Behavior at Competitions

[Saleem]

No problem man. That's a good point -- our split topics aren't normally so specifically about video critiques and team talk.

 

[yraparla]

What's up faizan. Long time my brotha.

I didn't want to say anything, but for fucks sake man...you have people in this thread saying, "Oh it's groupies" "oh how often is it teams though" "Oh lets get teams only hotels" after Motor City Bhangra specifically stated that there were a couple teams that were the cause of starting shit and destroying hotel property and money will be deducted out of their placings.

The ass kissing has gone too far. Why are you folks trying to protect these teams?? Seriously, gtfo.

you miss the point I was making though. By limiting outside people you have, by definition, transparency about teams. Teams can be held responsible and competitions can fairly seek retribution. My point is there are a lot of times when some guys says "I'm with Gabroo Brap Boys" and who know if it's true or not. Kinnells situation is fundamentally different. We need to both call people out and also try things to prevent issues from happening in first place. Two sides of the same coin, dismissing either is stupid.

 

[monisingh]

Wow, truly sad. I hope the guy that hit the girl gets his ass handed to him.

Moving on, I think the biggest problem in this damage, violence etc stuff is that too many people, including organizers are far too willing to kiss ass of these top tier teams. And trust me...it is usually the top tier teams because they'll know they can get away with it.

Motor City Bhangra's acct said, "As far as the damages are concerned a couple of teams really stood out than the others when it came to creating problems and damaging Hotel property so we will be taking strict actions towards them. I do not want to name any teams but I want to let you know that you know who you are and if you are a placing team at my competition the money that the Hotel will charge us for all these damages will be deducted out of your prize money."

You say you do not want to name teams. My question to you is, Why the fuck not? What do you owe them. They came to your competition, took advantage of your hospitality and left giving you a middle finger. Fuck them. Name their asses. These little immature boys who can't handle their liquor need to be called out. And taking money out of their placings isn't going to do anything. This shit will happen again if this "not calling them out" continues to be the norm.

I got respect for people like Kinnell who have the balls to state what needs to be stated. Too bad the rest of us are not like him. And good job BTF moderators. Deleting his post was crucial because of course, we can't have people knowing a top tier team was acting like little bitches. We gotta keep kissing their ass.

My request to the Bhangra circuit. Please do not be afraid. If you see dumb shit happen, call these people out. They need to be publicly humiliated so they know this shit will not fly in the future.

+1

 

[Bballer]

Turbo you said that the little immature boys that can't handle their liquor need to be called out and then applaud kinnell. I thought Kinnell was the one that was getting himself into trouble because he couldn't control himself while intoxicated. I'm in no way defending Nachdi as it was uncalled for them to beat up Kinnell, but seriously he in no way should be applauded for his actions. He was part of the problem.

 

[Bballer]

I agree with you that this needs to be stopped and that teams/individuals that are causing problems should be publicly revealed on BTF. However my point was that those words by Kinnell instigated the entire mess. Should Nachdi have been the bigger men and walked away, of course. However if Kinnell didn't say anything no violence would have occurred. The only thing I can think of as a direct solution to this problem is increased security by the competition because there isn't much hope in changing the behavior of some people.

 

[Bballer]

Thanks for the clarification, I understand where you're coming from now.

 

[gursh313]

In regards to what happened at MCB, all Kinnell really did was critique; he admitted NJ had a good set, some mistakes in regards to a couple of dancers. When a judge gives a critique, do they have to afraid that he's gonna get jumped right then and there. Thinking they were his friends, he went outside with them and that's when they hit him; but due to the quick actions of some at the comp, he was saved before any real damage was done. The issue at hand is that assault occurred plain and simple, doesn't matter if Kinnell said something they didn't like, what happened shouldn't have.


Also I agree with Turbo, its good that he called them out on it; might stop them from doing it again and/or someone else getting hurt.

 

[Sue Sylvester]

I agree with you that this needs to be stopped and that teams/individuals that are causing problems should be publicly revealed on BTF. However my point was that those words by Kinnell instigated the entire mess. Should Nachdi have been the bigger men and walked away, of course. However if Kinnell didn't say anything no violence would have occurred. The only thing I can think of as a direct solution to this problem is increased security by the competition because there isn't much hope in changing the behavior of some people.

