Fire Missing From the Circuit

[Howie Magz]

I think many people have realized this over the past couple of years, but it appears that the fire that was once there in the circuit has died down by a significant amount. When I first got introduced to bhangra there were so many rivalries and the seats at competitions were filled with spectators, team fans, and parents alike. Almost every bhangra competition I attended as a spectator the crowd was filled and there was an electrifying feeling in the air. You can hear people talking about this team placing or that team placing and people actually arguing with one another about which team was better. I felt like this electrifying feeling came from established rivalries in the past. These rivalries were what I felt at times drew people to come and see how teams would compete against each other if they were at the same competition. This drove teams to work harder on there sets in order to fuel those rivalries and prove who truly was the better team. Now at competitions you barely hear anything of that sort. Those teams who held those rivalries appeared to have left the circuit.


In terms of competitions availability awesome competitions like Bulldog, TDOT, Dhol Di Awaz, and Warrior have died out. Yes there are new competitions being held every year, but they don't have the crazy line up or feel of those previous competitions. However, I truly commend these competitions for making a strive to save bhangra by creating them. There are obviously always exceptions with competitions like WBBC, Elite 8, Bruin, and Boston Bhangra where there appears to be a packed house, but not every team in the circuit has the caliber to get invited or accepted into those competitions. Going back to my previous point about all the great teams of the past leaving the circuit, I haven't seen many teams who can display the caliber of those teams to be invited to these competitions. I challenge all the new active teams in the circuit to bring that caliber of dancing back to the circuit.

I do not mean to offend anyone with this post. What are other people's thoughts on this topic? I think this is something that should be addressed every so often.

 

[siddyp]

Going back to my previous point about all the great teams of the past leaving the circuit, I haven't seen many teams who can display the caliber of those teams to be invited to these competitions. I challenge all the new active teams in the circuit to bring that caliber of dancing back to the circuit.

This needs to happen. stop being safe. bring some difficult, hard hitting, crazy awesome choreo.

I do not mean to offend anyone with this post.

i hope all teams are offended and in turn, bring the heat so they can say "hey howie: STFU"

 

[sumeetj]

howie i am offended. i think teams should continue to bring the same cookie cutter sets to competitions. or just copy NJ.

 

[angeblah]

A major issue is that many teams that are inspired by these older powerhouses have limited capability to solely focus on bringing the "fire." Collegiate teams spend so much time recovering from yearly dancer turnover and getting new dancers to a competitive dancing level. Perhaps the BTF community can offer insight on how teams can balance executing risky, challenging choreo with training new talent.


More importantly, while I agree that teams need to push the envelope, just taking more risks isn't enough. Making a set exciting, flashy, more athletic-- that's ultimately superficial. I think the most overlooked area for teams is how to think about progressing bhangra as an art form. What has made dance forms like ballet endure for centuries is a constant exploration of what emotions and ideas can be told through its vocabulary. Dance, at its core, is pure storytelling. If dancers lose that mindfulness, I can't see bhangra becoming anything more than just super hype exercise. I really believe that once dancers find something deeply meaningful in their work, the fire and substance will be there.

I'm a pretty new dancer, so I haven't seen this "dying fire" process in its entirety. But I'm sure as hell ready to bring the heat this season, balls to the wall.

 

[sartajjudge]

Although I have stopped following Bhangra to an extent after graduating undergrad, I have to agree. No longer are there rivalries like SGPD/NJ, the domination by teams like VCU placing first at comp after comp. I think a lot of it has to do with the dancers of that era have retired. It's up to the newer generation of dancers to excel and bring back that fire and enthusiasm that I felt back in the 2008-12 era.

 

[Lally]

Abbotsford will be back in the circuit after a long break of 4 years. Looking forward to bringing something refreshing to the scene!

 

[vaibhav]

Definitely agree with many of you. We need teams to push the boundaries and not fall victim to creating cookie cutter routines.

I think a huge difference from today compared to 3,4,5, maybe 6 years ago is the similarity in style and structure of routines that many teams have nowadays. Back several years ago, I felt that there was a stark, obvious difference between sets created by the big name teams like empire, vcu, nj, sgpd, apd, abc, bmw, aeg, fauj, etc. And this variation in styles really helped the circuit expand immensely. I feel a larger percentage of teams had their own unique style and method of "doing bhangra".
I think with the abstract concept that we call traditionality, many teams (both prominent and less prominent) seem to be too afraid or shy to try concepts that can push the boundaries of bhangra, for they fear they won't be considered a traditional team anymore, or may be viewed as a team that isn't doing bhangra anymore. Traditional segments are important and are the foundation of bhangra, but that maybe shouldn't restrict teams from being creative, or different, regardless of whether the team subscribes itself to modern or folk bhangra.

