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Vindication for Lebron James
- Thread starter AB7522
- Start date
COMTONDAJATT
mint gumri
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The superstar template to win championships isnt always followed. The landscape of the NBA is much different now than it was 30 years ago. The Cavs were the OVERALL No 1 seed in the playoffs in the last two years and had more than enough weapons to win the championship. D-Wade literally won a championship by himself and the Pistons won a ring without any hall of famers on that team in 04. The reason Bron up and left is irrelevent. If a team can become the leagues top seed for 2 years in a row then they have more than enough to win the whole thing. This isnt the Phoenix Suns who were not built for the playoffs, the Cavs teams of the last 2 years had the best defense in the league and perfect complimentary players that Lebron himself clamored for.AB7522 said:
cool story bro. I am not even from the Bay Area, ewww. Please don't come with this excuse that Jerry west gave Gasol to the Lakers. It has been done to death. Gasol was traded for Kwame Brown's contract. Jerry West didnt even work for the Grizzles anymore. Oh but he used to so he hooked it up right? Get out of here.
This isnt a Kobe versus Lebron discussion. It has been done to death. It is widely established that during his time with the Cavs that he bullied management into moves with threats and pouting. The composition of the teams was largely because of him telling management that if they didn't succumb to his wishes he would leave. Which he did anyway.
Any team that loses its superstar will become the worst team in the NBA. I still don't understand your argument. Oh hey I have a 100 dollars. Now lets get rid of 30 dollars. Oh look I have 70 dollars, I cant do much with 70 as I did with 100. What is so baffling about that? How does that justify Lebron's playoff failures the last 2 years? Was it his teammates fault that he decided to play iso at the top of the key during the Boston series? Is it their fault he gave up on them?
Saab
Today is a gift
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- 991
I agree 100% with Comton. Seriously, read up on stuff.
1. Two types of teams win in the NBA. One is the large market team that spends. That includes Miami, Los Angeles, Boston(im calling them that because they get pub), Knicks to some extent, the nets of the future, dallas.
The other type is the one that sucks chode for a while and gets better through draft, or the spurs.
Those teams are fewer. Trail blazers(who arent great now due to money), the thunder, the spurs, and pre-this year jazz.
Why? Because most teams dont want to spend. A lot of it has to do with recouping money and the NBA salary cap. To make money, just dont go neg salary, like almost all high market teams do.
Notice the cavs dont fall into this. Why? Lebron winning = shitty picks, so you cant build. Second, the state of their contracts blew. They had no kwame contract, or no first rounders to get the big three. Lebron quit on his team. Why is miami doing well? Lebron asserting himself.
D Wade and Bosh are amazing players, wade more so than bosh. However, from GM standpoint, look at them. One is a 6'4 guard that is using his skills from college playing the 3 and the 4 to his advantage. He can slash and rebound better than most guards, and has developed a ridiculous lower body that causes him to rise up. Hes also prone to injuries, and hes not a true 2. Plays bigger than he is. The other is a rat-skinny 6'10 forward that doesnt live in the post, but more at 18 feet. He makes plays facing the hoop. Bosh is comparable to most european 4's and 5's, though he drives, rather than shoots from here.
Now tell me, you add someone who is 6'9 270, flies like a sprinter, jumps through the roof, and can play every position on the floor, shoot appreciably from 3, take almost everyone in the world on the dribble to that. They all of sudden dont have downsides(bosh his relative lack of consistent post play, wades wrecklessness). You can preach this is Wades team, but if the effort is there, Lebron wins. Why was it a big deal?
THIS IS THE BIG THREE BECAUSE OF LEBRON. Your proving this argument guys. In essence, you take either wade or bosh from this team and add appreciable players, this is still the same team(im saying add role playing guys, you can pick). Its where it is because of Lebron. Thats why cleveland fans feel dicked over. Hes asserting himself unlike ever before, and if he would have played this hungry in Cleveland, they would have won. Lebron has made BOTH teams go.
Also, this is partially clevelands fault. You cultivated Lebron into a megastar everyone liked, and he wanted to be a World Player, not a basketball player for the Cleveland Cavaliers. You bragged, and so bought into this guy he wanted to be a World guy. And immature selfish D, who, when he saw what Miami could become, left to further that image. Then you hated him, and provided the only thing an overindulged idiot who was lazy could use as motivation, hate, and he channeled it and made him great.
