Guys WHACKS Women

[Waleed]

"she deserved it"?!?!
What the quang are you guys talking about. Obviously this girl has issues and needs a serious lesson in respecting others but that guy should have just walked away instead of slapping her back (even harder judging from the sound). The whole premise of this show is that the girl bullies the participants, they are expecting such behavior from her.

-1 For slapping her back
-1 For crying like a little sissy... "how can she slap"
-1 For those Elvis sideburns

I agree with the Hans's notion that 'no one should be slapped to begin' with but unless your life is at risk, you SHOULD NOT hit women. Equal rights for women and the treatment of women are two entirely different discussions.

Note: This is just my personal opinion and I am drawing these deductions from my religious upbringing so I'm going to stop preaching now.

 

[Hans]

Eh, I don't agree, Waleed. It's not really equal rights for women if they still get special treatment, is it? That's Women's Rights = Men's Rights + 1 (special treatment). I know it's hard for us to get over that hurdle because we're programmed to hold doors for ladies and always told to never hit women (I'm programmed the same way), but it's not logically consistent.

I guess what I believe is that whether or not you choose to hit a woman is a decision that each man should make on his own, so there's nothing wrong with thinking that men should never hit women. BUT, a woman like that needs to realize that if she decides to hit a man, it is HIS CHOICE if he wants to bitch slap her back or not. She should not expect to be immune just because she is a woman, because that is just asking for special treatment.

Also, I've never seen this show and I didn't know that the premise was for her to bully the participants, but judging by the dude's reaction, her slapping him was still uncalled for in that context.

 

[Dholaholic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=Dzn8f5C9Rnc



and then u see why


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFdkzdNqU-w

 

[Summy]

Hans, I am not trying to take our discussion in another thread to here, so dont think like that, but what are you talking about? Thank you Waleed for saying that, that you for udnerstanding what respect of mother, and sister is.

Hans just because she slapped her, and shouldnt expect a slap back doesnt mean special treatment. Alright without exploding, there are certain things in society that women are not privleged to or put them at a disadvantage compared to men. Equal pay, glass ceiling, motherhood, ETC I CAN GO FOREVER... Out of respect for the sacrifices and on-going second class nature that women are consitently treated with all over the world, people with dignity dont hit or beat women for many reasons, that being one of them. I wont even begin to go into the physical reasons, or cultural.

Read the book called Frederick Douglass on Womens rights by Phillip Foner it should explain to you why out of respect for their continous sacrifice we dont degrade women with a slap in the face.

PS- How many people would appreciate even if their mother, daughter, sister, went out of line and slapped a man for no reason, if she was slapped back? How many people then would say she deserved it?

Having said that the girl was completely out of line, and I defintely would have done something, but I wouldnt have slapped her. Probably kick the other co-host's ass and tell him its her fault.

 

[Hans]

If a woman has the right to hit another man, then the principle of equal rights dictates that a man should have the right to hit another woman.

It is my belief that women DO NOT have the right to hit another man, and men DO NOT have the right to hit another woman. In this situation, the woman stepped beyond her rights, and a punishment was due. It was not the man's right to act as both the judge and the jury by administering that punishment on his own, but he was no more wrong than she was.

Also, you do not need to educate me on the ideas of Philip Foner. That man received both his Masters and PhD from Columbia University (my alma mater). I took a class taught by his nephew, Eric Foner, in my junior year of college. Maybe we can discuss some of his ideas in a more suitable environment sometime.

 

[Summy]

Also, you do not need to educate me on the ideas of Philip Foner. That man received both his Masters and PhD from Columbia University (my alma mater). I took a class taught by his nephew, Eric Foner, in my junior year of college. Maybe we can discuss some of his ideas in a more suitable environment sometime.

hahaha, right. I can see how that makes you fimilar with the work of Philip Foner.

You are sorely mistaken on what equal rights mean. Equal RIGHTS, PRIVILIGES, ETC does not equate to equality of physical abuse. AN EQUAL RIGHT WOULD BE IF A MAN VOTES, IT WOULD COUNT EQUALLY IF A WOMAN VOTES. The fact that a man is should have the ability to slap a less physically adapt woman, doesnt IMPLY EQUAL RIGHTS. hahaa.

