New Judging Rubric

[mafzal]

Whenever I discuss a performance with anyone I always find myself talking in terms of "the set, the dancers, and the mix". The set being how good was the routine in its intention or with its maximum potential. The dancers meaning how well the team actually did the set. I usually find other people to also discuss performances this way... Why not set up a rubric this way?



1. ROUTINE
- Choreo
- Formations
- Traditionality (Including vardiyan)
- Memorability or Creativity


2. EXECUTION
- Cleanliness
- Energy
- Stage Presence (nakhra)
- Form
- Mistakes and Mishaps


3. MUSIC
- Song selection
- Quality of mixing
- Creativity, entertainment, effectiveness, hypeness, whatever




Allocate points and break it down further as you will, but this seems like a natural way to judge a performance.

 

[Govind]

I disagree with the points you make about music being judged as part of the overall performance. Music should only be judged in so far as correlation with beats/dhol with the dance steps/folk dances executed.

 

[GSingh]

I disagree with the points you make about music being judged as part of the overall performance. Music should only be judged in so far as correlation with beats/dhol with the dance steps/folk dances executed.

The music shouldn't have more than one sub category and that is whether it enhanced or dejected from the performance. Because not every team is going to have a talented mixer and not every team has the money to hire a professional DJ to mix for them so I think as long as they have a danceable mix, and they dance to it well, it should be fine. Song selection factors more into memorability because whenever we talk about routines, we often speak of their "panga" or what they did during "punjabi" or w/e.

 

[Manjot]

I disagree with the points you make about music being judged as part of the overall performance. Music should only be judged in so far as correlation with beats/dhol with the dance steps/folk dances executed.

+1

 

[Ashveer]

I disagree with the points you make about music being judged as part of the overall performance. Music should only be judged in so far as correlation with beats/dhol with the dance steps/folk dances executed.

+1

+1 for that profile pic

 

[Avneeto]

I disagree with the points you make about music being judged as part of the overall performance. Music should only be judged in so far as correlation with beats/dhol with the dance steps/folk dances executed.

+1

+1 for that profile pic

that pic is awesome
+1000000 for it

 

[kinnell]

I disagree with the points you make about music being judged as part of the overall performance. Music should only be judged in so far as correlation with beats/dhol with the dance steps/folk dances executed.

I disagree. A mix and how it is played and danced to is part of a team's performance. That's like saying that getting prettier and more elaborate vardiyaan should only be judged in so far as correlation with how traditional the outfit is and how teams execute folk steps in them. While that looks good on paper, we know that is far from the truth as teams who invest in creative, unique and more attractive fits enhance their performance. Judges are not simply judging the routine and the dance, but the overall performance with all its aspects.

 

[Kush]

I disagree with the points you make about music being judged as part of the overall performance. Music should only be judged in so far as correlation with beats/dhol with the dance steps/folk dances executed.

I disagree. A mix and how it is played and danced to is part of a team's performance. That's like saying that getting prettier and more elaborate vardiyaan should only be judged in so far as correlation with how traditional the outfit is and how teams execute folk steps in them. While that looks good on paper, we know that is far from the truth as teams who invest in creative, unique and more attractive fits enhance their performance. Judges are not simply judging the routine and the dance, but the overall performance with all its aspects.

+1. EVERY element of the performance matters.

 

[Govind]

I disagree with the points you make about music being judged as part of the overall performance. Music should only be judged in so far as correlation with beats/dhol with the dance steps/folk dances executed.

I disagree. A mix and how it is played and danced to is part of a team's performance. That's like saying that getting prettier and more elaborate vardiyaan should only be judged in so far as correlation with how traditional the outfit is and how teams execute folk steps in them. While that looks good on paper, we know that is far from the truth as teams who invest in creative, unique and more attractive fits enhance their performance. Judges are not simply judging the routine and the dance, but the overall performance with all its aspects.

The music/song selection/pace etc will undoubtedly influence the dance, but I would not judge it as a primary and independent factor to distinguish between two teams fighting for 1st/2nd at a competition. The uniform analogy doesn't make sense at all Kinnell...We don't "judge" uniforms beyond their tied properly. Yes uniforms may make a team look pretty, but it's a judge's duty to look past that and get to the core of the performance: the quality of the dance. That should be the primary distinguishing factor when evaluating teams...with music really only serving to provide a framework for that dance.

