ARRANGED MARRIAGE

[Arjunarjun]

Yes..I am actually posting about this..hahah.
Being in an Indian etc. community in North America..what do you guys feel about arranged marriage? Are you guys against or for it?

Also, what are your opinions of marrying outside your race??

 

[Mukandpuria]

i would say they are rare if you are living in the USA the environment and culture is different form India....I think parents are more open to love marriage now a days than before...as far as marring out of culture i personally wouldn't do it becuase of the huge culture difference and having to explain things...its better to find a Punjabi who know it all...haha not saying i am narrow minded...plus my mummy speaks tutti futti English good that would be a nightmare..

 

[Summy]

I think it depends on how you go about this arrange marriage. If we are going to take it to the medieval times and you cant see the person, and its dont on social ground of the parents, and most likely finicial grounds, then there is no place for that in a human civilization.

But arrange marriages steam to a meeting of two people, where they can see if they like each other over several months and even years, etc... The families agree with each other but the decision ultimately is in the hands of the people getting married, theres no problem with that.

Yeah I said nothing concrete, but I think its a black and white issue. Arrange marriage is vilified in the west because of their vain attitudes of what eastern cultures are about. They hear the stories and generalize. The fact of the matter is arranged marriages have a lower divorce rate than other marriages.


Also Abhi, that was a funny comment about your mom... but an arriange marriage can also be a love marriage.

 

[Arjunarjun]

Yeah..arranged marriage is much different now and some people would not even considered it arranged because you get to meet the person and get to know them...I just think there is alot of pressures on guys and girls about finding a person of your race/religion etc and about marrying by a certain age..

I think the main question now would be what you guys think of marrying outside your race? Would any of you guys do it...or sacrifice it for your family?

 

[pluthra]

ok so ya arranged marriage-completely against...this is ur life ur talkin bout and y shud some1 else find who u marry even if it is through arranged dates in which u can decide whether or not u like the person...if ur gonna spend like the rest of ur life w/some1 then u better go find em urself dont expect other ppl make the decision for u

as far as marryin outside of my race....i dont see a problem w/it... i have family members who are married to people of a different race (yet if uve ever noticed....that race most of the time has a very similar culture to urs....or the person is white)....how come we never think of marryin a black person

either way i think that alot of the ppl on here are really into their culture that sure they may marry some1 from a different race...but i doubt that u cud forgot ur culture and try to learn the other persons culture....usually 1 race tends to dominate w/in the family then....my uncles are white/indian...growing up the american side of them dominated their life and i think this is due to the fact that my great aunt and uncle emphasized the american culture more (ex. the whole jock role, listenin to american music, eating american food)......i feel like alot of ppl on btf wud want to peserve their culture....have their kids learn bhangra, learn to sing, play the dhol, basically handle a whole bhangra team...that marryin into another culture..wud kinda shatter that dream u have...and plus u still wanna be able to have some way for ur kids to connect to their grandparents/ur parents....

 

[Arjunarjun]

I think you can still preserve your culture...it's not gonna be easy though. Plus, it also depends on your spouse and their openness.

Parul raised an interesting topic. Why not black? or even Mexican? I've noticed it's always white...and alot of us damn know our parents would prefer a white over the other two....anyone wonder why??

 

[Jeeti]

I think you can still preserve your culture...it's not gonna be easy though. Plus, it also depends on your spouse and their openness.

Parul raised an interesting topic. Why not black? or even Mexican? I've noticed it's always white...and alot of us damn know our parents would prefer a white over the other two....anyone wonder why??

The reason is that no matter how much our parents tell us not to be racist...they are a bit racist themselves. I hope I am not the only one that goes out of my way to say this...but I know for a fact that my parents look very differently upon white people than they do upon mexicans and blacks. I am not sure where this is rooted but it seems that to indians..white people are harmless....the "safe" race...

