Thoughts on Obama winning Nobel Prize?

[Arjun Barua]

eh, doesn't bother me. Show me what Obama has done for Peace vs what The Dalai or Tutu have done. Accomplishments and years of hard work should merit awards. The simple fact that he was nominated in the WEEKS after being inaugurated shows that this award loses it's credibility. Obama cannot hold a candle to Yunus, Mother Teresa and Mendela and the likes.

Better... I knew you had something of value to say which wasn't being said. All of the individuals you mentioned are Nobel Peace Prize Laureates, and deservedly so.



Here are the ideals upon which the Nobel Peace Prize is founded:

[quote author=the Nobel Foundation http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/shortfacts.html]As described in Nobel's will, one part was dedicated to "the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses".[/quote]



Here is a press release statement from the Norwegian Nobel Committee regarding the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize:

[quote author=the Nobel Foundation http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2009/press.html]
The Nobel Peace Prize for 2009

The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.

Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama's initiative, the USA is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.

Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population.

For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world's leading spokesman. The Committee endorses Obama's appeal that "Now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges."

Oslo, October 9, 2009
[/quote]



Given the above information, there are 2 major debatable questions that come to mind, of which neither has yet been addressed:

• Of all the nominees for the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize, did Obama best fulfill the selection criteria for the award, as laid out by Alfred Nobel? If not, then who?
• If yes, are the selection criteria for the Nobel Peace Prize the best measure of efforts toward peace? If not, then what?

Many of you have implied or even insisted that Obama is not deserving of this year's award. That means you all must have someone else in mind who is more deserving... I'm curious to hear your thoughts.



And... GO!

 

[terabaap]

Or we could discuss how the award is more reflective of the political leanings of Norway's parliament and political establishment. Either way, the award is still based on achievements rather than aspirations.

 

[justAguy]

thoughts people? this is a huge event.

Absolutely fucking disgusting. An American president getting this honorable prize is like Hitler getting one. Presidents don't do anything but get rich all while screwing us up the ass and making us believe that something good has been done. It happens over and over and over again. A nice looking articulate black dude talking about change doesn't do anything to the country, that's not what politics is about.

Saying that an American politician winning a Nobel prize is akin to Hitler winning it is not only ridiculous, rude, and uninformed, but also trivializes the pain that Hitler caused to this world. Yea, I agree that Obama winning a Nobel prize is not deserved but you don't have to over-exaggerate to make your point; especially in a way that is absolutely unacceptable. Let's think a little more before raging into the absurd.

That being said, jeez it's like the Nobel Peace Rrize doesn't mean anything anymore; Bush and Blair being "in contention" a few years ago, and now this. Ridiculous.

Lol. I'm surprised nobody caught on ... but I was alluding to ... Hitler almost winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

Oh yeah guys btw in 1939 (or 38 don’t remember) the committee almost exploded because they couldn't choose between Adolf Hitler, and Gandhi. Since they didn't know who to give the peace price to (leaning more towards Hitler), they gave it to some European committee, the Committee of International Refugees or something. You all should know that just because somebody is popular, doesn't mean he/she is great. Hitler was TIME's Man of the Year in 1938 (picked in 1939). 1939 n 1942 TIME's Man of the Year was the great … Stalin. Guess he murdered enough people to get him on the list of the greatest man ever… TWICE !

For those of you who don’t know … The Nobel Peace Prize was started by a guy who blew things up. Alfred Nobel created dynamite. His dad messed around with torpedoes, so he followed his dad’s dreams n studied explosives, created dynamite, wanted to market it so thought about naming it "Nobel’s Safety Powder" but instead named it Dynamite which is Greek for STRENGTH … He got a bad rep for being responsible for mass murders, wanted to have a good rep after dying, needed a good legacy, so he said hey listen here's my estate, and here’s lots of money, when I die every year give awards to people all over the world in my name it’ll be cool and yeah life’s good.

Oh yeah here's a fun fact too. Phillip Lenard was given the physics prize sometime in the early 1900s. He and Hitler were butt buddies, he also sincerely believed in the idea of wiping out Jews Gays Commies and the disabled.

Oh here's another one … Stalin, was considered for the PEACE prize 3 times.

Lets not forget Teddy Roosevelt. He killed a nice number of people. He got the prize too. Kissinger as well. Wow, really don’t wanna get started on him. Lets just say, he was a cannibal. He believed in eating 'Gooks' for breakfast lunch n dinner. Search 'Operation Menu'.

For those of you who don’t follow politics… Obama has not changed any of Bush’s policies. He's just made them worse. He only speaks better, has nice posture, and is not drunk at the podium.

