How should we view the bhangra of today?

[Nish Swami]

Hi BTF,

I'm part of a South Asian discussion group, and in one of our discussions, the American bhangra circuit came up. One girl (who is Punjabi) argued that bhangra in America has separated itself from its cultural roots, and teams may not have the "right" to call what they're doing bhangra given the deviations from traditional bhangra. In addition, people who are not Punjabi make up a reasonably large portion of teams (especially on college campuses), individuals who did not grow up around Punjabi culture and may not understand bhangra within its cultural understanding.

On one hand, I see the point she's trying to make. Many mixes today incorporate Western music, many teams make variations of certain moves or include a small number of moves that are not even bhangra. Many others use and support gimmicks for the purpose of the entertainment value.

On the other hand, I also understand art constantly evolves and redefines itself. Is it fair to completely dismiss what we do when many of the same underlying principles remain? We still include traditional segments, emphasize form, and respect the dance form. So should we understand this as a natural evolution of the art form given the changing times, or as something completely different?

As a person who is not of Punjabi heritage, her point about individuals not growing up around Punjabi culture seemed especially poignant. As a member and former captain of a Bhangra team, I made it a point to read about the history of bhangra, and explain to the rest of the team how bhangra has come to be in its current form (at least, from what I could gather from reading lots of btf posts In addition, when we teach moves, we frequently rely on videos of Indian teams (ex: Khalsa College) in order to improve our form. We also strongly reinforce dancing etiquette (don't EVER kick a pagh, don't disrespect props etc), and we screen our music to avoid offensive lyrics. But at the end of the day, I'm not Punjabi. I'm not someone who has grown up in that context. Is it enough to be respectful if I can't understand the dance in its own cultural context? As a follow-up, are we as non-Punjabis allowed to "innovate" the art form as well, or is that only allowed by people of Punjabi heritage?

As you can tell, the discussion today brought up a lot of different thoughts in my head, and I thought I'd ask the Bhangra community to help me form my opinions. I want to bring this up not as a way of starting a massive fight or accusation against what we do, but as a more serious intellectual discussion. Have we departed from the traditional art that we're no longer doing what we think we're doing? Is this even a serious concern, given that art forms naturally evolve? And if it's not considered an acceptable evolution, is this appropriation?

 

[Howie Magz]

Damn then I have definitely been appropriating the culture then lmfaoo! This is America.....we are revolutionizing this Punjabi art form and introducing Punjabi heritage to the masses. If an individual thinks what we are doing is not Bhangra then I really don't know what to tell them. People should be happy that non-punjabis are participating in their culture. I think there is nothing wrong with the way the North American Bhangra Circuit has operated. I think you are honestly over thinking this way too much. People dance for many different reasons and each person should be entitled to their own opinion and reasons as to why they dance. I guess that individual who thinks what the North American Bhangra has been dancing what they don't considered "Bhangra" then damn we host a lot of fusion dance competitions every year.

 

[angeblah]

Obviously, I'm a non-Punjabi. And like you, I pay my respects by doing research on the history, dance, and music (hi Gibb). Yet I know that no amount of reading can measure up to the understanding, or rather instinct, gained from growing up Punjabi and experiencing all of its joys and hardships.

I'm perfectly okay with that.

Here's how I see it. What largely defines Bhangra, like any other dance form, is 1) its vocabulary and 2) its social context.

As Bhangra makes its way internationally, the vocabulary, or steps, must and have been largely maintained (i.e. even though there are variations on fasla, jhummar, and so on, the physical movements are recognizable as "Bhangra")

Social context is then what gives a dance form its bite, its purpose besides just being aesthetically pleasing. The location, people, and culture all shape the stories and ideas are told through the dance. You remove these key factors, and yes, your peer is right-- it is difficult to recapitulate those emotions that Punjabis must feel when they see Bhangra in their homeland.

But I think it's a waste to think of North American Bhangra as needing to live up to "traditional Bhangra." Bringing Bhangra to our soil necessitates this deviation and evolution that Nish mentioned. I don't mean that we should disregard tradition; rather, we should challenge ourselves to use Bhangra to express those stories and ideas that are relevant for our society and generation of dancers.

Indeed, as a circuit, some of our advancements may be superficial (e.g. complex formations and showy gimmicks). But on a more personal note, our circuit's high level of athleticism and relatively large female powerhouses gave me a sense of empowerment and connection with its dancers that traditional Bhangra wasn't capable of doing. And if North American Bhangra can continue to find new ways to speak to a wider audience, I can't help but think that "different" is a powerful, positive thing.


----

And Nish, thanks for bringing up this topic; it's actually been on my mind quite often. May give more coherent thoughts later...when it's not 4AM and there's a cup of coffee in my hand.

 

[angeblah]

Damn then I have definitely been appropriating the culture then lmfaoo!

