An Old Head's Proclamation

[Jeeti]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j61P4f-cZA

As a respected member of this forum,

What happened to this?

What happened to creativity?

We all love traditonal bhangra...but come on....what happened to the creativity that was NORTH AMERICAN BHANGRA....the creativity is gone..everyones trying to be the most traditional (or appear to be the most traditional)...your ability to stay folk means nothing AND does nothing to our future generations ...and your insistence on forming a folk culture..WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO AN EVEN YOUNGER GENERATION? The youth of the punjabi" (let me generalize)..of north america....seems to be even more detached with this folk movement than anyone else...KJ brought people into this culture that was bhangra ( I dare many of you folk heads now to question that)...

what happened to entertaining the crowd? Call me old school...but for those of you that have seen KJ perform..they had the most powerful crowd pleasing factor that any team has ever known? What happened? Why are we more concerned with what our phumania segment looked like than with what a little 10 year old kid that may or may not enjoy punjabi music or bhangra be concerned with? It may be the way comps are judged..but...

The problem is that we somehow lost sight of the fact that this dance is a constantly changing and evolving dance form, and as much as we should attempt to preserve it as much we can... it is only natural that we somehow integrate our own life's trials and tribulations into the art form...we can run away from the generation gap between us..but the fact of the matter still remains the same...from KJ's truck to Soormay's wipe out,,,to TRB's geico (in no way is that a team pump)...we must make more of an effort to reach out to the future....unless you are so lucky enough to be in a situation where..bolis and the proper way to do bhangra is explained (holler Canada).. we need teams willing to bridge the generation gap..not to pump Shaan, but the small amount of time we spent together, i learned enuff to last a life time)...just like KJ did for us...they made it look amazing, but still preserved the culture as best they could...we are so busy preserving the culture.... that we have lost any kind of appeal for the younger generation...

I may be speaking to a very small population that love bhangra...but there are many honestly completely lost as to why the boliya'n are done the wayy in which they are done...

MY BOTTOM LINE...is to please...I beg of you..as someone that has beeen involved in this business for quite some time....is to not lose sight of why you are on stage...it is not to put up the more folk performance than the next team, but rather to INFORM...and ensure that bhangra is done correctly yet please leave room for creativity....the trend that I seen goin right now...and the performances I see lately have simply been exercises in homogeneity...sorry...if i offended, but even watching various bhangra teams in india has brought more variation than what seems to be coming in this northa american season

Your Local Friendly "Folk You" Jeeti.


Moderator's Note: I fixed the spelling. It irked me

 

[Shahrukh]

Re: An Old Head's Prcolamation

i just read all of that
and i will not be able to respond with a long essay

but i understand some of your points.

but traditional bhangra is sick and is more exciting to me then any of that kj stuff ever was

they might have got us all into the scene

but its not like we are at this point where everyones just tryna be traditional for the sake of bein folk
its because we love doing bhangra, properly the way its supposed to be done, and those of us who do perform bhangra this way LOVE IT

and if your thinkn that bhangra is gonna fade out cuz of all the folkness...... think again

nachdi jawani toddlers
shan e juniors
pcac juniors

and so on

acadamies have been established for this exact reason

another example is my lil bro. hes 12. and loves traditional bhangra. and wouldnt ever consider doing pataka, or jugni in some "modern way" hes always talkn about how hes gonna make his university team sickkk and folk.....hes 12....... 2012 hes lookn to keep it folk in 2012

its not gonna be hard for future generations

theres tons of creativity out there

sgpd/nachdi jawani/nsj/nachde gabru/b2b/ waris/ the list goes on and on and on

i dont think you need to worry bro

 

[HarmanSingh]

Re: An Old Head's Prcolamation

Ya man, it really isnt that serious. Kids will love bhangra regardless, and the quality of dancing is so much better now. Look at that video of "little stars" posted and teams like NJ Toddlers and Shan-E Juniors. You used to have teams acting like cheerleading squads, with fake dharis, fake turlas, stunts which are absolutely disgusting and no idea of what the songs were about.

Plus, what I find HILARIOUS is that just about everyone on this forum told me teams aren't about the "culture" but about just having fun and meeting new people when I said teams should check themselves and quit acting so belligerent and ignorant at competitions. Well, then why does this matter? Just do whatever you want. Teams dont care about culture, and really never have.