My only explanation is that the majority of mexicans and blacks are found in impoverished communities and are associated with higher crime rates than the white people in this country...being that most of our parents have come from impoverished communities in india...they see no excuse why these minorities can not rise up and excel as they have been able to do. I am not giving you my personal feelings..please do not take offense...I am simply trying to see it from our older generation's perspective. Indians also seem to consider minorities "lazy" probably on the account of the same reason previously mentioned...we must remember that our parents have fought very hard to get where they are now and do not enjoy any excuses...this is also why they have very high expectations for our generation (doctors, engineers, accountants, lawyers etc...)

 

[Mukandpuria]

Also Abhi, that was a funny comment about your mom... but an arriange marriage can also be a love marriage.

lol yea true...i mean your parents can pick a girl and you can fall in love, true..but if you think about it...if your parents pick a girl I am pretty sure they are going to cover the basics...can she cook, run a house, raise the kids, have good principles..blah blah...so that basically the whole culture part I was talking about...could you image your mom bring home a kali and like putt, this is who i picked for you...would never happen...


Jeeti i agree veereh, we can all say we are not racist or don't consider our religion or culture better than another but deep down inside we do. Infact my dads straight out racist around me(says things in punjabi)...lol no hiding it..the word "chura, chamar" i know Punjabi parents use those words a lot and the botom like is they are degrading a caste. So in my eyes everyones racist in different ways..just hide it really well

 

[pluthra]

I am not sure where this is rooted but it seems that to indians..white people are harmless....the "safe" race...

thats the only reason i see it basically....plus not only are blacks/mexicans related to more crimes bout more domestic violence....how many times wud u hear of a white man beatin up his wife?? most black/mexican men still have w/in them that mentality that they are the stronger sex (presented in rap/hip-hop/r&B) which carries through generations....and plus they're seen as overall shady (ya its bad to hold this stereotype-but it takes time to get over it as well)...

also...this is gonna sound reallly rude...but i dont think white people actually have a culture....they trace themselves back to their culture and say yaa im half italian, half french, half german.....yet present none of the aspects of those cultures.....its easier for a white person to adapt to another culture b/c of (my idea) that they dont have a culture....and thus it fascinates them of the values that certain cultures have....like ever notice how white people get so interested in the indian culture...they'll be like ohh ur indian-and they question u on ur values 1st.....this goes to show that our culture has these set morals for people that makes it easy to say yaa i am indian and as an indian i believe in ideas like respectin my elders, gettin a good education, etc.-sure these values are taught in the american culture....but to wat extent do they compare to ours (like the whole respectin ur elders issue----indian kids treat their parents alot differently than a white kid does).....so bak to my point...people like havin set morals for them...things that make sense to them and give em a purpose in life-wat are the values for an american person??? (i believe in individuality-thats bout it).....the american culture stresses individuality like no other culture out there....though when people realize that hey i can be an individual as well as part of a communion then they feel like they really belong somewhere...and thats wat our culture provides...so thats y i feel like its easier for a white person to adapt to our culture vs an indian adaptin to another culture

 

[Chidiya]

I'm all for arrange marriage and I'm probably going to end up getting an arranged one..mainly for the sake of my parents. And as far as marrying outside of my race..nope, I wouldn't even consider it because I dated this white guy once and he never really understood why I couldnt come out at 11pm just to kick it at his place..and I never could explain to him whey I love bollywood flicks so much or explain to him why I do certain things that I do. It just gets to a point where you're like 'eff this, i gotta explain the reasoning behind this now'

Also, Abhi brings up a valid point. When we desi's marry someone, we marry the entire family. ya my parents speak english but its not as flawless as they'd like it to be and i'm sure they'd have a difficulty understanding someone who wasnt of the same culture or religion.

 

[Summy]

Okay Parul,

I undersatnd your thing about dating someone in another race, but the whole culture argument is weird.

