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Spartan Bhangra @ Bhangra Fever 09
- Thread starter Harman
- Start date
Was just about to post this. Quick intro about Spartan Bhangra:
This is our second year and we're completely university-based. All of our dancers go to Case Western Reserve University, which is a small engineering school in Cleveland. (Undergraduate Size: ~4000) A lot of our dancers come from different backgrounds and are on multiple teams (hiphop, fusion, raas) because the limitations of a small engineering school (Bad analogy, but think "MIT" in a rundown city like Cleveland).
And the three rules for Spartan Bhangra:
1. Once we start dancing, we don't stop. No huge breaks. No switching dancers.
2. Push ourselves to the limit.
3. Keep it fast, folk and fierce!
Criticism is welcome! Unfortunately for this performance, we couldn't get our dholi and singer to come. (The intro was sung by our singer at our previous competition)
This is our second year and we're completely university-based. All of our dancers go to Case Western Reserve University, which is a small engineering school in Cleveland. (Undergraduate Size: ~4000) A lot of our dancers come from different backgrounds and are on multiple teams (hiphop, fusion, raas) because the limitations of a small engineering school (Bad analogy, but think "MIT" in a rundown city like Cleveland).
And the three rules for Spartan Bhangra:
1. Once we start dancing, we don't stop. No huge breaks. No switching dancers.
2. Push ourselves to the limit.
3. Keep it fast, folk and fierce!
Criticism is welcome! Unfortunately for this performance, we couldn't get our dholi and singer to come. (The intro was sung by our singer at our previous competition)
psoni1
Member
- Messages
- 125
I actually missed your performance at the competition itself, but the video looks great....you guys have amazingg stunts... i think you're one of the only teams who really incorporated stunts (from what i remember)... i actually preferred your spartan theme from last season, but you guys looked awesome either way...
Cherag
Active Member
- Messages
- 400
Good choreography Kinnell...to give you a few quick points, I though that that the Mirza was "run-into" (although the formation came out to be quite well), yet I liked what you guys did with Furr, it's funny because Northeastern Bhangra did phummania the same way you guys did at BBC 2006, but the engry was definitley there and you guys really looked like your were into it....great performance
Just general stuff.....first off, pretty solid performance for existing only two years with dancers who are probably knew nothing about bhangra coming into it. There was good overall variation in your choreo and nice energy....gives off a fun vibe. I would say aside from minor messups, the biggest thing is continuing to work on form with your dancers. Also, mirza wasn't executed properly, def fix that, it stands out. Dancers need to calm down in jhummar. Not in terms of speed, but being less forceful and more precise. In the end girls need to pick the energy up while the guys are setting up the stunt. If you keep working hard, you can def do some damage as a coed team.
Mukandpuria
New Member
- Messages
- 1,413
not going to get to detailed but your missing the wow factor......and i don't mean add more gimmics or throw random stuff here and there...what i am saying it new teams or starting up teams tend to focus on just doing the moves that why they never stick out or just blend in with other teams....you need to push the limits and do creative things with the dance..while still dancing and keeping the traditional element still there.
I really appreciate the feedback! I agree that we definitely need to work on execution of steps and coordination next year. Just to address a few comments though...
I do agree that my team needs to work on developing more of a stage presence/charisma and our execution definitely needs work. But I do believe, in my opinion, that the choreo had a few wow factors here and there and that choreo was distinctive from the standard traditional bhangra, dhamaal, jhummer, khundey, saap, phumania segments that you see most newer teams employ without much variation to the form. I do think we pushed it to the limit (Rick Ross style) in a variety of ways. I'm just confused by what you mean, Abhi.
Thanks! Just a quick concern though, Prerna. Stunts was a criteria in the Rubric, yet judges told us that they didn't consider stunts at all. In the end, teams that took no risks and didn't do any stunts benefited from the judges not following the rubric that you guys, the competition, provided them, and teams like us were put at a disadvantage.psoni1 said:
Abhi, I really don't understand what you're trying to say. You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm just really confused. I tried to vary up the traditional aspects of bhangra. For example, we did double spin phumania, dhamaal tower during the dhamaal sequence, sialkoti in opposite directions for half the stage, gender-separated mirza steps, a unique khundey swing and tried to do stunts that other teams don't really do.Abhi said:
I do agree that my team needs to work on developing more of a stage presence/charisma and our execution definitely needs work. But I do believe, in my opinion, that the choreo had a few wow factors here and there and that choreo was distinctive from the standard traditional bhangra, dhamaal, jhummer, khundey, saap, phumania segments that you see most newer teams employ without much variation to the form. I do think we pushed it to the limit (Rick Ross style) in a variety of ways. I'm just confused by what you mean, Abhi.