 

[sargam627]

I disagree with the points you make about music being judged as part of the overall performance. Music should only be judged in so far as correlation with beats/dhol with the dance steps/folk dances executed.

I disagree. A mix and how it is played and danced to is part of a team's performance. That's like saying that getting prettier and more elaborate vardiyaan should only be judged in so far as correlation with how traditional the outfit is and how teams execute folk steps in them. While that looks good on paper, we know that is far from the truth as teams who invest in creative, unique and more attractive fits enhance their performance. Judges are not simply judging the routine and the dance, but the overall performance with all its aspects.

The music/song selection/pace etc will undoubtedly influence the dance, but I would not judge it as a primary and independent factor to distinguish between two teams fighting for 1st/2nd at a competition. The uniform analogy doesn't make sense at all Kinnell...We don't "judge" uniforms beyond their tied properly. Yes uniforms may make a team look pretty, but it's a judge's duty to look past that and get to the core of the performance: the quality of the dance. That should be the primary distinguishing factor when evaluating teams...with music really only serving to provide a framework for that dance.

So you don't deduct points for a chadra not being tied properly or a pagg not tied properly? Interesting.

 

[Govind]

I disagree with the points you make about music being judged as part of the overall performance. Music should only be judged in so far as correlation with beats/dhol with the dance steps/folk dances executed.

I disagree. A mix and how it is played and danced to is part of a team's performance. That's like saying that getting prettier and more elaborate vardiyaan should only be judged in so far as correlation with how traditional the outfit is and how teams execute folk steps in them. While that looks good on paper, we know that is far from the truth as teams who invest in creative, unique and more attractive fits enhance their performance. Judges are not simply judging the routine and the dance, but the overall performance with all its aspects.

The music/song selection/pace etc will undoubtedly influence the dance, but I would not judge it as a primary and independent factor to distinguish between two teams fighting for 1st/2nd at a competition. The uniform analogy doesn't make sense at all Kinnell...We don't "judge" uniforms beyond their tied properly. Yes uniforms may make a team look pretty, but it's a judge's duty to look past that and get to the core of the performance: the quality of the dance. That should be the primary distinguishing factor when evaluating teams...with music really only serving to provide a framework for that dance.

So you don't deduct points for a chadra not being tied properly or a pagg not tied properly? Interesting.

Sangam, I believe you missed the part where I wrote: *We don't "judge" uniforms beyond their [being] tied properly.*

i.e. Flashier uniforms do not get more "points" and should not influence how a team is judged relative to others (unless of course, you're explicitly looking to give a "best dressed award" lol). Of course, we do expect uniforms to fall in the range of what we say is "traditional" but these artificial definitions have their own limitations.
Sorry, but here's a bit of a rant that is off-topic here but I'm preempting some issues that could be brought up...It's problematic when we begin to artificially define what is traditional, what is proper, what is better (esp when it comes to things like uniforms). That's ignorant of the rich history of our dance...and discounts the crux of what we should be derive from doing bhangra in the first place - not to "win", not to dance on stage for others, not to be cool by being on a team, not to feed off of compliments on our mixes and uniforms...instead, we should be dancing for ourselves - an external expression of our internal selves.

 

[sargam627]

I disagree with the points you make about music being judged as part of the overall performance. Music should only be judged in so far as correlation with beats/dhol with the dance steps/folk dances executed.

I disagree. A mix and how it is played and danced to is part of a team's performance. That's like saying that getting prettier and more elaborate vardiyaan should only be judged in so far as correlation with how traditional the outfit is and how teams execute folk steps in them. While that looks good on paper, we know that is far from the truth as teams who invest in creative, unique and more attractive fits enhance their performance. Judges are not simply judging the routine and the dance, but the overall performance with all its aspects.

The music/song selection/pace etc will undoubtedly influence the dance, but I would not judge it as a primary and independent factor to distinguish between two teams fighting for 1st/2nd at a competition. The uniform analogy doesn't make sense at all Kinnell...We don't "judge" uniforms beyond their tied properly. Yes uniforms may make a team look pretty, but it's a judge's duty to look past that and get to the core of the performance: the quality of the dance. That should be the primary distinguishing factor when evaluating teams...with music really only serving to provide a framework for that dance.

