Thoughts about ties

[J Wong]

Should competitions allow for ties or should judges take extra time to decide ties?

 

[Deepi253]

i think its retarded .. might as well have a forth placing ...1st place, 2nd place / tie, 3rd place at bruin was dumb. Im a asshole i want that trophy to myself and same with the paise

 

[achintchani]

if the team deserves that recognition then why should u not have a tie?

 

[jfried]

I had a discussion with some other folks who saw the show on the way to the afterparty. I understand the logic of maybe having a tie, but the whole 1st, two 2nds and a 3rd thing is silly. Not knocking DRP, because they were a hell of a lot of fun to watch, or any of the other teams for that matter, but a third place behind a two way tie feels like a misnomer.

As for the tie itself, I understand why you might occasionally need a tie. ABC and AEG both ripped it, their sets were incredibly entertaining, and they were really, really hard to compare. While there's a considerable amount of objectivity to bhangra judging (ie: did your dancers stay in formation, did they stay in sync, etc), the real nuts and bolts of judgement are subjective in the extreme. One only has to look at the scoring spreadsheets that will hopefully be released soon (hint, hint) to see that the judges all have different ideas of what constitutes perfection. This is a double-edged sword: variation is good for fair judging, but by the same token, you occasionally have situations like at Blowout where a team will place on points, but not after deliberations. And think of the last competition you went to: when all teams had performed and you were sitting through the exhibition act waiting impatiently for results, have you ever had immediate and complete consensus with all of your friends over who should have won? I left Bruin as soon as ABC wrapped up and in the car back to the hotel, the five people in the car all picked different placings, including three teams that didn't place. It was really that wide open, and it was really that subjective for all of us.

Tl;dr: yes, ties may seem like a cop-out, but they're sometimes necessary. If you tie teams, though, you may have to rejigger other placings.

 

[Bharathi]

jfried brings up some excellent points in regards to judging. A lot of competitions don't even allow judges to liaise after the fundamental scores are given, and to that same token, score sheets are removed from the judging area once the judges have filled them out. In situations like those, if you are going based on pure raw scores then I don't know how you would NOT have a tie if two teams have exactly the same scoring. People that don't agree, what would you propose in a situatoin like that? Interesting discussion.

 

[Aneeta]

I actually really dislike ties as well. In terms of Bruin, my friends and I had a completely different guess for the placings (all different). The show was spectacular, every team brought it beyond anything we could have imagined. I'm comforted by the fact that the 2nd place ties will each be receiving their own trophies and prize money. I hate the idea that one winner walks away w/o a trophy in hand, so that made me happy! =)

 

[Danny]

Ah there we go, I remembered seeing this on here before

Shouldn't it be 1st, 2nd/2nd only? Maybe if anything, throw in an honorary 4th place and give them a pat on the back? Now 3rd place takes home just as much (if not more) prize $$$ than the 2nd place split

 

[Gurmandanceacademy]

They put these judges there and say they are experts yet tie the teams. Watch any other dance shows or singing shows I don't see ties. If your a judge and have the experience you should be able to figure it out and having 10 judges at a competition and still ties are popping up makes zero sense to me.

 

[Gurmandanceacademy]

I'm not hating on teams or picking sides and yes I do believe everyone works hard and deserves to win and yes everyone is a winner in my books, but if you have 1,2,3 there's shoukd only be 3 placing teams

 

[mrchicity]

They put these judges there and say they are experts yet tie the teams. Watch any other dance shows or singing shows I don't see ties. If your a judge and have the experience you should be able to figure it out and having 10 judges at a competition and still ties are popping up makes zero sense to me.

Depends on the competition. As far as I know, Idols has a very elaborate system for judging which may have placings dependent solely on points. If that's the case, then the judges just have to deal with the fact that their system led to a tie. Other competitions may allow judges some more flexibility, which would allow them to prevent ties. It doesn't really have to do with a judge's experience, it depends on the rules of the competition.

 

[Gurmandanceacademy]

They put these judges there and say they are experts yet tie the teams. Watch any other dance shows or singing shows I don't see ties. If your a judge and have the experience you should be able to figure it out and having 10 judges at a competition and still ties are popping up makes zero sense to me.

Depends on the competition. As far as I know, Idols has a very elaborate system for judging which may have placings dependent solely on points. If that's the case, then the judges just have to deal with the fact that their system led to a tie. Other competitions may allow judges some more flexibility, which would allow them to prevent ties. It doesn't really have to do with a judge's experience, it depends on the rules of the competition.

They put these judges there and say they are experts yet tie the teams. Watch any other dance shows or singing shows I don't see ties. If your a judge and have the experience you should be able to figure it out and having 10 judges at a competition and still ties are popping up makes zero sense to me.

Depends on the competition. As far as I know, Idols has a very elaborate system for judging which may have placings dependent solely on points. If that's the case, then the judges just have to deal with the fact that their system led to a tie. Other competitions may allow judges some more flexibility, which would allow them to prevent ties. It doesn't really have to do with a judge's experience, it depends on the rules of the competition.

They put these judges there and say they are experts yet tie the teams. Watch any other dance shows or singing shows I don't see ties. If your a judge and have the experience you should be able to figure it out and having 10 judges at a competition and still ties are popping up makes zero sense to me.

Depends on the competition. As far as I know, Idols has a very elaborate system for judging which may have placings dependent solely on points. If that's the case, then the judges just have to deal with the fact that their system led to a tie. Other competitions may allow judges some more flexibility, which would allow them to prevent ties. It doesn't really have to do with a judge's experience, it depends on the rules of the competition.

You do have a point but if you want to tie a team then don't split the money which I have seen happen. If you got 1st and I got 1st we should both be getting the full amount but that's just what makes sense to me and that's what I would do At my competition

 

[Gurmandanceacademy]

Sorry for the quote 3 times my phone went nuts

 

[mrchicity]

Ties don't make sense to me either because I definitely think you can take some time to determine which routine may have been better subjectively, even if they were the same in point totals. Certain competitions are just very determined to do things in a certain way.