Chairs or No Chairs?

[Summy]

Parul brought up the simialrities between we pray, and I think there are a lot.

This is bound to bring up an argument, or something else, because some BTF members cant have a conversation without yelling that somone is RACIST when we are all talking about south asians.

But my cousin brought this thought to me, and I found it interesting and whether it was a coincidence or something consciously done.

You notice that when sikhs pray, we close our hands and pray while muslims open their hands are pray. Did you notice that sikhs write left to right, and muslims write right to left. Did you notice that sikhs historically would shave their beard and keep their mustaches while muslims shave their mustaches and keep their beards? Sikhs pray to all directions as the same, muslims pray to the west.

Please dont be offended, just sharing something someone told me.

 

[pluthra]

Parul brought up the simialrities between we pray, and I think there are a lot.

This is bound to bring up an argument, or something else, because some BTF members cant have a conversation without yelling that somone is RACIST when we are all talking about south asians.

But my cousin brought this thought to me, and I found it interesting and whether it was a coincidence or something consciously done.

You notice that when sikhs pray, we close our hands and pray while muslims open their hands are pray. Did you notice that sikhs write left to right, and muslims write right to left. Did you notice that sikhs historically would shave their beard and keep their mustaches while muslims shave their mustaches and keep their beards? Sikhs pray to all directions as the same, muslims pray to the west.

Please dont be offended, just sharing something someone told me.

ummm I dont kno entirely were ur going with this but at the same time i do....its trying to show how tolerant sikhism is okk i just wanna c if i can get this

closed hands vs. open hands (kind of like folding ur shoulders and not folding-shows how acceptive you are to what people have to bring and god specifically in prayer), but then sikhs praying to all directions vs. muslims praying to the west (shows their tolerance and how theyve broaden their horizons).....so both have showed in the way they pray some areas where they seem to display tolerance and at other times not

interesting thought to think about summy, but then again how many people really question why they pray in a certain way...or hey an even more radical thought why do we pray or what are the intentions behind our prayers (are they really in respect to god or what?)

 

[Kamran786]

I hate coming off as a hyper politically correct individual but how do masjids and churches tie into all of this?

Yeah I think you need to calm down on the sensitivity there. Gurdwaras and all other religious institutions have decisions on how to make the people who attend their place most at home as possible. In Islam and Christanity, for that matter Judaism and other religions, there is no significance in relation to their holy scripture and where one should be seated. For members of a Gurdwara committee to possibly think about adhereing to what happens in mosques and chruches, ignores something distinct to our religious community, and distinct to our religion. Regarding this issue, there is something that seperates us from muslims and christans, and it should be adhered to.

Summy,

I am not going to calm down when decent and intelligent people make incorrect statements about my religion. As a person trying to educate you about my religion I'll tell you that according to our scriptures we MUST sit on the ground in the Masjid UNLESS you are old,handicap,etc.

At the Masjid when we break our fast we SIT on the ground as equals. At the Masjid when we listen to the sermons we SIT on the ground as equals.

Our scipture should always be above us when not in use. Of course it may be at the same level when someone is sitting on the rgound and reciting it. So there is a relation between the individual and our Holy Quran. These are all adherences to our holy texts.

This is only for your future reference so you don't make the same false statement about Islam on BTF.

 

[Kamran786]

Parul brought up the simialrities between we pray, and I think there are a lot.

This is bound to bring up an argument, or something else, because some BTF members cant have a conversation without yelling that somone is RACIST when we are all talking about south asians.

But my cousin brought this thought to me, and I found it interesting and whether it was a coincidence or something consciously done.

You notice that when sikhs pray, we close our hands and pray while muslims open their hands are pray. Did you notice that sikhs write left to right, and muslims write right to left. Did you notice that sikhs historically would shave their beard and keep their mustaches while muslims shave their mustaches and keep their beards? Sikhs pray to all directions as the same, muslims pray to the west.

Please dont be offended, just sharing something someone told me.

Yes we have plenty in common but as you said we have plenty of differences,mainly trivial differences. Thats the deal with a lot of religions. Their primary tenets are similar but there are many smaller differences.
For example Sikh and Islamic faiths both adhere to one god,have their different leaders (Prophet Muhammad,10 Gurus,etc.), Both preach love and peace,Both advocate no drinking alcohol,no consuming drugs,etc.