Here’s why we're in Afghanistan. We raped Iraq, Halliburton (Cheney's company) made billions n billions of dollars. So did Erik Prince, the so called (and it’s an appropriate name too btw) Christian crusader on a mission to wipe out the Islamic race. So we raped them and left. That's pretty much what we do when we invade countries. The United States does NOT go into places to stop terrorism and to spread peace and liberty. We go for economic reasons. Here's what happens when we go --> We kill lots of people, destroy the nation’s economy, and reap a lot of benefits after stealing their resources, and then bounce because it’s just too instable for us to handle. Now, to keep up in the game of world resource domination, we need to protect pipelines all across Afghanistan. Karzai’s government is only in control of Kabul, and is pretty much corrupt even by our corrupt standards. It's not even remotely close to a real government. If there ever are legit governments (like Zelaya) we either kidnap n kill them or hire people to kidnap n kill them. So to protect our pipelines n give Unocal billions of dollars (they’re making a loottttttttttt of money from us blowing up Afghanis), we label the entire population as terrorists, n just blow them up, it’s simple. The Al-Qaeda is really not that bad, most of the oppression happens from war lords that the US are BFFs with <3 (Read Malalai Joya NOW)
So we take care of the weapons manufacturers that elect our corrupt Congress, spend loads of money on bombs (money that we don’t have LOL WHOOPS), blow the shit out of innocent people, and YAY now Russia can’t fuck with our oil pipelines.

Okay so here's what Obama has done. He's taken care of the weapons industries that elected him. Last month (in the most expensive military weapons spending bill in the history of time), Obama said okie to a huge company of assholes that are ready to spend 11 billion (or some outrageous number like that) on a plane that will be set for WW2 standards (uhmmm didn’t that war happen already?). Okay who else … he took care of Goldman Sachs like his first hour as the president, n now he's taking care of Unocal.

Okay so enough of Afghanistan. Anybody following Pakistan? Anybody following the drone attacks?
Here’s what the drone attacks are.
Drones are 'unmanned aerial vehicles', pretty much bringing video game wars to life. Drone attacks are aerial attacks piloted by a bunch of guys sitting around in Nevada, and are being used in Pakistan. So the military personnel can sit comfortably in an air-conditioned room in Nevada, chill in Vegas at night cuz they’re doing such a great service, go out n spend tax money on hookers and illegal drugs, and then during the day time they can blow villages up using a little video screen monitor --> In 'Hearts and Minds' a Peter Davis documentary about Vietnam, the pilots talk about literally how flying an airplane in Vietnam is like playing a video game, you got a joystick you fly around and say WHOAHH at the cool explosions. These attacks kill mostly civilians.

Okay so under Obama, these have risen up exponentially. The drone attacks have literally, multiplied. The numbers have shot up catastrophically. Why? Because drone manufacturers elected Obama, so now he's gotta take care of his buddies and make more planes and B52 bomers and hellfire missiles (oh yeah literally, the missiles are called HELLFIRE missiles). Obama is authorizing the murders of a lotttttt of people. And he’s getting a great return for it, he's GUARANTEED a second term now, he's actually a BETTER corporate bitch than Bush … I mean the only people unhappy with him are those dying. But eh who cares about them they’re anti American savages anyway (sarcasm).
Okay so check this out. So now, everytime I go to my best friend's house (he's Paki), or my ex girlfriend's house (she's Paki), I get to see their moms crying cuz their country is being blown up! All because we're 'fighting the terrorists'.

So please people, next time you hear one of his well written speech's (that aren'st written by him), remind your acquaintances and family, that he's got two wars under him. He has done nothing for peace.

 

[terabaap]

holyfkinsht
Dumbest POST of December goes to justaguy
You should see Iraq now. Kids going to school, people opening up businesses that would first be afraid because of their RELIGION... the list goes on
Oh and a note, most if not all wars are for economic purposes.

 

[Summy]

Did anyone catch his speech at the reception? Wow.

Basically at the Nobel PEACE prize ceremony, he justified war. Some of his points were very valid, I just found it pretty surreal that he was sitting in the room with people who probably thought the same things you guys are saying (presidents contribute to choas, promote wars etc) and basically went out there and tried to rationalize why it is used.

My favourtire part... When Obama said about Gandhi and MLK (two figures at are always revered in NPP ceremonies)... that he could not live off their examples alone and run a successful country..... akwarddddd

Nobel Prizes are political events. I mean I remember when Mohammed Yunus won his prize for help bringing people out of poverty, and changing how poor people manage what little money they have.... then having him attend a function with the elite society who drove their gold plated limos to a million dollar catered event equipped with centuary old wines...

Right..

 

[kinnell]

Did anyone catch his speech at the reception? Wow.

