Discussion on Pagh issues during a Performance

[justAguy]

I would expect better from a Virsa guy, first thing you teach a dancer when he gets a pagh on is to never let it unravel and look like a fool. Second is to never let it fall to ground, go offstage and place it somewhere or hand it off then come back

that's what im talking about ... he just lets it sit there on the floor, instead of finding a place to put it. not cool.

thats messed up....disrespect

Disrespectful ???!! LOL.

Faking a smile to extremely loud songs about fighting and sex is enough of mockery of what a pagg in our cultural context signifies, so please don’t talk about upholding the virtues of a shiny piece of cloth. Guess who DIDN’T eat dead chickens battered in gravy when food was being served to us … guess who always rambles about how we SHOULDN’T dance to songs like panga … guess who sacrifices Saturday and Sunday mornings to travel 20 miles by mass transit to serve food at the soup kitchen … guess who leaves the second performances are over to NOT endure the entirely predictable senseless and futile brawls that foray into after parties … guess who went home right after the performance to spend time with family … that’s right, me, the little pink kid who so horribly and rudely threw his pagg off and disrespected it. Before you say OMG THAT’S SO DISRESPECTFUL, you should know who you’re talking about.

It’s in the middle of an fn bhangra performance. I think bhangra itself is a contamination of our so called ‘culture’, I really wasn’t planning out in my head hmmmm what should I do with my pagg should I keep jumping around to violent songs or should I step aside and say a prayer and move my turbin that has already been ridiculed every bhangra competition we go to. Wake up idiots, there’s nothing Sikhi about bhangra (I don’t know if you meant disrespect in a religious context, but I’m assuming you did).

The pagg is symbolic of things half of you don’t understand, I’m still struggling to figure out how people who spend their weekends going to bhangra competitions and seeing them as a showcase of ‘Punjabi culture’ have the credibility to call the improper removal of a turbin disrespectful. I didn’t mean to throw it off, while dancing it was coming higher and higher and was on the verge of slipping off, I was just going to keep dancing with it on, but during dhamaal, Sunny yelled and told me to get it off, I was doing what my captain instructed me to, cuz we work as a team. While attempting to keep it OFF of the visible stage, it slipped out of my hand, and I had to move on.
Faizan, people accidentally stepping on something lying on the stage doesn’t mean they are trampling all over it, it’s not like we’re intentionally stomping on the ideals of a turbin.

Before you idiots propagate the idea that a shiny piece of cloth deserves pampering, analyze the situation, and educate yourselves. You all take part in the bhangra community, the things that go on within the bhangra community completely undermine the virtues that you people imagine yourselves holding on to.

And thank you Jasmeet paji, it did slip.

Also, shout out to Columbia, they were great, thanks for taking care of us n thanks for the gift basket n the cake, you guys were awesome, great show !!

 

[faizan]

Sonny, everyone has their idea of respect, if you don't think what happen was disrespectful, that's cool...no one should force their views on others. I think why everyone is upset is that the pugh is seen as a symbol of respect in punjabi culture, and stepping on it would translate to disrespect...but again, no one should judge anyone as a person because of a mistake...

 

[kinnell]

I would expect better from a Virsa guy, first thing you teach a dancer when he gets a pagh on is to never let it unravel and look like a fool. Second is to never let it fall to ground, go offstage and place it somewhere or hand it off then come back

that's what im talking about ... he just lets it sit there on the floor, instead of finding a place to put it. not cool.

thats messed up....disrespect

Disrespectful ???!! LOL.

Faking a smile to extremely loud songs about fighting and sex is enough of mockery of what a pagg in our cultural context signifies, so please don’t talk about upholding the virtues of a shiny piece of cloth. Guess who DIDN’T eat dead chickens battered in gravy when food was being served to us … guess who always rambles about how we SHOULDN’T dance to songs like panga … guess who sacrifices Saturday and Sunday mornings to travel 20 miles by mass transit to serve food at the soup kitchen … guess who leaves the second performances are over to NOT endure the entirely predictable senseless and futile brawls that foray into after parties … guess who went home right after the performance to spend time with family … that’s right, me, the little pink kid who so horribly and rudely threw his pagg off and disrespected it. Before you say OMG THAT’S SO DISRESPECTFUL, you should know who you’re talking about.

