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West Coast Bhangra 2017: Reply from Virse De Shokeen

Messages
197
Hi, for those of you who don't know me, my name is Preet Chahal. I have been an active member of the bhangra circuit for 8+ years, involved as a dancer/co-captain for Bhangra Knightz and Virse De Waris, coach of Virse De Shokeen and as a judge for multiple different competitions in multiple countries. I am writing this post on behalf of my team, Virse De Shokeen.

On Saturday, February 4th, 2017, Virse De Shokeen performed at West Coast Bhangra. We were in a head to head matchup with Cal Bhangra. We received the highest average score, but walked away with no placing. Unfortunately, we did not notice the calculation error until after the competition ended.

Some of you may have read the committee’s decision to resolve the issue. In a quick summary, the post states: “Because VDS was not considered for deliberation, it is impossible to state which of the 4 teams would have won overall winner had VDS been a part of deliberation”. First off, we would like to thank West Coast Bhangra for recognizing us as the match-up winners and as the team with the highest average score; however, we strongly feel that an overall winner need to be decided. Without announcing an overall winner, all the hardwork that teams put into this competition goes to waste. We as dancers have one goal when we prepare for a bhangra competition, it is not just to win 3rd, 2nd, or match ups; the goals is to ultimately win that 1st place. If that first place is announced as a draw, there is virtually no purpose of holding the competition. So, we are kindly requesting either for a re-deliberation, regardless of the winner, or a winner based strictly off of the total points, in order to appropriately announce an overall winner for West Coast Bhangra 2017.

Following is a detailed record of how we have been handling the situation from our side:

We noticed that there may have been a mathematical error after the judges meeting. During the meeting, we asked the judges how much of a difference we "lost" by. One of the judge's stated they had us as the winners by +4 points and the other 2 judges stated that the difference we were behind Cal Bhangra on their score sheets was -1 and -0.5 points. The meeting was a timed 10 minutes. So in the rush of hearing the judges critiques we did not even have time to consider that, by the differences in scores, we actually had a higher average score than Cal Bhangra. We waited until the next day to ensure that what the judges verbally stated was correct. Once we received the score sheets, we had confirmation that we did, in fact, have an higher average than Cal bhangra.

The next step we took to confirm this was contacting every judge in order to verify that their individual scores on the score sheets were correct. All 3 judges confirmed that their individual scores and that there was a mistake in the average score. All 3 judges stated that Virse De Shokeen were in fact the winners of the match up and should have went on to deliberation.

After contacting the judges, we contacted the competition committee, who then contacted Cal Bhangra. Cal Bhangra was not on the same page as the committee, but they had decided to go with the truth. Gurprit Pasricha (Guppi) then called us back and stated, “The truth is that VDS, by points, were the winners of the match up and the winners of the title ‘Best of the West.’” I immediately asked Gurprit to confirm if that is the official decision and he quoted yet again, “Yes Preet that is the official decision and we will be writing an apology letter stating what we just told you.”

Later that same night I received yet another phone call from Gurprit with a completely different approach. The committee had decided that we will not be receiving the title as “Best of the West”. This certainly was unfair to us as a team. We went through so many emotions after not placing and then finding out committee had gotten the average wrong, then receiving a call stating it's official that we are the winners. We went from being extremely disappointed and discouraged to extremely shocked and happy to being completely blind-sided and yet again heartbroken. First the mistake takes place, and it happens, we are all human, but to tell us that we will be declared overall winners and then making a complete u-turn and telling us something completely different. Where is the committee’s professionalism?

The next day the committee posted their decision on BTF, without informing us of their final decision. We were completely caught off guard when they stated that they decided to make first place a draw. Which led us to this post; in which we humbly request, once again, that a 1st place winner be decided.

I am sure all of the teams understand the hard work, time and effort that is put into competing at an elite competition for that 1st place. Months of long practices and preparation, only to be crushed due to a simple calculation error from the committee. I have a young, non-collegiate team with dancers from all over Northern California. Our dancers put in hours of work, many of them driving for over 2 hours to each practice multiple times a week. Getting yelled at by their parents, because we don’t get out of practice until 4 o’clock in the morning and then coming back from the competition just to tell them that we were not even considered in deliberation for 1st place, because of a calculation error. This is extremely discouraging for our dancers and their families. We have been relentlessly working towards winning first place for over 2 years now. Now, not even getting a chance to be considered to win a deserving 1st place (according to scores), this is something that no team, new or experienced, should ever have to go through.