Bballer, you speak with a sense of knowing without having insight into the situation. Nachdi brought up an inebriated incident from a previous competition, not the one in question right now. I would repeat the words spoken even had I not drank at all. The intention was not disrespect and they should have known that since I ALSO said that I idolized Bobby as a dancer and that Nachdi has some of the best dancers in the circuit... but alas, I also said that they do make mistakes on stage. Taken out of context, that last statement can easily paint a different picture of what I meant. I was very cordial with them at the mixer and when they asked me outside before the incident, I said "I don't smoke, but I'll come to chill. You guys are chill". It should be noted that instigating anything was far from the intention and what happened next was the biggest surprise to me.


I am hoping that this is the last I have to say anything about this. But I do hope that something positive can come out of this.

 

[ravioli151]

The ass kissing has got to stop. The teams causing trouble repeatedly AND getting away with it. That aint right!!! A girl got punched, and other altercations, what next??? This is just escalating. Covering those team's asses to maintain their "rep" is just going to provoke them more to do more shit. Other teams may follow and make this BS social acceptable at all future bhangra competitions. Something's gotta be done. Its about time that on BTF those teams are exposed on this forum publicly and made of an example of them. TEAMS SHOULD GET THE RESPECT THEY ACTUALLY DESERVED.

 

[himynameis]

Ghand paya neyanean ne

 

[hardeep_singh]

Just a clarification, the guy who punched one of the SMD girls was not affiliated with any bhangra teams from my understanding. There were a few non bhangra associated "local" dudes hanging around in the hotel, i happened to bump into a few of em and they acted like retarded douchebags, i heard from another team that some of em hit up their hotel rooms uninvited and polished off their liquor.

The kinnell situation is a matter of respect, how you respect yourself and how you respect others. There is nothing to gain from being violent at a competition, all you do is damage your own rep, liquor and arrogance are no excuse. If someone says something you don't like, is there really anything to gain by escalating to the point where you risk facing charges?

To swi's point BBC is a prime example of how a comp should be managed. They have liasons/committee who are prepared to deal with whatever happens, I've never seen any of the BBC committee members get drunk at the comp. The liasons are first line of defense, beyond that they have bouncers at the afterparty and one on every floor that teams are staying on. Rohit and Amit also patrol all the floors and make sure that if something is going on it gets toned down. They also seem to have a really good relationship with the hosting hotel since they use it for BBC and SAS. The hotel management is really accommodating from what i've seen; the manager comes off as a hardass but he's just making sure nothing goes bad. Great example for other comps to learn from. You can't control teams when your liasons/committee get wasted after the comp.

 

[Jagga515]

This behavior is atrocious. I leave the circuit for 8 months and it feels like shit has really hit the fan. It was bad before, but holy hell, this is terrible. PEOPLE, don't be afraid to call the perpetrators out publicly.

Think of the circuit as the NFL or any other league sport. When a player does something outrageous or out of line, the media is all over his ass. BTF is the bhangra circuit's media, so use it as an outlet to spread awareness of SPECIFIC details of an ill-mannered situation, including names.

It's about time the circuit gets a lesson on class. The lack of class is why I left in the first place, and after reading this post, I don't feel bad about leaving the one thing I truly love. Bhangra.

 

[Ak_Di_Nishani]

But how often are the instigators even involved in the circuit? Am I mistaken or is a lot of the fighting from groupies/"local goons"?

The guys in this case were not dancers or part of any team (one was dating a girl who performed... that is the only relation). Neither have ever been on a team or anything...

I think it's a bigger problem... I do commend you for what you are doing though it is a positive step - I just hope it can reach outside the bhangra community?

what happened at MCB was RIDICULOUS to a new level that i never could have imagined

I would say in my experience the past year it's been primarily groupies or even just random people at competitions (that hasn't always been the case though). It's tough to ask teams to control/police friends and groupies since half the team may not even know the random guy and bhangra popularity has exploded....

I honestly think solution is to make competitions about the teams again. BBC always does an excellent job of this. Teams are in one hotel, mixer/afterparty are in hotel and you dont' get in if you're not rostered. This makes it much more about the teams and meeting and forming friendships than a lot of places. This also gives competitions more control to monitor what's going on and respond in the interest of teams (again, BBC does a great job of going to team rooms that have complaints and handling it without hotel and police involvement, and I think teams respect that and are a little nicer).