Basically at the Nobel PEACE prize ceremony, he justified war. Some of his points were very valid, I just found it pretty surreal that he was sitting in the room with people who probably thought the same things you guys are saying (presidents contribute to choas, promote wars etc) and basically went out there and tried to rationalize why it is used.

My favourtire part... When Obama said about Gandhi and MLK (two figures at are always revered in NPP ceremonies)... that he could not live off their examples alone and run a successful country..... akwarddddd

Nobel Prizes are political events. I mean I remember when Mohammed Yunus won his prize for help bringing people out of poverty, and changing how poor people manage what little money they have.... then having him attend a function with the elite society who drove their gold plated limos to a million dollar catered event equipped with centuary old wines...

Right..

I was DAMN surprised that he gave such a speech AT the Nobel Peace Pirze Ceremony. His speech initially made sense. You could not stop the armies of Hitler with non-violence. But I wish he gave that speech elsewhere. I guess he was just as surprised as winning the award and now feels obligated to justify his decisions regarding war.

 

[justAguy]

I was DAMN surprised that he gave such a speech AT the Nobel Peace Pirze Ceremony. His speech initially made sense. You could not stop the armies of Hitler with non-violence. But I wish he gave that speech elsewhere. I guess he was just as surprised as winning the award and now feels obligated to justify his decisions regarding war.

His speech wasn't really about justifying his decisions for war ... if he REALLY justifies his decisions for war n talks about the profits of geostrategy and resource domination, he will be assassinated by corporate mobs, and the people will hate him. It was more so for getting the people to support his deceitful actions, a way of blinding us, he's really really good at that. By going on Jay Leno and speaking so nicely and passionately, the country really doesn't want to think of him as an evil corporate bitch allowing the destruction of thousands of lives families and communities.
Similar to Jefferson. Most people loved him his first term, and he was seen as a success. By the end of his second term he screwed things up pretty bad. The fact that he raped his slaves and almost went broke because he had so many of them, while simultaneously authoring a document legitimizing the divine sovereignty of all men as equal and free, didn’t matter to the people his first term, he was just so full of bullshit optimism and lies and romantic gestures, he won over a lot of people.
And the fact that he quoted MLK. Wow. We were talking about this at a Harlem ISO meeting, people literally wanted to cry because it’s so absurd. Our commander in chief didn’t send troops to spread peace and democracy and kill Osama (who is likely to have died during the first or second wave of Tora Bora attacks).

 

[justAguy]

holyfkinsht
Dumbest POST of December goes to justaguy
You should see Iraq now. Kids going to school, people opening up businesses that would first be afraid because of their RELIGION... the list goes on

Dumbest post? How so? I'd like to hear this so please enlighten me.

And Iraq being better because of American intervention .... wow. I don't know whether I should laugh at your stupidity or cry at your ignorance. American troops blow things up and kill people, it's what they are authorized to do. Their intentions may be right because they are so largely manipulated, but their jobs are to destroy. That's why Halliburton, Parsons Corp, Dyncorp, Titan Corp, Transatlantic Traders, NOUR USA, General Dynamics, AEGIS, Custer Battles, and CACI make so much damn money, cuz when we blow shit up, they can come in and start rebuilding, and their shit gets blown up again, so they can make multiple no bid contracts and get an endless cycle of profits.

When we fuck with other peoples' civil wars to control their resources, we DO NOT HELP THEM.
Since troops leaving in July, things have gotten a little bit better, BECAUSE HE HAVE LEFT, and we're not blowing up things as much. The US left Iraq in shambles, things were much much much better before we came in. The whole 'we put schools and hospitals in their nation and set up democracy' is a bullshit lie to galvanize the idiots like you who believe good things happen because of US intervention. We made hospitals in Afghanistan ... guess what, the technology is so far ahead of them THAT THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE THEM.

 

[terabaap]

Because of this gem
You speculated that Drone attacks under Obama rose becuase drone manufacturers helped elect him?
DO YOU KNOW DUMB THIS STATEMENT IS?
You've lost all credibility at this point
are you seriously this dumb? Do you know anybody in the military? Do you know how intelligence is gathered? How the eff do you think we found Saddam hiding in a hole in the ground? How do you think we knew he wasnt killed during shock and awe?
You have simply reached a new level of stupidity that I rarely see. We have rebuilt Iraq's infrastructure, we have provided them running water, kids can go to school and LEARN!, we've brought in medical technology, our doctors help the sick, we have rebuilt their electrical infrastructure...Do you know anybody that has been to Iraq? Worked for NGO's there?
holy hell do you believe in propaganda.
Saddam used to WIPE OUT generations of certain elasticities and I will admit that we have made mistakes in Iraq, but don't for a second think that it's our job to blow shit up. Much of the secretarian violence is being fueled from outside sources with fighters coming from other countries(just like Afghanistan). I've personally known individuals who have worked for NGO's and for the US military and they would slap you if you said some b.s. like that to them.