Yeah, Lebron is right. The NBA is probably going to need to be contracted. Why? Because more and more as the World accepts basketball, and superstars become more than just property of teams, itll need bigger and bigger markets to pen up those Ego's. Screw you lebron, im buying a thunder jersey.
1. Two types of teams win in the NBA. One is the large market team that spends. That includes Miami, Los Angeles, Boston(im calling them that because they get pub), Knicks to some extent, the nets of the future, dallas.
The other type is the one that sucks chode for a while and gets better through draft, or the spurs.
Those teams are fewer. Trail blazers(who arent great now due to money), the thunder, the spurs, and pre-this year jazz.
Why? Because most teams dont want to spend. A lot of it has to do with recouping money and the NBA salary cap. To make money, just dont go neg salary, like almost all high market teams do.
Notice the cavs dont fall into this. Why? Lebron winning = shitty picks, so you cant build. Second, the state of their contracts blew. They had no kwame contract, or no first rounders to get the big three. Lebron quit on his team. Why is miami doing well? Lebron asserting himself.
D Wade and Bosh are amazing players, wade more so than bosh. However, from GM standpoint, look at them. One is a 6'4 guard that is using his skills from college playing the 3 and the 4 to his advantage. He can slash and rebound better than most guards, and has developed a ridiculous lower body that causes him to rise up. Hes also prone to injuries, and hes not a true 2. Plays bigger than he is. The other is a rat-skinny 6'10 forward that doesnt live in the post, but more at 18 feet. He makes plays facing the hoop. Bosh is comparable to most european 4's and 5's, though he drives, rather than shoots from here.
Now tell me, you add someone who is 6'9 270, flies like a sprinter, jumps through the roof, and can play every position on the floor, shoot appreciably from 3, take almost everyone in the world on the dribble to that. They all of sudden dont have downsides(bosh his relative lack of consistent post play, wades wrecklessness). You can preach this is Wades team, but if the effort is there, Lebron wins. Why was it a big deal?
THIS IS THE BIG THREE BECAUSE OF LEBRON. Your proving this argument guys. In essence, you take either wade or bosh from this team and add appreciable players, this is still the same team(im saying add role playing guys, you can pick). Its where it is because of Lebron. Thats why cleveland fans feel dicked over. Hes asserting himself unlike ever before, and if he would have played this hungry in Cleveland, they would have won. Lebron has made BOTH teams go.
Also, this is partially clevelands fault. You cultivated Lebron into a megastar everyone liked, and he wanted to be a World Player, not a basketball player for the Cleveland Cavaliers. You bragged, and so bought into this guy he wanted to be a World guy. And immature selfish D, who, when he saw what Miami could become, left to further that image. Then you hated him, and provided the only thing an overindulged idiot who was lazy could use as motivation, hate, and he channeled it and made him great.
Yeah, Lebron is right. The NBA is probably going to need to be contracted. Why? Because more and more as the World accepts basketball, and superstars become more than just property of teams, itll need bigger and bigger markets to pen up those Ego's. Screw you lebron, im buying a thunder jersey.
Saab
Today is a gift
- Messages
- 991
The topic of the title is right, fyi. This is vindication for lebron, because he has his own rules for vindication, and we will never be able to fathom that.
Also, on a sidenote, comparing the 80's to the present is erroneous. Salary Cap? Owner Collusion? Amount of teams?
Try comparing offensive efficiency of player pre and post lebron, and look at statistically what they do.
Biggest thing I think lebron's presence did was not facillitate a pure scorer(i.e. someone like monta ellis or baron davis, even if they did suck at other things), which would have been huge for this teams.
Also, on a sidenote, comparing the 80's to the present is erroneous. Salary Cap? Owner Collusion? Amount of teams?
Try comparing offensive efficiency of player pre and post lebron, and look at statistically what they do.
Biggest thing I think lebron's presence did was not facillitate a pure scorer(i.e. someone like monta ellis or baron davis, even if they did suck at other things), which would have been huge for this teams.
OKAY... you guys win I loose.
Happy? I just wanted to make friends on this site... I could care less about anything. I have no emotion towards anything. Today I stepped on a nail in my house, and I watched my foot bleed cause its the only real feeling ive had in years... Ill go back to learning about parathyroid carcinomas- stones, bones, moans and groans.
