bhangra?

[jfried]

bhangra was created as a dance form and is a part of punjabi culture

Yea, it was created in like 1960. You're complaining about the evolution of a dance that has been "part of punjabi culture" for like 50 years. My house is older than bhangra. so is my dad, the tree in my backyard, and rock music...haha

Bhangra what it is today (to a certain extent) was created in the late 50's and early 60's but bhangra as it relates to cooking hemp and celebration of the harvest has existed much longer than that.

I think that's the important distinction here. Bhangra as a modern stage art form has existed since the mid to late 1950s at the earliest (the first truly modern bhangra performances were the Republic Day performances of the 1950s). Bhangra as a folk dance, which strictly means modern bhangra's component parts, is far older.

In my mind, you have to draw a distinction between modern stage bhangra and "bhangra" (ie: sammi, luddi, sialkoti, mirza, jhoomer, etc alone). Yes, the component parts are very very old, but their actual reimagining is not. When we complain about bhangra changing too much and worrying about what happened to folk, we need to realize that bhangra is a living, breathing art form which will be changed and reimagined based on the experiences of the people who dance it. It's evolving, it's not a static bloc.

 

[hardeep_singh]

i think bhangras been around for as long as there have been crazy punjabi weddings/celebrations and buddhay drinkin too much daru. don't worry about this form of bhangra ever being corrupted, you won't ever see a drunked up uncle at a party pulling gimmicks or flying down from the ceiling. so next time you're at a party and you see an older punjabi dude goin wild doin funky arm and leg motions, just remember "eh folk ah"

 

[campy614]

When we complain about bhangra changing too much and worrying about what happened to folk, we need to realize that bhangra is a living, breathing art form which will be changed and reimagined based on the experiences of the people who dance it. It's evolving, it's not a static bloc.

Thank you. Someone gets it!

 

[amancheema]

"Folk" Bhangra:

Bhangra - Jatt Kudiyan Toh Darda Maara - Mohd.Rafi & Shamshad Begum




Not dancing like that? You're modern.

 

[Jagga515]

Bhangra 101...I'm assuming you love bhangra, right? And if you love bhangra, you probably want to see it flourish among the masses, right? In order for Bhangra to reach a larger, more global audience, it must evolve. Without evolution Bhangra will remain in the cities of Punjab and will not read much further.

Evolution for the win.

 

[bhangra_101]

jagmeet I'm sure u saw the video and performance from bhangra empire, note they did do stunts and gimmicks but i can say that other than 3 parts of their performance every step they did was bhangra even when they played nusrat fateh and the american music the steps were bhangra steps




Bhangra Empire @ Bruin Bhangra 2012


watch @ 4:12


the only time they don't do bhangra is 1 gimmick at 4:32 and that came out nice too


the thing is a lot of new teams have changed the bhangra routine so much that they don't just change a step they replace it with hiphop steps. evolution is building on top of your origins, example i gave before was changing how you do fumaniya like you guys did with RU bhangra, replacing it with the crop walk doesn't mean your evolving.

 

[bhangra_101]

crip*

 

[Jacquizz Rogers]

the only time they don't do bhangra is 1 gimmick at 4:32 and that came out nice too

so when RU bhangra does the cripwalk, a non-bhangra move, for phumniya (which btw i don't remember when they did, but i'll take your word for it) you fault them and criticize the evolution of bhangra. but here when empire does a non-bhangra move, but you think it "comes out nice", you don't have a problem.


to me that makes no sense.

 

[bhangra_101]

i never said routers does the crip walk i said that they change their style of fumaniya which is being creative and evolving the original fumaniya, but if a TEAM any team was to do the crip walk in place of fumaniya it isn't an evolution its a hip hop step in a bhangra routine...




and jacquizz as i stated earlier i don't have a problem with a team throwing in a gimmick or a non bhangra move here or there but when majority of the routine is non bhangra and its at a bhangra competition there is a problem, they have other competitions for that... fusion,

 

[mithu]

i never said routers does the crip walk i said that they change their style of fumaniya which is being creative and evolving the original fumaniya, but if a TEAM any team was to do the crip walk in place of fumaniya it isn't an evolution its a hip hop step in a bhangra routine...




and jacquizz as i stated earlier i don't have a problem with a team throwing in a gimmick or a non bhangra move here or there but when majority of the routine is non bhangra and its at a bhangra competition there is a problem, they have other competitions for that... fusion,

please show me a bhangra team where more than 50% of the routine is hiphop moves.