HarmanSingh
New Member
- Messages
- 531
The main thing that stuck out to me was the individual execution of the dancers, which was not the best. Certain people stood out as particularly weak and it was clear they did not have much experience or skill in some segments (jhoomar in particular where the grace was very minimal. I think a lot of this is actually attributed to the choreography which was very choppy and did not flow together well). I know its probably tough with there not being many available dancers but this is a problem most everyone outside of Toronto, Vancouver and Cali experience.
I actually agree with Abhi because nothing in the dance really stood out to me. After 5 minutes I can not tell you one segment which truly impressed me or did something I have not seen before. You guys have some good ideas at times in the routine, but they were either not executed properly or tried to do too much. I think the most important thing you could do is work on execution of each dancer rather than doing stunts or trying to make intricate formations.
I actually agree with Abhi because nothing in the dance really stood out to me. After 5 minutes I can not tell you one segment which truly impressed me or did something I have not seen before. You guys have some good ideas at times in the routine, but they were either not executed properly or tried to do too much. I think the most important thing you could do is work on execution of each dancer rather than doing stunts or trying to make intricate formations.
BUMP!
I need more input/opinion on what worked and what didn't in terms of choreography. What was hott and what wasn't? I gotta figure out what to change for next year.
We were a bit bummed out, btw, that we didn't place. We do know that we needed to work on execution/cleanliness, but we thought we did a better job according to the rubric that Bhangra Fever provided than some of the other teams. At this time, nothing can be done and this was our last competition of the season. I appreciate any type of feedback.
Thanks!
I need more input/opinion on what worked and what didn't in terms of choreography. What was hott and what wasn't? I gotta figure out what to change for next year.
We were a bit bummed out, btw, that we didn't place. We do know that we needed to work on execution/cleanliness, but we thought we did a better job according to the rubric that Bhangra Fever provided than some of the other teams. At this time, nothing can be done and this was our last competition of the season. I appreciate any type of feedback.
Thanks!
faizan
Just shut up and dance
- Messages
- 1,736
Kinnell, judges are not robots, they have their own preferences and never will stick to the rubric strictly. It is nieve for you to have that expectation. The better approach is to research the judges and balance that with the rubric. Pashi and Gagan are traditional judges for the most part, and Manish is a modern judge. Even with a modern rubric, they, and any judge will never be able to be objective based simply on a rubric.
Hi Kinnell, here are my thoughts on your performance, overall I was very impressed. Being that I'm an amateur, take what you will from my opinions.
The opening boli of Sift Punjabian Di doesn't go well with the Nike commercial song, whatever it is - i forget the title. I think it would sound better just as the boliyan on their own.
Sapp segment - great energy and I think you did a great job making the stage look relatively full even though only the guys were on stage.
Circular formation at 1:32 onwards was very energetic and kept me engaged! Very good energy here - you guys came out swingin'
The line shooting forward at 1:49 - was on point. Clean and energetic - so in summary up to 2:11 when mirza starts, the pace of dance was kept very high and was successfully fast/engaging. A stunt coming out so early in the dance was good too - I like how he (is that u, K?) jumps off and lands squatting, nice!
As for Mirza itself - I think it looked too rushed since everyone had to basically run to reach their positions. Perhaps create the formations such that people can focus on being slow and graceul, and not have to rush. The actual choreo is great, just the distance everyone is required to move - its too much.
The spinning move at 2:45 is great, but I think K is the only one really nailing it by kicking his legs out - try to get everyone else to get their head movements more into it!
Ok so for this formation which begins at 3:00 - I would simplify the moves everyone is doing as they come out of the back horizontal line. With so many spins and high arm movements, it obscures what's going on with the formation and looks too chaotic. Add on the fact that not everyone was well synchronized while doing these moves (from 3:00 to 3:15) and you have a messy-looking formation. It's a great formation idea but just make all the steps more simple to bring more attention to the formation itself.
The zipper thing or the pair splitting everyone into a V thing at 3:21 was nicely done. Good modification of what many teams do (simply getting into a V).
3:33 - I think the transition to jhummar (both musically and choreographically) was very sudden. Maybe make more of a pause between the segments rather than do an energetic move, run to your spot, and immediately begin a jhummar move.
Overall I thought jhummar execution went very well like at 3:42. However, the jhummar lasted only like 10 seconds, then you guys moved on to fast moves again. not sure how i feel about that.
Char Panj - nice ideas here, entertaining!
Haha, whoa is that a sword slash at 4:15? random, but nice. i mean it goes with the move but nonetheless random (as the move could have been good without that accompaniment as well).
Bro btw way to NOT represent Case Western and not use Girl Talk! You should use more girl talk maybe u did and i didnt notice
Sammi at 4:23 - very good execution.
4:37 - double run and jump onto neckspin - love it.