It’s in the middle of an fn bhangra performance. I think bhangra itself is a contamination of our so called ‘culture’, I really wasn’t planning out in my head hmmmm what should I do with my pagg should I keep jumping around to violent songs or should I step aside and say a prayer and move my turbin that has already been ridiculed every bhangra competition we go to. Wake up idiots, there’s nothing Sikhi about bhangra (I don’t know if you meant disrespect in a religious context, but I’m assuming you did).

The pagg is symbolic of things half of you don’t understand, I’m still struggling to figure out how people who spend their weekends going to bhangra competitions and seeing them as a showcase of ‘Punjabi culture’ have the credibility to call the improper removal of a turbin disrespectful. I didn’t mean to throw it off, while dancing it was coming higher and higher and was on the verge of slipping off, I was just going to keep dancing with it on, but during dhamaal, Sunny yelled and told me to get it off, I was doing what my captain instructed me to, cuz we work as a team. While attempting to keep it OFF of the visible stage, it slipped out of my hand, and I had to move on.
Faizan, people accidentally stepping on something lying on the stage doesn’t mean they are trampling all over it, it’s not like we’re intentionally stomping on the ideals of a turbin.

Before you idiots propagate the idea that a shiny piece of cloth deserves pampering, analyze the situation, and educate yourselves. You all take part in the bhangra community, the things that go on within the bhangra community completely undermine the virtues that you people imagine yourselves holding on to.

And thank you Jasmeet paji, it did slip.

Also, shout out to Columbia, they were great, thanks for taking care of us n thanks for the gift basket n the cake, you guys were awesome, great show !!

+1

Pagh in Bhangra = Cultural Pagh, NOT Sikh Pagh. I've come to the realization that confusing the two and thinking that anyone who wears a Pagh is wearing it always for Sikh purposes is MORE ignorant than someone who simply does not know the value of the Sikh pagh.

Yes, the Sikh pagh has value and should be respected. People have died for the Sikh Pagh. But who said that the pagh tied on my head for a cultural dance is all of a sudden sikhi when the wearer is not? No one. Keep religion out of bhangra. And when it comes to the cultural pagh, do respect it. I avoid touching paper/books with my feet. But shit happens, mistakes occur and some things are out of our control. I find it a bit ridiculous that we get mobs of people form ready to lynch someone when something like this happens. The intent was not disrespect.

 

[yraparla]

Thanks Swi for clarifying yourself. It was just for fun

np man, my issue with it is honestly more about how it looks to dance with a pagh unraveling (which is why for an experienced team like Virsa I said people weren't expecting it and were jarred a bit).

we always tell our dancers to take it off before it becomes a distraction. I'd rather the dancer leave for 5 seconds (and that's really all it takes) and come back and focus on dancing instead of having it slowly come apart. First, because it's a distraction to them, and second it's a distraction to the audience.

So in my opinion, someone who dances with a pagh covering there eyes and falling apart (and I've seen this actually happen so many times) is NOT doing his team a favor or being a badass dancer by not going off stage. You're hurting your team in this context because in a competitive setting it's distracting judges from formations, choreo, nakhra, etc. That's all. The fact that this point of view is congruent with those who see it as disrespectful is just further affirmation that it's probably a good position to take.

I agree that a bhangra pagh should not be seen in any way related to a sikh pagh at the risk of devaluing the latter, but it is what it is. You don't show your shorts in bhangra, you dont' step on paghs. That's how it goes and you just gotta play by the rules

 

[Waleed]

After reading Jabar's response which I thought was appropriate (besides the sentence in punjabi), I thought this matter should be squashed. But along comes "justAguy", all you have to do is apologize or acknowledge your mistake. Instead you chose to write a long essay trying to convince us you're actually a decent guy? You spend time with the family, volunteer at a soup kitchen? Any decent human being does that - that has nothing to do with throwing a pagg on stage.

The name of your team is "Virsa" ... um think about that for a minute. I personally know some great members on this team who are committed to spreading punjabi culture and they wouldn't endorse your actions. And I'm sure your captain (Sunny) meant to take off your pagg nicely and place it off stage, any bhangra captain with common sense knows that.

