.

[Mans]

as far as the plastic saaps go, I've never used one, so i wouldnt know but do they make as much noise and impact as talli wood ones ?

They might even be louder
Simran and Arjun at WBBC 2013

 

[hardeep_singh]

as far as the plastic saaps go, I've never used one, so i wouldnt know but do they make as much noise and impact as talli wood ones ?

they sound pretty similar and loudness is dependent on how hard you play em

Shan e Punjab at andys and daljits reception 2013
Simran and Arjun at WBBC 2013

lol mans beat me to it

 

[singhk1]

Some ladies wear chadre because when bhangra first started, that was the main attire and the tradition has followed through. It is all about personal preference, but personally I feel like salwar kameez is more appropriate for women bhangra dancers.

Agreed Chadra is way too open for a female dancer to wear in my opinion

 

[Romy]

Some ladies wear chadre because when bhangra first started, that was the main attire and the tradition has followed through. It is all about personal preference, but personally I feel like salwar kameez is more appropriate for women bhangra dancers.

Agreed Chadra is way too open for a female dancer to wear in my opinion

Really? Is seeing a male dancer's bare hairy legs and/or shorts (sometimes even boxers) more appealing than seeing a female dancer in a chadra when she wears leggings underneath?

 

[J-Skeet]

Some ladies wear chadre because when bhangra first started, that was the main attire and the tradition has followed through. It is all about personal preference, but personally I feel like salwar kameez is more appropriate for women bhangra dancers.

Agreed Chadra is way too open for a female dancer to wear in my opinion

Really? Is seeing a male dancer's bare hairy legs and/or shorts (sometimes even boxers) more appealing than seeing a female dancer in a chadra when she wears leggings underneath?

Yes

 

[singhta27]

Some ladies wear chadre because when bhangra first started, that was the main attire and the tradition has followed through. It is all about personal preference, but personally I feel like salwar kameez is more appropriate for women bhangra dancers.

Agreed Chadra is way too open for a female dancer to wear in my opinion

Really? Is seeing a male dancer's bare hairy legs and/or shorts (sometimes even boxers) more appealing than seeing a female dancer in a chadra when she wears leggings underneath?

I agree with Romy, there's not difference and plus nothing should be showing (other then ankles) in a properly tied chadra. But everyones got their own preferences

 

[Gabbah Shareef Bhalwan]

Chaadra was old style dress of Punjabans.

 

[rpal]

Any body here to teach me the bhangra with kundas.

 

[NewEnglandBhangraClub]

[SIZE=small]As an all female team, we choose to wear chaadars because (we hope) it eliminates any bias in judging. Unlike males, females are always judged on how high their legs are or how low their bases are. As a 5’10 female dancer, I have heard my fair share of critique for my base not being low enough. But put me next to a 5’10 male, my base is just as low as theirs, so why the discrepancy? Understood its personal preference, but in a predominately male dance, by wearing a chaadar with a chunni, a female is able to recreate a male’s style of dance without sacrificing looking like a female.
[/SIZE]
[/size][SIZE=small]Also, male teams love to do the old gimmick of throwing a chunni over their heads and pretending to be girls. The pagh gimmick has been thought about, but knowing the criticism we would receive for being ‘disrespectful’ has shied us away. Why is it that chunnis are allowed to be thrown around on stage and it’s clapped at, but the mere thought of doing the same to a pagh is frowned upon? Are they both not symbols of respect and religion? Therefore, by wearing chaadars we are able to break down that barrier between male and female dancers, but at the same time keep our female identity through the chunni.[/SIZE]

 

[Gabbah Shareef Bhalwan]

NewEnglandBhangra,


I respect that you have a thought-out rationale.


But while I don't deny there is Punjabi clothing gendered as masculine and feminine, chaadar/lungi need not be part of that "issue" of presentation, because:


1) Both men and women of Punjabi historically wore it. Folkloric dance presentations are a burlesque of the past, rather than a reflection of the present dress of Punjab.


"Period" attire for women - in Punjabi visual art, drama, etc. - includes women in lungi. What "period"? Well, I can't say for sure. 18th and 19th centuries. The "classic" Punjab at least as it is imagined, for example in depictions of Hir-Ranjha story.


2) The precedent is there, in Punjab, in having women present folkloric dance in lungi. Precedent may not be there in "bhangra" much because presentations of "bhangra" by women have been few and very recent. But if the presentation is of women doing jhummar, and oftentimes sammi, then women wear lungi. (Other times women present in ghaggara / skirt because that is interpreted as "tribal" dress for a "tribal" dance.)