Common, RIGHTS? EQUAL RIGHTS? Do you know what rights means?

 

[Hans]

Summy:

Moderator's note: *Image has been removed. You are more than welcome to disagree with other members and justify your reasons but please refrain from posting images/graphics simply to degrade and insult.

Hans's Note:

I'll accept that the image may have been too insulting, since it was so ugly, but for the record it was not just any ugly creature, it was a troll. I wasn't calling Summy disgusting and hideous, I was calling him an internet troll, which Urban Dictionary defines as:

"One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument."

I think Summy meets this definition because he goes out of his way to question other people's intellect and talks down to them with statements like:

Common, RIGHTS? EQUAL RIGHTS? Do you know what rights means?

Saying things like this once, or even once in a while, is one thing, but he is known to do this constantly, and I don't think it's conducive to reasoned, intelligent discussion.

I'm not saying the mods were wrong in deleting it. Just wanted to explain myself.

 

[kinnell]

Hans vs. Summy round 2... Funny picture, Hans though a bit uncalled for.

I am in complete agreement with Hans. Equality between genders means that people of each gender are treated the same but at the same time, the consequences are the same.

Yes Summy, we hold respect for women because they are mothers and they give-up their lives for their families. Previously, before equal women rights, it was believed that since women should be taking care of the families (and men would "protect" and provide means to make it possible), that they would not be able to take part in management of property, bringing home food for the family..etc. However times have been changing. As women through the years were given more rights and an attempt at equality was made, the role women play in families have changed as well. You will see mothers working full-time and having nannies take care of the family..etc. Even now, men and women take equal positions in earning salaries as well as taking part of the family.

That brings me to the second reason for this "special treatment" - Chivalry. Chivalry, a part of human attraction/mating process, is an attempt to go back to the original concept that men protect their families and women take care of them. By opening doors for women, holding out seats, paying for the dinner, keeping the girl safe, men show the girls that they are able to "protect" and provide a safe environment. I know some women that react negatively to chivalry in the sense that they dislike the assumption that they could not take of themselves (ie: cannot open the door for themselves, cannot pay for dinner by themselves)

My thoughts on this: We are animals. Our "cavemen" behaviors with the opposite gender are the same as they are today except that we want to seem civil and learned. We will attempt to provide equality amongst the genders despite the fact that even biologically our roles are different. Only when this biological difference can be overcome can both men and women be completely equal.

But UNTIL then, as Hans pointed out, I believe that a woman slapping a man is just as bad as a man slapping a woman. I do not know who is at fault in this scenario since the man did provoke her.

 

[SunnyParmar]

I'm going to agree with Waleed and Summy on this one. Hitting a women is just cowardly. It goes as the same when some roid monkey challenges a kid to a fight. No one should be hitting anyone. Plain and simple. Women loose out on WAY more then men do. We go screw around and guys call themselves pimps. A girl does it and we all know what the first thing that's going to come to your mind is. Think of your mom's or sisters. Next thing you know guys are going to be asking for maternity leave. Equal rights eh?

 

[HarmanSingh]

Having equal rights does not mean having the right to assault both men and women. If you are so into protecting equal rights for women, go march with women for issues that actually matter to them, or start an "Assault women for equal rights rallly" and see how many women show up. This guy was completely out of line, and has a definite problem in his way of thinking to raise his hand to a woman.

Respecting women does not mean you think they are weak and need help. Neither does chivalry. It means you respect the sacrifices women have made, you respect the immeasurable importance of women in society and you respect their strength in order to endure all the crap men have given them over all of time. It is sad when our culture has taught us assaulting women is funny or acceptable because "they want equal rights."

Only a fool would think women are weak. When they go through 9 months of caring for a child in their womb, give birth, take care of the child, nurture it, teach the child its moral and ethical values and are really the rocks of the home, and work long hours how could anyone call a woman weak? So, it is most def. not that I think women are weak and need to be protected. It is that I realize their sacrifices and appreciate women for their internal beauty in order to endure so much hate from men from all of time and still maintain their poise and power. I think of all the strong women through history and all of the strong women in my life and would be disgusted if a man would raise his hand at any of them simply because they were "out of line".

Disabled people want equal rights too, I guess you guys would be cool slapping them around so they feel "equal" too...

