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State of Hip Hop
- Thread starter faizan
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Jeeti
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Clearly to say that Drake is riding the waves of Lil Wayne, you have not actually been LISTENING to drake but rather associating him with Lil Wayne and his label and writing him off...faizan said:
Drake is light years ahead of Wayne already LYRICALLY...drake has released tons and tons of quality tracks already without having released a SINGLE album..these tracks were released WELL BEFORE his contract with Lil Wayne...well before they were even associated...even when the kid was sittin in toronto without a label..he was absolutely killing tracks.. (see Say What's Real)...
...just wait till Thank Me Later comes out...
FG...I will be glad to send you multiple drake tracks exhibiting his lyrical prowess as well as the swagger required to truly become a mainstream hip hop juggernaut...to prove that your statement that Drake is "riding Lil Wayne's waves"...is not well founded. Before I get a comparison to your old school well established rappers like Jay Z and Nas, save it...its too early in Drake's career for those comparisons.
faizan
Just shut up and dance
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Jeeti, first and foremost, I stand by my original argument, that drake is not the savior or mainstream hip hip, because main stream hip hop has been doing well since the 90s. Now what about rap music? Well that on the other hand, DOES need a savior, and Drake is definately not the savior of rap music. Feel free to argue this point.
Next, despite your assumption, I DO listen to drake. I have his first main-stream record, and it is solid. Incidentally, LIL wayne is on several Drake tracks.
Drake owns lil wayne lryrically, and so do most rappers. Lil wayne is not a lyricist, anyone knows that. Now, your argument that his pre-cash money songs were fire does nothing for your overall argument in the context of him being a savior. His non main-stream songs, by definition disqualify themselves from buttressing an argument about drake being a savior to main-stream hip hop. Sure drake was nasty before cash money, but jay-z was nasty before hard knock life. You can't argue that tracks from reasonable doubt contribute to jay-z's mainstream dominance, they dont.
Drake will have tons of hits, will be one of the most popular mainstream artists of this decade, and will overall just be awesome. Still, he didn't save mainstream hip hop by any means.
Drake will never get the respect in the RAP world that nas and jay z get, because he has no street-cred. He was on a kids show in a wheelchair 3 years ago. Sorry drake, you're not getting any street cred from me.
That being said, he's a great mainstream artist. Lil Wayne has a lot to do with it.
Next, despite your assumption, I DO listen to drake. I have his first main-stream record, and it is solid. Incidentally, LIL wayne is on several Drake tracks.
Drake owns lil wayne lryrically, and so do most rappers. Lil wayne is not a lyricist, anyone knows that. Now, your argument that his pre-cash money songs were fire does nothing for your overall argument in the context of him being a savior. His non main-stream songs, by definition disqualify themselves from buttressing an argument about drake being a savior to main-stream hip hop. Sure drake was nasty before cash money, but jay-z was nasty before hard knock life. You can't argue that tracks from reasonable doubt contribute to jay-z's mainstream dominance, they dont.
Drake will have tons of hits, will be one of the most popular mainstream artists of this decade, and will overall just be awesome. Still, he didn't save mainstream hip hop by any means.
Drake will never get the respect in the RAP world that nas and jay z get, because he has no street-cred. He was on a kids show in a wheelchair 3 years ago. Sorry drake, you're not getting any street cred from me.
That being said, he's a great mainstream artist. Lil Wayne has a lot to do with it.
Jeeti
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I never really argued for the fact that Drake is the savior of hip hop...simply because that is a rather ambiguous statement..and I'm not even really sure how to respond to that as I agree with you..hip hops been in trouble for quite some time now with no end in sight...
I never really said anything about street-cred...because once again...dude was already wealthy before he started rapping because of DeGrassi and hes half jewish...which isn't exactly your stereotypical hip hop rapper...to think that he'll save hip hop is highly doubtful hahah..I still don't understand how Lil Wayne contributed to Drake's success...Drake used Lil Wayne as a stepping stone for his career..and I actually think that following the success of Thank Me Later...Drake will peace out on the overpaid, undertalented label that is Young Money...and start his own label or get a huge deal with a major record label...