 

[Havish]

Re: An Old Head's Prcolamation

I wouldn't say there isn't creatively out there, I would say its just has changed over time how its expressed. Back in the day, it was all about Stunts and coming up with the best 8-16 combo's you could. Which was great, but nowadays its about taking traditional bhangra and making it entertaining. It's about taking phummian and making it the best you can. Teams are adding their creatively through the different aspects of bhangra. Taking each aspect and trying to make it their own.

What I believe most teams should be trying to achieve is to be able to perform traditional bhangra while keeping it entertaining for the audience, an audience who has no idea what traditional bhangra is.

 

[NSC]

Re: An Old Head's Prcolamation

Okay, so I don't have time to write a huge response to this right now, but I have been meaning to comment on themes similar to those presented in Jeeti's post.

I have been heavily involved in competitive bhangra since 2002, and have witnessed and participated in the transition of focus from modern to traditional bhangra. First, I just want to say that there is nothing better than a strong, graceful, energetic, clean display of live, traditional bhangra....that is as good as it gets for me. However, bhangra in its current state in NA is both exciting and disappointing. It is exciting because the performances have stronger elements of traditionality than in the past. On the other hand, most performances today, specifically by all-guys teams, are VERY uniform........in song selection, moves etc. Back in the day, the sequences of moves that teams would present would be so different relative to one another, and that made competitions more fun to watch. Shah Rukh, you say don't worry we have all these creative teams etc. BUT the thing is that whenever a squad brings a new creative spin to a routine, everyone and their mother jacks it. Everytime I see a khunda swing or jugni lean, I cringe.

And its not even just the little things that are being played out....teams simply following trends is ridiculous. Right now the current trend is fast bhangra.....but the faster teams dance, the more they lose out on the elements of bhangra that I find incredibly appealing and essential, ie GRACE. Execution of moves and overall cleaniness in current bhangra is not great by any means. Everyone is focusing on moving as much as possible, and most of the teams are doing the same boring old moves, just moving in different ways. Dancers are incredibly sloppy in execution. Now don't come at me with the "bhangra will have the same moves..we are trying to be proper blah blah blah". There are ways to distinguish your choreography and that my fellow BTFers is a huge difference between bhangra in 2008 and bhangra in 2004. I would love to see more teams take risks, and others NOT FOLLOW those teams and take their OWN RISKS.

I have more to say, but I am studying my chittar off. Hope to see a good discussion follow.

 

[Shahrukh]

how many risks can a team take when theyr tryna be traditional?

it isnt like the past

where teams made random movements

are you saying yuou want more team to involve more random movements in their sets?
or more senseless stunts?

i dont understand what your trying to say bro

 

[AmitB]

no offense or anything but im not sure i see the problem

I know plenty of kids now who really want to learn more about traditional bhangra, and if everyone had stuck to completly modern bhangra, what would we be able to tell them? entertainment is in the eye of the beholder, there is no blanket statement that the younger gen will or wont like something. I completly agree with Havish...there is still room for creativity, in making a traditional routine that is still very entertaining to both a knowledgeable and less experienced crowd.

 

[NSC]

how many risks can a team take when theyr tryna be traditional?

it isnt like the past

where teams made random movements

are you saying yuou want more team to involve more random movements in their sets?
or more senseless stunts?

i dont understand what your trying to say bro

"Senseless stunts"......no. "Random movements"......no. In my post, I asserted that I prefer watching AND performing traditional bhangra. And yes, teams CAN take risks. There are teams who take risks and try to carve out their own style. There is a reason that people on this board have stated recently that they don't even watch full videos at this point and just fast forward through.

To address the creativity issue further.....in the past year, after a certain punjab team did these new jhummar moves that nobody had seen before, everyone here started doing them. That team in Punjab innovated...and all of the traditional heads here still call that traditional. Why can't we do more of the same? I'm not saying make up random movements.....but on more of a widespread scale, I am encouraging teams to stay within the confines of traditionality, while INNOVATING. This is a challenge for NA bhangra, but it is doable. We have already seen India teams jack KJ's stuff....they can be influenced by us as well.

Also, my initial post addressed other problems with bhangra in its current state......the fast trend....following trends, sloppiness, execution, lack of grace etc.

 

[Shahrukh]

oh
got ya


and i guess i understand that teams are looking sloppy
and some are just going wayy to fast

however that will get better with time
and with how well teams prepare before they go on stage

 

[Waleed]

Before I say anything else, Shahrukh, reading your posts give me a mild heart attack every time. Not due to the content but your bullet point style posts. If you can do something about that, it would be great if not.. thats cool, I'll man up and deal with it.