Furr choreo was great, keep it up. It somehow looked chaotic, maybe because of the viewing angle. Might I recommend 2 straight lines or something more simple.
5:25 - this dropoff formation was great and impressive. keep this for next year (since u were asking what to change for next yr...)
5:37 - this "coming to center and then to front of stage" formation was great.
5:48 - nice idea with the jump-claps.
6:02 - I would have liked to hear Chanday on its own, without Sardaar mixed in - it's distracting.
6:30 - as the crowd noise corroborates, the pop-up guy on the tower was a good idea.
6;49 - good daang segment, but nothing remarkable. can't pinpoint what exactly you should change, though...hmm..
7:10 - move everyone back more so it's easier to see the guys jump over their khundas (again maybe its just this video viewing angle). good idea here!
Sher Punjabi - choreo was surpisingly unique (as this song has been used so many times now, its hard to be unique) and doing phumania to it is a good idea. The double spin is hot because u did it to a great speed. However the song ends abruptly and the Stronger insert is random as hell. Just have ur dancers say Spartan Bhangra! in the gap of silence, I don't think Kanye needs to be in there.
Wow. the ending formation is Ill. keep this up,wowwww
Well that was a play by play which I typed while watching. Looking back for an overview, I think I noted two things - chaos and chaos. The mix was quite chaotic with unnecessary police sirens and other such sound effects. I would let the beauty of each song stand out for itself - but this is a stylistic choice that many teams are fans of (NSJ comes to mind as a team that used to mishmash songs extensively, but in their case it still sounded relatively good). I feel that with Spartan, the mix is distracting, incoherent, and a lot of song-to-song changes are too sudden and disturbingly abrupt (since abrupt can sometimes be a good thing). It kinda threw me off. The second instance of chaos is in the choreo. It's very hard to pinpoint (so saying this is probly not very helpful at all, haha sorry man) but at times the dancers seem all over the place. Maybe try for some simpler formations next time, and sloowww dowwnnn for some parts of the dance. Maybe have a graceful jhummar segment - one that lasts 30 seconds or 1 minute instead of 10 seconds (yes, u did Furr and the other jhummar separately, and cumulatively theyre probly a minute, but i would have a solid minute or 45 sec of jhummar to bring out the proper grace u want). Maybe do more circles and just simple lines (2 or lines max). This will allow the audience to appreciate MOVES and GRACE - but when people are running to their next spot or covering too much distance on stage, the GRACE is severely obscured and not noticeable anymore.
Kinnell, please don't let this boost your ego, but really for a lot of moves you seem to be the only one doing the moves energetically or properly. This is a detriment - try to get the rest of your team to match ur explosiveness, otherwise there is a stark difference. For your team to look like a team and to be good overall, EVERYONE has to have this energy and EVERYONE has to be in sync. Hell, my own team is struggling with this, so I know it's difficult (it plagues nearly all teams out there on the circuit), but just something to work on. Go to each dancer and observe their energy then tell them to kick it up several notches. For example, go to 3:55. Of the two fellows in the front of stage, the shorter guy on the right-center is absolutely rotating his body and moving his torso as dramatically as his arms. None of the other dancers are getting as much momentum or achieving as much rotation as this guy. His energy is on another level. If that's you, K, then great job - but u gotta make sure everyone is doin it too - that will enhance ur dance greatly!
Good luck and keep it up! Overall i truly did think it was impressive and that you guys are headed in the Right direction with capital R.
...do more girl talk
The opening boli of Sift Punjabian Di doesn't go well with the Nike commercial song, whatever it is - i forget the title. I think it would sound better just as the boliyan on their own.
Sapp segment - great energy and I think you did a great job making the stage look relatively full even though only the guys were on stage.
Circular formation at 1:32 onwards was very energetic and kept me engaged! Very good energy here - you guys came out swingin'
The line shooting forward at 1:49 - was on point. Clean and energetic - so in summary up to 2:11 when mirza starts, the pace of dance was kept very high and was successfully fast/engaging. A stunt coming out so early in the dance was good too - I like how he (is that u, K?) jumps off and lands squatting, nice!
As for Mirza itself - I think it looked too rushed since everyone had to basically run to reach their positions. Perhaps create the formations such that people can focus on being slow and graceul, and not have to rush. The actual choreo is great, just the distance everyone is required to move - its too much.
The spinning move at 2:45 is great, but I think K is the only one really nailing it by kicking his legs out - try to get everyone else to get their head movements more into it!
Ok so for this formation which begins at 3:00 - I would simplify the moves everyone is doing as they come out of the back horizontal line. With so many spins and high arm movements, it obscures what's going on with the formation and looks too chaotic. Add on the fact that not everyone was well synchronized while doing these moves (from 3:00 to 3:15) and you have a messy-looking formation. It's a great formation idea but just make all the steps more simple to bring more attention to the formation itself.