I just can't believe we're in 2009 and we still have people treating paggs like that during performances. All this required was a "I'm sorry, won't happen again" since its an unintentional mistake, instead you lecture every one on how we don't know true punjabi culture. Don't assume stuff about us (by calling members on this forum "idiots") and we won't assume anything about you.

Kinnell - a pagg has immense importance in Sikhi but even outside of Sikhi, a pagg has great value and has a connection to punjabi culture, however this is a long discussion by itself.

 

[oJaLa]

Sonny, if you have such a problem with the songs your teams dances to or the things that they do after practice, why do you dance with them? That's kinda hypocritical to call your OWN TEAM out like that, not to mention just messed up

 

[G. Sidhu]

I would expect better from a Virsa guy, first thing you teach a dancer when he gets a pagh on is to never let it unravel and look like a fool. Second is to never let it fall to ground, go offstage and place it somewhere or hand it off then come back

that's what im talking about ... he just lets it sit there on the floor, instead of finding a place to put it. not cool.

thats messed up....disrespect

oye hoye .. dekheyo kite daffa 302 da naa laa deyo lol.

anyways yes a pagh shudnt come off... its teams responsibility to tie it properly and if it accident happen ... team shud know how to handle it... but its of no surprise to us that how we get all sorts of surprises on stage... wid pagh coming off... sapps breaking... fuman gettin stuck ..n wt not... we never expect it cud happen to us... but when it does.. it gets very nerve wrecking n we r usually dumbfounded by it n act as quickly as possible to do wtever we can while u r performing in front of audience.

plus the guy didnt deliberatily took d pagh off n kicked it or wtsoever... wtever mishaps happened... the members were unconscious of it....

my whole point is tht ppl can actually respond in a positive manner that how that is not appropriate, and it is understood how the member wz caught off guard but from next time on plz keep in mind blah blah... instead of how the world is bout to end or somethin.

n turbo bai ... sher ik vaar fer suno

 

[faizan]

I did assume that Sonny didn't like Chicken though, sorry, but apparently eating gravy battered chicken is wrong.

 

[Waleed]

and it is understood how the member wz caught off guard but from next time on plz keep in mind blah blah... instead of how the world is bout to end or somethin.

No. The world is about to end. jk jk sidhu, its not 2012 yet

You're right, it can happen to the best of us and it's an honest mistake - understood. I was turned off when I saw a 4-5 para long response without a shred of humility and no sign of an apology.

 

[Gurbir Singh Aulakh]

After reading Jabar's response which I thought was appropriate (besides the sentence in punjabi), I thought this matter should be squashed. But along comes "justAguy", all you have to do is apologize or acknowledge your mistake. Instead you chose to write a long essay trying to convince us you're actually a decent guy? You spend time with the family, volunteer at a soup kitchen? Any decent human being does that - that has nothing to do with throwing a pagg on stage.

The name of your team is "Virsa" ... um think about that for a minute. I personally know some great members on this team who are committed to spreading punjabi culture and they wouldn't endorse your actions. And I'm sure your captain (Sunny) meant to take off your pagg nicely and place it off stage, any bhangra captain with common sense knows that.

I just can't believe we're in 2009 and we still have people treating paggs like that during performances. All this required was a "I'm sorry, won't happen again" since its an unintentional mistake, instead you lecture every one on how we don't know true punjabi culture. Don't assume stuff about us (by calling members on this forum "idiots") and we won't assume anything about you.

Kinnell - a pagg has immense importance in Sikhi but even outside of Sikhi, a pagg has great value and has a connection to punjabi culture, however this is a long discussion by itself.

+1

 

[G. Sidhu]

and it is understood how the member wz caught off guard but from next time on plz keep in mind blah blah... instead of how the world is bout to end or somethin.

No. The world is about to end. jk jk sidhu, its not 2012 yet

You're right, it can happen to the best of us and it's an honest mistake - understood. I was turned off when I saw a 4-5 para long response without a shred of humility and no sign of an apology.

oh mannn i hope i get to do another performance b4 2012 lollzz

 

[PINDER KORDA SINGH]

shit happens life sucks we all gonna die....

