Fire Missing From the Circuit

[scaplash]

Shout out to Howie and everyone who has responded so far in creating a discussion. I apologize if I bring up anything that's already been said on another thread, but as a part of the problem, I'd like to offer a few thoughts.


I can only speak for myself and my experiences as a captain last year of a "lesser known" collegiate team. One of the most heartbreaking things after being introduced to this dance and culture, soaking everything up and being inspired to add to it, was not receiving much feedback from the community. Collegiate teams will always be plagued with the same problems that are apparent every competition season, but it's incredibly discouraging to post and look down the list of videos from younger, smaller teams with a "lesser" presence on the circuit asking for feedback and critiques, and a large majority of them have 0 replies. To me the reason for this is two-fold: the retired dancers of the "golden age" understandably don't use the site anymore and don't have the time to send any critiques or feedback, and the current community of younger, less experienced dancers are either not confident enough to post a reply or critique or are waiting for someone else to do it - classic bystander effect. I'm guilty of it myself. We get it, we may suck, and it may be boring to watch our videos, but we'd appreciate something...I've seen a few posts about this before and I think the current active collegiate team community needs to make a better effort to support one another and post feedback.

Now this isn't to say these teams should rely solely on what the circuit thinks of them and lose the ability to create and think for themselves. But for a team trying not to be a cookie cutter team and establish a name on the circuit, any response is better than absolutely no response at all. Feedback doesn't have to be lengthy or profound, just a thoughtful reply, something more to go on than what a panel of 3 to 5 judges say at a competition. The posts on this thread before me have mentioned the caliber of current teams being too low to be invited to competitions, for them to push the envelope and take risks, to innovate and bring something new to the table. While absolutely valid points (although vague and recycled), and a part of the problem: it becomes frustrating to do so at a pace fast enough to keep up when not very many of our peers offer any other sort of response. (Many thanks to those that do post feedback, please don't stop!) Even a simple "sick set, keep it up" or "your jugni segment didn't work for me" whatever it may be....I think it'd be really helpful, and would inspire teams to push themselves and each other to "bring back the fire."


Additionally, although I get just as excited as the next person when I see a kick-ass line up posted for a higher tier competition (and I can only imagine the considerations and stress organizers have to go through to set all of that up), the opportunities for less experienced teams to get more experience seems to be dwindling. Yes, smaller regional competitions pop up every now and again and their presence seems to be increasing (thank you to those!!) but these chances are also knuckled out by the teams with a heavier influence on the circuit looking for an easy cash flow. It can get incredibly frustrating as a captain to motivate my group of younger dancers (who are still trying to figure out their lives and futures) to continue practicing and putting in these long hours when the majority of my team may not see an opportunity for their efforts to be worth it. Many of us have been fortunate enough to know what it feels like to perform and compete and be in the presence of our peers and legends. I encourage more competition organizers (and thanks to those already doing so) to throw younger teams a bone now and again so they can experience that indescribable feeling keeping the rest of us going. Plus with the added measure of fresh faces at mixers, new connections between teams, more support and feedback, potential new rivals, etc etc...then maybe the next competition or the year after, these teams will come back better than ever. Who knows?


I know there are many more aspects, sides and loops to this, especially from competition organizers trying to sell tickets and make their own efforts worth it too. I've only said my part from my experiences and maybe I'm being too hopeful and optimistic...I also know I can't speak for other collegiate or private teams, but I sincerely hope more people post and this discussion continues (especially from those on collegiate teams who have successfully made it, we look up to you!)

^I agree with just about everything that was said here. You don't have to go much farther than BIB to see how teams like Alamo City, MOB, Buckeye, Spartan have practically no comments-whereas a team like First Class-much more "well-known" and successful- gets such constructive feedback and support.
I had the same struggles when i would post Husky Bhangra's videos up-I'd have to really push to get some feedback and comments and even inboxed some of the more veteran dancers-never to really get feeedback.
And while I could probably spend some time to discuss more the "fire" missing from the circuit-I think at this point- a lot of the important points have been said and we need to focus on tangible solutions on how we can actually fix it-this discussion comes up every 6 months and we all agree that the fire is gone and bemoan Bhangra's state of affairs- and then we go back to our usual lives.
Some suggestions I have:
[list type=decimal]
[*]I feel like there are a lot of people that make accounts just so they can read/see attachments on BTF-but never actually to contribute. I think that there should be some minimum post limit for the month/year or the account gets deleted. There is no point having an account just to be a voyeur about it.
[*]We need more collegiate-only competitions. It helps foster a stronger collegiate community and opens the door for those newer teams to develop and grow. Blowout is a prime example that it can be successful-I think if we could get the organizers in this conversation to really illuminate how they have been able to run the competition successfully-that could help.
[*]This is a bit controversial-but I really liked when Elite 8 released judging rubrics way back in hte day and I think WBBC did it this past year. If you are aiming to be a legit comp-even if you're new- I don't think there is any harm in holding yourself accountable by posting the rubric. The videos will be up-the placings decided- and while not everyone will always agree, I think it helps newer teams to see those rubrics and develop them. It lets teams get a feel for what a good set looks like-what good energy looks like to a judge. You could look at a rubric and see that hey-this team pushed the limit in terms of style and form-but didn't get points docked-or they changed phumaniya choreo and the only reason it didnt work was lack of standardization. What I'm trying to say is that releasing rubrics can break down stigmas people have about deviating from traditionality.
[*]I think that we need more veterans like Kuntal and Mariam (only mentioning these two bc of how they helped my team personally). Kuntal judged us at Nashville and even after gave us some really in-depth advice which literally changed the way I look at sets and segments. And mariam has consistently given good feedback, and continues to help out on here with videos of betkas, and giving tips where she can.
[*]The team asking for feedback should discuss with the people giving feedback-nothing is set in stone when it comes to NA bhangra-if someone gives a critique, feel free to discuss with them on it-its gotta be a two way street.
[/list]


