haha, why am I killing you?
I used to find plenty of examples of traditional style luddi on the ol' YouTube. I remember this distinctly because when I found it I was so excited. See, when I was doing research on these dances, there was no YouTube. And from the vantage of India, it was a great mystery what may or may not be still existing n Pakistan. I had gone to Pakistan (briefly), but people said the dances were not around. Pakistani books described them, but the descriptions read suspiciously like Urdu copies of books written by British colonial officers many years earlier.
Now, this "modern luddi" - this composition called luddi - has been performed enough and videorecorded enough that evidently it is dominating space in the search results on YouTube. That's how search engines work - sucks for you that you'll have to search harder
And that's how these things make an impression on the public. This is exactly one reason why I made my "statement for the record" on this thread, to nip things in the bud. Because you're only going to see more and more of these pretend luddis now on YouTube, and since YT is where all the "kids" ;D get their info nowadays, it will just confirm their already wrong impression as time goes on.
It's so easy to find traditional luddis...you gotta look at videos from Pakistan, my man. India has nothing.
chakwal luddi
I think there could be a thread just on Luddi, where people could put the info and videos. Then all the bhangra dancers would see it and it would be so obvious how different the actual luddi is from this stage composition. It would also be obvious that the pretense that these Indian /Indian-American stage forms are just the traditional dances adapted to stage constraints and "modernized" is also a nonsense idea.
The thread would also give a sense of the regional interpretations of traditional luddi. Yes, there are different varieties. Can I outline all of the differences? No. I tried a little bit at one point, but that was again before youtube and, further, I was focusing on so many other things that I didn't have time to "waste" with a seemingly forgotten dance. I can tell you though that, like 'jhummar', to some degree 'luddi' can be understood as a term that many people used for whatever dance they did going around in a circle. They danced however they danced in that region, and what they called it was an afterthought. People of one region might see people of another dancing and think that was like their 'luddi' even though the people dancing called in 'jhumar'.
There is a section on luddi in my dissertation.
we can all agree that modern bhangra is an amalgamation of dance forms and moves loosely derived and distilled from traditional folk dances.
I do not agree with that. You're giving modern bhangra too much credit, and you're making it sound like all the stuff in the "Visual History" thread never happened. Perhaps in the mid 1950s you could imagine stage bhangra this way. But nowadays 'bhangra' looks absolutely nothing like traditional bhangra. Not only the actions, but the way people move is not even like the way Punjabis moved a couple decades ago. ...though it's the way they move now, so fine! ;D
the modern form of luddi seems to have little in common with traditional luddi but the motions are derived from the traditional style.
No. That's why I posted. There is hardly anything that looks like luddi motions in the composition. You know I am saying this with no disrespect, because I suspect my guru, Garib Dass, had a hand in shaping the 'original' luddi composition (though it has surely been adapted since then). It is just a stage piece with a vague inspiration of the idea of luddi. This includes using a luddi dhol rhythm every once in a while (!), the mis-named "luddi" action that is found in stage bhangra, saying "luddi" every once in a while in the song lyrics, and a style of costume that is distinct from bhangra's. Surface stuff, sprinkled. Now, do at that and move your body in the way that competition bhangra dances have been doing in recent years, and you get something that is like luddi like skim milk is to whiskey.
the second video you posted which showcases the more "punjab" style shows a more loose/freeform version of the modern luddi but the dhol beat and the moves themselves are of the same composition as in the OP video.
Yes, the point of posting was that it is the same composition - to compare apples to apples. It was to illustrate that the people in that video are dancing the composition in a style (the way they move, not what actions they do) in a "Punjab" way, whereas the one's in the OP are doing it in a "diaspora bhangra" way.
in most if not all american/canadian music sets luddi style moves are pretty much used just as filler these days,
What luddi style moves? Watch the video above and tell me if there is anything in modern "do you even lift, bro?" bhangra that looks anything like it. We might as well be watching folk dance of Lebanon or Greece or Uzbekistan. But no, it's actually Punjabi.
its also uncommon these days to see a complex luddi segment in live indian performances
It's not done. Are you crazy? Nobody has a clue what luddi is in India. Garib Dass' generation was the last to have a clue, but they were even filling in huge gaps in memory. I have already explained (above) why I think that these artists would have gone along with the pretense in the past. To go along with the pretense now, using postmodernistic ways of stretching concepts like "derived from traditional" - especially when evidence to the contrary is just a click away - is madness.