And than there are the million differences. However I have a preference to find similarities between my religion and other religions.

 

[Summy]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, what?

Why are you going on this rampage that has nothing to do with what I said. First off that equality is misinforming to people. I am extremely well read on islam and its tenents, and if you disagree, lets talk. First off, sitting as equals, when you are men. Women are supposed to sit behind men. Secondly, women are not supposed to be in masjids as it is better for a woman to keep their home as a masjid.

Secondly, dont try this religiously centered rhetoric with em, because I tell by your understanding of sikhi and your statements, you are probably talking to the wrong person. The Koran is supposed to be put in a high placing, but in relation to a person there is not set distinction. IE- In sikhi, we sleep below Guru Ji, when moving Guru Ji, we place guru ji above our head, when reading, guru ji is placed on a table and one sits on the ground reading Guru ji. No scripture in any reliigoin is supposed to be on the ground or eye level, it is how one acts within that religious setting is what is different.

Sikhism and Islam basic tenents are the same? How can you say that? Let ME educate YOU, so YOU dont make false statements on BTF. Dont try this, they both preach love, and peace. Yeah, so does Scientology. Every religion does. The tenents of islam and sikhism, the basic tenents, that underly the religion are completly different.

For example, Islam is a abrahamic religion, a religion that has its descence from the book of abraham, or the testament. Sikhism is a Dharmic religion, whose ideals come from Dharma orginated in India, whose gurus practiced Dharmic thoughts. In sikhism, we believe in the atma, we believe that the atma is the forever living entity that travels beyond death. We believe that each life source is the same, and because as sikhs we dont believe in the body, we dont eat meat, as we value each soul as the same. While in Islam there are mentions of the soul, practices such as burial, and eating halal meat dispicts the difference in thought.

As sikhs, we believe in Karma, and Reincarnation which are the basics for doing good. Prophets has some define them may incline a representation of god, whereas sikhs dont believe in that, we believe in messangers of gods word. One of the things that guru nanak dev ji spoke against was pilgrimages. Hajj is essential to every muslim.

An ultimate sin in Sikhism is conversion or preaching. In sikhi we believe that one should find themselves to sikhi either through their karmic cycle, or through their own routes. As sikhs, we do not convert, we do not do anything as such. In islam, thats completly different. In Islam, conversion is accepted and even glorified. It goes deeper, in Sikhism, Guru Nanak Dev Ji taught us that judgement is wrong. That even judging the pracitces of another way of life is incorrect, and implies ahankar, and egotism. In islam, there is an underlying thought that all other ways of life, be it religion or not, is inherently incorrect, and therefore, converstion is preached, as teaching one the right way.

You said such a uninvolved answer which you need to develope more. This is not your university tutorial, and your not speaking to someone who watches youtube videos to form their opinion.

You said the BASIC TENENTS OF SIKHISM AND ISLAM ARE THE SAME. Thats horribly incorrect, and offensive to both sikhs and muslims. I am not saying one is right over the other, but to say that shows an incredibly ignorant thought process.


Please Kamran, the next time you want to play that religious superiority and teaching religion to someone, make sure you teach it to someone with a little less understanding than what you are trying to push forth.

 

[Kamran786]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, what?

Why are you going on this rampage that has nothing to do with what I said. First off that equality is misinforming to people. I am extremely well read on islam and its tenents, and if you disagree, lets talk. First off, sitting as equals, when you are men. Women are supposed to sit behind men. Secondly, women are not supposed to be in masjids as it is better for a woman to keep their home as a masjid.

Secondly, dont try this religiously centered rhetoric with em, because I tell by your understanding of sikhi and your statements, you are probably talking to the wrong person. The Koran is supposed to be put in a high placing, but in relation to a person there is not set distinction. IE- In sikhi, we sleep below Guru Ji, when moving Guru Ji, we place guru ji above our head, when reading, guru ji is placed on a table and one sits on the ground reading Guru ji. No scripture in any reliigoin is supposed to be on the ground or eye level, it is how one acts within that religious setting is what is different.