I'll edit this post if I come up with any more-these are all just ideas that I hope we can discuss and progress and try to get some tangible change out of all of this.

 

[hsdeol]

younger teams should def get more feedback on BTF, but that isnt what's going to ignite the fire. captains/coaches/dancers need to spend time making sets, come up with crazy ideas, and push limits

i can watch a video and say something like, "your teams form is off, execution wasnt great, your jhummar is stagnant" but a captain should be able to watch his/her own teams video and pick up on those things. It's also not up to BTF to choreo your set. The fire from back in the day came from teams constantly trying to one up each other (introduce elements into a routine that no one thought of before, intensity on comp weekends, etc)

ALSO- younger teams/teams trying to break out- you need to spend a lot of time on your tryout tape. make sure your tape is entertaining, clean, and really plays to the strengths of your team. Plan out a taping schedule and dont stop until its perfect.

if teams make better sets, competitions will get more interesting, circuit will heat up, and BTF will come alive

 

[scaplash]

I don't think its about BTF choreoing your set-but I think communal feedback can help bridge the gap between smaller collegiate teams and independent teams. I also think that there are times when collegiate teams take risks-not huge risks-but they do take risks and i think positive feedback of even those small risks can push teams to keep going. No one said you have to teach them bhangra through feedback-but I think re-orienting feedback to be more along the lines of "hey-saw that you did put jhoomer way later in the set or with a different style-that was cool or that didn't hit". Just talking about concepts as opposed to execution can fix the gripe that BTF shouldn't be fixing up a team.

 

[lkamalyan]

I don't think its about BTF choreoing your set-but I think communal feedback can help bridge the gap between smaller collegiate teams and independent teams. I also think that there are times when collegiate teams take risks-not huge risks-but they do take risks and i think positive feedback of even those small risks can push teams to keep going. No one said you have to teach them bhangra through feedback-but I think re-orienting feedback to be more along the lines of "hey-saw that you did put jhoomer way later in the set or with a different style-that was cool or that didn't hit". Just talking about concepts as opposed to execution can fix the gripe that BTF shouldn't be fixing up a team.

Excited to see that people have similar thoughts!


I think scaplash's post is a better way of explaining my side note about receiving and interpreting feedback. I don't expect another team to choreo my set, or any other team to heavily rely on these responses and not push limits and work on technique on their own. Nor do I think this lack of feedback is the only thing missing within the circuit and will magically solve everything. As previously stated, these discussions turn up every few months and it doesn't seem like much happens afterwards. I just wanted to state from the perspective of a young team: we can try as much as we can to watch our own videos to self critique, innovate, create what we might think is a crazy, risky set, but we can get lost in limbo and in our own heads without any nudge at all in either direction. Once again thank you to those who do post and create opportunities, and I absolutely agree with siddyp that you don't have to settle with just posting here!! Strive for excellence and promote it amongst others by setting examples like these men and women have for us.


I liken this to becoming a better individual dancer and growing within your own team: slowly you're pushed to be at the front of the stage, you're critiqued on your form and you ask for help when something is challenging. Then you do your part to help your teammates excel as well. Intrinsic and extrinsic motivation are both needed to become a great individual dancer. Surely a similar mindset and practical scenario can be created for teams through the various ways suggested (more collegiate comps, improved Facebook and btf format, more random posting/discussions and more), as well as a higher demand for teams to figure what makes them stand out.


Would love to hear some UK teams chime in!! Anything similar/different, any advice?

 

[Nimit]

I'm going to call out Buckeye, and in my doing so, I want whomever is reading this to apply it to your own teams:

I am so happy that we got to go to a competition of this caliber. A huge learning experience for sure and I hope that we can keep competing at this level.

It's great that you are happy to have competed at burgh against teams you believe to be great. But this is where the fire is lacking in my opinion. ^^This is why I think what I quoted from Ankush is 1000% true.