This mistake has not only affected us, but it has also affected Cal Bhangra and the rest of the match-up winners. We feel deeply for Cal bhangra, they should not have had to go through this roller coaster of emotions. However, the rightful and deserving winners need to be acknowledged.

The recording of VDS’s meeting with the judges is attached below:




***Personal note***

We are trying our best to respectfully handle this situation. We are not trying to single out any committee/team member. If anyone feels offended by anything that we have said in this post, we humbly apologize as that was not our intention.

Another important note I would like to include is a quote of one of my team members: “I am exhausted.” At 19, such a young age, after only two years of competing, this dancer is exhausted? Her exhaustion comes from the fact that, “For many, this is simply just one of many competitions, but for us, this was the first time we felt like we put out a first-place-worthy performance. This was the first time that on paper, we scored higher than any other competitor. Yet it was decided, without our knowledge, that we don't get a shot at winning the first place, and we still remain empty handed.”

After being in the circuit for 8+ years, I have never had just three words break my heart. But, what truly impacted me was the optimism that these dancers have. Though their mindsets have changed, and their emotions are still fluctuating, the love that they have for Bhangra has allowed them to keep their chins up and prepare for the next competition.

If you believe that VDS, or even any of the matchup winners for that matter, deserve a chance to win the first place that they initially entered this comp for, please say so. I welcome and encourage everyone to share their thoughts and opinions, including the teams involved in the competition from this past weekend.

Thank you.
 

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197
Dear Bhangra community,

Westcoast Bhangra would like to sincerely apologize to Virse de Shokeen (VDS), Cal Bhangra, and all competing teams for an error made in VDS’s and Cal Bhangra’s scoring averages. On the master score spreadsheet sent out to all teams by Union of Bhangra Judges (UBJ) on Sunday morning, Cal Bhangra’s scoring average was an 86 and VDS’s scoring average an 84. This resulted in Cal Bhangra winning the match-up title against VDS and then continuing on to win the “Best of the West” title through deliberation between the 4 match-up winners.

After VDS voiced their concerns about an incorrect average, we investigated further to find these claims to be true. We have since recalculated the averages . We indeed found that was an Excel error in the formula for the “Average” column for Cal Bhangra (an issue with the cell being used). The correct average for Cal Bhangra should have been an 83.2. Both Cal Bhangra and VDS have our utmost and sincerest apology for this mistake. To make up for our shortcomings, we have decided the following:

This was NOT a judging bias. UBJ was not involved in scoring calculations.

We want to emphasize that this was an honest mistake in the spreadsheet formula created by the West Coast committee and has nothing to do with the judges’ raw scores. Please do not blame the judges or Union of Bhangra Judges for this simple cell error. UBJ simply forwarded our spreadsheet to teams as they completed the UBJ Feedback Form. We are supportive of UBJ and are very thankful for how helpful they have been over the past few weeks. The judges themselves did a fantastic job at WBC and were very professional when it came to scoring each team according to the rubric. The WBC committee takes responsibility for our mistake and are incredibly sorry that this happened. We will take every precaution necessary to ensure that next year’s competition will not run into the same issue.

VDS will be declared the winner of the match-up between VDS & Cal.

The difference in averages between VDS and Cal Bhangra was 0.8 points. Because we had told the teams that match-up winners will be decided on a points based system, we must recognize VDS as the match-up winner.

Both VDS and Cal Bhangra will receive a match-up winner trophy, prize money, a refund for registration fees, and a waiver for future registration fees.

  1. As VDS is the match-up winner, we will award VDS with the prize money and a trophy.
  2. However, because we had originally announced Cal Bhangra as the winner of the match-up and awarded them a trophy, we have decided to give $500 to Cal Bhangra as well. We understand that this is at the fault of the committee and believe this is the fairest way to approach this situation. We will also waive registration fees for next year should they wish to compete at Westcoast Bhangra 2018. We hope that this resolves all issues going forward.
There will be no overall winner awarded this year. However, we feel it is important to report the following rankings of overall score:

First: VDS (84) Second: Cal (83.2)
​

Because VDS should have been recognized as the match-up winner at the competition, both VDS should have been in deliberation for overall winner with the other match-up winners. Because VDS was not considered for deliberation, it is impossible to state which of the 4 teams would have won overall winner had VDS been a part of deliberation. We do recognize that VDS did have the highest overall points at our competition, but because the overall winner was decided by deliberation, it is impossible for us to announce that VDS is this year’s winner. Furthermore, it is not possible to re-do a judges deliberation meeting after the competition is over. To accommodate the issues listed above, we have decided that we cannot fairly declare an overall winner for this year.