Jeeti, this is a great post and you have a valid point. I was with a couple of non-bhangra friends at the last Boston Bhangra and I was sure that Shan-E-Punjab would place first. Bhangra wise, their routine was the most superior, however they tied with MIT (for 3rd). My friends were surprised that Shan-E-Punjab even placed, to them it was an "ok team" and weren't "fun to watch". I tried to explain to them how Shan-E did all the segments, they had such grace and their execution was clean, etc. To echo AmitB's words "entertainment is in the eye of the beholder".

For the sake of this discussion, let me use the analogy of hip hop. The roots of hip hop lie in African American culture, it all started in Bronx, where young black men used to rap about their struggles. Fast forward to today, 50 cent, Lil Wayne, Young Buck... pretty much "I get money, dont f*ck with me, you're a b*tch... did I tell you I get money?". Is this what hip hop really is? Does this music qualify as hip hop? Old school artists dismiss the new music as trash or a perverted form of hip hop. And what's really interesting is that some newer artists like Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Common have embraced the original roots of hip hop and guess what, the people LOVE it. There is more depth to Mos Def's lyrics versus Kanye West (I can't stand his arrogant ass btw). There is something very pure and inspirational about the traditional form of any art.

Bhangra has been the victim of the same phenomenon. The traditional form of bhangra never caught on, it was the more flashy, entertaining, stunt-driven style of bhangra that the audience really liked. We had a wave of KJ, VIBE, TRB style teams but now there is a movement to go back to the roots. Shahrukh's generation has entered the bhangra realm at a very good point, they will learn a much better and purer form of bhangra as opposed to myself and the old kats. The audience is also slowly beginning to admire the North American style tradional bhangra, I would consider SGPD,VCU as good examples within this category. Any non-bhangra head can watch these teams and really enjoy their performances.

Like Havish said, making a traditional routine entertaining (without gimmicks and stunts) is very possible - it is just a process that the whole bhangra scene is growing through. Everyone is trying to find a healty compromise between traditionality and entertainment factor. NSC is right though, there is way too much copying going on within the bhangra circuit. Also, I've seen a lot of straight up (move to move) copying from traditional teams. I would use India teams as an inspiration to generate variations of traditional moves, anything more is copying.

Wow, this post got long.

 

[Velli]

To add onto Waleeds post,

Whenever there is a competition, I'll take my parents and they will sit through performances by Empire, Jawani, PDDS, Heeray, etc. No matter how graceful a team like Heeray is or their excution or how well their moves work compared to the song, my parents still walk out of the venue going WOW Empire was so great, did u see their stunts or how the girls switched shikke with the guys. It's slightly disheartening thinking that my parents and the general public find that more enjoyable than actual bhangra.

It's not that traditional bhangra cant be entertaining, think of UBC girlz, prime example of execution and grace with equal importance on traditionality with their own unique twist. I would put SGPD up there as well, however I believe they lack grace at times and wish they were more original, but they bring creativity to the bhangra scene like never before.

Also if we are dissapointed in the direction bhangra is heading, we have no one to blame but ourselves. NJ winning at bhangra idols with their lean and fast boli pani segment gets endless praise, and teams look at that and try to be something that they arent, only to get that same kind of praise. I hate to name teams but I remember when Duniya co-ed went live for a year, it just didnt work but they wanted to follow the traditional trend.

I believe the status of bhangra today has nothing to do with the effects of traditional movements on a routine. There are teams like UCI, NBA, NYU, TEXAS, SFU ELITE, that havent changed their styles and are still "old skool" bhangra and still arent placing or getting the "love" from the audiences or BTF. At the end of the day what we all are looking for is something different, something COMPLETE, excitement, excution. These traits do not only apply to one style of bhangra, it's unison throughout the art form of bhangra.

However, I must admit, what my parents or the general public think about traditional bhangra does not effect me because watching a team hit a proper jugni or jhummer brings a smile to my face compared to sporadic movement which makes me want to gauge my eyes out

 

[[Sher] Imran]

But Waleed

In haiku format
Shahrukh must write

Must
be
read in Shattner's
voice

Leaves falling
down
the
well

 

[Temurzai]

But Waleed

In haiku format
Shahrukh must write

Must
be
read in Shattner's
voice

Leaves falling
down
the
well

haha

 

[Shahrukh]

everyone stop talking shit about the way i post lol

 

[Meistro]

not to pump Shaan, but the small amount of time we spent together, i learned enuff to last a life time

awwwwww come here so I can hug u fag. lol jkkk........sidenote: i will have something to say about this later when i get home.

