feet touching props?

[sumeetj]

can i get a somewhat general opinion on this? i get confused when i see a performance from team A who gracefully moves a prop out of the way with their foot while dancing and people go crazy saying how sick that persons stage awareness is, but then if someone is setting up stage and softly nudges a prop over to its marker i see people being like "wow you dont know anything about bhangra".


ive also seen performances where a team will use their feet to kick a prop up or something (examples are bmw at bruin i believe a few years ago and fauj at bayside this year), but some times people say wow thats disrespectful and sometimes they dont care.


i personally feel like if a prop is moved with someones foot and it wasn't done maliciously (as to purposely show disrespect, anger, etc) then its straight, but thats just my opinion. i just wanted to know because ive been confused about it and how judges would handle it, etc.

 

[mithu]

People will always have something to say. As long as you show respect to everything the dancer uses, and has on then they shouldnt have a problem.

 

[faizan]

that's because people on the circuit have no idea wtf they are talking about, and just want to emit the aura of being traditional and respectful...


touching your feet to daangs and saaps is disrespectful? show me where this comes from, and historically how it's been followed...and if you give me an example of your uncle saying it, i don't give a shit, lol.


touching the floor, i get, touching the dhol, i get, respecting the pugh, i get..,.


but in my book, that's where it ends. all the other stuff is fair game for feet, mouth or ass, whatever you want...a daang is a stick used to walk in the fields (it touches dirt, shit, and other rubbage), but since it's on a stage we're supposed to somehow treat it with respect? WHAT?


this has always been such a silly ass proposition...

 

[Ashveer]

Also, girls can slap their inner thighs now, right?

 

[Jimmy]

Yea we never did it to show disrespect. I honestly don't even know whats "acceptable" to judges nowadays.

There was a time when dancers weren't even supposed to let the dangs touch the floor while dancing..

 

[mrchicity]

The issue lies with judging, as some judges are against it for some reason, and others may not care. As the judges change with time, notions of traditionality seem to change with it. In my opinion, as long as judges for a particular competition are consistent in what they make deductions for and they make those decisions known to teams prior to the competition day, it's all good. If teams know that touching props with feet will merit a deduction and they do it anyway, that's their own damn fault.

 

[Rip]

Also, girls can slap their inner thighs now, right?

we got called out for it at burgh this year, but i've seen plenty of successful teams do that. guess it depends on the judges at the competition.

 

[Waleed]

sumeetj,

This is a really good question and honestly, you won't get a black & white answer to this. Bhangra in North America is evolving and doesn't carry all the eastern traditions & values of this art form when performed in the west. In my personal experience, in Pakistan you wouldn't touch any item of significance (eg: a book, something you would put on your head, etc) with your feet. In some instances, even pointing the soles of your feet in someones direction while sitting down is considered disrespectful. In my conversations with my friends from India, the same is true across the border.

A good friend of mine who trained and performed with a Bhangra team in India told me that as a team they would try their level best not to touch props with their feet. Usually in the beginning of every practice, they would place all the props & dhol in the middle of their practice space and do Ardaas i.e. a lot of respect is given to props. However, he also emphasized that during the routine, they would throw the props aside but again would try their best not to touch them with their feet.

You can draw your own conclusion as Bhangra has taken it's own life in North America and has been influenced by western values, eg: girls doing Bhangra, western influenced choreography, etc. To answer your question, personally I think as long as a dancer is respectful in their actions 'foot-to-prop' contact is ok. Personally, I'd prefer to use my hands to move a prop aside (if its in my way) versus using my feet.

Like I said in the beginning, there will be different schools of thought on this topic as the evolution is still underway and you're a part of it!

I think you answered your own question really well here:

i personally feel like if a prop is moved with someones foot and it wasn't done maliciously (as to purposely show disrespect, anger, etc) then its straight

 

[campy614]

Interesting question!

Personally, I'd rather see a team touch a prop with their foot in a non-disrespectful manner than to see props literally get thrown across the stage and hit the floor... that is, props get thrown across the stage with no intention of anyone catching said prop. For clarification, there's a huge difference between what I'm trying to describe and what teams like FCB, UNC and SGPD do during a routine with their props.

Here's another question, what about articles of clothing/accessories (articles of clothing that are NOT pagghs or hold any religious significance)? At I believe Bhangra Fever 1 or 2, after our ending song and right before our mela, I saw a phuman on the floor and moved it aside with my foot. One of my friends in the audience said that the minute I realized what exactly I was doing, he saw me mouth the word "SHIT" right before the segment started.

