Nothing wrong with dressing up a girl as a guy


Yes agreed, best KPGD set to date. I think the Jugni/Mirza segment was really really dope but I actually didn't like the song. Thats just my opinion tho.


The girls pagg coming off was a distraction, I know its very hard to tie a pagg on a girl but you've got to get it right and avoid something like that in the future.


Alan, Sumeet, Raj and the 2 girls just murked it but get the rest of the dancers up to par.


Overall awesome set. I haven't seen the other videos but this is a placing set. Keep your heads up and keep doing what you all do best!

 

[Rip]

i give you first place for that post.

is that based on the cleanliness of his passages or the creativity of his language? lol

KPGD, great set, creative and fun to watch. I agree that the red jodi was nasty and maybe getting everyone to that level would go a long way for your team. Here's my thing. Yes, you can want judges to consider more heavily the difficulty and creativity in a set when judging, but we have to look at precedence. If you want to place more than you want to do your own thing, precedence says be cleaner (although this is different per comp, per judging panel). Do you HAVE to sacrifice one for the other? As Cherag said, no you don't (striving for both is the goal), but if you are forced to, then make choice that makes you happy.

Lets not get out of hand now, Squashes clearly respects the judges and brought this up for consideration sake, not to complain. In terms of how judges judge, I see what you are saying, and maybe your post will start to change the way panels think. Matter of fact, if you want to see change, become a judge! There needs to be a new wave of them at some point, and this is definitely something to consider.

Again, great job and I hope to see you guys compete at another comp this season!

 

[cheena]

Ankush, I know we all look alike....

 

[amancheema]

work on dancing ability before getting fancy


very messy set and pink jodi not up to par

 

[KushK]

Ankush, I know we all look alike....

Whoops <3

 

[yraparla]

Sumeet, I'm all for girls putting on paghs and holding their own with the boys. But I recommend not using fake beards to look more like a guy. I think it looks really really tacky and obvious. Just put on the vardi dance... at this point in the post-AEG/Navi world I think we can handle girls in a pagh without getting our chadras all up in a bunch.

 

[sumeetj]

Sumeet, I'm all for girls putting on paghs and holding their own with the boys. But I recommend not using fake beards to look more like a guy. I think it looks really really tacky and obvious. Just put on the vardi dance... at this point in the post-AEG/Navi world I think we can handle girls in a pagh without getting our chadras all up in a bunch.

only reason i got them to draw beards because for people who didnt know girls were dancing, it did hide them relatively well and prevented them from simply looking for the girls on stage. at bayside a girl danced and didnt draw a beard and everyone knew, and asked me about the girl after the performance. at bab, a different girl danced and drew a simple goatee and the majority of people were shocked when they realized later it was a girl. just didnt want people to view our set differently simply bc they knew girls were dancing in an all guys set, but i do understand what you mean

 

[yraparla]

Sumeet, I'm all for girls putting on paghs and holding their own with the boys. But I recommend not using fake beards to look more like a guy. I think it looks really really tacky and obvious. Just put on the vardi dance... at this point in the post-AEG/Navi world I think we can handle girls in a pagh without getting our chadras all up in a bunch.

only reason i got them to draw beards because for people who didnt know girls were dancing, it did hide them relatively well and prevented them from simply looking for the girls on stage. at bayside a girl danced and didnt draw a beard and everyone knew, and asked me about the girl after the performance. at bab, a different girl danced and drew a simple goatee and the majority of people were shocked when they realized later it was a girl. just didnt want people to view our set differently simply bc they knew girls were dancing in an all guys set, but i do understand what you mean

Interesting, I can respect that. To be honest though I didn't know there were girls dancing, I just was able to tell they were dancing differently and had fake beards and it became obvious they were girls. Then I check the list of dancers and saw the two names. So it works both ways I guess, w/e you feel works best. You're right that they probably become targets and draw over-attention once people know.

I dunno maybe I'm just progressive lol, the choice you made is easy to respect no worries

 

[Jabar Jung]

What really bothered me was the non synchronized steps. One line does it then another then so on and so forth. It was done too many times through out the set.

 

[princ3ofd3sis]

This was a sick set!!!! it should of placed in my opinion. It was exciting from beginning to end. KPGD have been stepping it up

 

[roohinor]

I respect a lot of what Akash (Squashes) said, undoubtedly because everyone is entitled to their own opinion and are free to voice how and what they feel about a set and the response to the outcome. All in all, I always love watching KPGD's sets, great dancers and damn good people too. Energy was def lacking with some of your dancers but it was very entertaining overall. Glad to see Sumeet decided to stay out of retirement

 

[faizan]

Back to KPGD...

The problem with this set is, the dancers. Execution was not there, at all. Some dancers were laboring. When almost half of your dancers are so weak, it would be tough to place, let alone win.

If you guys really care about winning, get your stamina together, and focus on execution. And for those who were saying this is a risky set, I would disagree. This set isn't very difficult or risky.