The zipper thing or the pair splitting everyone into a V thing at 3:21 was nicely done. Good modification of what many teams do (simply getting into a V).
3:33 - I think the transition to jhummar (both musically and choreographically) was very sudden. Maybe make more of a pause between the segments rather than do an energetic move, run to your spot, and immediately begin a jhummar move.
Overall I thought jhummar execution went very well like at 3:42. However, the jhummar lasted only like 10 seconds, then you guys moved on to fast moves again. not sure how i feel about that.
Char Panj - nice ideas here, entertaining!
Haha, whoa is that a sword slash at 4:15? random, but nice. i mean it goes with the move but nonetheless random (as the move could have been good without that accompaniment as well).
Bro btw way to NOT represent Case Western and not use Girl Talk! You should use more girl talk
maybe u did and i didnt noticeSammi at 4:23 - very good execution.
4:37 - double run and jump onto neckspin - love it.
Furr choreo was great, keep it up. It somehow looked chaotic, maybe because of the viewing angle. Might I recommend 2 straight lines or something more simple.
5:25 - this dropoff formation was great and impressive. keep this for next year (since u were asking what to change for next yr...)
5:37 - this "coming to center and then to front of stage" formation was great.
5:48 - nice idea with the jump-claps.
6:02 - I would have liked to hear Chanday on its own, without Sardaar mixed in - it's distracting.
6:30 - as the crowd noise corroborates, the pop-up guy on the tower was a good idea.
6;49 - good daang segment, but nothing remarkable. can't pinpoint what exactly you should change, though...hmm..
7:10 - move everyone back more so it's easier to see the guys jump over their khundas (again maybe its just this video viewing angle). good idea here!
Sher Punjabi - choreo was surpisingly unique (as this song has been used so many times now, its hard to be unique) and doing phumania to it is a good idea. The double spin is hot because u did it to a great speed. However the song ends abruptly and the Stronger insert is random as hell. Just have ur dancers say Spartan Bhangra! in the gap of silence, I don't think Kanye needs to be in there.
Wow. the ending formation is Ill. keep this up,wowwww
Well that was a play by play which I typed while watching. Looking back for an overview, I think I noted two things - chaos and chaos. The mix was quite chaotic with unnecessary police sirens and other such sound effects. I would let the beauty of each song stand out for itself - but this is a stylistic choice that many teams are fans of (NSJ comes to mind as a team that used to mishmash songs extensively, but in their case it still sounded relatively good). I feel that with Spartan, the mix is distracting, incoherent, and a lot of song-to-song changes are too sudden and disturbingly abrupt (since abrupt can sometimes be a good thing). It kinda threw me off. The second instance of chaos is in the choreo. It's very hard to pinpoint (so saying this is probly not very helpful at all, haha sorry man) but at times the dancers seem all over the place. Maybe try for some simpler formations next time, and sloowww dowwnnn for some parts of the dance. Maybe have a graceful jhummar segment - one that lasts 30 seconds or 1 minute instead of 10 seconds (yes, u did Furr and the other jhummar separately, and cumulatively theyre probly a minute, but i would have a solid minute or 45 sec of jhummar to bring out the proper grace u want). Maybe do more circles and just simple lines (2 or lines max). This will allow the audience to appreciate MOVES and GRACE - but when people are running to their next spot or covering too much distance on stage, the GRACE is severely obscured and not noticeable anymore.
Kinnell, please don't let this boost your ego, but really for a lot of moves you seem to be the only one doing the moves energetically or properly. This is a detriment - try to get the rest of your team to match ur explosiveness, otherwise there is a stark difference. For your team to look like a team and to be good overall, EVERYONE has to have this energy and EVERYONE has to be in sync. Hell, my own team is struggling with this, so I know it's difficult (it plagues nearly all teams out there on the circuit), but just something to work on. Go to each dancer and observe their energy then tell them to kick it up several notches. For example, go to 3:55. Of the two fellows in the front of stage, the shorter guy on the right-center is absolutely rotating his body and moving his torso as dramatically as his arms. None of the other dancers are getting as much momentum or achieving as much rotation as this guy. His energy is on another level. If that's you, K, then great job - but u gotta make sure everyone is doin it too - that will enhance ur dance greatly!
Good luck and keep it up! Overall i truly did think it was impressive and that you guys are headed in the Right direction with capital R.