Okay, you know firstly, when you say whites have "no culture", thats faulty. I understand you believe that whites have less of a distinct one, but it depends where you live. Cacussaions in Toronto are numerous and have distinct cultures that take them to italy, scotland, other parts of the UK. As far as Anglo's, yeah, it might be less obvious, but they do have a distinct culture, I can go into it, but it will take long... (ie-working times, dinner times, what they few as customary)

You realize EVERY single sceintific study shows that second generation, meaning those who parents were born abroad, identify more with their current of birth, than their parents country of origin as far of values. So yes, you may have this feeling that "whites" have no culture, but you adhere to their culture everyday. You adhere to things that are distinctly different to your Indian culture. When you look at the statistics in India, and specfifically punjab, compared to US, you can see that what is seen as "progressive" in our minds, can simply be adhereing to years of the "white" mentality ingrained in this western culture. People see India as less progressive, in some part due to women's rights... Although on the rise, women do have a class ceiling in india, and are less educated... In the USA, its the opposite, women of Indian decent actually are in post secondary education more than men of Indian decent.

So when you say, ohhhh the whites have no culture, and we indians do. More defined, your correct. But from the time you wake up, to how you act, to what you identify with, its all a product of the culture you say doesnt exist. because its the "norm" we see them as having no culture, but if an Indian were to talk to them, they would see something else...

-------

Jeeti,


What your talking about is an immensely interesting subject... So many explanations. Steams from imperialism and the fact that it was ingrained in mentalities all over the world that other miniorities are worst than you or your worst then them.

Another explanation is the fact that the white man is a safe figure because of years of manipulation. Look at McCain and Obama, the first black this, the first black that... The US is used to the old white man runing the country, and now that the young black haired man is, the apprehension is there fore a reason.

I really hope people can expand on this topic because its immensely important. Not to create reverse racism in the sense that we think negatively about whites, but to realize that there has been a concerned effort for the conception of immigration reforms (putting immigrants in areas where the local buisness are ethnic, but a strong noticeability of white success- ie- subrubs of NY) to make sure that the whites were placed in a level above the immigrants.

 

[Jeeti]

Jeeti,


What your talking about is an immensely interesting subject... So many explanations. Steams from imperialism and the fact that it was ingrained in mentalities all over the world that other miniorities are worst than you or your worst then them.

Another explanation is the fact that the white man is a safe figure because of years of manipulation. Look at McCain and Obama, the first black this, the first black that... The US is used to the old white man runing the country, and now that the young black haired man is, the apprehension is there fore a reason.

I really hope people can expand on this topic because its immensely important. Not to create reverse racism in the sense that we think negatively about whites, but to realize that there has been a concerned effort for the conception of immigration reforms (putting immigrants in areas where the local buisness are ethnic, but a strong noticeability of white success- ie- subrubs of NY) to make sure that the whites were placed in a level above the immigrants.

Wow...bro see my post on Obama in Florida..I just posted a few minutes ago...its very similar to what you stated regarding whites running the country.

 

[pluthra]

Okay Parul,
Okay, you know firstly, when you say whites have "no culture", thats faulty. I understand you believe that whites have less of a distinct one, but it depends where you live. Cacussaions in Toronto are numerous and have distinct cultures that take them to italy, scotland, other parts of the UK. As far as Anglo's, yeah, it might be less obvious, but they do have a distinct culture, I can go into it, but it will take long... (ie-working times, dinner times, what they few as customary)

So when you say, ohhhh the whites have no culture, and we indians do. More defined, your correct. But from the time you wake up, to how you act, to what you identify with, its all a product of the culture you say doesnt exist. because its the "norm" we see them as having no culture, but if an Indian were to talk to them, they would see something else...

actually summy i gotta agree w/u...nvr thought that wud happen...but yaa now that u say it that way it is that whites have a less defined culture than indians rather than having none...my bad

but if i were to talk to a white person....wud they really express their culture entirely?? when i talk to a white person they often just express the views of the people they spend time around....that wording is awkward....but like white people listenin to rap (rap is usually distinguished as black culture)...i guess in order to really understand another culture one's gotta be able to willing to sacrifice some time and show interest in learnin bout another culture (but rite now i kinda just find the american culture lacking wat i want in order to fully take interest in it-even though i am in parts assimilated into it)

 

[Jeeti]