I can't say for sure that this is the mentality you have bc I'm not on your team, but its the sense I'm getting when I read your post... why are you "hoping" to continue competing at that level? Up the ante. Be thankful and happy that you were able to compete at that level no doubt. I remember the days when my teams would get rejected from every competition. But you better be gunning for first place at your next competition.

I guess I'll respond to this. I can see how me posting like this can come off as me not being confident in my own team but honestly you AREN'T at our practices. There is no way for you to really know whether I am preaching that we can being home a title or not. I am not any less competitive just because I am being nice on a forum. If you want me to keep it 100 all the time then sure let's do it. Yeah I think we can compete against SMD, FCB, MOB, NJ and other teams down the road. Yeah I think we can bring home some hardware on this circuit this year if we keep improving like we have been. But honestly, what is the fucking point of me starting beef on an online public forum. There is no harm in me being excited that we got to perform at burgh for the first time and there is no harm in me staying humble in the public scene.


And look man I don't think that what you are saying is wrong. Buckeye Bhangra is a team that had very little confidence a year ago. We didn't think we were really going anywhere. And it does take a mindset of breaking from the norm and "breaking through our ceilings" to get to where we are now (wherever that may be in the grand scheme). And I do agree that it shouldn't be on the mind of every collegiate team that we aren't capable of competing against big name private powerhouses. But don't make a judgement of what kind of competitive spirit we have based on one btf post.


As for the rest of this thread, I think I agree with a lot of what's being said. I really think that more collegiate-only competitions will help the collegiate end of the circuit and that is something that might be lost with competitions like Boiler becoming open to collegiate and independent teams. Also I find that a big reason why people are moving toward safe sets is because the focus is to make a set according to a rubric. There is no huge push to break the boundaries of bhangra since judges might dock you for lacking traditional elements or for a certain segment not matching what the community thinks that segment should look like. Whenever you introduce something new (like FCB's hard-hitting kato segment for example) there will be people that like it and those that dislike it and so I can see how not everyone will be open to risking placing at a competition because they just want to try something new. Personally I have fallen victim to this plenty of times and have found it hard to separate pushing boundaries from sacrificing placings at competitions when making a set.


I think this is the fault of people who are just trying to make a set around a rubric, but also the fault of people that are using the rubric to judge teams. KPGD put on a show that was nuts at Boston and it really broke a lot of norms of bhangra. But if they brought that set to Burgh, I don't think they would've placed nearly as high. Other competitions need to do a better job of rewarding refreshing ideas if they want people to push boundaries because the only thing that is going to motivate someone to push the envelope is a first place trophy.

 

[Saleem]

Yeah let's not focus too much on the Buckeye post. sidenote go blue though. For years we've been telling captains to be humble, be respectful, be appreciative. That's what he was doing. I think we all agree on the larger points in the thread.

 

[siddyp]

First and foremost, it's all love. I'm not trying to attack you. I was just using one line that you wrote. I wanted to use it as an example for everyone. I genuinely want everyone to get better. I apologize if it came off in an attacking way. No beef on my end.

I guess I'll respond to this. I can see how me posting like this can come off as me not being confident in my own team but honestly you AREN'T at our practices. There is no way for you to really know whether I am preaching that we can being home a title or not. I am not any less competitive just because I am being nice on a forum. If you want me to keep it 100 all the time then sure let's do it. Yeah I think we can compete against SMD, FCB, MOB, NJ and other teams down the road. Yeah I think we can bring home some hardware on this circuit this year if we keep improving like we have been. But honestly, what is the fucking point of me starting beef on an online public forum. There is no harm in me being excited that we got to perform at burgh for the first time and there is no harm in me staying humble in the public scene.

You were super classy, humble and respectful. As Saleem said, please don't change your ways. But I'll re-iterate: Saying that you "hope to continue competing at this level" is where I was trying to offer my piece about the "fire in the circuit." <<-- keep the subject here. That's all I was trying to do. Not attack you or buckeye. Because yeah. I don't know what goes on within your team.

Many times on the forum people read things and critiques but don't truly understand what it means. It's a problem with the written word on a forum. What I was trying to do was give a clear picture as to what Ankush was talking about. A big proportion of the circuit ACTUALLY has that sentiment of just being "thankful" and hoping to just do it again. I'm glad to hear that you don't. And I hope this whole ordeal fuels even more fire for you and Buckeye.

And look man I don't think that what you are saying is wrong. Buckeye Bhangra is a team that had very little confidence a year ago. We didn't think we were really going anywhere. And it does take a mindset of breaking from the norm and "breaking through our ceilings" to get to where we are now (wherever that may be in the grand scheme). And I do agree that it shouldn't be on the mind of every collegiate team that we aren't capable of competing against big name private powerhouses. But don't make a judgement of what kind of competitive spirit we have based on one btf post.

Again I wasn't trying to. I am sorry if it came off that way.


If we want more fire in the circuit, we should strive for excellence with the product that is put on stage. +1 to Ankush.