...do more girl talk
sulmoney
smd, bitch
- Messages
- 532
ok here we go
a) the first thing that stuck out to me about this team was your uniforms. having school colors is nice and all, but its not 2004 anymore. if you are going to follow the trends in bhangra (as it is obviously clear you are trying to do with your team), then you need to have multi colored vardiyaan and dance in joris. thats minus points right there. also, chaadre are tied to high, and i saw way too much leg from your guys.
b) the mela scene is severely lacking. there is no movement, the stage looks empty. you have a coed team, use the girls in the mela scene. with 6 people and with everyone being stationary, it comes across as an wholly unimpressive intro.
c) saap segment, see above in regards to the empty stage. you must must must take advantage of the fact that you have 12 dancers, use them all. you talk about not taking breaks once you start; well, the girls have a good minute off before anything even happens. the segment is good with high energy, but looks messy at times, and again, the stage just looks awfully empty, especially because your guys are small. you can pull off separate guy/girl segments, but you need to have 8 on stage, plain and simple, or else its just a waste of stage space.
d) you have this asian dancer who was in the front when the girls come in. he is so robotic and stiff with all of his movements that it is all i could see when watching you guys live. you need to loosen him up and work with him to loosen up his style.
e) your girls are really really weak. theres no other way to go about it, you need to work with them as a whole to get them up to any sort of par with the guys. anytime they are on stage, they are out of synch with each other and it detracts so much from the performance.
f) one thing i really like about you guys that all teams should do is that you are all so loud on stage. it makes the performance so much better than it has any right to be.
g) the throw kinnell in the air stunt. i saw that coming as soon as i heard the bomber noise. the problem with it is that it is executed so poorly. if you are gonna get thrown in the air, get THROWN in the air, dont make it look like you just fell off of someones shoulders. you need to clear his turla cleanly.
h) the mirza, ugh the mirza. like was previously mentioned, it was executed so poorly and to a song that everyone has done mirza to before, that it detracted so much from the performance. find a new mirza song, work on actually doing it correctly, or just drop the segment.
i) nothing wow after that for gerhe and shonk, i really started to lose interest then.
j) the jhoomer/300 part, it was just super messy. the jumps were off by like a good beat or two and is audible groan inducing. it almost made me think you tried to be off on the jumps on purpose, but that would just be asinine.
k) the formations you use in char panj would look so much better with multi colored joris, you dont even know. wasted opportunity. thats another thing. when you are trying to be "folk", folk formations dont work when you arent fully folk. if you dont have multicolored joris, it just doesnt work at all. the effect is lost and it ends up looking messy.
l) "the death necklace" stunt (or as i like to call it, actual smd action) is done for such a short time that its worthless. again, if you are gonna do stunts (and then later complain that you deserve points for stunts), then make sure to DO them. extend it for more than one spin. and make sure the dismount is clean as well.
m) choreo to furr is tight, no debating that, its easily your best segment.
n) chanday is so messy its awful.
o) if i remember correctly (and if im wrong, just disregard this), but you guys are using, as you once upon a time said, "fake ass khundey". if you want to be considered a legit team, get legit props. use samma wale dhaangs. and just a side note to that, the cloth you guys tied to the dhaangs are hella huge and look like rumaalan and make the dance look messy. and, if you are trying to be really folk, a dhaang segment goes in the beginning.
p) during the jumps at the end, the girls dont jump, they just hop. they need to be doing butt kicks (where you kick your own ass). also, the girls are all over the place during the ending stunt setup, that takes soooo long.
phew. the main thing comes down to this. Content removed: hearsay. you guys have improved, no doubt, but you still have a long way to go before you can start coming anywhere and making these kinds of demands and statements. you claim to be folk, but are still a long way off from that, from various aspects such as uniforms, to having stunts in your performance. the umbrella term bhangra still refers to a dance, and your ability to dance as a team determines how good you are as a whole. if your team cant dance as a unit and be clean, it doesnt matter how many "chances" you take, or how creative your choreography is. are you honestly saying that the 3 placing teams took no chances? until you can take a step back from your own personal biases and fully analyze your performance against others, be happy that you put on a competitive performance.
a) the first thing that stuck out to me about this team was your uniforms. having school colors is nice and all, but its not 2004 anymore. if you are going to follow the trends in bhangra (as it is obviously clear you are trying to do with your team), then you need to have multi colored vardiyaan and dance in joris. thats minus points right there. also, chaadre are tied to high, and i saw way too much leg from your guys.
b) the mela scene is severely lacking. there is no movement, the stage looks empty. you have a coed team, use the girls in the mela scene. with 6 people and with everyone being stationary, it comes across as an wholly unimpressive intro.
c) saap segment, see above in regards to the empty stage. you must must must take advantage of the fact that you have 12 dancers, use them all. you talk about not taking breaks once you start; well, the girls have a good minute off before anything even happens. the segment is good with high energy, but looks messy at times, and again, the stage just looks awfully empty, especially because your guys are small. you can pull off separate guy/girl segments, but you need to have 8 on stage, plain and simple, or else its just a waste of stage space.