So all in all, I agree with everything you said regarding Drake EXCEPT... although Drake aligned himself with Lil Wayne..his success was inevitable with or without him by his side...of course there is no way to prove that...either way kudos to Drake for being smart enough to, at least temporarily, align himself with unarguably (although disgustingly)..the most popular mainstream rap artist in the game...thank God hes in jail now.
I never really said anything about street-cred...because once again...dude was already wealthy before he started rapping because of DeGrassi and hes half jewish...which isn't exactly your stereotypical hip hop rapper...to think that he'll save hip hop is highly doubtful hahah..I still don't understand how Lil Wayne contributed to Drake's success...Drake used Lil Wayne as a stepping stone for his career..and I actually think that following the success of Thank Me Later...Drake will peace out on the overpaid, undertalented label that is Young Money...and start his own label or get a huge deal with a major record label...
So all in all, I agree with everything you said regarding Drake EXCEPT... although Drake aligned himself with Lil Wayne..his success was inevitable with or without him by his side...of course there is no way to prove that...either way kudos to Drake for being smart enough to, at least temporarily, align himself with unarguably (although disgustingly)..the most popular mainstream rap artist in the game...thank God hes in jail now.
faizan
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Lil Wayne=More popular than Drake.
Drake=on Lil Wayne's record label.
Lil Wayne considerably helped Drake become who he is right now. Whether he would have been successful despite Lil Wayne is impossible to answer.
I have listed 12 songs on which both rappers worked together. Count the hits, enough to shore up my argument that Lil Wayne had a big part to do with Drake's success.
Ransom
Stuntin
Im Goin In
Im The Truth
Be and New
Every Girl
I Want This Forever
Uptown
Unstoppable
Stunt Hard
Ignorant ****
Man Of The Year
Drake=on Lil Wayne's record label.
Lil Wayne considerably helped Drake become who he is right now. Whether he would have been successful despite Lil Wayne is impossible to answer.
I have listed 12 songs on which both rappers worked together. Count the hits, enough to shore up my argument that Lil Wayne had a big part to do with Drake's success.
Ransom
Stuntin
Im Goin In
Im The Truth
Be and New
Every Girl
I Want This Forever
Uptown
Unstoppable
Stunt Hard
Ignorant ****
Man Of The Year
Good looks on that ortiz track. its tite.
You wanna talk hip hop, then you talk old(mos def, jay, nas, krs, raewon et all) and new(consequence, theopolious london, wale, k'naan, wiz, b.o.b, big sean, jcole, jay electronica, drake). Is hip hop dead? eh, not really. I liked jay's older albums, but his new beats are tite, 50(get rich or die tryin was fire, everything else sucked), Eminem's been doing okay, kanye always drops dirty beats... you get my point. I really don't think hip hop is dead, but the artists come and go, and it's interesting to see what artists can stick it out and last 6-7 years. Personally, I'm feelin alot of the new stuff and waitin to see what all the new guys drop.
You wanna talk hip hop, then you talk old(mos def, jay, nas, krs, raewon et all) and new(consequence, theopolious london, wale, k'naan, wiz, b.o.b, big sean, jcole, jay electronica, drake). Is hip hop dead? eh, not really. I liked jay's older albums, but his new beats are tite, 50(get rich or die tryin was fire, everything else sucked), Eminem's been doing okay, kanye always drops dirty beats... you get my point. I really don't think hip hop is dead, but the artists come and go, and it's interesting to see what artists can stick it out and last 6-7 years. Personally, I'm feelin alot of the new stuff and waitin to see what all the new guys drop.
Varun
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Popularity and street cred? Whatever happened to liking music just cause it was good.
I am used to very personal (for lack of a better word) MCs like Sage Francis, Slug, Nas, Eminem....people who put their lives out on wax, for the public to decipher/criticize/or, gasp, learn from. Its extremely difficult to be so dope, creative, and vulnerable at the same time. This is exactly why I dig Drake. In my humble opnion, he's a savior cause he made the radio bearable again.
and then this shit comes on. click!