 

[Nimit]

Yeah sorry about that I overreacted. I do see the point you are making about there being less fire on the circuit. Honestly I wasn't really around for the 2007-12 glory days but I can definitely feel the lack of desire to succeed to some extent. I think that some of that also comes from the fact that we are going through kind of a transition period. Teams like FAUJ, AEG, JJ, SGPD, NJ, PCBCA (although apparently they are coming back ), TAG, and BK that initially used to lead the circuit have either disbanded or don't compete regularly anymore. I think it will take some time for there to be the abundance of top tier teams that there were a few years ago. I think people outside those teams have not really taken it upon themselves to fill that void and until that starts happening we won't see as much progress. The talent is there for the circuit, but people need the see the opportunity to make a name for their squad. Good thread btw Howie and a late happy birthday lol

 

[disharma1317]

I am logging in to BTF for the first time in almost a year because word on the grapevine was that there was some buzz revolving around this post. So I checked it and was sorely disappointed.

As a circuit, we’re becoming too…nice. There used to be a time in which we didn’t apologize for our views or pussyfoot around offending someone. The criticisms and the shit talking drove teams to bring their A game to competitions to prove themselves as the fucking best. Rivalries drove the fire on the circuit and people weren’t afraid to call each other out on their bullshit politics or bullshit dancing or bullshit set. The fact that even in a post about the lack of fire on the circuit generated barely a flickering flame of dissent within the community is pretty fucking sad. Where did all the angry, self-righteous, assholes go?

The current generation of dancers lacks the spirit that the circuit once had. Are there still dancers out there who spend hours obsessing over videos and flip a shit when something awesome on the circuit happens? I’ve seen countless performances and yet I have come to a point where I’m BORED. 80% of teams are following the same cookie cutter routine because they’re scared of potential backlash if they take risks and it doesn’t pay off. We need more teams on the circuit to take those risks and push the boundaries of what they deem acceptable, regardless of whether or not they get points taken off.

If co-ed bhangra teams want to be like the OG VCU squad, then stop focusing on the “clean and folk”. VCU wasn’t JUST clean and folk, they were also hype as hell. They were ENTERTAINING. It’s about being entertaining AND clean AND folk. Every team now is just folk and clean. Where did the entertaining part go? VCU knew the perfect balance. Emulate that. BE clean and folk (no one is telling you not to), but be entertaining FIRST. That crazy ass hype segment that you came up with while you were drunk as shit last night? Fight for it. Make it happen. Don’t pull the bullshit “it’ll look messy” excuse everyone comes up with as a reason for not taking that risk. Put it out there. What’s the worst that’s going to happen? You guys fuck it up and then all of 17 people on BTF talk about it tomorrow? Get over it. There's no such thing as "Oh, you're not supposed to..." Who says you're not supposed to? Do it anyways. Treat yoself.

I’m not calling out any teams or individuals, as this really isn’t the purpose of the post at all, but if it pisses you off and you think I’m secretly throwing shade, then good. Whatever will motivate you to get up off your ass and start the next big thing is something that I feel okay being responsible for.

As a circuit, I think we need to stop apologizing and start getting offended. If that’s what’s going to drive creativity and innovation, by all means, start pissing each other off. It’s only going to do us better in the end as a circuit because right now, the state of things is pretty fucking sad.

So if you're reading this now, your set probably sucks. Your set probably sucks, your dancers probably suck, and you probably suck the most of all. So instead of whining about your hurt feelings and how some bitch on BTF is being a piece of shit asshole in the middle of the night for no fucking reason, get up off your fucking ass, get offended, get angry, get inspired, and fix your shit.

</endrant>

 

[mrchicity]

First off, lol at ^^^

Few people understand what it means to make a set where each segment has purpose. It's not about doing some crazy idea for the sake of breaking the mold, that just leads to stupid stuff that usually doesn't make sense. It's about making choreography that shows that you know what the fuck you're doing. I'm of the mindset that my generation of dancers (2008-2012) made sets that made more sense because we watched endless amounts of India live teams. We tried to emulate them, not just sgpd or nj or whichever team people think is a powerhouse now. We tried to learn how to properly do each dance that makes up a Bhangra routine, and then we tried to tweak them in ways that made sense for a music team.

Imo, the only teams from the past year (leaving my own team out) that made really proper sets were the warriors and Shaan Punjab di. Both teams have an incredible foundation in that they can already execute moves properly and understand the dance, and thus can move forward and actually do some innovative shit that actually speaks to you. Look at NJW's sucha soorma segment from Burgh, it's fucking beautiful, and they didn't do anything with lights, throwing props, whipping out roses/hearts, or any of the stupid stuff I've seen countless times over the last 5 years. They made some actually innovative choreography and showcased it.

Teams don't need to just do some crazy stuff, they need to understand how to properly dance and then try to innovate. They need to understand that playing sapps, putting them down for 8 beats and then picking them up again doesn't mean anything unless you're doing some crazy formation or crazy choreography in between. They need to understand doing mirza to a dhamaal beat as throwaway choreo to lead into phumaniyaan shows that you don't get how unique of a segment it actually is, and that it should be given its own time if it is to be done. Doing opening or ending mela doesn't get you more points unless you're actually doing something interesting. Doing a cutesy segment where the guy gives the girl a fake rose or vice versa or the guy twirls the girl and dips her and then pirouettes off stage isn't unique, it's been done a million fucking times by now. Stuff like that shows me as a judge that you don't understand what you're doing. The circuit will be much better off when more teams realize all of this.