d) you have this asian dancer who was in the front when the girls come in. he is so robotic and stiff with all of his movements that it is all i could see when watching you guys live. you need to loosen him up and work with him to loosen up his style.
e) your girls are really really weak. theres no other way to go about it, you need to work with them as a whole to get them up to any sort of par with the guys. anytime they are on stage, they are out of synch with each other and it detracts so much from the performance.
f) one thing i really like about you guys that all teams should do is that you are all so loud on stage. it makes the performance so much better than it has any right to be.
g) the throw kinnell in the air stunt. i saw that coming as soon as i heard the bomber noise. the problem with it is that it is executed so poorly. if you are gonna get thrown in the air, get THROWN in the air, dont make it look like you just fell off of someones shoulders. you need to clear his turla cleanly.
h) the mirza, ugh the mirza. like was previously mentioned, it was executed so poorly and to a song that everyone has done mirza to before, that it detracted so much from the performance. find a new mirza song, work on actually doing it correctly, or just drop the segment.
i) nothing wow after that for gerhe and shonk, i really started to lose interest then.
j) the jhoomer/300 part, it was just super messy. the jumps were off by like a good beat or two and is audible groan inducing. it almost made me think you tried to be off on the jumps on purpose, but that would just be asinine.
k) the formations you use in char panj would look so much better with multi colored joris, you dont even know. wasted opportunity. thats another thing. when you are trying to be "folk", folk formations dont work when you arent fully folk. if you dont have multicolored joris, it just doesnt work at all. the effect is lost and it ends up looking messy.
l) "the death necklace" stunt (or as i like to call it, actual smd action) is done for such a short time that its worthless. again, if you are gonna do stunts (and then later complain that you deserve points for stunts), then make sure to DO them. extend it for more than one spin. and make sure the dismount is clean as well.
m) choreo to furr is tight, no debating that, its easily your best segment.
n) chanday is so messy its awful.
o) if i remember correctly (and if im wrong, just disregard this), but you guys are using, as you once upon a time said, "fake ass khundey". if you want to be considered a legit team, get legit props. use samma wale dhaangs. and just a side note to that, the cloth you guys tied to the dhaangs are hella huge and look like rumaalan and make the dance look messy. and, if you are trying to be really folk, a dhaang segment goes in the beginning.
p) during the jumps at the end, the girls dont jump, they just hop. they need to be doing butt kicks (where you kick your own ass). also, the girls are all over the place during the ending stunt setup, that takes soooo long.
phew. the main thing comes down to this. Content removed: hearsay. you guys have improved, no doubt, but you still have a long way to go before you can start coming anywhere and making these kinds of demands and statements. you claim to be folk, but are still a long way off from that, from various aspects such as uniforms, to having stunts in your performance. the umbrella term bhangra still refers to a dance, and your ability to dance as a team determines how good you are as a whole. if your team cant dance as a unit and be clean, it doesnt matter how many "chances" you take, or how creative your choreography is. are you honestly saying that the 3 placing teams took no chances? until you can take a step back from your own personal biases and fully analyze your performance against others, be happy that you put on a competitive performance.
Sulman, I'm going to respond to your post first. I really appreciated your post and it helps me and my team quite a lot. All of your points are legit and I will work hard to continue to improve myself and my team. For reference, we did use REAL khundey and some of them are quite heavy. I doubt I'd call out other teams for not using them if my own team didn't. That would be hypocritical.
In addition, the girls danced for 7 minutes straight, btw. The guys danced for more, yes. But 7 minutes is still a full routine.
However, there are few things I need to answer in your post.
I never made a statement about SMD placing and it being charity. Refrain from putting words in my mouth or twisting my thoughts. All teams that placed were great and the judges placed good teams. There's no question about that, so please do not put words in my mouth dude.
Making such an accusation is hypocritical, Sulman, as a moderator of BTF, where you have modded me for apparently doing the same. Honestly, I cannot believe something so absurd could be said.
It's clear that a lot of rumours have been thrown out there and that there are huge biases in your own post. It saddens me that I had to post that in the open. I appreciate that you took your time to critique us and judging according to rubric will always be an issue that we will debate on BTF.
In addition, the girls danced for 7 minutes straight, btw. The guys danced for more, yes. But 7 minutes is still a full routine.
However, there are few things I need to answer in your post.