 

[[Sher] Imran]

Dropping paggs is SO not traditional guys

 

[Jabar Jung]

Dropping paggs is SO not traditional guys

Jadon tere saron da tel laa ke paya na, fer dassi traditional si ke nai.

 

[PINDER KORDA SINGH]

Oh NAIIII

 

[Sunny Monster Kanwar]

Dropping paggs is SO not traditional guys

fake turley arent traditional either


last but def not least ..

get to my god dam level and then comment back on this thread!

 

[[Sher] Imran]

I totally agree that fake turley arent traditional, whats your point? You've clearly missed what I was saying, so frankly i dont think im interested in getting to your "god dam level"

 

[Sunny Monster Kanwar]

ok good

lock the thread now

 

[Sunny Monster Kanwar]

i wasnt talking to you imran. and for everyone else let it go now .. thanks for the criticism bad or good. enjoy the performance see... i will put up the mix

 

[Rajbir]

It’s in the middle of an fn bhangra performance. I think bhangra itself is a contamination of our so called ‘culture’,I really wasn’t planning out in my head hmmmm what should I do with my pagg should I keep jumping around to violent songs or should I step aside and say a prayer and move my turbin that has already been ridiculed every bhangra competition we go to. Wake up idiots, there’s nothing Sikhi about bhangra (I don’t know if you meant disrespect in a religious context, but I’m assuming you did).

Before you idiots propagate the idea that a shiny piece of cloth deserves pampering, analyze the situation, and educate yourselves. You all take part in the bhangra community, the things that go on within the bhangra community completely undermine the virtues that you people imagine yourselves holding on to.

You are right. We dont know you and we should not be so judgmental, especially if we are negative. For that i apologize. I just assumed that every individual who does bhangra already knows the guidelines on what to do when certain situations go wrong. Maybe this will be a heads up for everyone to educate themselves, and their teams. And once again im sorry for judging you.

With that being said. What the hell are you talking about?? Bhangra is a contamination of our culture?? Bhangra is a celebration of the punjabi culture. Yeah, teams in the U.S. take it to an extreme with hip hop and violent songs, but calling the art of bhangra itself a contamination? Go to Punjab and tell teams like Shiv Chand (kids that do bhangra for the sheer joy of celebrating their culture) or Khalsa College that they are contaminating their culture. Your opinion is your opinion, but you seem like a douche coming off so harsh. And honestly, maybe if you would have prayed to the pagg and put it aside, you and your team would have gotten praise upon praise instead of criticism. Im not trying to attack you, I'm sure you were in the moment and didnt think it through, but things like this need to be addressed before hand, and this should be done by ALL teams. And you shouldn't devalue a pagg either, in any context. A bhangra pagg might not be sikhni, but it emulates a sikh symbol. Whether your sikh or not, if you do bhangra, and you wear a pagg, understand that while it is not religious, it resembles something that is. And in an effort to not offend anyone of that religion, EXTREME respect and gratitude should be given to that symbol. Bhangra might not be sikhni, but there was a reason bhangra USED to be done with full beards, and paggs. That was to give respect to punjab and the main religion and culture of that region. Yeah, maybe your shiny piece of cloth does not represent sikhism, but there is a piece of cloth somewhere that does. And simply because there are similarities, you should strive to be as respectful as possible, especially if your on a team names VIRSA.

And honestly dude, if you have such a opposition to the violent songs, then dont do bhangra, and dont jump around to those songs. Your on stage dancing to this stuff, but then you sit here and bash on it. I hope you realize that your bashing on your team as well. A simply apologize would have been nice, but you go on this rant, and make yourself look even more disrespectful, especially making these allegations about bhangra and the pagg. Ive done a million things wrong in my life, sometimes you look more like a man if you just say sorry and learn from it instead of lashing out.

I dont wear a pagg, nor am i the pinnacle of the sukh religion or even punjab. But i do have an immense amount of respect for people who do, and for my roots. Because of that, i do everything i can to please people who really do uphold our traditions and values. Maybe you dont agree with bhangra or the pagg, but there are pepole out there who would die for that shiny piece of cloth. For them, please be respectful.