 

[justAguy]

I know people in the military, and people who have fought in Iraq and come back, and started campaigning AGAINST the war because of its lying nature that you so whole heartedly believe in (people who are part of groups like Iraq Veterans Against the Iraq War), one of my professors btw.

Saddam killed a shit load of people, but things were stable under him. There is opression all over the world, the US doesn't seem to want to help. If you honestly think that we went in and HELPED the people, then why don't we go into sub-Saharan Africa, lots of people are dying there, why not go in and fight opression and help them and give them water? There are problems in Punjab, why not go there and help kids 'LEARN'.

People are being blown up because Obama's tenure depends on keeping weapons manufacturers happy, why do you think he approved the most expensive weapons spending bill since WW2???????? Please, enlighten me. He repeatedly said that he ‘cut a lot of waste’ and newspapers boasted about how he cut out certain weapons from the bill that are expensive and cause a lot of destruction. Hmm … why would he give over 500 BILLION dollars to the defense department then? Just wondering … why he would give over half at trillion dollars of which most go to people who figure out ways to more efficiently destroy people. BTW companies like Rolls Royce, General Dynamics Corp, BAE Systems, General Electric, General Atomics, and Lockheed Martin Corp elected Obama, now he has to take care of them. Oh yeah guess whose points are UP after this bill ??? Wonder why we’re making 3 dozen more F-35 strikers, ten F-18 jets, 80 blackhawks, 10K hummers (that suck shit and can be shot through with a fuckin bb gun), a couple of huge combat ships… I guess we’re doing it so we can give the oppressed water and education!
We can’t even give our own fucking citizens education you dumbass, budget cuts have a direct correlation to national spending, which is why schools in Cali have a fucking 40% increase in tuition prices.
He has NOT cut ANY waste, and is encouraging bombs and planes that drop bombs to be made. It’s good for industry, and good for his next campaign!!

HERE is what our money is being wasted on. Screw health care, screw education, we need to build super fast planes, NICE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPYDKAtn-7w&feature=fvsr

DO I believe in propoganda? YOU are the one who thinks that blowing up a country HELPS the people. You are literally stupider than a guido, your team name is actually appropriate for you !

In 1955 a study was released that PROVES carpet bombs DO NOT WORK. The reason we continue to do it is because massive industries depend on making weapons, lots of jobs depend on making hellfire missiles.

Okay so anyway back to your idiotic post on something you seem to know nothing about …
“but don't for a second think that it's our job to blow shit up”
Hmm …. So why the use of White Phosphorus? If we are there to help people, then why do we burn the flesh of civilians, women, and children? Just wondering, please explain to me.
If our job is to not go there and kill who we see, why does Blackwater decide to just spontaneously rape and destroy traffic circles?
Here’s a good one, I really hope you can answer this for me. Why does Colonel Gary Brandl spread the idea that --> “The enemy has got a face. He’s called Satan. He’s in Fallujah and we’re going to destroy him” Just wondering.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3989639.stm
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1111-32.htm

BTW, research the drone attacks, lots of civilians die because of air strikes, air strikes are extremely inefficient. If we are really out to kill insurgents, why are we best friends with the warlords that rape woman and then kill them just for fun? Read Malalai Joya’s book, please, and then get back to me.
If you watch ANY war documentaries (which I’m sure you haven’t done), you will see that it INFURIATES the people who have their homes destroyed by big bomber airplanes which are made to give huge companies an extra buck or two.

 

[justAguy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/world/middleeast/21reconstruct.html

"Iraqis working to repair the Foreign Ministry building in Baghdad. A bombing there in August killed at least 60 people. ....... But there are growing concerns among American officials that Iraq will not be able to adequately maintain the facilities once the Americans have left, potentially wasting hundreds of millions of dollars and jeopardizing Iraq’s ability to provide basic services to its people."

"The projects run the gamut — from a cutting-edge, $270 million water treatment plant in Nasiriya that works at a fraction of its intended capacity because it is too sophisticated for Iraqi workers to operate, to a farmers’ market that farmers cannot decide how to share, to a large American hospital closed immediately after it was handed over to Iraq because the government was unable to supply it with equipment, a medical staff or electricity."

"In hundreds of cases during the past two years, the Iraqi government has refused or delayed the transfer of American-built projects because it cannot staff or maintain them, Iraqi and American government officials say."

"Other facilities, including hospitals, schools and prisons built with American funds, have remained empty long after they were completed because there were not enough Iraqis trained to operate them."

"The Government Accountability Office and the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction have also issued reports in the past several months about the potential failure of American-financed projects once they are transferred to Iraq."