 

[Basim]

Hi friends,

Considering that most of the people that posted on this "fire missing from the circuit" topic are veterans is the underlying issue to me. I, personally, have tried to help newer teams get started in the circuit and have always encouraged new competitions that spring up to give an opportunity to newer teams/junior teams to perform/compete. Along the way, getting the ENTIRE team registered and "involved" on BTF is something that I have tried to convey to many. We should be thankful for having such an amazing platform, but I feel many people just take it for granted.

Unfortunately, I don't see too new dancers from our "next generation" taking over the endless discussions we've all had & come to love. Maybe it's due to so many information being out there already? Not sure. It's not like the issues we faced are any less prevalent in the circuit now.. I mean are competitions perfect? Is judging spot on? Is every set impact/hard hitting that it keep you engaged and makes you want to attempt the choreo yourself? Are we at the limit in terms of gimmicks? Are teams/people executing moves "properly?" What can be done to help new dancers/teams out? How do you run your practices and what works the best? Is your team making their own mix and how engaged are DJ's with your team's choreography/set?


Nobody climbs out their mother's womb doing bedi, knowing how to execute jhummar properly, does dhaamal around the nurses, etc. Like any art form, bhangra is a skill set that you can acquire over time. Perhaps newer people to the dance feel hesitant to ask about execution (i.e. like our recent behtke topic) due to embarrassment of feeling like they don't know something which some may consider "basic?"


Lastly, I've known so many people that have come & gone.. they used the bhangra circuit to have fun/compete during their college years, but now could care less about it.. which is really sad. Naturally people move on to do other things in life, but trying to engage get some of the old school dancers to post every now & then would be awesome too.

One would think that since the competitive scene has expanded internationally, there would be MORE involvement and discussion.. sadly, that's not what is happening.

Anyway, not sure if any of this adds to the good discussion already going on, but I just wanted to put in my two cents.

~ Basim

 

[Aditya]

For collegiate teams on here wondering what it takes to get to the top, it all starts with this "fire" that's missing. Back at Burgh 2012, my first competition as captain of UVA, we did a lot of things that limited ourselves for the sake of being clean and not messing up to get a placing. Everything we did was to please the judges and we didn't really push ourselves for anything more than winning the competition (a lot of which I see from teams currently competing). Ironically, that's when we didn't place and got a lot of feedback from judges that we were not happy about. I remember that moment with my co-captains, being so pissed off that they didn't think we were good enough (even though they were right) and wanting nothing more than to make sure they ate their words. I also remember how annoyed I was that Cal and Cornell, other collegiate teams, had placed ahead of us and got more recognition than we did, and later on that they had gotten invited to WBBC, along with UNC and Rutgers. On top of all of this, we could barely get into comps for the rest of the year, getting rejected by VPD, Fever and Bell.

Our goal from that point on was to have the best collegiate performance in the country, and make sure everyone knew who we were. That meant we spent countless hours retooling the set, redoing the mix, and drilling our dancers and ourselves. That meant reaching out to our connections and incorporating all their feedback and being ridiculously hard on ourselves to push out the best set we could. I still remember when the Blowout 2013 lineup got announced and everyone on this site was picking CMU to win without giving us a second thought. Our girl captain set a goal to make sure judges never had a bad word to say about our girls again, and I set a goal to make sure everyone who ever doubted us regretted it, whether that was the first judges from Burgh, the naysayers on BTF, or the committees on all the competitions that rejected us. Fast-forward a few years and UVA's managed to win DDA, win Blowout in 2013/14, get invited to WBBC, win CSUN, place 2nd at Blowout in 2015, and get 2nd at Tashan this year (the last 3 happening after I graduated).

I'm not saying this to toot my own horn or brag about my team, because we're not the only ones to have successful runs -- CMU and Cornell are prime examples of other collegiate teams that have maintained a high level of consistency over the last few years, as did the VCU team from 07-11. But every one of those teams worked their asses off day in and day out and didn't make excuses. I won't speak for CMU or Cornell (although I suspect some of this is true for them also), but I know that the VA teams (UVA, VCU, JJ) made it a point of pride to forge our own identities and wanted nothing more than to shit on everyone else we were competing against. [SIZE=small]That's not to say you have to be an asshole on BTF or at a competition where you see these other teams (we actually got along well with our "rivals" since they're great people), but I guarantee you that we've said a lot of shit behind closed doors about how badly we wanted to wipe the floor with them from a dancing perspective. [/SIZE][SIZE=small]That culture and competitive mindset still carries through now and its why dancer turnover hasn't been as much of an issue (even though we've graduated 6+ dancers each of the past two years) because every new dancer quickly learns the environment they've just joined and the standards they're expected to maintain. [/SIZE]

Bottom line is this: if you wanna make it big in this circuit and do some shit, you're gonna have to work for it -- no shortcuts. Don't worry so much about placing -- worry more about being as badass as you possibly can given your goals and constraints and never settle for anything less. Do things YOUR way, and don't stop pushing yourself to be better each day, whether its as a mixer, choreographer, or a dancer. And if hating every other team is what it takes for you to push harder, then so be it. Placings will come when you stop pandering to what you think judges want and just challenge yourself to be great.