The $1000 prize money for first place will be split amongst the 4 matchup winners that should have been in deliberation:

Match-up winners (Bruin Bhangra, Bulldog Bhangra, Norcal Naujawan, Virse de Shokeen) will each receive an additional $250 in prize money on top of the $500 they will be receiving for winning in their match-ups.

We would also like to acknowledge that the incorrect average came to our attention yesterday. We have been working towards an appropriate solution since then. While we understand that Bhangra is a competitive art and that emotions can run high, we hope that any additional concerns are brought to us directly and hope we can all be respectful to each other going forward. We hope that these action steps demonstrate how much the West Coast Bhangra committee cares about all parties involved with our competition, as well as the betterment of the Bhangra community.

Thank you to the judges for being professional and forgiving about this. Thank you to UBJ for helping us so much over the past few weeks. Thank you to teams for bringing such incredible passion to the stage. I hope all of you, especially the teams, are able to forgive us for this error and thoroughly enjoyed the weekend at West Coast Bhangra 2017.


Our sincerest apologies and love for the Bhangra community,
Westcoast Bhangra Committee
This is the post from the committee we are referring to.

Thank you.
 

mrchicity

Active Member
Messages
329
I have several thoughts about this, and I'm also going to play devil's advocate here for a bit. I totally get the frustration that comes from working so hard on a routine, putting countless hours into training and set creation, just to receive less than adequate respect or recognition, especially when you've been in this game for so long and have an actual understanding about what is good and bad in this circuit. I can also see the other side too though; having been a judge for a few competitions, this kind of scenario is a nightmare. The judges seem to have done their jobs, and having things messed up just because of a calculation error is completely messed up.

1. I don't know if asking for a definitive placing at this point is completely fair. On any given competition night, judges see all of these teams and have only a set amount of time to deliberate and come to a conclusion about who the winners are. Ideally, anyone would want those placings to hold up afterwards, when teams release their videos and everyone can take the time to watch them over and over again and truly dissect every little part, but sometimes they don't. At this point, you can never replicate those moments after the competition and the possible deliberation that could have happened if things had been done properly.
A somewhat similar situation happened at Elite 8 2015, when First Class Bhangra's mix dropped out early on in their set. They went on to finish the routine, but at that point was it fair to judge them against everyone whose mixes were played properly? And given the insane crowd response they got because their mix cut out and they still finished the routine, was it fair to judge everyone else against them because they could never replicate a similar situation? We actually discussed amongst the team captains whether the placings should be thrown out because an impossible judging situation had been created. The judges did eventually pick a winner, and I'm very happy that my team won that competition, but I don't think that situation was fair for any team there that night, which is something that can be said for this competition as well.

2. How can a competition decide to just add 10 points to a judge's score sheets just because he has a lower baseline than the others? That's the stupidest thing I've heard of, did they not know how to normalize scores?? Judges will inherently have different methods of creating scores, but team rankings should be based on their relative scores. I know Mariam and Gopi know how to use an Excel spreadsheet, and we did this score normalization at Bhangra in the Burgh in the past, I don't understand how that's not a common thing at competitions. Maybe the committee created this spreadsheet to tally scores and pick a winner, and if so they opened themselves up in so many ways to making errors by utilizing this method to make scores more even.

3. How do you mess up an average calculation in Excel??? It's the most basic function of an excel spreadsheet, there's no crazy formula to type in. Both judges and committees should be extremely careful about how they go about tallying scores and determining winners precisely for that point that teams spend so much time in preparing and training for a competition, I don't know how you can't see at first glance that the average of 86, 83.5, and 80 is not 86.
 

Bajwa99

"Too Many Rookies Not Enough Gabroos"
Messages
129
#RanglaBhangraMeraKalaHogeya

There's nothing more to be said, you guys won first place without a doubt and you should be recognized for your first place performance. Can't wait to see the video! Wish you guys all the best for future comps!
 

BhangraSUCKS

Active Member
Messages
131
3. How do you mess up an average calculation in Excel??? It's the most basic function of an excel spreadsheet, there's no crazy formula to type in. Both judges and committees should be extremely careful about how they go about tallying scores and determining winners precisely for that point that teams spend so much time in preparing and training for a competition, I don't know how you can't see at first glance that the average of 86, 83.5, and 80 is not 86.
Math is difficult yaar, especially in our area where methane from cow poti corrupts thinking processing. My question though is why didnt someone use calculator to verify the average for scores? They are not hard to come by, and especially when your running competition, like business, you need to make sure your accurate. Any stupid mistake like this, and you can forget about having clients in future. Reputation means everything in USA, this hurts your reputation west coast program
 
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