" Stuart W. Bowen Jr., inspector general for Iraq reconstruction, said his watchdog agency had “regularly raised concerns about the potential waste of U.S. taxpayer money resulting from reconstruction projects that were poorly planned, badly transferred, or insufficiently sustained by the Iraqi government.” "

"And whether or not the American-built health centers and power plants are ever used as intended, the American companies that won the lion’s share of rebuilding contracts from the federal government have been paid."

" Despite the $53 billion spent by the United States, many Iraqis have criticized the rebuilding effort as wasteful. Ali Ghalib Baban, Iraq’s minister of planning, said it had not had a discernible impact. “Maybe they spent it,” he said, “but Iraq doesn’t feel it.” "

"Iraqis, for whom bombed-out buildings are an unremarkable part of urban existence, also say they have seen little evidence of rebuilding."

“Where is the reconstruction?” asked Sahar Kadhum, a resident of Kut, about 100 miles southeast of Baghdad. “The city is sleeping on hills of garbage.”

"Indeed, despite the billions in American funds, more than 40 percent of Iraqis still lack access to clean water, according to the Iraqi government. Ninety percent of Iraq’s 180 hospitals do not have basic medical and surgical supplies, according to the aid organization Oxfam. Iraqis also have disproportionately high rates of infant mortality, cerebral palsy and cancer.

 

[justAguy]

http://www.antiwar.com/ips/aali.php?articleid=12819

 

[justAguy]

Here are the views of people who have actually gone in and fought in Iraq.
http://www.ivaw.org/faq

 

[justAguy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNWOj_dFSR4&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPI5cQvaJDM&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqZL_2TdPqw --> "A massive killing of Arabs!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN7rRnmNUok&feature=fvw

Research 'Phantom Fury' --> Killing insurgents is pretty much code word for destroy whatever you see in the name of freedom

Oh terabaap, if we are so interested in helping the world out, and giving people water, then why are we such close friends of Israel, who also continuously use white phosphorus on innocent people, all while violeting almost every international law... just wondering.

 

[terabaap]

The upkeep of national defense is needed. It's essentially a big dik contest. The F-35 production is being ramped up so that we can sell it to other nations also. The fact that you find genocide to be okay because a government was "Stable"(i have no idea what definition of stable you subscribe too..) is ridiculous and highly fallable. Yes, I do agree that it's quite sad that the US has become the worlds police(nations should take it upon themselves to help their own societies in constructive ways that can help enable a better and more prosperous future). Your begenning argument has no point really, you are just spouting hateful drivel about the US and it's forgein policies. Yes, it is quite sad that we have turned a blind eye to the situations in the Congo, Darfur, Honduras, etc and I agree that more should be done to garner international attention. The fact of the matter is, we can't put our hands everywhere. We choose to put our hands in certain places due to economic/geo-political reasons(Iraq having oil reserves AND being right in the middle east). The reason we allot contracts to defense companies is so that they can build better techonoliges that can reduce the casualties of our forces. YES people die, that is war. Your comments on our military hardware are ridiculous at best. The Hummer is a well built vehicle suited for a MULTITUDE OF TERRAINS(know that it has to be a jack of all trades). SF have their own budget and vehicles for specific. Do you not think China or Russia is not doing the same and upgrading their technologies? Or should we just let everybody in our backyard? People die in airstrikes because we don't have HUMINT. Do you know why we don't have HUMINT? Because your buddy Bill Clinton killed the CIA's budget(not to say that they get none of the blame) in order to help "Balance the budget". We are getting better at Airstrikes because we are getting better at HUMINT... it's quite simple really. Why send a team of 4 when we can gather intelligence and then strike from the air.
The fact that you connect an increase in drone attacks with the value of a corporation or the fact that Obama is allowing them to happen in greater frequency as a "thanks" holds no water. Obama does not make air strike decisions..... It's really a waste of his time to be making decisions like that since he has much more important things to do(once again proves my point that you have NO idea how the military operates-granted you could learn a thing or two from your professor)
oh and ask him when is the last time we CARPET BOMBED something?
If you are going to argue, at least know the terms that you are using. You are trying to connect a hundred different points that have no relation to anything. You want a more efficient government? How about you make it smaller? California's budget is screwed because of politicians. It has barely anything to do on the national level.
The use of white phosphorus is sad in the presence of women and children. I do not agree that it is our intent to use it on them, but the fact of the matter is that terrorists are b!itches. They hind amongst women and children, knowing full well that we have RULES. It's become quite clear that terrorists don't.
"We can't give our country an education"- Like are you serious? Look at the people on this board? Are you saying we can't get an education? That's the most ridiculous garbage I have ever heard. I've had 35 year old people in my class who chose to go back to school after realizing that it would help them. I'm seriously having a hard time understanding the argument that you are trying to make. It's almost akin to believing that we knew about 9/11 and it was the jews that made it happen.
What I have understood from your first post is that we should have NO innovation in defense technologies(fuck it, let everybody else build it, and we'll just chill out) and then you take the argument of isolationism(when was the last time we did that, and what happened?)
Do I think oversights were made on the reconstruction efforts? Absolutely, but does that mean we shouldn't do anything at all? How else can you motivate the Iraqi people(granted it isn't one ethinicity) to go out, learn, educate themselves, become a part of the global economy(btw there is a correlation between economic freedom and prosperity and social freedom)
Maybe all the doctors I've met and all the Military members I know where not in Iraq, but is some other country...
I will agree, that I was never a fan of the Iraq war, but now that we have a footprint there, we should do our best to make a positive impact. Or you can just focus on the negative aspects of it and never really accomplish anything because your energy is so Anti this and anti that.
On top of that you go to anti-war sites and simply quote their ideas(congrats, you are just parroting ideas) and then you go and post a group that has 1,800 members. How many people do we currently have in the US military? and How many veterans do we have?
Now, what percent is that 1,800 of that total? That's right, there will ALWAYS be a small percentage that does not agree, but does that mean we should totally disregard the rest?