I guess my point and advice is that teams should always experiment. If their ideas for some reason don't seem to work the way they wanted, just go back to the drawing board and try again with a modification of that idea or concept or with a novel idea.

 

[Shahrukh]

The circuit has been dead for a while.

 

[amancheema]

we used to dance to miss pooja and still look more like banday

 

[lkamalyan]

Shout out to Howie and everyone who has responded so far in creating a discussion. I apologize if I bring up anything that's already been said on another thread, but as a part of the problem, I'd like to offer a few thoughts.


I can only speak for myself and my experiences as a captain last year of a "lesser known" collegiate team. One of the most heartbreaking things after being introduced to this dance and culture, soaking everything up and being inspired to add to it, was not receiving much feedback from the community. Collegiate teams will always be plagued with the same problems that are apparent every competition season, but it's incredibly discouraging to post and look down the list of videos from younger, smaller teams with a "lesser" presence on the circuit asking for feedback and critiques, and a large majority of them have 0 replies. To me the reason for this is two-fold: the retired dancers of the "golden age" understandably don't use the site anymore and don't have the time to send any critiques or feedback, and the current community of younger, less experienced dancers are either not confident enough to post a reply or critique or are waiting for someone else to do it - classic bystander effect. I'm guilty of it myself. We get it, we may suck, and it may be boring to watch our videos, but we'd appreciate something...I've seen a few posts about this before and I think the current active collegiate team community needs to make a better effort to support one another and post feedback.

Now this isn't to say these teams should rely solely on what the circuit thinks of them and lose the ability to create and think for themselves. But for a team trying not to be a cookie cutter team and establish a name on the circuit, any response is better than absolutely no response at all. Feedback doesn't have to be lengthy or profound, just a thoughtful reply, something more to go on than what a panel of 3 to 5 judges say at a competition. The posts on this thread before me have mentioned the caliber of current teams being too low to be invited to competitions, for them to push the envelope and take risks, to innovate and bring something new to the table. While absolutely valid points (although vague and recycled), and a part of the problem: it becomes frustrating to do so at a pace fast enough to keep up when not very many of our peers offer any other sort of response. (Many thanks to those that do post feedback, please don't stop!) Even a simple "sick set, keep it up" or "your jugni segment didn't work for me" whatever it may be....I think it'd be really helpful, and would inspire teams to push themselves and each other to "bring back the fire."


Additionally, although I get just as excited as the next person when I see a kick-ass line up posted for a higher tier competition (and I can only imagine the considerations and stress organizers have to go through to set all of that up), the opportunities for less experienced teams to get more experience seems to be dwindling. Yes, smaller regional competitions pop up every now and again and their presence seems to be increasing (thank you to those!!) but these chances are also knuckled out by the teams with a heavier influence on the circuit looking for an easy cash flow. It can get incredibly frustrating as a captain to motivate my group of younger dancers (who are still trying to figure out their lives and futures) to continue practicing and putting in these long hours when the majority of my team may not see an opportunity for their efforts to be worth it. Many of us have been fortunate enough to know what it feels like to perform and compete and be in the presence of our peers and legends. I encourage more competition organizers (and thanks to those already doing so) to throw younger teams a bone now and again so they can experience that indescribable feeling keeping the rest of us going. Plus with the added measure of fresh faces at mixers, new connections between teams, more support and feedback, potential new rivals, etc etc...then maybe the next competition or the year after, these teams will come back better than ever. Who knows?


I know there are many more aspects, sides and loops to this, especially from competition organizers trying to sell tickets and make their own efforts worth it too. I've only said my part from my experiences and maybe I'm being too hopeful and optimistic...I also know I can't speak for other collegiate or private teams, but I sincerely hope more people post and this discussion continues (especially from those on collegiate teams who have successfully made it, we look up to you!)

 

[angeblah]

the current community of younger, less experienced dancers are either not confident enough to post a reply or critique or are waiting for someone else to do it - classic bystander effect.

Super guilty of this as well. For me, it's definitely a feeling of "am I even qualified to say these things?" Grateful to know that other people feel the same way, so I'll try harder to post my thoughts, too.