 

[ban3rg]

hahahaa. Waleed, SO true about SRK's posts. I was like on the edge of my seat reading each line, it was like reading Harry Potter all over again.

Anyway, before I respond to Jeeti's points, I should ask "What kind of crowd numbers do Raas and Hindi Film Dance competitions attract?"

Any clue?

 

[Jeeti]

Ok so...I am glad that my post was received well...I just have a couple things to add...First of all...let me say that...it is in fact possible to have creative, traditional entertaining routines (see my praise of SGPD in previous posts) there are some teams that have been able to do it, yet there are other teams which seem to do the same old stuff and its boringg and has been done before...
there is way too much monotony and copying going on...there happens to be a push for traditional and that is fine, but please do not forget that you are putting on a show...its not just a competition...for those that seem to criticize gimmicks and such...theres a crowd sitting in front of you...you aren't in a room facin a mirror......the entertainment points on judging criteria should be raised...its not just for you...whoever said that they don't really care what others think of the routine? are you serious? what happened to crowd pleasers? I do not have an issue with traditional routines...i love them...but seriously...theres a crowd in front of you, a crowd that paid to see you...Waleed, I completely agree with you in the sense that maybe its just a matter of time before teams find the right medium between traditionality and entertainment...There should be something for everyone in these routines is what I am trying to say...We can't walk around like..."well this is proper bhangra, so who cares what the crowd thinks"...if you think that the average person that walks into a show enjoys traditional routines...you are badly mistaken...as can be seen by Waleed's personal anecdote and I have had very similar experiences...

So...basically, I'd love to see the entertainment points in criteria raised...and although everybody loves tradition, take a little emphasis out of the level of where your hand is on the kunda (oh yeah..got feedback like that...not gonna mention names or comp)...Sorry, if I sound like I'm preaching...but this is something I think that needs to be assessed.

 

[Danny]

i have to agree with you on the Hip Hop analogy, rappers that were once great like Snoop or Ice Cube even bought into the modern style just to pay the bills and stay in the game.....and rappers like Common and Talib Kwali, although they are great.....they're records don't hit anywhere near nor get the exposure like the entertaining Lil Waynes or Kanye's, i mean even its not "real" hip hop (just like you would say Bhangra) its still fun to watch and its still going to bump in clubs more then ever AND most importantly will sell WAYYYY more tickets and will appeal WAYYY more to the youth and upcoming generations than the oldies will!

for example: Look at Bruin and the performance by JATT, who somewhat portrayed traditional bhangra and in return got yawns, whilst teams like Empire and Sher were cheered for by all ages

just my 2 pesos....take it or leave it :-\

 

[mafzal]

What about comps? Don't teams know that certain comps are "traditional" some are "modern" favoring and you will put together or change up your routine somewhat based on that. Team X will do a few different things at Fusion compared to what they would have done at AVAP, say. Team X knows they can be more creative at Fusion... is this not true? Everyone wants to place. If I was going somewhere I had seen "traditional" teams consistently get beaten out by some team with a more hype mix or a gimmick, I'd def put that stuff in! lol Or going to a more trad comp I'd cut the entertainment factor and focus more on hitting certain elements and being precise in holding your khunde or w/e.

Teams are gonna adapt somewhat to what they think is expected of them.

Yes//Noo?

 

[NavDheri]

To add onto Waleeds post,

Whenever there is a competition, I'll take my parents and they will sit through performances by Empire, Jawani, PDDS, Heeray, etc. No matter how graceful a team like Heeray is or their excution or how well their moves work compared to the song, my parents still walk out of the venue going WOW Empire was so great, did u see their stunts or how the girls switched shikke with the guys. It's slightly disheartening thinking that my parents and the general public find that more enjoyable than actual bhangra.

so your trying to say team like Empire don't do "actual" bhangra? Just because Empire doesn't do "traditional" bhangra...that's just ridiculous. I love traditional bhangra as much as any other person here and i love what Empire, Sher, DRP do too. Learn how to appreciate every style of bhangra. Traditional and Modern.