Okay Parul,
Okay, you know firstly, when you say whites have "no culture", thats faulty. I understand you believe that whites have less of a distinct one, but it depends where you live. Cacussaions in Toronto are numerous and have distinct cultures that take them to italy, scotland, other parts of the UK. As far as Anglo's, yeah, it might be less obvious, but they do have a distinct culture, I can go into it, but it will take long... (ie-working times, dinner times, what they few as customary)

So when you say, ohhhh the whites have no culture, and we indians do. More defined, your correct. But from the time you wake up, to how you act, to what you identify with, its all a product of the culture you say doesnt exist. because its the "norm" we see them as having no culture, but if an Indian were to talk to them, they would see something else...

actually summy i gotta agree w/u...nvr thought that wud happen...but yaa now that u say it that way it is that whites have a less defined culture than indians rather than having none...my bad

but if i were to talk to a white person....wud they really express their culture entirely?? when i talk to a white person they often just express the views of the people they spend time around....that wording is awkward....but like white people listenin to rap (rap is usually distinguished as black culture)...i guess in order to really understand another culture one's gotta be able to willing to sacrifice some time and show interest in learnin bout another culture (but rite now i kinda just find the american culture lacking wat i want in order to fully take interest in it-even though i am in parts assimilated into it)

There are plenty first and even second generation Irish and Italian Americans that will very loudly and proudly express their culture...as strong, if not stronger then the way we do...and Summy well said...the "norm" is considered the "control" if you will of what you have to compare with with other cultures, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is no culture there.

 

[TheSlammer]

Good topic..... In my opinion Indians need to tone it down on marriage. There is soo much pressure for one to get married. Its like you go to school you finally grad and then bam they pound you about marriage. And if someone doesn't have a girlfriend/boyfriend what are they suppose to do? Go meet a random Indian from India and get married? Yet you barely know this person? I could never do that.

I think people get married just to more so "shut there parents up" I would never pressure my child the way people I kno get pressured.

To the person who says "white people don't have culture"
-Not true.....We live in "white people" culture, and thats where these barriers come up.. We wake up go to school or work from 9-5. Then when we have time we go out and socialize or what not....We are living in there culture.....If you go to India and live "our" culture its 100% different than what we live here. Our parents Our parents get mixed up in what went on in there day and what goes on today (example-marriage) I have some white friends who are in there late 30z and still are single and have no remorse...But if your an indian and that way your pretty much considered an outkast.

With time you will see more and more indians marrying into other races.....Is that bad? NO...if we live in america our parents will have to accept not marrying indians. Thats a sacrifice they take when moving here and most will never ever realize that until it hits them.

 

[pluthra]

thats me who said "white people dont have a culture"-and my bad again...its less defined like summy explained (and i usually define culture a bit differently-as in more than wat people do in their normal life)

 

[HarmanSingh]

Parul, I find what you wrote to be wrong on so many accounts, and extremely offensive on others.

First, as Summy said, everyone has a culture. Whether you believe that culture is homogeneous or not you can argue, but everyone has a culture. Any sociologist will tell you that. To say their is no German culture, no Irish culture, no British culture, etc is faulty to say the least. As Summy was hinting at, much of what you do in America is based off of these cultures and they have had a significant impact on your day to day activities whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

You mention how people on this forum will most likely want their kids to preserve Punjabi culture by learning to play dhol, doing bhangra, etc. BUt is that all it is about? If so, there are plenty of white people who are apparently Punjabi, because they do all of these things too. I think the majority of the people on this forum don't know how to speak Punjabi, let alone write it or read it. If these parts of our culture are being lost, well then I guess we have no culture either. Now of course, you can say Punjabi culture is about "respecting parents" and all of that good stuff, but honestly, what culture would say they aren't about that? You say Punjabi kids respect their parents more than white kids. I am not so sure, at least here in the west. You see these kids whose parents work 2-3 jobs, working their fingers to the bone so their kids can get an education, and all they are doing is out there partying, wasting their parents' money and disrespecting them by lying to them on a regular basis and sneaking around behind their backs. Oh what Punjabi parents would say if they could see their kids' facebook accounts. lol.