 

[sangeensingh]

U.K. has the fire now.

 

[KushK]

U.K. has the fire now.

100% agree. UK is where our circuit was from 2007-2012ish when all the madness took place.

VCU/EMPIRE
SGPD/NJ
AEG/VIRSA
PCBCA/PANJ

I can go on and on... just isn't the same anymore and its because people are "too nice". Not saying you need to go to comps and completely fuck shit up and start fights, but that killer mentality for every team wanting first place just isn't there. Everyone used to come to win. Everyone brought 100%. Today everyone does it for the joy and pride of punjabi culture, which is great and all but again it just isn't the same.

 

[Saleem]

...a large majority of them have 0 replies. ... current community of younger, less experienced dancers are either not confident enough to post a reply or critique or are waiting for someone else to do it - classic bystander effect. I'm guilty of it myself. We get it, we may suck, and it may be boring to watch our videos, but we'd appreciate something...I've seen a few posts about this before and I think the current active collegiate team community needs to make a better effort to support one another and post feedback.

I just want to highlight this again. This is huge. Whether people are too shy to post, only post if there is some ground-breaking thing to say, are waiting for someone more senior to post, or is on one of the teams where 'oh we don't post on BTF' -- these are the mental hurdles that need to be broken down.

Do you realize that a RANDOM WEEKDAY from 2010 would have 150-250 posts per day? Those weren't all earth-shattering posts from bhangra vets. They were everyone just DISCUSSING (and shootin the shit in Off Topic, as a community). The day before Thanksgiving 2010 as a random example had 177 posts. Tomorrow we will be lucky to have 17. Younger dancers need to realize that it is up to you guys to speak up, and you don't need to have sage advice to do it.

 

[siddyp]

but that killer mentality for every team wanting first place just isn't there. Everyone used to come to win. Everyone brought 100%. Today everyone does it for the joy and pride of punjabi culture, which is great and all but again it just isn't the same.

This is all that needs to be said. And hopefully it get's read and heard.

I'm going to call out Buckeye, and in my doing so, I want whomever is reading this to apply it to your own teams:

I am so happy that we got to go to a competition of this caliber. A huge learning experience for sure and I hope that we can keep competing at this level.

It's great that you are happy to have competed at burgh against teams you believe to be great. But this is where the fire is lacking in my opinion. ^^This is why I think what I quoted from Ankush is 1000% true.

I can't say for sure that this is the mentality you have bc I'm not on your team, but its the sense I'm getting when I read your post... why are you "hoping" to continue competing at that level? Up the ante. Be thankful and happy that you were able to compete at that level no doubt. I remember the days when my teams would get rejected from every competition. But you better be gunning for first place at your next competition.

I'm not saying sit here and start beef/rivalries. I don't think thats the answer to bring back the fire. I'm saying: strive for excellence on stage. Don't settle for what you have. Go find out what you need to do to take your team to not just the next level, but the highest possible level. Don't settle at feedback on btf. Go seek out people you think are worthy to hear advice from, and DO WHAT THEY TELL YOU TO DO!

Whatever ceiling you think you have, fuck that ceiling. Bust right through it. Put in the effort inside and outside of practice, show up to comps, have a wonderful time, and dominate the stage.

 

[siddyp]

...a large majority of them have 0 replies. ... current community of younger, less experienced dancers are either not confident enough to post a reply or critique or are waiting for someone else to do it - classic bystander effect. I'm guilty of it myself. We get it, we may suck, and it may be boring to watch our videos, but we'd appreciate something...I've seen a few posts about this before and I think the current active collegiate team community needs to make a better effort to support one another and post feedback.

I just want to highlight this again. This is huge. Whether people are too shy to post, only post if there is some ground-breaking thing to say, are waiting for someone more senior to post, or is on one of the teams where 'oh we don't post on BTF' -- these are the mental hurdles that need to be broken down.

Do you realize that a RANDOM WEEKDAY from 2010 would have 150-250 posts per day? Those weren't all earth-shattering posts from bhangra vets. They were everyone just DISCUSSING (and shootin the shit in Off Topic, as a community). The day before Thanksgiving 2010 as a random example had 177 posts. Tomorrow we will be lucky to have 17. Younger dancers need to realize that it is up to you guys to speak up, and you don't need to have sage advice to do it.

agreed. more random posting should happen

 

[sarora10]

. Many of us have been fortunate enough to know what it feels like to perform and compete and be in the presence of our peers and legends. I encourage more competition organizers (and thanks to those already doing so) to throw younger teams a bone now and again so they can experience that indescribable feeling keeping the rest of us going. Plus with the added measure of fresh faces at mixers, new connections between teams, more support and feedback, potential new rivals, etc etc...then maybe the next competition or the year after, these teams will come back better than ever. Who knows?