Furthermore, when stage bhangra was being codified in the media like films, women engaging in those scenes with the male dancers were often dressed in lungi. In short, lungi is viewed as an old-fashioned Punjabi ladies' garment—and when one is performing folkloric dance, they are often supposed to be in old-fashioned dress.


I believe (though I've not looked in closely enough to prove) that some incidents of women presenting their bhangra in North America wearing lungi come from the practice/sensibility in Punjab, that influenced given performances. (Perhaps, for example, in Vancouver.) In other words, there have been instances of women presenting bhangra in lungi, in North America, with the idea in mind that it was an appropriate/normal "feminine" thing to wear—not because they were making a concession to the "masculine" aspects of the dance, etc.


Some will be bothered by my seeming conflation of "lungi" and "chaadra." It doesn't really bother me because: 1) I believe they are essentially the same thing—though I'm open to learning whether this is really a mistaken way of thinking; and 2) I suspect that some of the distinctions made between "chaadara" and "lungi" nowadays are new-ish constructs that misconstrue the original meaning of the terms. Some of the supposed distinctions I've observed people make in terms of material, color, and region/culture (Punjabi vs. non-Punjabi) do not ring true to me, at least not at present. Essentially we are talking about a cloth tied around the waist to cover the lower body. Such a cloth - whether nowadays given emphases of masculinity or femininity through designs, associations, etc - was previously worn by women and men.

 

[voxanimus]

[SIZE=small]As an all female team, we choose to wear chaadars because (we hope) it eliminates any bias in judging. Unlike males, females are always judged on how high their legs are or how low their bases are. As a 5’10 female dancer, I have heard my fair share of critique for my base not being low enough. But put me next to a 5’10 male, my base is just as low as theirs, so why the discrepancy? Understood its personal preference, but in a predominately male dance, by wearing a chaadar with a chunni, a female is able to recreate a male’s style of dance without sacrificing looking like a female.
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Also, male teams love to do the old gimmick of throwing a chunni over their heads and pretending to be girls. The pagh gimmick has been thought about, but knowing the criticism we would receive for being ‘disrespectful’ has shied us away. Why is it that chunnis are allowed to be thrown around on stage and it’s clapped at, but the mere thought of doing the same to a pagh is frowned upon? Are they both not symbols of respect and religion? Therefore, by wearing chaadars we are able to break down that barrier between male and female dancers, but at the same time keep our female identity through the chunni.[/SIZE]

I didn't know that females in bhangra were judged with a bias. I feel that this may be a flaw in judging, and could be handled by advocating change in the judging facet. Whether women are "allowed" to wear chadran or not is a separate topic from this imo. Whenever I watched females in bhangra, I personally looked at them with the same standards that I look at male dancers.

I was curious which religion is the chunni an article of?

in hinduism the chunni is a symbol of female modesty and chastity. sort of. definitely not as strongly symbolic as the hijab or anything but it does have a theological/cultural significance.

 

[J-Skeet]

[SIZE=small]As an all female team, we choose to wear chaadars because (we hope) it eliminates any bias in judging. Unlike males, females are always judged on how high their legs are or how low their bases are. As a 5’10 female dancer, I have heard my fair share of critique for my base not being low enough. But put me next to a 5’10 male, my base is just as low as theirs, so why the discrepancy? Understood its personal preference, but in a predominately male dance, by wearing a chaadar with a chunni, a female is able to recreate a male’s style of dance without sacrificing looking like a female.
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Also, male teams love to do the old gimmick of throwing a chunni over their heads and pretending to be girls. The pagh gimmick has been thought about, but knowing the criticism we would receive for being ‘disrespectful’ has shied us away. Why is it that chunnis are allowed to be thrown around on stage and it’s clapped at, but the mere thought of doing the same to a pagh is frowned upon? Are they both not symbols of respect and religion? Therefore, by wearing chaadars we are able to break down that barrier between male and female dancers, but at the same time keep our female identity through the chunni.[/SIZE]

I didn't know that females in bhangra were judged with a bias. I feel that this may be a flaw in judging, and could be handled by advocating change in the judging facet. Whether women are "allowed" to wear chadran or not is a separate topic from this imo. Whenever I watched females in bhangra, I personally looked at them with the same standards that I look at male dancers.

I was curious which religion is the chunni an article of?

in hinduism the chunni is a symbol of female modesty and chastity. sort of. definitely not as strongly symbolic as the hijab or anything but it does have a theological/cultural significance.

tbh I rarely see women outside of Punjabi cultures, and maybe gujus, wear chunnis. There are hindus in Punjab, but they don't wear chunnis aside from events and rituals.(which makes it more of a cultural entity and not a religious article) I would say it's more of an article of Sikhi. Just like man are expected to cover their heads with a turban women are expected to cover their head as well. This role is usually fulfilled by a chunni, but it can be done with other forms of headwears as well.