Now the truly offensive part of your post for me was your indictment on black and Latino men.
"blacks/mexicans related to more crimes bout more domestic violence....how many times wud u hear of a white man beatin up his wife??"

You do realize you have no factual information to back that bold statement up right? It is true that the percentage of black women involved in domestic abuse is higher than the percentage of white women in domestic abuse. However, you are ignoring an extremely significant factor being that black and Hispanic women report domestic abuse at 70% of cases, while white women report it at around 50%. So any statistic you have to say by percentage black men abuse their wives more is severely skewed and holds little weight. Domestic abuse and rape statistics are very unreliable due to this fact. Women, especially immigrant women are often afraid to report their cases in fear of the repercussions for their children or their immigrant status. Also, you are failing to acknowledge several important factors such as the correlation between violence and poverty. As the percentage of black and latino families in poverty is higher than white families, it is important to note the effect these factors have on abuse.

It is especially absurd you would make such a claim when Indian culture has been so entrenched in its abuse of women and disrespect of females. From female infanticide to the lack of freedom Indian women have both in India and the West, the Indian community needs to clean out its own closet before it admonishes blacks and Latinos for their treatment of women.

The obsession/admiration Indians have with white people is something that continues to shock me. Why is it Indians, from the elders to the younger generations feel so compelled to defend white people and act as if black people are savages, when it was in fact WHITE PEOPLE who colonized India and subjected our people to atrocity after atrocity. Tell me what exactly black people have done that is so hurtful to India? Follow all of Indian history, and you will see white Europeans continuously oppressed our people and subjected them to many of the problems the community still faces to this day. I guess that brainwashing by the British worked well, as we continue to act as if they are moral compasses, while black people are violent criminals.

 

[Jeeti]

The obsession/admiration Indians have with white people is something that continues to shock me. Why is it Indians, from the elders to the younger generations feel so compelled to defend white people and act as if black people are savages, when it was in fact WHITE PEOPLE who colonized India and subjected our people to atrocity after atrocity. Tell me what exactly black people have done that is so hurtful to India? Follow all of Indian history, and you will see white Europeans continuously oppressed our people and subjected them to many of the problems the community still faces to this day. I guess that brainwashing by the British worked well, as we continue to act as if they are moral compasses, while black people are violent criminals.

Harman bro...I agree with everything you said, but would like to comment on this last statement. The reason for the obsession/admiration Indians have with white people is because the struggle against the whites has long been forgotten since Indian independence (which is sad, but true). Because this is forgotten, you must take the context of America differently. In America, the long standing stereotype of blacks being poor, as well as trouble to society still exists whether we like it or not. Combine that with the fact that as I said earlier, our parents as minorities do not see an excuse for the position that some blacks are in and instead would rather blame it on "laziness" (not to be offensive at all...it all goes towards the stereotype that already exists)...So...the ultimate question comes down to a very touchy one...and one that I do not wish to answer because I have no idea...

Is the plight of our parents and the precarious position they were in India equivalent to the plight that African Americans face in this country?

..If in fact they are..then the answer to your question of why Indians consider blacks as lower than whites is that our parents see no reason for blacks to not be able to rise up...if the two plights are not equivalent...then...it is just unnecessary racism...

make sense?

 

[HarmanSingh]

The obsession/admiration Indians have with white people is something that continues to shock me. Why is it Indians, from the elders to the younger generations feel so compelled to defend white people and act as if black people are savages, when it was in fact WHITE PEOPLE who colonized India and subjected our people to atrocity after atrocity. Tell me what exactly black people have done that is so hurtful to India? Follow all of Indian history, and you will see white Europeans continuously oppressed our people and subjected them to many of the problems the community still faces to this day. I guess that brainwashing by the British worked well, as we continue to act as if they are moral compasses, while black people are violent criminals.