So you don't deduct points for a chadra not being tied properly or a pagg not tied properly? Interesting.

Sangam, I believe you missed the part where I wrote: *We don't "judge" uniforms beyond their [being] tied properly.*

i.e. Flashier uniforms do not get more "points" and should not influence how a team is judged relative to others (unless of course, you're explicitly looking to give a "best dressed award" lol). Of course, we do expect uniforms to fall in the range of what we say is "traditional" but these artificial definitions have their own limitations.
Sorry, but here's a bit of a rant that is off-topic here but I'm preempting some issues that could be brought up...It's problematic when we begin to artificially define what is traditional, what is proper, what is better (esp when it comes to things like uniforms). That's ignorant of the rich history of our dance...and discounts the crux of what we should be derive from doing bhangra in the first place - not to "win", not to dance on stage for others, not to be cool by being on a team, not to feed off of compliments on our mixes and uniforms...instead, we should be dancing for ourselves - an external expression of our internal selves.

It's Sargam* And yeah I kinda did skip over that haha.

Also, if we go to a COMPETITION expecting not to win, that takes away from the whole purpose of it being a COMPETITION. Not many teams want to do charity events and stuff like that because they WANT to, they're either obliged to or expect something of it- exposure to get gigs that pay money. That whole "dancing for ourselves" died out a LONG time ago, it's all about who's who and who's better.

 

[Govind]

so ya i see what you're saying lol but what i'm getting at is that there are more pure reasons/feelings behind dance besides the simple "motivation to win" and that people who translate those reasons/feelings into fueling the quality/creativity of their dance, are also the people who are more likely to win!!!

 

[Kush]

Govind, I still don't agree dude. i think that music selection is a very important part of a performance, and should be weighed just as heavily as the instruments of a live set! Sure you mentioned the beats should be appropriate, but if the music generates hype, or the order in which songs are placed, the feel they transcend, these are all equivalents, IMHO, to an algozey player tearing it up, to a dholi playing cripsly on a correctly tuned dhol, to a singer hitting a perfect hekh, etc.

Just as we strive to get better in execution, form, energy, other aspects of the dance should be pushed forward as well. The entire presentation matters and, if cohesive, creates an experience for a watcher that is unique to that team, to that set, to that performance.

Again, just my two cents. I understand the poitns about not having a mixer, etc, but you could make the same excuse that "team x doesnt have access to a good coach to help them improve so they stay weak as dancers"... you learn, you self-teach, you develop.

 

[AWall23]

Do you see many teams place who don't have a good mix? I believe it's already an integrated part.
However, resources can be limited. First resource, having a good mixer. If you're from Oklahoma, you can research how to dance on youtube, instill your creativity, and conjure a great routine, but if a decent mixer in Oklahoma doesn't exist, you're doomed to not place. Secondly, money is a resource. You can't afford to buy vardiyan fully decked out, but you can have team moms sew them together. Tying your pagh and chadra are in your control, but if you can't afford to deck em out, you get docked off?

BAB gave props to Furteelay Shokeen for their mix, and I think recognition for costumes/mixes are great, but giving them a more than significant spot in judging is not a great idea.

 

[Sohaj]

Govind, I still don't agree dude. i think that music selection is a very important part of a performance, and should be weighed just as heavily as the instruments of a live set! Sure you mentioned the beats should be appropriate, but if the music generates hype, or the order in which songs are placed, the feel they transcend, these are all equivalents, IMHO, to an algozey player tearing it up, to a dholi playing cripsly on a correctly tuned dhol, to a singer hitting a perfect hekh, etc.

Algoza player, dholi or a singer can mess up while they are creating music on stage...that doesn't hold true for a mix. Teams do work really hard to make their mixes just like live teams work hard on practicing with the band...but the mix is just replayed on stage while a live team is actually creating music. That is why I dont think the quality of the mix should be used as a judging criteria. Judges are there to judge how a team represents the art form of bhangra on stage for 8mins...vardiyaan, dancing on beat, execution of moves, etc shud be included. Mix is already done with and is just being replayed. I think if anything judges need to be looking beyond the mix to concentrate on other technical aspects of the dance.