 

[J-Skeet]

NewEnglandBhangra,


Some will be bothered by my seeming conflation of "lungi" and "chaadra." It doesn't really bother me because: 1) I believe they are essentially the same thing—though I'm open to learning whether this is really a mistaken way of thinking; and 2) I suspect that some of the distinctions made between "chaadara" and "lungi" nowadays are new-ish constructs that misconstrue the original meaning of the terms. Some of the supposed distinctions I've observed people make in terms of material, color, and region/culture (Punjabi vs. non-Punjabi) do not ring true to me, at least not at present. Essentially we are talking about a cloth tied around the waist to cover the lower body. Such a cloth - whether nowadays given emphases of masculinity or femininity through designs, associations, etc - was previously worn by women and men.

From what I've been told by my Nani, the lungi and chaadra does in fact differ not only through material but social status and formality. From what I've been told most people in Punjab (about a 100 yrs ago) wore lungis etc and this was seen as a 'backwards' practice. About a 100 years ago Sants in Sikhi were converting hindus to Sikhi and they had them change their way of dress as well (along with other prac as well). Anyway the point is the lungi was seen as a backwards dress and was seen as a very informal way of dress. The chaadra was worn by the 'richer' folk/ it was seen as a formal way of dress. To help promote equality Sants had people change their way of dress. That's one explanation, but I also know for sure that culturally a lungi is looked down upon by Punjabis.

 

[Gabbah Shareef Bhalwan]

NewEnglandBhangra,

Some will be bothered by my seeming conflation of "lungi" and "chaadra." It doesn't really bother me because: 1) I believe they are essentially the same thing—though I'm open to learning whether this is really a mistaken way of thinking; and 2) I suspect that some of the distinctions made between "chaadara" and "lungi" nowadays are new-ish constructs that misconstrue the original meaning of the terms. Some of the supposed distinctions I've observed people make in terms of material, color, and region/culture (Punjabi vs. non-Punjabi) do not ring true to me, at least not at present. Essentially we are talking about a cloth tied around the waist to cover the lower body. Such a cloth - whether nowadays given emphases of masculinity or femininity through designs, associations, etc - was previously worn by women and men.

From what I've been told by my Nani, the lungi and chaadra does in fact differ not only through material but social status and formality. From what I've been told most people in Punjab (about a 100 yrs ago) wore lungis etc and this was seen as a 'backwards' practice. About a 100 years ago Sants in Sikhi were converting hindus to Sikhi and they had them change their way of dress as well (along with other prac as well). Anyway the point is the lungi was seen as a backwards dress and was seen as a very informal way of dress. The chaadra was worn by the 'richer' folk/ it was seen as a formal way of dress. To help promote equality Sants had people change their way of dress. That's one explanation, but I also know for sure that culturally a lungi is looked down upon by Punjabis.

Hi,


I completely respect the fact that you make a distinction.


However:


1) It's not clear to me just what that distinction is that you make;
2) The explanation sounds like folklore. Why would people who were trying to be sophisticated shun one kind of sarong-like thing for another sarong-like thing? Why not wear trousers/salwaar to be urban/sophisticated? It also sounds suspicious to frame it in terms of Sikhi when the larger communities were Hindu and Muslim.


100 years ago (well, in the 19th century), "lungi" meant a type of cloth, not a type of garment. You could wear lungi on your head if you wanted. "Chaadra" (i.e. besides meaning "sheet") meant a garment that Punjabis used to cover the top part of body - instead of (or over) a shirt.


One term for the lower body wrap garment was "manjhli" or "manjhla." Another was "tahmat/tehmat." (I don't know if there is a proper distinction between "manjhla" and "tahmat".) I am calling the same "chaadar / lungi" because those seem to be the contemporary terms that have evolved for this.


Certainly there were little regional, communal variations (as in color), and perhaps some gender ones as well. But I don't think stagi bhangra, with it's imagination of a generic Punjabi "past," meaningfully accommodates the distinctions between a Muslim manjhla versus a Sikh manjhla or a Northwestern manjhla versus a Southwestern one. It's more generic.


My claim is that because both men and women, at east in some areas, wore manjhla, then there is no call to say women are cross-dressing (or whatever) when they wear it in the bhangra presentation context. Now, if women wore manjhla in a significantly different way than men, then that might be worth investigating and clarifying. Women can therefore wear manjhla tied however women wore it (if one's desire is to be gender appropriate) and still reap the performance benefits claimed by NewEnglandBhangra.