I am used to very personal (for lack of a better word) MCs like Sage Francis, Slug, Nas, Eminem....people who put their lives out on wax, for the public to decipher/criticize/or, gasp, learn from. Its extremely difficult to be so dope, creative, and vulnerable at the same time. This is exactly why I dig Drake. In my humble opnion, he's a savior cause he made the radio bearable again.
and then this shit comes on. click!
hsdeol
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ahh i love hip hop feuds. imma go out there and say that Kanye West is the leader in hip hop music. i understand his last album (808s) was wayyyy out there, but at the end of the day everything he produces or drops a few lines on is dope. plus he's already working on a new album which will be more like the first 3
i like the mix-tape wayne, not so much the album wayne.
drake is an extremely good writer and he has acceptable delivery. at the end of the day they make catchy music that gets plays.
then you have a whole new class a dudes (liek the 2009 freshmen class of XXL). guys like Wale, Kid Cudi, Micky Factz, and others are carrying their weight too. Theres a dude out in cleveland named Chip Tha Ripper (check out The Cleveland Show <-- mixtape) whos comign up too. also check out this dude named Shaad he's pretty sick.
basically where im going with this is that there are rappers out there who are making more than shit-hop. the problem doesnt fall on the rappers and artists out there. it falls on the listeners and corporations that promote the shittiest hip hop that gets made, which unfortunately becomes the face of the genre.
so when you get down in the dumps about todays hip hop throw on a lyricist lounge or bizarre ride to the pharcyde or midnight marauders or any of those ol school albums (looking for the perfect beat= best funk/electro/hip-hop album ever) and youll be good again.
eric b for president.
i like the mix-tape wayne, not so much the album wayne.
drake is an extremely good writer and he has acceptable delivery. at the end of the day they make catchy music that gets plays.
then you have a whole new class a dudes (liek the 2009 freshmen class of XXL). guys like Wale, Kid Cudi, Micky Factz, and others are carrying their weight too. Theres a dude out in cleveland named Chip Tha Ripper (check out The Cleveland Show <-- mixtape) whos comign up too. also check out this dude named Shaad he's pretty sick.
basically where im going with this is that there are rappers out there who are making more than shit-hop. the problem doesnt fall on the rappers and artists out there. it falls on the listeners and corporations that promote the shittiest hip hop that gets made, which unfortunately becomes the face of the genre.
so when you get down in the dumps about todays hip hop throw on a lyricist lounge or bizarre ride to the pharcyde or midnight marauders or any of those ol school albums (looking for the perfect beat= best funk/electro/hip-hop album ever) and youll be good again.
eric b for president.
hsdeol
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dj2nyce
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kanye is a beast, he understands the concepts in music, and he can truely create magic. college dropout = fire....late registration = fire....graduation = FIRE....808s CANNOT be compared to those but taken for the separate entity that it is, musically it is greatly composed. fuck those that hate on autotune and associate autotune with a few artists (t-pain, kanye)...people claim autotune has killed music when it was originally intended to enhance it. it hasnt killed it, but what HAS happened is everyone n their grandma got their hands on the technology and now they think their voice sounds better with it. but getting back to my original claim, 808's is genius. its deep, it has you think beyond the literal meaning. next time you listen to it...listen to it all the way through, forget that its Kanye (so you're not biased by his previous albums), and look up the lyrics to see how deep he gets on some tracks. ((this comment isnt directed towards you, its directed towards anyone who hates on 808's or jus compares it ignorantly to his first 3))hsdeol said:
some of the realest shit ever said. +1 homie.Varun said:
just because you have hits with a mainstream artist doesnt mean the mainstream artist is the fuckin shit. i dont think thats wut ur tryin to say...i understand where ur comin from. drake linkin up wit weezy def boosted his marketing and got him exposure. however, on the majority (if not all) of those tracks you listed - drake outshined wayne by strides. drake and weezy are both punchline rappers with an abundance of metaphors in their raps, but weezy metaphors are straight corny sometimes and the majority of hood *****s that listen to it go OHHHHHH WEEZY DAT DUDE cuz he says shit that theyd never think of (e.g..."I do everything as good as you, no i do everything betta...i get paid for every letta, a, b, c, etc." and proceeds to state the whole alphabet) but that doesnt mean hes fuckin good, he lost his touch. his pinnacle was Carter 2/Drought 3. drake's punchlines are a lil more wittier and since his first single he dropped was "best i ever had" it tickled all the white bitches' twats and now he can pretty much say almost anything n hes automatically the shit.faizan said:
they cant be compared to actual lyricists, such as jay on reasonable doubt, nas, common, talib, and people everyone else mentioned in this category.