 

[Summy]

Harman speaking like a true gursikh. Sunny is also right.

Kinnell, women are not even close to the same in equal pay, and equality in the work force. In EACH AND EVERY country in the world, there are large disparities between pay for men and women. Women have less jobs at upper management, hence the glass ceiling anaology, and women are consistently treated as second class individuals even in the most progressive of socieities. EQUAL RIGHTS is much different than the topic that we are discussing. Equal rights is legal and granted to everyone via the constitution... slapping a woman is a moral issue. Thats why Hans's post was funny.

I can't believe I am arguing whether men should be able to beat women. And people say our south asian culture promotes violence against women huh? It has nothing to do with Chivarly. Even if I am married, have kids, have no interest physically, emotionally or on any other level with a women, Im not going to slap her or hit her.

Harman put it beautifully, the immeasureable importance to our society, their continous sacrifice, and their ongoing internal beauty is what we rsepect women for on a whole. It is not the implication that we are somehow different than women. I am not saying that because we dont slap back, that we are somehow differenet, ot superior; we dont slap back out of respect. Respect for the sacrifices of their lives to serve our society.

Kinnell, You want to claim it is somehow empowering to rid society of all differences between man and woman. That includes physical abuse. We will never be the exact same as women. WE will NEVER be able to rid the differences between us and them. They will continue to be our providers, our nuturers, our strength. So you respect these differences. You acknowledge without implying any sort of inferiority. We are not implying that they are inferior when we dont slap back....


When he slapped back you didnt say "HMMM SHE MUST BE SO HAPPY, EQUALITY".... If that man appreciated the role of women in our society, their sacrifices and their strength he wouldnt of even thgouht about raising his hand...

Having said that, it is NO SURPRISE THAT A MAN WHO LOOKS LIKE THAT, who is comprised of that body was willing to lift his hand on a woman. I bet you if a man of a normal body composition slapped him, he wouldnt have touched him back. The guys who believe that stuff are cowards, typically would act different if the tables were switched

 

[pluthra]

Having equal rights does not mean having the right to assault both men and women. If you are so into protecting equal rights for women, go march with women for issues that actually matter to them, or start an "Assault women for equal rights rallly" and see how many women show up. This guy was completely out of line, and has a definite problem in his way of thinking to raise his hand to a woman.

Harman i gotta that was amazing!!!!! actually ur whole post is great!! and personally i dont see the point of either of them raising their hands....but wat is this? like whats the background of what was going on is it like a show-well either way it was stupid...both need to reevaluate their anger violence goes way beyond the whole male vs female issue... some people really gotta just reevaluate their anger andd how they deal w/it

 

[Nikhil]

Just a thought:

What is the concept of "Chivalry" based on? Harman, you've said that this does not equate to thinking as if women are weak, but is this concept an inherent submission into thinking that? Or is it merely a tactic in social courtship as Kinnell outlined?

Is there some established concept (over the history of civilization) of reverse gratitude paid to men? No, I believe there is not.

I'm personally not a fan of these types of shows. I can careless for "reality tv" because it's all scripted glorified circumstance that draws attention from people craving extreme emotional output.

I do not support hitting women ever. I have some very conservative beliefs on that. But at the same time, I don't support a woman hitting a man. If we are all supposed to be equal, why have we created special circumstance and exception?

We respect women because they develop life. It's as simple as that. Whether you're talking about pregnancy or child development, women develop beings of the next generation. But we respect men because they create opportunities for the development to begin in the first place!

We focus on the genteel nature of women, and their ability to heal and soothe. We focus on the exact opposite for men. Without either, we don't have equilibrium.

So, not being able to hit someone back goes against the "equilibrium" notion, YET this dynamic reaction is countered by morality and the way we have valued female attributes/characteristics over male attributes and qualities.

Again, I respect women. But beyond that, if we claim to all be equal than we claim to look at one another beyond gender. It's about the being and soul, NOT the cosmetics and physical/anatomical difference.

This is why I agree with Hans. It goes both ways!

 

[kinnell]

Let me re-iterate my points. Feel free to debate the points I make because honestly, I really do value the opportunity to do so.

I am essentially recycling my points to better make my arguments.

Equality/Equal Rights is UTOPIAN
Yes. There can never be such thing as true equality. Why? Because we are biologically different. Through evolution, we have been given separate roles in society and family. In addition, we are different physically and mentally.

