What do YOU think of taxes?

[sulmoney]

all im saying is that only a james joyce can write ulysses...

 

[[Sher] Imran]

Just read this thread, thought it was interesting. Ive been working in tax for the last 4 years. I started off doing individual income taxes @ HR Block in South Central LA, and am now doing corporate tax which is literally a 24 hour-a-day butt pounding. I wish I could insert a ROFL-copter for Parul's comments about obesity, but I'm way to lazy to open a new tab and google the image. The poorest of the poor in LA would line up outside our office at HR Block towards the end of January, when the W-2s would come out. They needed their refunds. They wanted that cash fast, whether it was for bills, emergencies, or whatever. They were willing to go on our loan program, just so they could have it the same day and not have to wait for another 3 days. Sure, some of us will spend that refund on a TV, vacation, or whatever, but Parul not everyone is as well off as you may think.

Taxes are great because they contribute (partially) towards bettering our infrastructures or what not, but there is the other side where massive amounts are being used to fund wars and operations that a good amount of us don't even agree to. Now with the massive bailouts, its not mystery that we as taxpayers will be footing the bill. I think the flat tax is the best way to go, where you tax everyone at a set percentage (except people below the poverty line). This would eliminate loopholes/crazy deductions that the wealthier class has been known to exploit, and ultimately could result in an increase in tax revenue. Hell if I was in a 38% bracket, I'd be more inclined to wiggle my out of it- but if I was being taxed at a flat 19% or something, hell I'd take that and wouldn't complain. I've personally consulted many wealthy clients on how to legally avoid paying taxes- one guy made over $2 mil and I made it look like he earned $60k and it was completely legal. Yes, that was probably shameless of me, but I bring it up to show you that there are too many easy loopholes when a 20 year old kid (at the time) can slide out of paying tax on $2 mil. A flat tax creates less incentive to cheat, and could create more incentive for outside investors.

Now if you wanna talk about a sham of a tax, lets talk sales tax. I hate that thing. Technically we shouldn't even be paying it, which is what pisses me off to no end. Companies are taxed on their purchases, and instead of paying it, they pass it on to us, the consumers. We are paying for the company's sales taxes. What a bust.

For any of you that are going to start working or just started, I highly highly recommend that you fill in ZERO on your W-4. You can still change it if you have already submitted it. The company will take more out of your paycheck, but you'll be sitting on a very sexy refund come April 15.

 

[Saleem]

For any of you that are going to start working or just started, I highly highly recommend that you fill in ZERO on your W-4. You can still change it if you have already submitted it. The company will take more out of your paycheck, but you'll be sitting on a very sexy refund come April 15.

I don't get why people would want less money in their pocket (that is, their wages garnished), just to have it given to them a year later? Take the small responsibility of an automated monthly transfer to your savings account, and you'll have that money plus interest, and much sooner. Why give the gov't your money, interest-free??? If people cannot put aside $50 a month, then they have too little self control (If you tell me that some people cannot afford to put aside $50, then that's another reason they shouldnt over-pay taxes month to month)

 

[[Sher] Imran]

We are without a doubt a consumption-first society. And like you said, the people that can't leave their savings account alone have too little self control- so they can force this savings upon themselves. I'm sure we all know/have known people that blow through their paychecks before they have a chance to do anything useful with it. The one reason why I have always recommended withholding the maximum amount is because that money is tax free, since government is holding onto it, like you said Saleem. And that is exactly what I have told dual-income families to do. If the wife makes 60k and the husband makes 60k, I've told them to calculate what their expenses will be for the year (ballpark). Lets say total expenses came out to 65k. I tell the husband to take the other 55k of his paycheck and put that on the W-4 form as an "additional amount to pay towards tax". So, the government will take his 55k for the year, and his salary is technically 5k. That 55k comes back to him on April 15, untouched basically. Executives that have working spouses have been known to do the same. They'll take a $1 paycheck for the whole year. thats because the other $ 10 million is being held by govt, interest free yes, but tax free as well.