It comes down to competitions fostering an atmosphere and protecting their brand. period. You want to use a hotel again? Book rooms for teams, anyone not in a competition room is not part of the competition, period. Work it out with the staff (a 20 to the custodial staff goes a long way to getting info) and patrol your rooms. It's unfair that comps have to do this, but if they start then teams will follow suit.

I agree with you a 100 % Swi, holding them accountable is the only way you can ensure a safe and positive environment for your dancers.

With our competition (although it is not strictly Bhangra) we only allow team members to stay in the hotel after they are registered with hotel wristbands being the only way those floors are accessible past posted security guards. We also require that a cardholder for each room be given for participants as they will be directly charged for any damages that weekend. (the card is a precaution)

A record of each dancer/executive is kept after verifying with photo ID and the wristband number corresponds to that name. If an incident does occur, that wristband is removed and the person is kicked out (we then have on record the person responsible for causing the disturbance) Points are also removed from that parties affiliated team no questions asked (a strict point protocol is in place for certain disturbances i,e loudness, fighting, disrespecting a competition official). It is not our responsibility to babysit members of teams they are grown adults who should be able to control their own teammates. These are just some of the rules we have in place that we have found very productive in ensuring the monitoring of teams and being able to have accountability.

If we can control the behavior of 10 teams made up of 30 dancers each (not to mention team executives) there is ZERO reason why the same cannot be said of Bhangra teams at competitions. While teams should definetly be responsible for their dancers, the onus is on the organizers of competitions to provide a safe and manageable environment for their participants.

 

[ravioli151]

Just a clarification, the guy who punched one of the SMD girls was not affiliated with any bhangra teams from my understanding. There were a few non bhangra associated "local" dudes hanging around in the hotel, i happened to bump into a few of em and they acted like retarded douchebags, i heard from another team that some of em hit up their hotel rooms uninvited and polished off their liquor.

The kinnell situation is a matter of respect, how you respect yourself and how you respect others. There is nothing to gain from being violent at a competition, all you do is damage your own rep, liquor and arrogance are no excuse. If someone says something you don't like, is there really anything to gain by escalating to the point where you risk facing charges?

To swi's point BBC is a prime example of how a comp should be managed. They have liasons/committee who are prepared to deal with whatever happens, I've never seen any of the BBC committee members get drunk at the comp. The liasons are first line of defense, beyond that they have bouncers at the afterparty and one on every floor that teams are staying on. Rohit and Amit also patrol all the floors and make sure that if something is going on it gets toned down. They also seem to have a really good relationship with the hosting hotel since they use it for BBC and SAS. The hotel management is really accommodating from what i've seen; the manager comes off as a hardass but he's just making sure nothing goes bad. Great example for other comps to learn from. You can't control teams when your liasons/committee get wasted after the comp.

True, Bhangra competitions should be nothing but safe and fun. If certain precautions such as security, more organization and other planning is what it takes, then it should be done.

 

[Kaur]

If a team is the one causing violence then how about stripping them of their trophy/placing? I know with some local soccer leagues even if you get into a fight after the game they will take your placing away.

 

[Waleed]

Just wanted to say that this may be one of the best threads we've ever had on BTF.

Don't be disappointed if we don't get concrete results right away, the first step is voicing our concerns and standing together as a community against ANY type of violence and vandalism.

With the proactive people who seemed to be involved with this effort, we will definitely see some tangible positive changes in the future! As a member of the Bhangra community, you have my support Dheerja & co.

 

[Howie Magz]

Wow, truly sad. I hope the guy that hit the girl gets his ass handed to him.

Moving on, I think the biggest problem in this damage, violence etc stuff is that too many people, including organizers are far too willing to kiss ass of these top tier teams. And trust me...it is usually the top tier teams because they'll know they can get away with it.

Motor City Bhangra's acct said, "As far as the damages are concerned a couple of teams really stood out than the others when it came to creating problems and damaging Hotel property so we will be taking strict actions towards them. I do not want to name any teams but I want to let you know that you know who you are and if you are a placing team at my competition the money that the Hotel will charge us for all these damages will be deducted out of your prize money."