as mentioned before, its not about street cred. cuz *****s in the hood are ridin down MLK Blvd. wit the windows down bumpin drake, Degrassi-acknowledged or not.faizan said:
g-units always had a thing for bein on dope ass beats...like terabaap said "get rich or die tryin" was 50's best album and i personally consider it a NEW AGE classic. definitely a milestone in modern rap. but the best member lyrically in g-unit is hands down lloyd banks (some say tony yayo but i jus wanna slap them across the face cuz they CANT be serious...yayo's BEST verse was on "bad news" before they blew up...ill attach the video for people to check out cuz im sure alotta ppl never followed g-units earlier shit)....but banks takes the award home. one of my personal favorite rappers (in his category, not compared to jay/nas). beamer benz bentley is def more mainstream but banks never fails with his punchlines, especially in the earlier g-unit shit.Kush said:
sorry for the fuckin essay everyone haha but i jus had too much shit to say as i read it n figured id address it all in one post....anyway, heres "bad news"...def check out yayo's verse like i mentioned.
Bad News
p.s....FUCK the murderers of hiphop and rap...aka SOULJA BOY. fuckin lame.
HarmanSingh
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In that list I find 0 classic tracks. Wayne, 6 albums into his career, has 0 songs which can be considered classics...songs you would listen to 10 years from now and say DAMN that was something special...it did something lyrically, conceptually that we have never seen before.faizan said:
If you care at all about "streed cred" when assessing a rapper's talent or body of work, your entire argument holds no weight.
HarmanSingh
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"The problem with hip-hop? Nothin' at all
It's an artform, it ranges and it changes, it evolves
It's not always for the better but be patient with it y'all
For our time will come and the wicked will fall" - Murs
It's an artform, it ranges and it changes, it evolves
It's not always for the better but be patient with it y'all
For our time will come and the wicked will fall" - Murs
Jeeti
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I actually did not look at this discussion till I posted last...I was actually going to say exactly what 2 nyce said..in the tracks that you mentioned, specifically...I'm Goin In...Drake completely DESTROYS Wayne lyrically...it has nothing to do with Drake using Lil Wayne to get mainstream.
hsdeol
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i fully understand, i just said it was way out there cause it was soo different from the other 3. 808s is one of my favorite albums, but to me its more of a new kind of RnB than straight hip hop. kinda like Man on the Moon, its "hip-hop" but theres a lot of it that sounds more of a mix between hip hop and rnb gone a bit emo. seems like a new genre to me, but i like it alot.2nyce said:
also anyone see this aziz shit yet? its sooo funny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6kHINvHJPk&feature=player_embedded#
and
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
second one is for sure funnier
HarmanSingh
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I agree, Drake doesn't have any classics either.faizan said:
This is all Lil Wayne contributed to 'Bling Bling'...
"Bling bling
Everytime I come around yo city
Bling bling
Pinky ring worth about fifty
Bling bling
Everytime I buy a new ride
Bling bling
Lorinzos on Yokahama tires
Bling bling"
do you really stacks this up to Public Enemy 'Fight the Power', NWA "F the Police', Biggy 'Juicy', Outkast 'Rosa Parks', etc?
What in there tells you its a classic? Nothing this guy has done so far is something I would remember or something that would be relevant years from now like all those songs. You can bump Tupac 20 yrs after he dropped the track and still know that the song is a classic. I don't think "Bling Bling" is on par with "Brendas Got A Baby" or Slick Rick's "Children's Story".
If you write the history of hip hop would you really include "The Block is Hot" next to Common's "I Used to Love H.E.R"? I don't think any of Lil Wayne's songs can stand amongst the greats.