Finally, if your complaint is not receiving feedback, then refer to the following posts because they probably apply to you:

Few people understand what it means to make a set where each segment has purpose. It's not about doing some crazy idea for the sake of breaking the mold, that just leads to stupid stuff that usually doesn't make sense. It's about making choreography that shows that you know what the fuck you're doing. I'm of the mindset that my generation of dancers (2008-2012) made sets that made more sense because we watched endless amounts of India live teams. We tried to emulate them, not just sgpd or nj or whichever team people think is a powerhouse now. We tried to learn how to properly do each dance that makes up a Bhangra routine, and then we tried to tweak them in ways that made sense for a music team.
Teams don't need to just do some crazy stuff, they need to understand how to properly dance and then try to innovate. They need to understand that playing sapps, putting them down for 8 beats and then picking them up again doesn't mean anything unless you're doing some crazy formation or crazy choreography in between. They need to understand doing mirza to a dhamaal beat as throwaway choreo to lead into phumaniyaan shows that you don't get how unique of a segment it actually is, and that it should be given its own time if it is to be done. Doing opening or ending mela doesn't get you more points unless you're actually doing something interesting. Doing a cutesy segment where the guy gives the girl a fake rose or vice versa or the guy twirls the girl and dips her and then pirouettes off stage isn't unique, it's been done a million fucking times by now. Stuff like that shows me as a judge that you don't understand what you're doing. The circuit will be much better off when more teams realize all of this.

If co-ed bhangra teams want to be like the OG VCU squad, then stop focusing on the “clean and folk”. VCU wasn’t JUST clean and folk, they were also hype as hell. They were ENTERTAINING. It’s about being entertaining AND clean AND folk. Every team now is just folk and clean. Where did the entertaining part go? VCU knew the perfect balance. Emulate that. BE clean and folk (no one is telling you not to), but be entertaining FIRST. That crazy ass hype segment that you came up with while you were drunk as shit last night? Fight for it. Make it happen. Don’t pull the bullshit “it’ll look messy” excuse everyone comes up with as a reason for not taking that risk. Put it out there. What’s the worst that’s going to happen? You guys fuck it up and then all of 17 people on BTF talk about it tomorrow? Get over it. There's no such thing as "Oh, you're not supposed to..." Who says you're not supposed to? Do it anyways. Treat yoself.

So if you're reading this now, your set probably sucks. Your set probably sucks, your dancers probably suck, and you probably suck the most of all. So instead of whining about your hurt feelings and how some bitch on BTF is being a piece of shit asshole in the middle of the night for no fucking reason, get up off your fucking ass, get offended, get angry, get inspired, and fix your shit.

</endrant>

Giving feedback on btf is no way ever going to bring back the fire to the circuit. People need to start helping themselves, and not make excuses for their lack of improvement because they get no feedback on BTF. If you want to know what your team isn't doing well, study the teams that are doing well, look at what they do well, then strategize what adjustments you need to make, and then try to implement. If you cannot figure out solutions to some of the most basic problems on your own, you are not going to figure out what to do to make your team elite. If you wanna make your team better, study, study, study (not copy, copy, copy, copy).

 

[siddyp]

+1

If you are a collegiate captain, and you are sleeping more than 4-5 hours a night on average, you don't have fire.

LOL. dawg. not sleeping enough isn't the answer I promise. We do a high intensity dance. One that puts a lot of stress on the body. Sleep is the time when our body heals and recovers. If you want your body to feel better, your knees to heal faster, your ankles, whatever. Get a couple more hours of sleep and you have a better shot at being less in pain.

Instead of sleeping less, be more effiecient with your time. I promise you can get everything done w a 16-18 hour window. Less sleep doesn't = less fire. More productivity and drive to get shit done = more fire

 

[MotorCityBhangra]

Great discussion everyone. I think this whole discussion was much needed not only for the new and retired dancers but also for the competition organizers like me who used to dance during the time when the circuit had the "fire" that is missing these days. The reason I say this was mcuh needed for me personally because I think as organizers of a Bhangra competition we tend to design a rubric which we feel will cover a generic routine/set. I think because of this a lot of teams who focuses solely on the rubric because they think if they follow every single point in the rubric they should place 1st. After reading a few of these comments I think we need a serious change here because by designing the rubric the same exact way as other compeitions we are basically not forcing the teams out of their comfort zones. We have basically set a standard out inthe circuit that here is the thing... if you do phumaniya, dhmaal, luddi its 10 points or you need to have 2 stunts or gimmicks or whatever. I think that needs to stop. A rubric according to me should be just a tool that is provided to the judges to standardize the judging between the panels. This should not be the heart and soul of the competition. The heart and sould of the competition needs to be focused on the team’s routines and sets. What I feel now is that teams are not competing against each other when they come on stage like it used to be between different academy's back in the day. They are all competing against a rubric and trying to see who can follow it better which absolutely sucks.

