Sound Quality during Pitch Shifting

[ishaankolluri]

Been meaning to ask this for a while


Using Logic Pro X with the Pitch Shifter plugin. General advice would be awesome, although I'm somewhat familiar with the Acid/Ableton UI as well if you have specific thoughts


When I speed up songs < 20% and pitch it more than 1.5-2+ semitones, I always start experiencing serious distortion that primarily causes the vocals to lose their cleanliness and the quality to degrade - generally makes me avoid songs i dont want to seriously change in terms of pitch. I tested this on a song that I know another team pitched > 2 semitones and sounds fine on SoundCloud as opposed to my render. What are mixers doing to preserve their sound quality and vocal clarity while seriously changing the pitch?


While I'm at it, any EQ practices for isolating punjabi song vocals? this is generally easier to do with phase inversion for western songs, but there are seemingly no instrumentals for punjabi songs.


Appreciate it a lot!

 

[sangeensingh]

I dont use any of the softwares you mentioned, but sounds like you just need a new plugin to adjust the pitches. Try downloading something else or see if you can find a different plugin included - like I said, I dont use any of the softwares you mentioned.

 

[MundaPKVailatiDaru]

[SIZE=small]That's weird, because ideally a piece that has been professionally mixed and mastered shouldn't distort when you speed it up or pitch it up too. Try one of these options:[/SIZE]
[/size]
[/size][SIZE=small]1. in ableton there is a free apple audio unit plugin (if you're using a mac) called "aupitch", which isn't all that great but is ok for certain things. [/SIZE]2. there's also, as you noticed, frequency shifter, which i have found to be more of its own effect rather than a real pitch shifter, so it isn't really suited to most purposes that i would say requires a pitch shifter specifically.3. a free audio unit plugin called speedster is a pitch and speed effect (you can control either independently). overall quality of pitch shifting is ok.4. free autio unit plugin called octave shifter 25. free vst or autio unit plugin madshifta (already recommended). i like this one, because you can control the degree of pitch shift with a midi keyboard and it's overall sound is kinda glitchy and cool. definitely not what i would call an accurate pitch shifter but one of the most fun to use. props to the inventor. [/size]

 

[ishaankolluri]

I dont use any of the softwares you mentioned, but sounds like you just need a new plugin to adjust the pitches. Try downloading something else or see if you can find a different plugin included - like I said, I dont use any of the softwares you mentioned.

Out of curiosity, what software do you use? Additionally, how do alternative plugins approach pitch adjustment differently?


Thanks to both of you!

 

[GSingh]

There should be something in Logic that allows you to select stretching algorithm. I've seen them in Acid and FL. Acid has Elastique and Classic, which further break down into "Efficient" and "Pro" for elastique and and bunch of other random instrument specific options for classic that I've never had success with. In FL, there are various methods to treat your samples. Read the "OPTIONS" portion here: FL STUDIO MANUAL - Time and Pitch
This is for the latest version of FL which has new modes like elastique and stuff; I'm use the previous version and only know how the 'legacy' modes work.

There HAS TO be something similar to that in logic. If not, fail program.

 

[kman58]

Any plugin that makes pitch-shifting and speeding up a track possible should have settings to adjust the formants and/or envelopes in the audio file. Try adjusting the number of formants in the audio track after you apply your specific software's timestretch algorithm to it and it should help clean up the vocals a little bit (if you don't know what formants are, essentially they are [SIZE=small]bands of frequency that determine the audio quality of a vowel in vocals).[/SIZE]
[/size][SIZE=small]^^apologies if this was confusing, just as a disclaimer I work with Ableton which makes time-stretching and pitch-shifting very simple and straightforward[/SIZE]

 

[GSingh]

Any plugin that makes pitch-shifting and speeding up a track possible should have settings to adjust the formants and/or envelopes in the audio file. Try adjusting the number of formants in the audio track after you apply your specific software's timestretch algorithm to it and it should help clean up the vocals a little bit (if you don't know what formants are, essentially they are [SIZE=small]bands of frequency that determine the audio quality of a vowel in vocals).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]^^apologies if this was confusing, just as a disclaimer I work with Ableton which makes time-stretching and pitch-shifting very simple and straightforward[/SIZE]

mmmm sort of. Directly from google: A formant is a concentration of acoustic energy around a particular frequency in the speech wave. There are several formants, each at a different frequency, roughly one in each 1000Hz band. Or, to put it differently, formants occur at roughly 1000Hz intervals. Each formant corresponds to a resonance in the vocal tract.