 

[Kush]

All fair points, but its about PRESENTATION! If all these extras or bonuses don't matter, then aspects of creativity, which can be emphasized or defined by the music playing, i feel, are being left out. I mean i agree with plenty of the points being stated, but i dont think that "not having a mixer" around is a reason to have just a BAD mix. You have the SAME access to mixing tools and mixes as you do to performances and videos of teams online. In that regard, one should be motivated to develop as a complete team. I'm not saying having a mediocre mix should keep you from placing, but it should DEFINITELY provide an edge to a team that has a good one. Again i'm not saying a judge should decide if a set is good based on the mixers choices, BUT appreciation of a mix can help appreciate a specific move, can enhance a formation, or make something more entertaining, and thus it SHOULD BE CONSIDERED beyond the aspects of the correct beats to moves.

 

[Govind]

All fair points, but its about PRESENTATION! If all these extras or bonuses don't matter, then aspects of creativity, which can be emphasized or defined by the music playing, i feel, are being left out. I mean i agree with plenty of the points being stated, but i dont think that "not having a mixer" around is a reason to have just a BAD mix. You have the SAME access to mixing tools and mixes as you do to performances and videos of teams online. In that regard, one should be motivated to develop as a complete team. I'm not saying having a mediocre mix should keep you from placing, but it should DEFINITELY provide an edge to a team that has a good one. Again i'm not saying a judge should decide if a set is good based on the mixers choices, BUT appreciation of a mix can help appreciate a specific move, can enhance a formation, or make something more entertaining, and thus it SHOULD BE CONSIDERED beyond the aspects of the correct beats to moves.

These are all some really good points that have been brought up. Some of them definitely do resonate with the pre-show discussions judges have had...as sometimes we go to shows and there are 5-10 points included for the mix/sound and we have had to decide on what basis we should allocate them. Kinnell and I talked about this at BdM and he also brought up some convincing arguments here...

 

[Mr Sandhu]

Take an absolute competitive scenario with two teams that are perfect images of one another - they perform the exact same chore, have the same style (nakhra/grace), same captain/coach hierarchy, same time to learn the dance, same number of dancers and the same vardiyaan. Everything is the same except the mixes. If both teams perform and one team has a better sounding mix then that team should deserve to win because the better mix shows the extra effort that team put into its dance performance. A better mix means better quality songs (EQing included), better transitions between songs, better remixes of songs (where the the remix is well thought out with matching moods of the songs, unobtrusive (not necessarily matching) instruments), more dance interactive with sound effects etc, and more audience interactive with popular songs etc. Making a good mix takes just as long as making up choreo and teaching the dance because deciding the first song you want to choreo for a dance is the exact time you begin mixing.

In the absolute scenario, both teams are perfectly qualified to fulfill the requirements for a 1st place position at a competition (theyre both achievers), but one team's over-achieving performance merits higher placing.

If Bhangra is indeed an art form and an expression of oneself, then all the artistic elements involved within it need to also be emphasized, because they're the shapes that make up the whole form. If you're expressing yourself through a dance, you express through movement AND music. What would happen if a team had songs with cursing, aren't the dancers just expressing they're anger by choosing songs which they can relate to? Why is dhamaal such a different beat from phumniya? - because they have different meanings behind the corresponding dances (different meaning = expressions of different things (things = feelings, attitudes, energy, etc).

 

[Saab]

I think if there is ever a mix component of the rubric, it should be a subheading of overall performance. Also, I think that if a mix is at least semi-eqed(some songs are eq'ed), and the song selection is good, then the biggest thing about the mix is that it complements your choreography in a way that enhances your performance. There are also crappy mixes that are made good by choreo that is paired with things in the songs.

The other thing about mixing is that I once got into an argument about mxing with a friend over what we preferred, hype mixes, or more even-keel mixes with good choreography to accompany it. If you mix a certain way, then you are probably biased towards one way or another.

Honestly, the only reason a mix or vardi would get into a rubric is what reaction the both of those two elements would elicit from the crowd. If its more appealing to the crowd, then it affects your overall performance in respect to a material indicator: crowd pleasing. That should take a role in the allocation of overall performance points.