I never brought up the subject of Israel, but I agree that our relationship with them allows them about 15Billion in aid. It's too high of a number in my opinion, but then again, we "give" the most money out of any nation on this planet as aid to other countries... let that sink in... OR should we not give them money at all?
I know full well the history of "phatom fury" as I know Marines that were invovled in that battle. You know why he couldn't shoot at the "insurgents"?? Because they had hid themselves amongst a group of women that were walking to their house.
YES that's correct. Had to let terrorists slip by...
You also failed to comment on my argument that much of the violence is caused by outside forces(what we find in Afghanistan-granted there are two talibans involved...)


SO basically your argument is that of isolationism. I've seen those videos you posted, and more, but that's because i like to look at both viewpoints before I make a decision. And it seems that you have quite an "anti-american" sentiment.
I think you will find on this board, that although we do not agree with the US foreign policy, this country has given a lot to us and our parents in the name of economic freedom, education, and prosperity(why do you think our parents came here with the clothes on their backs?) All of which we need to help bring to the world(Although India is getting better at it, slowly...)

 

[Varun]

Corporations are a stronger lobby than the U.S. citizenry. Thats a damn shame. In the snap of a finger, the military-industrial complex, oil companies, security contractors, health insurance cos, prison-industrial complex, and so many other corporations can get their agendas carried out but we still can't get universal healthcare, 100% affordable public education (up to the post-grad level), and even retirment security for our old?

Damn. Did anybody else notice the whole healthcare debate just disappeared from the news? Whenever the people try to speak out and get shit done for themselves, a million other things happen and try to detract us from the real issues. If only we were as strong as the corporations and their lobbyists.

 

[imakhilyou37]

I read through this earlier today, and im a little too lazy to read through it again to find the quotes that im addressing.

But here are my 2 cents:

First of all, to whoever said Obama doesn't deserve the peace prize because he might be sending more troops to iraq, and we have a war going on etc., to me that's a very idealistic and naive point of view. If we could've sat down with Saddam Hussein over a cup of tea, and got him to stop murdering innocent people, then by all means that's what we would have done... Obviously, that's not going to happen. Sure saddam was killing innocent people, and war has it's innocent bystanders (you can limit them and be more careful but never completely get rid of them), but the difference is the war against Saddam led to peace, and a better life for the iraq population. Now, you can say bush had a different agenda, not a bush supporter, but that's up for debate. The point of the example is sometimes war is necessary to lead to more peace...

I agree with the point that it's way to early for him to get the nobel peace prize, as we have not seen the outcome of him taking office or his change actually take place. But I dont see how the point that he doesnt deserve it because he's continuing the war is really valid.

Justaguy, check some of your facts. Adolf Hitler WAS the man of the year in 1938, BUT ". For the year 1938, Time had chosen Adolf Hitler as the man who "for better or worse" (as Time founder Henry Luce expressed it) had most influenced events of the preceding year. ". That's exactly what media does, leave out some information to completely change the connotation of the event. Research your points a taddd bit better .


Btw, im sure alot of people already know this... But Alfred Nobel, the man who started the nobel peace prize, invented dynamite as well. He saw how it could get in the hands of the wrong people, and be used for war, instead of other purposes... So he felt guilty, and wanted to leave a better legacy in the world and thus created the Nobel Peace Prize.

That's all from me for now... Back to studying for finals for meee lol.