Happy? I just wanted to make friends on this site... I could care less about anything. I have no emotion towards anything. Today I stepped on a nail in my house, and I watched my foot bleed cause its the only real feeling ive had in years... Ill go back to learning about parathyroid carcinomas- stones, bones, moans and groans.
Kush
Active Member
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- 1,401
All fair points (though honestly i'm pretty confused at this point what we're arguing about... it started as basically one person saying that Lebron was right to leave the cavs cause look how talentless they in fact are... which is true, no matter how you spin it)... except for this, Ram.Saab said:
Add role players? haha show me one player in the league that can fill wade's ROLE... you'll find zero. He is arguably the best shooting guard currently in the game, YUP BETTER THAN KOBE RIGHT NOW (you can argue this and i won't fight it but i consider it more of what you're looking at), except for his bit of streaky-ness which is partially due to his shoot first mentality (which is the TRUE mentality of a 3, hence hte playing bigger than he is) So what exactly do you believe is his ROLE on the team... since you actually said to me this may be wade's team but when LEBRON powers forward they win (Flash back to about a month and a half ago when wade went over 40 for 3 games out of four, or flash back to half the months of hte season where wade was averaging MORE POINTS than lebron... and i'm pretty sure theyre still within 1 point of another). Lol sorry bud, you're way off here. There is no role player that can fill ALL the roles of an All star... because then they wouldnt be a role player anymore. Wade carries teams himself, he seems to be more comfortable in certain roles more than others because HE CAN NOW.
second... i'll concede that bosh, ESPECIALLY now, plays a role position more... but show me more than lets say like 4-5 PF in the league that could play the way bosh does (yes is post game is weak, i'm a realistic fan we all know. Bosh needs to grow some balls in the paint), or even play in a way that bosh does NOT that would compliment the other players on the floor in a better way... You'll be hard pressed to find one.
i look forward to a "role playe"r that matches the greatness of dwayne wade... or for you to tell me what "role" wade plays lol.
The Pau trade has been talked about so much. People don't realize Memphis was in need of rebuilding/revamping their system.
First off, it wasn't just Kwame for Pau. It was Kwame, Crittenton and Mckie(all whatever) AND the rights to Marc Gasol(pretty big). Oh yeah and also 2008 and 2010 first round picks were given to Memphis. The 2008 draft they got Donte Green 28th from the Laker's pick, and traded him for Darrell Arthur, who's numbers have actually picked up as of late. The 2010 draft gave the Grizzlies Vasquez, who well, still has yet to play.
Also, you have to realize that the Grizzlies were at 13(I believe) wins when they traded Pau. It just wasn't working with Pau. They shed their salary obligations by trading a $40 3 year contract for a $10 million 3 year contract in Marc Gasol. Not a bad trade off. The Grizzlies have been doing pretty well this past month, but they need to step it up. They wanted to rebuild/revamp the team, and they had to get rid of Pau to do that.
First off, it wasn't just Kwame for Pau. It was Kwame, Crittenton and Mckie(all whatever) AND the rights to Marc Gasol(pretty big). Oh yeah and also 2008 and 2010 first round picks were given to Memphis. The 2008 draft they got Donte Green 28th from the Laker's pick, and traded him for Darrell Arthur, who's numbers have actually picked up as of late. The 2010 draft gave the Grizzlies Vasquez, who well, still has yet to play.
Also, you have to realize that the Grizzlies were at 13(I believe) wins when they traded Pau. It just wasn't working with Pau. They shed their salary obligations by trading a $40 3 year contract for a $10 million 3 year contract in Marc Gasol. Not a bad trade off. The Grizzlies have been doing pretty well this past month, but they need to step it up. They wanted to rebuild/revamp the team, and they had to get rid of Pau to do that.
choochoo33
Member
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lmaoooooooooooooooooo +1kinnell said:
COMTONDAJATT
mint gumri
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not to be a dick. actually, to be a dick. i just wanted to bump this.
looool
looool
Lol I posted a bunch of stuff on Kush's wall...hopefully he doesn't hate us.COMTONDAJATT said:not to be a dick. actually, to be a dick. i just wanted to bump this.
looool
RAWR
and then lebron was like
back in the game woman! Get your head in the game
and then these guys were like
oooo
And then Bosh said, I just wanna chill