You can expect that women will not get the same pay as men especially in jobs like construction where physical strength is necessary. If a woman cannot lift a certain amount of weight, why should she get the same pay as a man who can? There are roles where men and women have the same level of capabilities and I do believe that women and men should get the same pay/benefits if that is the case. Look at athletics - there are separate sports for both men and women because there is a discrepancy in performance on both sides.

Summy, I stated that we, as society, try to achieve equality in trying to provide equal pay/benefits. I simply think that until the biological difference is settled, which it never will be, true equality will never be reached because the ideal is utopian.

The issue at hand is of RESPECT, not VIOLENCE.

What is worse - a man killing a woman or a woman killing a man? Neither. If a woman is trying to kill you, you would defend yourself and in the process, she may be killed. (Don't pretend that you can try to disarm her without doing her bodily arm while getting away without scratches because it's harder than you think). If the action threatened your safety, it is violence and the consequences should be the same.

However, in this case: A woman slapped a man. It's less about violence. The dude's safety was not compromised. It's more about respect. The man was disrespected. Most slaps in the similar matter are about disrespect. And yes, I agree Summy, the slap is a moral issue.

Men should not be beating women. There is no need for argument, Summy. But should women be beating men? No, they shouldn't. But as you said, Summy, slapping is a moral issue since it really does no harm except disrespect someone. Men, morally, should never slap women. If my girl slapped me, I would never slap her back. If she tried to shoot me down with an AK-47, all rules are off.


The argument has been skewed. Are you guys serious?

We made the argument that VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN = VIOLENCE AGAINST MEN in that both should hold the same consequences. Once again, if you skipped by previous points, slapping is not violence, but more about respect. This means violence means doing physical harm that could affect safety aka (being sliced up with a katana).

Yes, I say that a woman beating up a man really badly is just as bad as a man beating up a woman really badly. But in no way am I promoting that men beating women I do not even understand how this argument was even made because it is an insult to common sense. They are just as bad, but I am not saying that we should beat women.

Morality is the issue here

Summy, I have stated that women/men are biologically different and that it really is impossible for men and women to be equal. This does not mean they should be respected differently, because RESPECT is an issue of MORALITY.

I do not feel inferior to women, nor do I feel superior. We have separate roles in society/family. Men have traditionally brought the food to the table and protected the family and women have nurtured and cared for the family. However, times are changing, Summy. We do see that both husband and wife bring food to the table and provide protection and both husband and wife taking care of the children and providing them with love.

Essentially, we are arguing on not what a man should do BIOLOGICALLY or LEGALLY, but what a man should do MORALLY. Morally, no man should ever hit a woman. But legally, if the man was defending himself, would you make a case for that? What if his own mother was trying to do physical harm with ill intentions to him?

Finally, I want to hear your thoughts.

Who we are and how we think are a result of our upbringings and no matter what, we all have different opinions about everything. I want to hear your thoughts and perspectives. I am open to having my opinions changed if there is enough logical arguments to convince me. I am not THAT stubborn.

 

[HarmanSingh]

First, I agree with you on some of your points. It is true that women are biologically and physically different. I do not think I ever stated that. It would be absurd to act as if men and women are 100% the same, because they are not. Generally, men are physically stronger than women. There is no doubt to that. And for sure, if a woman is incapable of being a construction worker where she cannot lift weight (although their certainly are many women who can and do), then she should not get equal pay or even the job. The thing Women?s rights activists want, and I do think you understand this, is equal pay for equal jobs. For instance, even women in business, who are plenty capable of running the finances or day to day operations of a high profile company, do not have the same salaries as their male counterparts. This is the rub with women?s activist. You will rarely see women arguing for 100 pound women to be allowed to work at a heavy duty construction site where they have to lift hundreds of pounds every day. What you will see is women striving for equal pay in jobs that women deserve equal pay for.