You say you do not want to name teams. My question to you is, Why the fuck not? What do you owe them. They came to your competition, took advantage of your hospitality and left giving you a middle finger. Fuck them. Name their asses. These little immature boys who can't handle their liquor need to be called out. And taking money out of their placings isn't going to do anything. This shit will happen again if this "not calling them out" continues to be the norm.

I got respect for people like Kinnell who have the balls to state what needs to be stated. Too bad the rest of us are not like him. And good job BTF moderators. Deleting his post was crucial because of course, we can't have people knowing a top tier team was acting like little bitches. We gotta keep kissing their ass.

My request to the Bhangra circuit. Please do not be afraid. If you see dumb shit happen, call these people out. They need to be publicly humiliated so they know this shit will not fly in the future.

I agree with what everyone is saying. Being a part of the weekend at MCB I saw all of this go down (one of the girl dancers getting assaulted) including the incident with Kinnel. Both incidents are totally uncalled for and was disgusting. I hope this change comes soon and that none of this BS continues. I think overall people need to learn how to control their liquor if they are to drink. A lot of these incidents derive from being intoxicated.......

 

[princ3ofd3sis]

If you think about it, every sports league has a code of conduct. When this code is violated, there are penalties against the player and team. These sports leagues don't give an opportunity for violence or intimidation to arise because there are factors set that prevent that, because as we all know hoping people act in good-will and act in a rational fashion is ONLY a hope we have. Whether THEY abide by that or not is up to THEM, not the bhangra circuit or the competition hosts. There aren't any strict rules in place, or even an outline for a code of behavior that people are mandated to abide by.


Isn't bhangra supposed to support a professional atmosphere? Aren't the dancers that take some of the biggest stages in bhangra professionals themselves? If they are, then why do they still act this way?


It's because there isn't a uniform code of conduct that's established for ALL teams across the board. In my opinion, that has to be created before anything because clearly relying on the good-will and rational thinking of people is something we can't rely on, and something no sports organization relies on at all.


So why don't we work on a uniform code of conduct that is established across the board at every competition? The penalties can be discussed and established and even changed at a later time.


We can't afford to make our culture look like this, so lets set preventative measures now for the preservation of it in the future.

 

[Basim]

So why don't we work on a uniform code of conduct that is established across the board at every competition? The penalties can be discussed and established and even changed at a later time.

+1

This parallels with what I stated in my post above

~ Basim

 

[dheerja]

This has been such a great discussion so far, and it's obvious that I don't stand alone in wanting change. I see two clear paths in how we approach this:


1) Protection for teams from outside people/groupies - We all acknowledge that a good amount of the violent behavior comes from non-team members who are either affiliated with a team or are just there to make a mess. Teams MUST be protected from these people, and some great ideas have already been posted in this thread:

• Keep the teams in an undisclosed hotel - only allow team members to stay in the hotel after they are registered with the hotel via ID and wristband, block access to the floors/rooms for all other people
• Host mixer and afterparty in the hotel, only make it available to team members on rosters
• Committee members take turns patrolling the hotel hallways and notifying security/police immediately of any unknown troublemakers

2) Zero tolerance for team bad behavior - Competition organizers have the advantage of knowing the information for each member on every team, and can easily take action against any misdemeanors if the proper steps are in place.

• Teams already sign a waiver when they submit registration for most competitions, but unfortunately most competitions don't actually uphold these. Make these more detailed and hold teams 100% accountable for all their actions.
• Teams must book their hotel rooms under their own names and are thus responsible to the hotel for all damages they incur.
• On top of the registration fee, all teams should submit a deposit amount determined by the competition that will be refunded to them pending good behavior.
• If a team violates any of the terms of the above-mentioned waiver, they are banned from any future competitions, will be placed on a list that is distributed to all competitions and the larger community, and any placings/money is withheld.

For EITHER of these cases - if there are incidents of fighting, assault, damages, etc., these should be reported and handled properly! If the police should be involved, then file a report. There should be legal repercussions for this kind of behavior as well so we're not only relying on our own form of justice.




As we continue this discussion, I'll start drafting a formal proposal and petition so we can put these into action.