Sikhism and Islam basic tenents are the same? How can you say that? Let ME educate YOU, so YOU dont make false statements on BTF. Dont try this, they both preach love, and peace. Yeah, so does Scientology. Every religion does. The tenents of islam and sikhism, the basic tenents, that underly the religion are completly different.

For example, Islam is a abrahamic religion, a religion that has its descence from the book of abraham, or the testament. Sikhism is a Dharmic religion, whose ideals come from Dharma orginated in India, whose gurus practiced Dharmic thoughts. In sikhism, we believe in the atma, we believe that the atma is the forever living entity that travels beyond death. We believe that each life source is the same, and because as sikhs we dont believe in the body, we dont eat meat, as we value each soul as the same. While in Islam there are mentions of the soul, practices such as burial, and eating halal meat dispicts the difference in thought.

As sikhs, we believe in Karma, and Reincarnation which are the basics for doing good. Prophets has some define them may incline a representation of god, whereas sikhs dont believe in that, we believe in messangers of gods word. One of the things that guru nanak dev ji spoke against was pilgrimages. Hajj is essential to every muslim.

An ultimate sin in Sikhism is conversion or preaching. In sikhi we believe that one should find themselves to sikhi either through their karmic cycle, or through their own routes. As sikhs, we do not convert, we do not do anything as such. In islam, thats completly different. In Islam, conversion is accepted and even glorified. It goes deeper, in Sikhism, Guru Nanak Dev Ji taught us that judgement is wrong. That even judging the pracitces of another way of life is incorrect, and implies ahankar, and egotism. In islam, there is an underlying thought that all other ways of life, be it religion or not, is inherently incorrect, and therefore, converstion is preached, as teaching one the right way.

You said such a uninvolved answer which you need to develope more. This is not your university tutorial, and your not speaking to someone who watches youtube videos to form their opinion.

You said the BASIC TENENTS OF SIKHISM AND ISLAM ARE THE SAME. Thats horribly incorrect, and offensive to both sikhs and muslims. I am not saying one is right over the other, but to say that shows an incredibly ignorant thought process.


Please Kamran, the next time you want to play that religious superiority and teaching religion to someone, make sure you teach it to someone with a little less understanding than what you are trying to push forth.

Summy,

I applaud you for learning about Islam, but I am not here to state differences between our religions. I was simply talking about the relation between one and the Holy Quran and show how many tenets of Sikhism and Islam are similar.

You said the BASIC TENENTS OF SIKHISM AND ISLAM ARE THE SAME. Thats horribly incorrect, and offensive to both sikhs and muslims. I am not saying one is right over the other, but to say that shows an incredibly ignorant thought process.

I put an emphasis on the word SIMILAR which is DIFFERENT from SAME. as you have accused me of saying Islam and Sikhism have the same tenets. I definitely did not say that.

I am not intending to pose any sort of religious superiority over you. If you feel that way I apologize, it is not my intention. You just wrote 3 paragraphs about how different Sikhism and Islam are. I seek similarities between myself and others rather than extracting the differences.

I do not see why you are attacking my knowledge of Sikhism when I have not tried talking about it yet. I'd rather have a talk from which we can both learn rather than have a talk like this.

By the way, whatever I said about my religion in the previous post is true.

I don't see why you are getting worked up enough to insult me and tell me that I don't know enough about my religion. I don't believe you are the one to pass a judgement on that as we have never met and discussed Islam in depth.

 

[Nikhil]

Moderator's Note: Hey guys, I'm loving the discussion. Please though, lets not get agitated and lose cool. Thanks, and happy posting!

 

[Summy]

Dont worry Kamran everything is cool. No judgement was meant to be passed. I hope you werent offended, it wasnt my intent brother.

 

[Kamran786]

Dont worry Kamran everything is cool. No judgement was meant to be passed. I hope you werent offended, it wasnt my intent brother.

It's cool. Anyways, now I know why people really should sit on the ground at the Gurdwara. THe Gurdwara that I pay a visit to every now and than does the whole chair thing and it actually caused a rift between the community here. I guess I can't blame that. Can't and shouldn't change the religion to fit an individual's needs. If the religion requires sitting on the ground for people than there definitely shouldn't be any chairs(Unless an individual really cannot sit on the ground)