Harman bro...I agree with everything you said, but would like to comment on this last statement. The reason for the obsession/admiration Indians have with white people is because the struggle against the whites has long been forgotten since Indian independence (which is sad, but true). Because this is forgotten, you must take the context of America differently. In America, the long standing stereotype of blacks being poor, as well as trouble to society still exists whether we like it or not. Combine that with the fact that as I said earlier, our parents as minorities do not see an excuse for the position that some blacks are in and instead would rather blame it on "laziness" (not to be offensive at all...it all goes towards the stereotype that already exists)...So...the ultimate question comes down to a very touchy one...and one that I do not wish to answer because I have no idea...

Is the plight of our parents and the precarious position they were in India equivalent to the plight that African Americans face in this country?

..If in fact they are..then the answer to your question of why Indians consider blacks as lower than whites is that our parents see no reason for blacks to not be able to rise up...if the two plights are not equivalent...then...it is just unnecessary racism...

make sense?

Yeah man, I get where you are coming from.

Quite honestly, I feel like we have been brainwashed to believe this way similar to the "doll test" conducted in th 50's to show the adverse effects segregation had on young black children. For those unfamiliar, young black children were shown a bunch of different dolls, some white, some black and were asked to pick out the "prettiest" doll. Most every black child picked the white doll as being prettier, and struggled to explain why it was better looking other than the fact that it was white. This test was repeated in the 2000s, only to show the same results. It shows the deeply ingrained and entrenched issues of racism and its effects on the black community. To go back to Indians/white people, I think it is very similar. Indians were forced to accept British rule and were consciously or subconsciously programmed to believe the British weren't so bad, but that we were lucky to be ruled by such a superior race of people. Over time, we began to adopt many of the British views of race, which also meant the negativity towards other races.

But your explanation also makes a lot of sense. Personally, I don't think Punjabi families are in the same positions as black Americans. And even if they were, could we not look at India and see the rate of poverty there being much higher than America and say, "well, Indians are lazy, and live in their own filth." Much the same way Indians, Africans and many others were viewed as barbarians by colonizers who were simply less than. That sentiment of laziness is so flawed, but I am sure you know that.

 

[pluthra]

actually harman now that its been pointed out to me on several occassions that my post is extremely offensive-it is...and i figured it wud be....i dont have a single fact to prove the points i have...instead im just statin stereotypes some people tend to hold

2) preserving ur culture is on so many different levels...(i wasjust relatin it to bhangra seein that all of us here can relate to that) but theres more important thing than that people would want to see in their kids...as in religion, speakin/reading/writin punjabi,etc ....those things are definetly more important (i myself can't write/read punjabi or hindi...and when i speak it its terrible...yet id still like to have my kids be really good at it)

3) my statement again bout indian kids havin more respect for their parents than their white kids (was again wrong-and i shud have definetly thought b/c ya there are indian kids out there who aren't seen as the most respectful)

4) the domestic violence claim again i cant prove....plus like u said statistics are skewed...black/latino women are more likely to report it than white women...and as far as the statistics among the indian community-those are probably the most skewed-since how many indian women would report that

my whole post is wrong on so many claims.....ill definitely look up things before i talk...but guys dont kill me....i understant it...i guess i cud be looked as a representation of our parents.....these stereotypes live (but i dotn have a problem w/any races...and personally i dont think that a person shud be classified by their race...like they say dont judge a book by its cover...i wudnt base judgements on statistics or stereotypes or wat people around me believe.....my family may think that black people arent the greatest people-yet i cant base a black person on this....)
if our parents maybe took the time to understand how wrong they are on so many levels.....maybe then they can overcome their weaknesses......u guys did prove it to work w/me (even though i really dont hold those stereoypes) yet when u literally attacked the claim i made and showed to me how it was wrong.....it made me begin questioning myself and ask y in the world did i make such a claim when theres no reason on earth to think like that

i dont kno my parents views on certain subjects that i find important.....yet i bet if i asked them theirs and if i didnt think it was right and expressed to them y they may actually be able to understand a new perspective....ive tried it w/a few things i find important and it has worked before

so basically...maybe its just that we've nvr tried attempted to question our parents y they call black people bad names, y they see other races as not good.....and the reason maybe that if we were to they mite find this offensive....but if our parents care so much about us im sure they'll go the limit to get rid of their stereotypes and see things from our view