After any competition, there will be multiple teams that will feel that they should have deserved to place over other teams. Like these teams, I simply asked for other perspective.sulmoney said:
Demanding is a very strong word, Sulman. We asked why we didn't place and offered our insight on why we thought we should have. The judges gave their evaluation and their reasoning, which were unfortunately, unsatisfying. We did take many things that they said to heart and do understand the general gist of their decision, but some of the reasons they gave for not placing us were unsettling to me and my team.sulmoney said:
Your choice of words, Sulman Mirza, indicates a strong bias. As I told you in person and I would not lie to your face or to your back, I like SMD and how they've improved. I miss the fact that you guys are no longer live and enjoyed a lot of surprise moments that the choreo had. As with every captain on every team, we want a FAIR chance at placing. Just like when the judges were announced and an issue was brought forth with one of the judges and his affiliations and that the order of the line-up was determined to accommodate for people dancing on two teams, captains just wanted to make sure the placings were fair and legit and that things like speaker malfunctions were not considered at all.sulmoney said:
I never made a statement about SMD placing and it being charity. Refrain from putting words in my mouth or twisting my thoughts. All teams that placed were great and the judges placed good teams. There's no question about that, so please do not put words in my mouth dude.
Hearsay? (Don't Mods try to stop that shit?) The reason I ask is because that never happened. I asked the liaison where the judges rooms were. He simply brought us there. The judges asked us whether we were BX Bhangra. We said no, we were not. Multiple times. We said, we can wait. There was no one else outside so the judges said that's fine and not to worry.sulmoney said:
Making such an accusation is hypocritical, Sulman, as a moderator of BTF, where you have modded me for apparently doing the same. Honestly, I cannot believe something so absurd could be said.
Making these kinds of demands and statements? I have seen a variety of teams come on here and bring up issues they believed they had with judging. It's just my opinion. I apologize that I am not part of a Brampton Academy or VCU Bhangra in order for my opinion to hold some weight. What should I do, Sulman, to be qualified in your eyes, to make such statements?sulmoney said:
I agree. Spartan Bhangra has a long way to go. We are collegiate. We go to a small academic-heavy engineering school. Bhangra dancers are hard to come by, yet despite this, we will continue to try to go folk the best way we can. As a team, we will never be Gabroo Shokeen or Shan-E-Punjab and we acknowledge our limitations, yet we will continue to try to make our name by going folk in our own Spartan way.sulmoney said:
I did not say that the 3 placing teams took no chances. It's obvious now that it all came down to execution. And there lies the most important criteria of judging. Spartan Bhangra will work on execution in the year to come.sulmoney said:
It's clear that a lot of rumours have been thrown out there and that there are huge biases in your own post. It saddens me that I had to post that in the open. I appreciate that you took your time to critique us and judging according to rubric will always be an issue that we will debate on BTF.
Yeah, I have come to realize this, faizan, and I'm glad you've pointed it out. I tried to appeal to both types of judges by having stunts (modern) and doing more traditional components (like mirza, which has easily become one of my favorite songs as well as a favorite song of many of my teammates).faizan said:
Do you think judges should be more objective based? (AKA "Did they do Phumania or Variation?" (2/2 points) Did they do stunts? (5/5 points) Did they sprawl themselves on the floor before the award ceremony? (10000/10000 points) ;D Just Kidding - That was hilarious btw.) Or should judges just be given 5 categories to distribute points according to?
Arjun, you just made my day! This helps me a lot. Yeah, that's me that you saw (the short gujju-looking kid lol) and definitely opens my eyes. I definitely need to spend more time working on getting the rest of the team to a level where they can execute folk to a greater degree of appeal. Thanks a lot for your critique! Appreciated way too much!Arjun said:Hi Kinnell, here are my thoughts on your performance, overall I was very impressed. Being that I'm an amateur, take what you will from my opinions.
The opening boli of Sift Punjabian Di doesn't go well with the Nike commercial song, whatever it is - i forget the title. I think it would sound better just as the boliyan on their own.
Sapp segment - great energy and I think you did a great job making the stage look relatively full even though only the guys were on stage.
Circular formation at 1:32 onwards was very energetic and kept me engaged! Very good energy here - you guys came out swingin'
The line shooting forward at 1:49 - was on point. Clean and energetic - so in summary up to 2:11 when mirza starts, the pace of dance was kept very high and was successfully fast/engaging. A stunt coming out so early in the dance was good too - I like how he (is that u, K?) jumps off and lands squatting, nice!
As for Mirza itself - I think it looked too rushed since everyone had to basically run to reach their positions. Perhaps create the formations such that people can focus on being slow and graceul, and not have to rush. The actual choreo is great, just the distance everyone is required to move - its too much.
The spinning move at 2:45 is great, but I think K is the only one really nailing it by kicking his legs out - try to get everyone else to get their head movements more into it!
Ok so for this formation which begins at 3:00 - I would simplify the moves everyone is doing as they come out of the back horizontal line. With so many spins and high arm movements, it obscures what's going on with the formation and looks too chaotic. Add on the fact that not everyone was well synchronized while doing these moves (from 3:00 to 3:15) and you have a messy-looking formation. It's a great formation idea but just make all the steps more simple to bring more attention to the formation itself.