Try a +2 pitch shift and the compare the diff between a +0 formant shift, +1 and a +2. Each will sound different because the formant is what preserves the tone of a vocal ( (+2 formant will sound the cleanest because it's keeping everything in tune with the rest of the music). If you do no pitch shift, and do a +6 on the formant, you'll get the chipmunk effect. The key in which the music is will remain the same, but the tone of the audio will change. generally when you do a pitch shift, the corresponding formant shift is also applied unless you specify otherwise. The comment about preserving quality is actually to the contrary. The more shifting away from the base you do, the worse the quality will get. In terms of formants, the further away you go from the pitch (for ex: a +3 formant and a +3 pitch will sound good, but a +3 pitch and +1 formant will kill a whole lot of audio data that you may or may not want -- esp in the percussion area.


Formant shifts are useful in music that is vocal-centric and doesn't have much else to even be able to distort. You can do unique pitch shifts that keep the tone of the singer but change the key. Take any Malkit Singh song for example, ANY shifting will change his tone dramatically to the point where it no longer sounds like him because his voice just has that feature -- using formants is a must. Play around though, because sometimes you'll surprise yourself with some cool effects.

 

[kman58]

Any plugin that makes pitch-shifting and speeding up a track possible should have settings to adjust the formants and/or envelopes in the audio file. Try adjusting the number of formants in the audio track after you apply your specific software's timestretch algorithm to it and it should help clean up the vocals a little bit (if you don't know what formants are, essentially they are [SIZE=small]bands of frequency that determine the audio quality of a vowel in vocals).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]^^apologies if this was confusing, just as a disclaimer I work with Ableton which makes time-stretching and pitch-shifting very simple and straightforward[/SIZE]

mmmm sort of. Directly from google: A formant is a concentration of acoustic energy around a particular frequency in the speech wave. There are several formants, each at a different frequency, roughly one in each 1000Hz band. Or, to put it differently, formants occur at roughly 1000Hz intervals. Each formant corresponds to a resonance in the vocal tract.


Try a +2 pitch shift and the compare the diff between a +0 formant shift, +1 and a +2. Each will sound different because the formant is what preserves the tone of a vocal ( (+2 formant will sound the cleanest because it's keeping everything in tune with the rest of the music). If you do no pitch shift, and do a +6 on the formant, you'll get the chipmunk effect. The key in which the music is will remain the same, but the tone of the audio will change. generally when you do a pitch shift, the corresponding formant shift is also applied unless you specify otherwise. The comment about preserving quality is actually to the contrary. The more shifting away from the base you do, the worse the quality will get. In terms of formants, the further away you go from the pitch (for ex: a +3 formant and a +3 pitch will sound good, but a +3 pitch and +1 formant will kill a whole lot of audio data that you may or may not want -- esp in the percussion area.


Formant shifts are useful in music that is vocal-centric and doesn't have much else to even be able to distort. You can do unique pitch shifts that keep the tone of the singer but change the key. Take any Malkit Singh song for example, ANY shifting will change his tone dramatically to the point where it no longer sounds like him because his voice just has that feature -- using formants is a must. Play around though, because sometimes you'll surprise yourself with some cool effects.

Apologies on lack of clarity when trying to explain formants in layman's terms, but big ups on dropping some knowledge on how messing with a combination of the semitone changes as well as adjusting formants can impact not only the quality of the audio but also the potential timbre of a singer's voice.