 

[jfried]

jagmeet I'm sure u saw the video and performance from bhangra empire, note they did do stunts and gimmicks but i can say that other than 3 parts of their performance every step they did was bhangra even when they played nusrat fateh and the american music the steps were bhangra steps




Bhangra Empire @ Bruin Bhangra 2012


watch @ 4:12


the only time they don't do bhangra is 1 gimmick at 4:32 and that came out nice too


the thing is a lot of new teams have changed the bhangra routine so much that they don't just change a step they replace it with hiphop steps. evolution is building on top of your origins, example i gave before was changing how you do fumaniya like you guys did with RU bhangra, replacing it with the crop walk doesn't mean your evolving.

I have literally no idea how to respond to this. Like, seriously, what?

Don't get me wrong, I like Empire, but one of the biggest knocks that their detractors throw against them is that they're not folk enough. I don't think this criticism really matters, but jeez, man. Empire is a quote unquote Modern team. And frankly, if you're concerned with pervasive gimmicks and you call out AEG on it (as you did in your original post), you cannot possibly give Empire a pass.

It sounds more to me like this "where did real bhangra go?" argument is more of a "where did all of the teams that danced like I liked to see them dance go?" Empire's Empire, and as much as random teams all over the place want to, their style cannot be duplicated or recycled. And honestly, most teams don't want to at this point. To a certain extent, the cutting edge of competition bhangra has sort of moved on. People want to emulate SGPD or another different type of team now.

 

[yraparla]

There's really no point to this argument anymore. It's a matter of taste and preference. Everyone has said their peace, everyone has their own preference, and no one is going to suddenly change their mind. That's fine, and there's nothing wrong in that.


Trying to change this guys mind about bhangra is not necessary. He's not close-minded, he's simply at a different point on the bhangra-fusion scale. We have this argument EVERY year...the people rotate but the argument is the exact same and result is the exact same. It's alright for someone to wish bhangra was more folk, and it's alright for bhangra to move past that. Discussing is a wonderful social interaction, but I think we're really just at a point where we want to convert this guy and just talking for our own sake, and not the arguments. His point can't be refuted, it's a preference, so don't try to.


I miss Summy. At least it was interesting then

 

[Nirpaal]

Correct me if I'm wrong... but majority of the people who bring these topics up aren't in the circuit right now are they? (i.e. non-CURRENT dancer, dholi, DJ, or any other CURRENT affiliation). Personally, I feel like that's what causes these arguments, you get people who were in the circuit from like 2006-2008 watching bhangra now and getting pissed off about it because the current generation "ruined" it. It's the same reason why any sports veterans get pissed off at today's athletes for being too flashy. You look at this thread and you see that majority of the people arguing for modern bhangra are the one's that are currently in the circuit and know the thought process behind going to competitions these days. Just thought I'd point that out.

 

[jfried]

So, the tl;dr version of this thread, then.

Person A: OMG THIS ISN'T FOLK ENOUGH
Persons B-Z: WHATEVER, BHANGRA IS SUBJECTIVE AND WE LIKE THE FAIR EXCHANGE OF IDEAS
Person A: NO BUT IT ISN'T FOLK LIKE BHANGRA EMPIRE IS
Persons B-Z: <awkward silence>

Moral of the story: everything is subjective, go have fun, dance like bosses and just do you.

 

[razorhedge]

So, the tl;dr version of this thread, then.

Person A: OMG THIS ISN'T FOLK ENOUGH
Persons B-Z: WHATEVER, BHANGRA IS SUBJECTIVE AND WE LIKE THE FAIR EXCHANGE OF IDEAS
Person A: NO BUT IT ISN'T FOLK LIKE BHANGRA EMPIRE IS
Persons B-Z: <awkward silence>

Moral of the story: everything is subjective, go have fun, dance like bosses and just do you.

+1000


This applies to music , dance or any other trade that is meant to be 'entertaining'

 

[HarjitSingh]

Are you really from Punjab University, Patiala?? ???

 

[GSingh]

Are you really from Punjab University, Patiala?? ???

If there was such a thing

 

[Pankaja]

Are you really from Punjab University, Patiala?? ???

I've been wondering that through this whole conversation...

 

[bhangra_101]

http://punjabiuniversity.ac.in/pbiuniweb/index.html




thas punjab uni patiala and no i danced for them i am in the states now.


BTW i not once said that do traditional all live folk bhangra, but i did state that do bhangra and not hip hop. do stunts that make people say wow not wtf or just take up time.


i didn't say empire isn't modern but if u watch their video they don't have a segment where the lights are off and some1 is moving a ball of light in the air back and forth which has nothing at all to do with bhangra hell the person isn't even dancing just moving their hands back and forth unless it is interpretive dance... in their previous competitions they had a gimmick with the lasers which wasn't too bad cause they actually danced while hitting the lasers up but when i compare empire to them i stated that all of empires moves were bhangra steps. AEG has used hip hop steps before

 

[Jacquizz Rogers]

do stunts that make people say wow not wtf or just take up time.

lol