 

[pluthra]

We are without a doubt a consumption-first society. And like you said, the people that can't leave their savings account alone have too little self control- so they can force this savings upon themselves. I'm sure we all know/have known people that blow through their paychecks before they have a chance to do anything useful with it. The one reason why I have always recommended withholding the maximum amount is because that money is tax free, since government is holding onto it, like you said Saleem. And that is exactly what I have told dual-income families to do. If the wife makes 60k and the husband makes 60k, I've told them to calculate what their expenses will be for the year (ballpark). Lets say total expenses came out to 65k. I tell the husband to take the other 55k of his paycheck and put that on the W-4 form as an "additional amount to pay towards tax". So, the government will take his 55k for the year, and his salary is technically 5k. That 55k comes back to him on April 15, untouched basically. Executives that have working spouses have been known to do the same. They'll take a $1 paycheck for the whole year. thats because the other $ 10 million is being held by govt, interest free yes, but tax free as well.

-wait so the guy incurs all expenses in his paycheck so he isn't taxed? and they can do that?

-sulmon uve crushedd all my hopes of ever writing a book

but another thought wat if there was no money but instead a system of a card-where all money was put onto this card and basically one used that to make all purchases, and all pay would be directly deposited-this eliminates all money-would it work??? one of my professors have talked about how in one of the places she worked or her students has (i think mexico) they just give employees a card loaded with their pay on it instead of cash-b/c it is safer than giving out money (b/c they used to walk around w/a cart of money-how smart i know) but wat if money didnt exist it was all just a card/technology?

 

[Saleem]

Parul I dont think that society is ready for a paper/coin-free system yet. You'll find that credit card companies charge X % of the bill as a transaction fee- it would be an addiitonal sales tax billed as a 'convenience fee'. Secondly, you'd need an ad-hoc way to exchange money between individuals. How do I loan $10 to my friend? Do we have to find a 3rd party (a machine?) Certainly the cards can't communicate. Lastly, you'd still have a currency of "dollars" or "euros" or "ameros" or whatever, it would just be paperless. In which case you have to weigh the advantages/disadvantages of that paperless commerce. TBH, with America barely able to transition to no-analog TV in 2009, I don't see paperless currency until 2025 widespread (voluntary) use for transactions (not individual-to-individual), 2045 as completely adopted.

 

[pluthra]

but it wouldnt be like a credit card; instead it'd be like ur debit card-and i guess they'd just charge a service fee for having an account or something; saleem u make all my possibilities just crash!!!! who cares about loanin ur friend $10 tell em to go find somewhere to get money; if we had such a system we wouldn't have to worry about stupid issues that the US likes to bring up....like should we make a dollar coin??? or worry about how long our paper money will last, and we can kill less trees

also wats "no-analong tv?"

 

[[Sher] Imran]

A lot of people (including myself) have their paychecks direct deposited to their checking accounts, so in a sense it is preloaded. We have this system in place essentially, although there are gaps. I have my BofA card, I electronically pay all bills, I can transfer money to my siblings if they need some cash, and I can make a purchase virtually anywhere- online or in person at a store- and never have to withdraw a dollar. Of course things like paying rent/mortgage would be a little more difficult, and therein lies one of the "gaps". There is the ever-growing issue of identity theft, and having the entire population on an electronic cash system, the system has to be airtight and have no loopholes. People already do have problems with their credit cards and bank cards, as they get stolen, someone hacks in, etc. Would it be wise to let the banks run their own client base like they currently do? Or should the government take it under its wing? If so, how much in taxpayers' money would be involved? What if the system crashes?

Also, "making it rain" electronically is so uncool compared to having stacks of cash falling from the sky.

 

[Saleem]

also wats "no-analong tv?"

Basically, TVs from before like 1970 won't work without a little box. And even then, people will complain. Really, we need to move forward and out of the analog (taht's pre-digital) era. http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html#faq1

I make it rain $25 Visa giftcards. Don't poke an eye out.