 

[Vijay]

that's because people on the circuit have no idea wtf they are talking about, and just want to emit the aura of being traditional and respectful...

touching your feet to daangs and saaps is disrespectful? show me where this comes from, and historically how it's been followed...and if you give me an example of your uncle saying it, i don't give a shit, lol.

touching the floor, i get, touching the dhol, i get, respecting the pugh, i get..,.

but in my book, that's where it ends. all the other stuff is fair game for feet, mouth or ass, whatever you want...a daang is a stick used to walk in the fields (it touches dirt, shit, and other rubbage), but since it's on a stage we're supposed to somehow treat it with respect? WHAT?


this has always been such a silly ass proposition...

+10.
it all comes down to personal opinion. at the end of the day, saaps, khundey, katos are pieces of wood, but the fact that they are used in a cultural context that has historical background with it, it's assumed that they should be treated with respect. as most ppl here know to some extent (as waleed touched on), south-asian culture sometimes frowns upon touching the feet to anything holding significance (books, coming into temple/mosque/someone's home, money even). some even say this is why hindus are supposed to sit "indian style" at temple (so as to not point toward the murtis). kind of went on a tangent there, but in the context of performing imo i dont think its a big deal, but to be safe then -->

i personally feel like if a prop is moved with someones foot and it wasn't done maliciously (as to purposely show disrespect, anger, etc) then its straight,

edit: theres also a double standard to this too - there have been plenty of youtube vids of teams from india that literally chuck their props to the side even off stage after using them, but no one really complains bc they are "legit folk india teams" and obviously they cannot be criticized. never seen them kick a prop off though

 

[kazminaut]

Maybe there's a safety aspect to it too? Coming from a raas background, stepping on a dropped dandiya is one of the most painful things to happen on stage, so teams try to (subtly) get it out of the way as quickly as possible. I would say that it'd be a priority to make sure someone doesn't slip and get hurt, so kicking or nudging something out of the way shouldn't be frowned upon. No?

 

[sdadoo15]

Personally, I'd rather see a team touch a prop with their foot in a non-disrespectful manner than to see props literally get thrown across the stage and hit the floor... that is, props get thrown across the stage with no intention of anyone catching said prop. For clarification, there's a huge difference between what I'm trying to describe and what teams like FCB, UNC and SGPD do during a routine with their props.

i couldn't agree more. personally, i get really annoyed when i see teams, especially during transitions, throw their khunde or saaps off stage from like the middle of stage. i think that is the most disrespectful thing to do (definitely a lot worse than sliding a prop off to the side with your foot if its in the way....)

 

[siddyp]

Because issues like this, girls slapping thighs, different wardrobe malfunctions, can be very opinionated and different among people and judges, I personally believe it should be a part of the competition committees responsibility to take part in making sure the teams know ahead of time what the selected judges think.

For BdM, we made sure the teams knew well in advance of the competition how they would be judged and what each section of the rubric meant, along with how certain issues such as this would be handled.

At MLIB, we made sure the teams knew what was up in the judges meeting on friday.

Either way, teams should know what they are up against.

 

[Ajay.H]

Competitions should make sure they pick judges that align with their rubric. Sometimes judges aren't picked until late in the game, but as soon as they are picked, I think it would be very considerate of the competition organizers to specifically address these issues with enough time before the competition that people can change things if they want to.

For teams, if you're going to be upset about the point or two docked, just be safe. If it's a traditional comp, don't do it. If it's more modern, use your judgement. For simpler things like girls slapping, just avoid it. I don't see it adding anything particular to the routine.

 

[VirD]

that's because people on the circuit have no idea wtf they are talking about, and just want to emit the aura of being traditional and respectful...


touching your feet to daangs and saaps is disrespectful? show me where this comes from, and historically how it's been followed...and if you give me an example of your uncle saying it, i don't give a shit, lol.


touching the floor, i get, touching the dhol, i get, respecting the pugh, i get..,.


but in my book, that's where it ends. all the other stuff is fair game for feet, mouth or ass, whatever you want...a daang is a stick used to walk in the fields (it touches dirt, shit, and other rubbage), but since it's on a stage we're supposed to somehow treat it with respect? WHAT?


this has always been such a silly ass proposition...

this is horrific! this gives us an example of no respect left in the circuit, lets make our own rules and play by them? If a person cannot respect props they are using i dont see the need for you to pretend like you are a bhangra god. It's all about doing what is cool now, bhangra is just a way for you to pretend like you have something to do. my opinion.

 

[J-Skeet]

Too be honest people always find something to say. If you know that your intentions weren't to be disrespectful, and you don't treat the props like you don't care about the (throwing them) then who cares. You can't please everyone if using your feet is a must then that what you have to do just do go around tossing your kundes.