When I used to dance for Khalsa college we used to focus on us internally first and then look at other stuff. Saanu pta si ke je asi apni poori jaan laavange ta results apne aap miluga. fer oh saade favor ch hove ja na hove atleast saanu pta si ke aapa apni poori jaan layi and thats what used to make us happy and if for some reason we were not feeling motivated then we would always get fired up looking at DAV for GNDU competing against us. That is what is missing here. Learn how to compete as a unit first then worry about competition and then if you still have something left then worry about what is in the rubric.

I have judged numerous competitions as well now and I want to let you know my personal experience as everyone have their own way of judging. I might be wrong but I do not think any judge when watching your routine is going through the list in the rubric and checking the boxes. I watch the whole routine and take notes accordingly and then go through the list to help me put a number on the performance. I have luckily had good reviews on my judging so far (waheguru de mehar naal) The key point in that is watching the performance and seeing how a particular team is performing as a unit on stage.

The main reason why I decided to organize MCB and make it a traditional folk competition is just to get the teams out of their comfort zones in lieu of bringing the fire back. I went to numerous competitions here in US with different teams after I came from India and to be honest sometimes I would get bored performing the same routine at numerous different competitions. After the first comp or two it became a routine to me and the enjoyment was gone. I danced because bhangra always bring a smile on my face but when you keep on doing the same thing over and over again it becomes irritating after a while and you lose the fire that was there when you did the routine the very first time on stage. The whole process of talking with your team and captains and making a routine a really fun because of all the different ideas that pop up every day in practice but once you have a set done and all you are doing is run thru's for 4 different comps that you go to in a season after a while it becomes boring.

I understand that collegiate teams might not have enough time to change whole routines due to studies workload but I still think you can change a few things to keep it interesting for the dancers so it doesn't become a routine. It stays a dance form that they love doing.

Gary

 

[Aditya]

One more point I'll add: When you create a routine and perform it on stage, think about what the people watching it are thinking too. Are you dancing with the skill and passion that might inspire a casual viewer to try doing bhangra because they want to be like you? Are you making your rivals jealous that they're not on your level? In essence, whether by inspiring others to emulate you or making someone else want to go back to the drawing board to retool, are you lighting a fire in ANYONE who's watching with your actions? If you don't think so, then you have to keep working until that's the case.

 

[nikkikesav]

I sat here for a little while in the peanut gallery before I decided to respond. As a high school bhangra dancer, I feel like I belong to that "younger, less experienced dancers" category, so I thought I would break the norm and share my thoughts.

I started bhangra about two or three years ago, and I have observed teams and dynamics since then. I do agree that the circuit has lost that “fire” or the competitive aspect. But I don’t think people need to be rude in order for that to resurface. There’s a fine line between being humble and lacking confidence, and I don’t think Nimit crossed that. There’s a misconception that showing humility is a sign of weakness, but that isn’t the case.

Bhangra should be a positive community, not an intimidating environment. However, in an effort to make this a positive community, teams have lost part of that competitive edge. In fear of hurting someone’s feelings, people are starting to not freely express their thoughts. While “fire” doesn’t mean being disrespectful, it also doesn’t mean filtering out real opinions and constructive criticism. The “fire” that our community should embrace is having the desire to improve.

I will say that there is an issue concerning my current generation of bhangra teams and dancers. Personally, I am super passionate about bhangra and most people who know me can vouch for that. However, the passive mentality that has developed within the circuit is detrimental towards incoming dancers because they were never exposed to the level of competitiveness that should be shown. The burden to change the culture of bhangra lies not with the newer members, but with the older ones. Having experience, older members need to get the incoming generation more excited and serious about bhangra. This way the standard of competitions and performances is kept by future teams and doesn’t rely on the popular teams from five years ago.

Just my two cents.

 

[TSingh1]

I’ll strictly speak about CMU and how we do things. Since my freshmen year, I can distinctly remember each captain just discussing “How can we make our team better than last year?” A few of you guys know how we have a Campus Team, that solely is for our new dancers to understand Bhangra, learn basics, and develop that love for the culture and art form. We strive to take approximately 40 dancers for our team every year and train accordingly. As far as the our competitive team, constantly, the goal was to improve from the year before, and when that passion was 150% from the captains, it would consequently be passed down to all the dancers. Our goal is never to start over from the year before, but rather build up. Make the set harder, bump everything a little faster, change the style of a move in a different way etc.[SIZE=medium]

When I came into captaincy this year, I knew we were gong to be able to train dancers successfully, and I had faith within myself/co-captain (Ankur) that we can create a set, but I still wanted to push the limits even more. I taught each brand new dancer how to dance on the basis of just dhol. For the first month of practice, each dancer, which most had never danced bhangra before, learned bhangra only to dhol. Learned the beats associated with the specific footwork, and drilled in that manner. Is it necessary? Honestly for a music team, no, it may not be necessary, but if I want my team to be confident, I strive to make sure they are well-versed in every aspect of bhangra. I do think ego is the worst thing any individual can have, but confidence is what creates legendary and inspiring human beings. The goal is when we walk into a competition, we are confident in what we have learned/trained and execute with our heads high to the best of our ability.