 

[COMTONDAJATT]

First of all, to whoever said Obama doesn't deserve the peace prize because he might be sending more troops to iraq, and we have a war going on etc., to me that's a very idealistic and naive point of view. If we could've sat down with Saddam Hussein over a cup of tea, and got him to stop murdering innocent people, then by all means that's what we would have done... Obviously, that's not going to happen. Sure saddam was killing innocent people, and war has it's innocent bystanders (you can limit them and be more careful but never completely get rid of them), but the difference is the war against Saddam led to peace, and a better life for the iraq population. Now, you can say bush had a different agenda, not a bush supporter, but that's up for debate. The point of the example is sometimes war is necessary to lead to more peace...

The Iraq war has done nothing to increase peace or stability to the region. The war was not for saving innocent people, it was to make people rich. We destabilized the region to the point where secratarian violence between Shias/Sunnis, Kurds/Arabs blew up to epic proportions, there was essentially multiple fronts in a civil war occuring after our so called victory in Bagdhad. Now it is so messed up that if we leave the wrong way or too fast Iran will come in and take major advantage of the situation and make it worse, there are already around 20 former members of the Revolutionary guard in the Iraqi parliament.

Saddam was our buddy, we are the ones who gave him chemical weapons during the Iraq/Iran war. Heck, Saudia Arabia is our buddy, the most repressive Wahabbi crazy mean opressive people in the world. We do not do things to spread democracy our peace around the world, we do it for our elite rich people who want to be even richer.

 

[Sher Foundation]

To justAguy,

Oh yeah guys btw in 1939 (or 38 don’t remember) the committee almost exploded because they couldn't choose between Adolf Hitler, and Gandhi. Since they didn't know who to give the peace price to (leaning more towards Hitler), they gave it to some European committee, the Committee of International Refugees or something. You all should know that just because somebody is popular, doesn't mean he/she is great. Hitler was TIME's Man of the Year in 1938 (picked in 1939). 1939 n 1942 TIME's Man of the Year was the great … Stalin. Guess he murdered enough people to get him on the list of the greatest man ever… TWICE !

The award is not greatest man ever, the award is man/person of the year - A person who, for better or for worse, has done the most to influence the events of the year. Hitler’s nomination was a sarcastic nomination by a member of the Swedish parliament in protest to one of the other nominees whose nomination he did not agree with. Furthermore, hitler’s nomination was retraced few days after by the same member of the Swedish parliament. Gandhi is admittedly one of the Nobel Peace Prize committee’s biggest regrets. The year he was a sure thing to win, he got assassinated and I believe the committee did not give out an award that year since there was “no living person” worthy of the award at that time.

For those of you who don’t know … The Nobel Peace Prize was started by a guy who blew things up. Alfred Nobel created dynamite. His dad messed around with torpedoes, so he followed his dad’s dreams n studied explosives, created dynamite, wanted to market it so thought about naming it "Nobel’s Safety Powder" but instead named it Dynamite which is Greek for STRENGTH … He got a bad rep for being responsible for mass murders, wanted to have a good rep after dying, needed a good legacy, so he said hey listen here's my estate, and here’s lots of money, when I die every year give awards to people all over the world in my name it’ll be cool and yeah life’s good.

no man!!! Thats not why the peace prize was started hahaha. Although that would be pretty funny if that is what alfred nobel thought of the award haha.

Oh yeah here's a fun fact too. Phillip Lenard was given the physics prize sometime in the early 1900s. He and Hitler were butt buddies, he also sincerely believed in the idea of wiping out Jews Gays Commies and the disabled.

Oh here's another one … Stalin, was considered for the PEACE prize 3 times.

You said it. Phillip Lenard won the Nobel Prize in PHYSICS. Not the nobel peace prize. He won for the scientific value of his work.
Also, it takes one person/one vote to nominate a candidate. Just because someone gets nominated does not mean it represents the views of the entire committee. Now it’s a different story if they won.

For those of you who don’t follow politics… Obama has not changed any of Bush’s policies. He's just made them worse. He only speaks better, has nice posture, and is not drunk at the podium.

Above other bush policies that Obama has changed, Obama lifted the ban on stem cell research, he endorsed the decriminalization of homosexuality (a declaration that bush refused to sign), he rescinded Bush’s global gag rule, and much much more. So actually, he has changed Bush policies!

what people might not know is that one of Unocal’s reps (a company that btw is in charge of the trans afghan pipelines), and a CIA asset……is now……*drum roll*…….the current president of Afghanistan – Hamid Karzai. So…you can see why its hard not to provide funding to this company. Its all politics, and for any leader to survive and protect his/her country in this day and age, networking and bribery is required. Think of it as an investment….for the greater good.