The zipper thing or the pair splitting everyone into a V thing at 3:21 was nicely done. Good modification of what many teams do (simply getting into a V).
3:33 - I think the transition to jhummar (both musically and choreographically) was very sudden. Maybe make more of a pause between the segments rather than do an energetic move, run to your spot, and immediately begin a jhummar move.
Overall I thought jhummar execution went very well like at 3:42. However, the jhummar lasted only like 10 seconds, then you guys moved on to fast moves again. not sure how i feel about that.
Char Panj - nice ideas here, entertaining!
Haha, whoa is that a sword slash at 4:15? random, but nice. i mean it goes with the move but nonetheless random (as the move could have been good without that accompaniment as well).
Bro btw way to NOT represent Case Western and not use Girl Talk! You should use more girl talk
Sammi at 4:23 - very good execution.
4:37 - double run and jump onto neckspin - love it.
Furr choreo was great, keep it up. It somehow looked chaotic, maybe because of the viewing angle. Might I recommend 2 straight lines or something more simple.
5:25 - this dropoff formation was great and impressive. keep this for next year (since u were asking what to change for next yr...)
5:37 - this "coming to center and then to front of stage" formation was great.
5:48 - nice idea with the jump-claps.
6:02 - I would have liked to hear Chanday on its own, without Sardaar mixed in - it's distracting.
6:30 - as the crowd noise corroborates, the pop-up guy on the tower was a good idea.
6;49 - good daang segment, but nothing remarkable. can't pinpoint what exactly you should change, though...hmm..
7:10 - move everyone back more so it's easier to see the guys jump over their khundas (again maybe its just this video viewing angle). good idea here!
Sher Punjabi - choreo was surpisingly unique (as this song has been used so many times now, its hard to be unique) and doing phumania to it is a good idea. The double spin is hot because u did it to a great speed. However the song ends abruptly and the Stronger insert is random as hell. Just have ur dancers say Spartan Bhangra! in the gap of silence, I don't think Kanye needs to be in there.
Wow. the ending formation is Ill. keep this up,wowwww
Well that was a play by play which I typed while watching. Looking back for an overview, I think I noted two things - chaos and chaos. The mix was quite chaotic with unnecessary police sirens and other such sound effects. I would let the beauty of each song stand out for itself - but this is a stylistic choice that many teams are fans of (NSJ comes to mind as a team that used to mishmash songs extensively, but in their case it still sounded relatively good). I feel that with Spartan, the mix is distracting, incoherent, and a lot of song-to-song changes are too sudden and disturbingly abrupt (since abrupt can sometimes be a good thing). It kinda threw me off. The second instance of chaos is in the choreo. It's very hard to pinpoint (so saying this is probly not very helpful at all, haha sorry man) but at times the dancers seem all over the place. Maybe try for some simpler formations next time, and sloowww dowwnnn for some parts of the dance. Maybe have a graceful jhummar segment - one that lasts 30 seconds or 1 minute instead of 10 seconds (yes, u did Furr and the other jhummar separately, and cumulatively theyre probly a minute, but i would have a solid minute or 45 sec of jhummar to bring out the proper grace u want). Maybe do more circles and just simple lines (2 or lines max). This will allow the audience to appreciate MOVES and GRACE - but when people are running to their next spot or covering too much distance on stage, the GRACE is severely obscured and not noticeable anymore.
Kinnell, please don't let this boost your ego, but really for a lot of moves you seem to be the only one doing the moves energetically or properly. This is a detriment - try to get the rest of your team to match ur explosiveness, otherwise there is a stark difference. For your team to look like a team and to be good overall, EVERYONE has to have this energy and EVERYONE has to be in sync. Hell, my own team is struggling with this, so I know it's difficult (it plagues nearly all teams out there on the circuit), but just something to work on. Go to each dancer and observe their energy then tell them to kick it up several notches. For example, go to 3:55. Of the two fellows in the front of stage, the shorter guy on the right-center is absolutely rotating his body and moving his torso as dramatically as his arms. None of the other dancers are getting as much momentum or achieving as much rotation as this guy. His energy is on another level. If that's you, K, then great job - but u gotta make sure everyone is doin it too - that will enhance ur dance greatly!
Good luck and keep it up! Overall i truly did think it was impressive and that you guys are headed in the Right direction with capital R.
...do more girl talk
faizan
Just shut up and dance
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Judges should be 100% objective, but that is impossible. The best judges are those that make no false-pretenses about who they are and how they will judge. Pashi and Atinder are examples.
Judge of the Year (on the east coast) Pashi Singh Malik...hands down...can I get an Amen?
Judge of the Year (on the east coast) Pashi Singh Malik...hands down...can I get an Amen?