As far as the rivalries, I think they are still present, just not obviously being shown at competitions. Our team knows the strengths and weaknesses of every team coming to a competition. As Aditya mentioned, UVA, CMU, and Cornell have always been competing against each other. We do things differently and probably do say a lot behind each others’ backs, but in the end we have that mutual respect for each other because in a different world, we could have been striving for the same thing just on the same team rather than different. Our team knows what we are going up against when we are going into a competition It’s that mutual respect for teams where I think the circuit has evolved in a more mature manner, but I do think passion has been lacking overall. It is the responsibility of the older retired individuals to strive to push that passion back.

As far as KB's post about individuals joining the team, I agree that when [/SIZE]freshmen come in, they are looking for a "cool" group of people to hang out with. We strive to show that we are fun and act like a family and what not, but we all have a common goal/passion where we are in love with this dance and culture. I make it my goal every year to inspire all the young ones and make them hooked just how like my elders did within me. Once that love for Bhangra/Culture is invested, there's nothing stopping them for years to come. That "fire" comes from that passion.

 

[Yankee Saini]

[SIZE=small]AGG KITHE GAYI ? ? ?[/SIZE] . . . agg laapata hon da kasoor-baad sirf te sirf "umar" aa! . . . Ik waqt si jadh Bhangra paun wale serious te mature hunde si(gussa na koyi kareyo, par gall eh sachi aa) . . . Basically, eh kehan di koshish kar reha aa ki 2000-2012 da jehrra sama si(speaking from experience), uddon teams competition te sirf ik e iraade naale jaundiyan si, oh eh si ki asi "jitt" ke aauna. Te ajj de time te? Ajj de time te dancers di mentality kuch hor e paase nu tur payi . . . "jittna" inha di first priority rahi e nahi . . . munde/kurriyan gharon eh soch ke turde aa ki chalo bhangra team join karde aa te competition te fun-shan kara geh(which is absolutely OK, i mean that's what Bhangra is about, having fun) . . . but what i'm trying to say is that, ki ajj de jawaak sirf "fun/aish karn" ch laggeh aa. Soch inha di eh bann gayi aa ki Bhangra team join karde aa, kurriyan fassaunde@guys/munde fassaunde@bibiyan, te poora weekend daroo pi ke aish kara geh. That's the their mentality and i'm not B'sing, def. experienced that for the past 3-4 years. Poora weekend daroo di botal nu mooh laake kadd dinde, te serious swaah huna inha neh? . . . Not saying, dancers back then didn't drink or had fun, they sure did but their first priority was "winning" and work hard on your set! . . . Par ajj, mixer shuru nee hoya hunda, pehlan e yaaran/dostan nu phone karke puchhan lagg painde aa ki "daroo di botal laike aaya koyi", ja pher kurriyan nu phone ghumaah dinde aa te puchde aa "ki tu aa rahi aa, je haan tan kehrra suit paake aa rahi aa, matching kara geh" lol . . . That's the mentality of ajj di janta! . . . [SIZE=small]AGG[/SIZE] bhangre cho kaddke, hor kitey e [SIZE=small]AGG [/SIZE]varti jaunde aa ajj de jwaak(munde/kurriyan) . . . . Long story short, puraane din nahi murrke aaune! joh marji karlo! bhave [SIZE=small]Modi[/SIZE] nu phone karke puchlo ki "[SIZE=small]bhangre ch achhe din kab aayeinge[/SIZE]?" . . . Likhan nu bahut kuch likh sakda par aethe Punjabi samjan wale ghatt aa, so avein kise nu pareshaan karna vi sahi nahi, you know! . . . chalo, mitro changa! Gussa na kareyo meri koyi gall da! . . . te Puraane din yaad karne bhull jo, oh nahi murrke aaune. Time badal gaya te time naal aaun wali peedi da behavior vi badal jaunda! Ok-bye-Tata! #NoHornPlease

 

[sumeetj]

*moderators*

can we make a separate thread or a sticky where experienced teams or teams who have placed a few times tell their "story"/process/how they practice/etc? of course they can leave out their "secret sauce" (for instance, i give everyone on my team a peck on the lips before and after each all-out run through) - i think it would both be really interesting to read and informative for younger teams or even teams who just want to try something new/get some inspiration/get out of a rut.

 

[AnkurK]