Unmanned vehicles are not being increased because the company that makes them supports Obama (although that might be a side benefit)…think about it. No human casualties on our side, we can fight the terrorists with unmanned vehicles – I don’t think I need to explain any further as to why this is a better option. As far as Pakistani civilians dying…yes. Its true. Unfortunately, as a cost of killing Al qaeda militants, many many Pakistanis that live in the outskirt villages have died. But yet, Pakistan continues to allow the US to use one of their own bases as a launch pad for these attacks. Pakistan continues to get paid from it, and continues to share intelligence information with the U.S about the location of the militants. Isnt that a rosy scenario? Zadari continues to condemn the attacks to the media and public, the government continues to share intelligence information and military bases, Pakistan gets paid and looks like the innocent victim and the US does all the dirty work and gets a shoe in fulfilling its own agenda. The depth of political shadiness is much deeper than any of us can ever imagine.

And things were more stable under saddam because civilians were shit scared. Dissidents did not survive too long in Iraq.

"If you honestly think that we went in and HELPED the people, then why don't we go into sub-Saharan Africa, lots of people are dying there, why not go in and fight opression and help them and give them water? There are problems in Punjab, why not go there and help kids 'LEARN'."

Africa is a whole another animal. It is probably one of the toughest continents for our military to crack. Im sure you remember the Somalia disaster with the black hawks. There was a friggin movie made on it. You remember the Rwandan genocide? Yea we definitely should have helped out there too, at least Clinton apologized for turning a blind eye to Rwanda (check out the “Clinton apology”)

By the way...i did not understand the military spending bill either...pretty ridic

All i know is im glad the US is the world's greatest super power right now and gets to make the decisions. It would suck to have China or Russia act as the world police. Insane human rights violations in China and we know how things worked out with the USSR. Or even India. God dam terrible things happening to our people in punjab...imagine that on a global scale. Hate on the U.S. all you want but the problems our citizens face are far smaller than the residents of most other countries.

To Varun:

The healthcare debate has not really disappeared. The healthcare bill is ready and is with the senate. Obama hopes that it will be passed by Christmas time. Check out barackobama.com. His entire healthcare proposal bill should be on there.


Pavan

 

[Varun]

All i know is im glad the US is the world's greatest super power right now and gets to make the decisions. It would suck to have China or Russia act as the world police. Insane human rights violations in China and we know how things worked out with the USSR. Or even India. God dam terrible things happening to our people in punjab...imagine that on a global scale. Hate on the U.S. all you want but the problems our citizens face are far smaller than the residents of most other countries.

This kind of sentiment is exactly what gets the US into wars and global policing (TEAM AMERICA FUCK YEAH!). We believe that we are the most self righteous nation on the Earth just because there is a large enough middle class with computers, cars, and nikes to hide the fact that there are problems just as bad in the US than there are in other places. You bring up Punjab and the Indian government. There have been allegations that the Sikhs have been targeted for genocide, well compare that to the Native Americans. The Native Americans, the original inhabitants of this land, have been wiped out from the culture completely. When was the last time you saw a film starring Native Americans? Or about their issues? How about a class on their history? How about their religion and languages? None, why? Because all that died out when on the Trail of Tears when we practiced physical and cultural genocide against them.

Ok sure, we have some problems here (minorities, poverty, huge gap between rich and poor), but at least we are good when it comes to foreign policy...right? Here's just a small list of great decisions we have made to help the citizens of the world.

-Illegal (by intl law) coups of the following DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED leaders who actually did great things for their countries: Arbenz of Guatemala (Operation PBSUCCES), Mossadeg of Iran (Operation Ajax), Pathet Lao of Laos, Velasco of Ecaudor,Aristide of Haiti
-Military and Financial Support for corporate friendly dictators that ruthlessly suppressed their people: Ngo Diem of Vietnam, Batista of Cuba, Somoza of Nicaragua, Zia, Ayub Khan, and Musharaff of Pakistan, Pinochet of Chile, oh man the list could go on.
-The Taliban in Afghanistan = product of CIA tactical training for the Mujahideen of the Soviet counter-invasion in the 80s. Gave them arms, support, and money to fight the Soviets but then left completely the minute the war was over. Perfect breeding ground for Taliban and Al Quaeda.
- These two pictures speak volumes: http://nikhasnan.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/c12820-32.jpg
http://28thamendment.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/rumsfeld-saddam.jpg

Still, I understand your sentiment. I for sure am happy that I am on the ruthless "winning" side than the righteous losers. The only problem is that China will most likely be the new superpower in less than 20 years. We are teeter-tottering with bankruptcy while they are industrializing and urbanizing at a rate unprecedented in the history of mankind. We all know the stereotype of how aggressive and successful Chinese are in America, well, imagine 1.1 billion of them.