 

[GSingh]

Any plugin that makes pitch-shifting and speeding up a track possible should have settings to adjust the formants and/or envelopes in the audio file. Try adjusting the number of formants in the audio track after you apply your specific software's timestretch algorithm to it and it should help clean up the vocals a little bit (if you don't know what formants are, essentially they are [SIZE=small]bands of frequency that determine the audio quality of a vowel in vocals).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]^^apologies if this was confusing, just as a disclaimer I work with Ableton which makes time-stretching and pitch-shifting very simple and straightforward[/SIZE]

mmmm sort of. Directly from google: A formant is a concentration of acoustic energy around a particular frequency in the speech wave. There are several formants, each at a different frequency, roughly one in each 1000Hz band. Or, to put it differently, formants occur at roughly 1000Hz intervals. Each formant corresponds to a resonance in the vocal tract.


Try a +2 pitch shift and the compare the diff between a +0 formant shift, +1 and a +2. Each will sound different because the formant is what preserves the tone of a vocal ( (+2 formant will sound the cleanest because it's keeping everything in tune with the rest of the music). If you do no pitch shift, and do a +6 on the formant, you'll get the chipmunk effect. The key in which the music is will remain the same, but the tone of the audio will change. generally when you do a pitch shift, the corresponding formant shift is also applied unless you specify otherwise. The comment about preserving quality is actually to the contrary. The more shifting away from the base you do, the worse the quality will get. In terms of formants, the further away you go from the pitch (for ex: a +3 formant and a +3 pitch will sound good, but a +3 pitch and +1 formant will kill a whole lot of audio data that you may or may not want -- esp in the percussion area.


Formant shifts are useful in music that is vocal-centric and doesn't have much else to even be able to distort. You can do unique pitch shifts that keep the tone of the singer but change the key. Take any Malkit Singh song for example, ANY shifting will change his tone dramatically to the point where it no longer sounds like him because his voice just has that feature -- using formants is a must. Play around though, because sometimes you'll surprise yourself with some cool effects.

Apologies on lack of clarity when trying to explain formants in layman's terms, but big ups on dropping some knowledge on how messing with a combination of the semitone changes as well as adjusting formants can impact not only the quality of the audio but also the potential timbre of a singer's voice.

No don't apologize bro, you brought up a really good topic that I really haven't seen any discussion on. I tried continuing on the same path as you in terms of explaining it in simple easy to understand terms.


Hope to see more people asking about music so we can get a more engaged and diverse community among the circuit. With every post, we all increase our knowledge. Sometimes people don't like sharing their knowledge and keep it guarded as if it's a secret but I think that's part of the growth that we all desire form the circuit. The more we all know collectively, the more we will have to push ourselves to out-do one another.

 

[ishaankolluri]

Lots to think about and learn about - greatly appreciate it!


Thanks to all for the input. I think I have a couple directions I can go with for my problem now. Hopefully after finals, I can return to this topic and post some sort of comparison and explanation so that this doesn't persist as a potential issue in the future for anyone

 

[shwinerz]

I use Logic Pro X, I've got a method that generally works better in Logic than what you do. I'll write it up properly when I get on a computer to make sure I write it correctly!

 

[sahrawat]

I use Logic Pro X, I've got a method that generally works better in Logic than what you do. I'll write it up properly when I get on a computer to make sure I write it correctly!

This would actually be mad helpful; I know Logic Pro isn't necessarily the best/most capable software out there for bhangra mixes, but it is what I've been trying most of my mixing on and I'm sure there are better ways to perform some of the essential functions that I sometimes feel are degrading the quality of the sound... (pitch shift, speed, bouncing/exporting tracks, etc.)


Also, thanks to all of you experienced guys who are taking time to write out detailed answers; appreciate you putting your knowledge out there for others' benefit

 

[shwinerz]

Sorry it took a while - here you go.


Double click on the audio when its already dragged into your DAW and a box appears at the bottom of the screen with the soundwave in it.
There should be two headers - File and Track. Click Track, and then below, click Functions and then Time and Pitch machine.


It'll then say transposition. All you do is enter 100 for each semitone, ie. If you want to pitch up by 1 tone, or 2 semitones, then put in 200. Its also the best way to change song tempos.