To your next point, you are right, the guy?s safety was NOT compromised. So lets drop the whole crazy lady with an AK47 to your head argument there. The guy was not in any danger and was not defending himself. You stated it was about respect. I think ?respect? is code for ?I will never let a b1tch talk to me like that in public because I don?t want to be disrespected in public by a person who is not my equal.? He was defending his cocky ego, because he has subscribed to this ideology that a man is supposed to keep his women in line and treat her as nothing less than a child. Just as a father makes sure his child doesn?t talk to him disrespectfully, this guy was making sure she didn?t talk to him disrespectfully in order to keep his credibility with his friends. And if you think this dude would slap Kimbo Slice or Floyd Mayweather you are kidding yourself. He took advantage of the fact that she was physically unable to defend herself and attacked her to keep his stupid little pride.

For me, I think of it something like this. I respect the hell out of my father and would never hit him back even if he were beating me silly. Never. Even if I was in the wrong, I would never do it because of the respect I have for him. The same way, I would never slap a woman or condone it to keep ?respect?, because I appreciate everything women have contributed to society and the lack of credit they receive. Rather than appreciating women for what they have done and who they are, we degrade them and treat them like second class citizens to this day. So understanding that, I would never hit back. I don?t care if its on TV and it makes me look like a punk or not, it just wouldn?t happen. So its not about feeling inferior to women, it is about respecting women for their beauty and sacrifice.

And we got to the point where we had to actually post about the immorality of assaulting women (that still blows my mind) when Hans said, ?If a woman has the right to hit another man, then the principle of equal rights dictates that a man should have the right to hit another woman,? and you among others said you agree with Hans. I agree that if a women assaults a man and he is in danger and fights back, then okay, he has legal grounds to defend himself. But like you said, this was about ?respect?. Or more so, hatred of women masked under the name of respect.

Nikhil, you said ?We focus on the genteel nature of women, and their ability to heal and soothe. We focus on the exact opposite for men. Without either, we don't have equilibrium?. See, I kind of disagree there. One of the great things about women is their ability to do both. A women can take on the role of mother and father much easier and with more success than man can of mother and father. Often times, especially in today?s world where men are not in their family?s lives, women are forced to be the nurturer and the disciplinarian to their children. For that reason alone, I feel like women are the backbone of society, not men.

 

[Basim]

Woah, you guys are writing paragraphs taking this issue beyond what it is.

1) This is a reality TV show
2) These are actors/actresses who sign a contract and are paid
3) There is an entire production crew & company behind this
4) Everything & everyone on this show is governed by a legality set forth in the contract they sign prior to the episode being filmed.

The simple solution to this is to see if the actresses' character on this reality show is physically allowed to touch the contestants in a harmful manner (all according to what the contract states). If she is allowed to do so, then the actor is at fault.. he will be fired/not paid.. and should be escorted off by security/the police. If she is not allowed to do so, then the actress is at fault.. she will be fired.. and should be escorted off by security/the police.

Depending on who was at fault according to the contract justifies if the actor's reaction was valid or not. Case closed.

By the way, those of you discussing the moral issue of whether a male can slap a female or vice versa.. you need to consider the scenario that without justified reason: If some random bum off the street was to follow you around cussing you out and then slap you across the face in public (for no reason).. would it matter if that bum was male or female? Would you just take it?


~ Basim
"Daniel-san, never put passion before principle. Even if win, you lose.." - Mr. Miyagi

 

[Kamran786]

That was hillarious but that retarded women had it coming.

 

[Nikhil]

Harman I do agree with your points. I understand that women are capable of being both soothing and strong. Men are as well, yet I was merely focusing on what the majority sees or rather how we usually characterize each gender. There are some traits that you simply identify with both races and that's what I was utilizing. Yes, I agree with you that women play a vital role in stablizing society, but Men do as well. In order to have a sturdy backbone, you need the transverse AND spinal processes One cannot be greater than the other, if balance is desired.

 

[Saleem]

Let's muddy up the waters a bit more: The draft! In the US, when a guy turns 18, he has to register with the Selective Services System (SSS) aka the DRAFT. Women don't, they are ineligible. We are all citizens of this country, and equal by the rights and suffrage given to us, why shouldn't both men and women be drafted?

 

[Kamran786]

Let's muddy up the waters a bit more: The draft! In the US, when a guy turns 18, he has to register with the Selective Services System (SSS) aka the DRAFT. Women don't, they are ineligible. We are all citizens of this country, and equal by the rights and suffrage given to us, why shouldn't both men and women be drafted?

I agree on that for sure.