 

[J-Skeet]

Too be honest people always find something to say. If you know that your intentions weren't to be disrespectful, and you don't treat the props like you don't care about the (throwing them) then who cares. You can't please everyone if using your feet is a must then that what you have to do just do go around tossing your kundes.

 

[Govind]

[SIZE=x-small]I would echo Waleed and Vijay here for the most part...I feel strongly about this so I will post here.[/SIZE][SIZE=x-small]I will be firm in saying that I will dock any team that touches a prop with their feet to move it out of the way. Agreed, no one does this with malicious intent, but it is indeed done out of ignorance. I believe it is very disrespectful and to say otherwise is to devalue the art form we practice. Would you touch your feet to a book (or even step over it?) to move it out of the way for your convenience...you would any day massage your mother's feet, but would you allow your sister or mother to touch yours? This argument doesn't just lend itself to women, books, or bhangra props...We spend countless hours with our props at practice, books at the library, weights at the gym, our laptops next to our beds. All benefit us in some way whether it be gyaan or shakti, knowledge or strength. Being profoundly lazy and instead using our feet to "move them out of the way" is indeed highly disrespectful. I don't see moving things with your feet as being different in the gym or in the temple or at practice - we must inculcate personal discipline in all three settings. Chucking props off the stage is hardly tactful either. To analyze this topic from the perspective of "we should respect bhangra props" is inherently flawed. It should only be analyzed from the perspective of what does it mean to touch something with your feet. For the above stated reasons, I would much rather see you pick up a broken prop and move it out of the way while distracting the audience from your performance, than kick it off to the side. If you were taught the cultural significance of doing so but still chose to kick-off your sapps, I'm sorry but I will gladly reexplain this to you at the feedback session.If you have enough respect for something you devote yourself to, why would you arbitrarily place it in a different category. I think that your post Faizan was quite misguided in this respect and I would request that you rethink your rather arbitrary distinctions. This is not about treating bhangra as some "mahaan" thing or "aura of being traditional," this is about fundamentally respecting something we all care for. "Bhangre nu rabb mannii phir de..." whether or not you believe that in the literal sense, some part of it should still reflect in your respect for the dance you do. PS - Touching feet as a sign of respect is hardly a "Hindu" phenomenon...[/SIZE]

 

[Govind]

df

 

[Jabar Jung]

[SIZE=x-small]I would echo Waleed and Vijay here for the most part...I feel strongly about this so I will post here.[/SIZE][SIZE=x-small]I will be firm in saying that I will dock any team that touches a prop with their feet to move it out of the way. Agreed, no one does this with malicious intent, but it is indeed done out of ignorance. I believe it is very disrespectful and to say otherwise is to devalue the art form we practice. Would you touch your feet to a book (or even step over it?) to move it out of the way for your convenience...you would any day massage your mother's feet, but would you allow your sister or mother to touch yours? This argument doesn't just lend itself to women, books, or bhangra props...We spend countless hours with our props at practice, books at the library, weights at the gym, our laptops next to our beds. All benefit us in some way whether it be gyaan or shakti, knowledge or strength. Being profoundly lazy and instead using our feet to "move them out of the way" is indeed highly disrespectful. I don't see moving things with your feet as being different in the gym or in the temple or at practice - we must inculcate personal discipline in all three settings. Chucking props off the stage is hardly tactful either. To analyze this topic from the perspective of "we should respect bhangra props" is inherently flawed. It should only be analyzed from the perspective of what does it mean to touch something with your feet. For the above stated reasons, I would much rather see you pick up a broken prop and move it out of the way while distracting the audience from your performance, than kick it off to the side. If you were taught the cultural significance of doing so but still chose to kick-off your sapps, I'm sorry but I will gladly reexplain this to you at the feedback session.If you have enough respect for something you devote yourself to, why would you arbitrarily place it in a different category. I think that your post Faizan was quite misguided in this respect and I would request that you rethink your rather arbitrary distinctions. This is not about treating bhangra as some "mahaan" thing or "aura of being traditional," this is about fundamentally respecting something we all care for. "Bhangre nu rabb mannii phir de..." whether or not you believe that in the literal sense, some part of it should still reflect in your respect for the dance you do. PS - Touching feet as a sign of respect is hardly a "Hindu" phenomenon...[/SIZE]

Thanks.
who remembers that bhangra cup episode when the team captains were judging? One of the team captains took points off because the team's band's heads weren't covered. When asked he said, they even practice with their heads covered. Thats how much they respect what they do. No one is going to stop you, do w/e the hell you want but then again if Govinda Govinda - Sarkar Raj..!! HD !! is judging, good luck lol.