Normally not one to comment but, as a captain of a collegiate team that has really been trying to break into the circuit for a few years now I totally feel this. For a really long time, we just focused on trying to make cool/creative sets and then we got the opportunity to go to one or two melas and we learned so much from them about how to improve as a team and how to make sure we got the fundamentals down. Our team works harder and harder every year and we always apply to many competitions hoping that it will be our chance to really bring it to the next level as a team. More and more though it seems like all that matters is that the lineups for these competitions are really good, and I mean makes sense! Even newer competitions have had pretty solid and experienced lineups. Would love to see some competitions specifically designed for newer teams that are trying to make their way into the circuit! I think this will encourage new teams to continue their love for bhangra and revive the circuit with the next generation of people that love bhangra!

 

[Saleem]

...a large majority of them have 0 replies. ... current community of younger, less experienced dancers are either not confident enough to post a reply or critique or are waiting for someone else to do it - classic bystander effect. I'm guilty of it myself. We get it, we may suck, and it may be boring to watch our videos, but we'd appreciate something...I've seen a few posts about this before and I think the current active collegiate team community needs to make a better effort to support one another and post feedback.

I just want to highlight this again. This is huge. Whether people are too shy to post, only post if there is some ground-breaking thing to say, are waiting for someone more senior to post, or is on one of the teams where 'oh we don't post on BTF' -- these are the mental hurdles that need to be broken down.

Do you realize that a RANDOM WEEKDAY from 2010 would have 150-250 posts per day? Those weren't all earth-shattering posts from bhangra vets. They were everyone just DISCUSSING (and shootin the shit in Off Topic, as a community). The day before Thanksgiving 2010 as a random example had 177 posts. Tomorrow we will be lucky to have 17. Younger dancers need to realize that it is up to you guys to speak up, and you don't need to have sage advice to do it.

agreed. more random posting should happen

I just want to add: if any younger dancers currently in the circuit want to take some of this more into their own hands-- in organizing fantasy league competitions on BTF, in *overhauling* BTF as I have discussed in the past, in managing the Facebook page and reaching a couple thousand people-- contact me. Get the best damn resume point you can think of-- but yeah, still volunteer at the hospital, etc

 

[Manjot]

Bring back Hero member! :-X 8)


But yea, Circuit isn't the same as it was before. It just means you we have been in the circuit for too long lol. For newcomers, I think its still the same feeling for going to comps/winning/after party/after-after hotel party, just not to the level as before. One thing I would like to see is local teams staying at the official hotel as well.


Rivalries have certainly gone down a lot.


BTF used to be crazy back then too lol good times.

 

[Prabhzy]

...a large majority of them have 0 replies. ... current community of younger, less experienced dancers are either not confident enough to post a reply or critique or are waiting for someone else to do it - classic bystander effect. I'm guilty of it myself. We get it, we may suck, and it may be boring to watch our videos, but we'd appreciate something...I've seen a few posts about this before and I think the current active collegiate team community needs to make a better effort to support one another and post feedback.

I just want to highlight this again. This is huge. Whether people are too shy to post, only post if there is some ground-breaking thing to say, are waiting for someone more senior to post, or is on one of the teams where 'oh we don't post on BTF' -- these are the mental hurdles that need to be broken down.

Do you realize that a RANDOM WEEKDAY from 2010 would have 150-250 posts per day? Those weren't all earth-shattering posts from bhangra vets. They were everyone just DISCUSSING (and shootin the shit in Off Topic, as a community). The day before Thanksgiving 2010 as a random example had 177 posts. Tomorrow we will be lucky to have 17. Younger dancers need to realize that it is up to you guys to speak up, and you don't need to have sage advice to do it.

I could point out that its the same case in the UK too. Our bhangra form NachdaPunjab.co.uk was big in 2010-2012 and esp during the TBS 2012 controversy nearly 150 people were online. Now no reviews are done and the forum is almost dead.


I think the main reason is that Whatsapp groups have taken over discussions and thats diminished the need of using a forum. The fact that UK dancers use BTF more than NP shows that this site still has potential to be what it was a few years back.