Lolllll we should just stop dancing.

 

[ramv88]

The question "How should we view the bhangra of today"- answer--- however you want to view it.


We should not do bhangra just to make another person happy......instead we should do that to make ourselves happy (#yolo). To your punjabi friend who made that argument that bhangra has separated itself from its cultural roots----that's how she views bhangra which is what she is entitled to. The question I have with that is--- is she referring to recorded music or live music---because if she said it to recorded music, my answer is there is no such thing as a music team that does 100% traditional bhangra because the second you put a hip hop beat here or a trap beat there or a drake verse here or a jay z verse there--- it's not traditional at all. Plus music teams have to capitulate to what the judging rubric is. What's judged at Motor City is def not the same thing done @ Bruin Bhangra. She should probably just follow live competitions for which I do hope that the NA circuit offers more opportunities for live teams to compete at which would def help other teams either music or live on their techniques/form/etc. (Where you at DOB, Circle City, Any future dc comp,Windy City)


The other thing I wanted to mention is her "argument" that there are more non punjabi people getting involved. So???? Isn't that a great thing to know.....that people outside the Punjabi culture are interested in knowing more about Bhangra? It may not be as graceful sometimes from the start execution wise but at least for the most part that I have seen--- they are trying to learn for those who don't really have people to personally guide them through this. I'm a south indian tamil brahmin who got into the circuit mainly because of my interest in singing and dhol and was blessed to see so many great punjabi musicians perform live at shows and competitions---def didn't stop this dosa/sambar loving gabroo from trying to learning to dance/sing in punjabi/and play dhol. There are many non punjabi/indian people who are doing great things in the name of bhangra.


- A few non-punjabis/non-indian dancers in the North American circuit I know are captains of well-known co-ed/all guys/all girls that are even better than most of punjabi dancers that I know. A couple of em just responded to this thread. One non indian was in a competition 2 months ago hosted by a DC Academy and he received the best dancer award which was well-deserved.


- I know a guy who is passionately trying to spread bhangra to places like Argentina, Mexico and even Singapore by creating an app that teaches many people about the dance and teaches them properly----he's a non punjabi.


As far as what you are doing and how you are doing it....seems like you are doing fine.....you have the right attitude which is being respectful. However you can't understand EVERYTHING about bhangra in one day. Heck, I still have a lot to learn on my end...but at least you should have that mindset/interest that there is always something to learn (from the reason why the dance is done a certain way, different dhol beats, the lyrics of each boli) Keep asking questions to those people that you observe who demonstrate that they might know a thing or two about bhangra/dhol/music aspects/etc.


Hope this perspective helps.






- Dholi Ram
PS- I will always love dosa and sambar

 

[siddyp]

Hi BTF,

I'm part of a South Asian discussion group, and in one of our discussions, the American bhangra circuit came up. One girl (who is Punjabi) argued that bhangra in America has separated itself from its cultural roots, and teams may not have the "right" to call what they're doing bhangra given the deviations from traditional bhangra.

Folks like Faizan and Gibb have come on here and said this, and I completely agree with them. Watch videos from the 60's, then 70's, then 80's and you'll see a transformation. Nothing done in India today or even 10 years ago looks remotely close to what Bhangra looked like in its "cultural roots" <-- using this girls words. Even if we were to consider what was done in North America when bhangra videos first started being put on youtube, versus what is done today, there is a huge transformation.

Please send this girl this thread - http://bhangrateamsforum.com/discuss/main-bhangra-discussion/a-visual-history-of-bhangra/

And to anyone who's new to bhangra and wants to learn, ^^ this is a gold mine.

In North America:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4qxZUZ3Lr4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCaAKdjtqQs

^^ that's one teams transformation in 3/4 years. More complex choreography on all fronts, more athleticism, more power, more attention to detail, more entertaining, more everything.

Same thing with the transformation in India from bhangra's "cultural roots" to what it is today. More complex, more athleticism, more power, more attention to detail, more entertaining, more everything.

Some people may want to watch bhangra in its "cultural roots" but the masses in North America, and those who attend competitions in Punjab want to be blown away.

People pay money to go to a show to watch something special. No one wants to watch something that they can do themselves. That's why professional athletes are so revered. Whether they watch NJ at E8 2010, SGPD at E8 2011, or SPD at MCB 2016, those audiences watched something special. Everyone was on their feet. Every dollar they spent was worth it. You'll find some people in those audiences that wished NJ and SGPD "only did bhangra on dhol!" But that certainly wasn't the majority.

Point being, if we as a whole want bhangra to continue to be alive, the dance must continue to get better and better. We aren't doing hip hop. We aren't doing garba/raas. "The moment you stop growing, you start dying." Ain't nobody tryna see bhangra die.

 

[Howie Magz]

It's all Angela's fault because she had to put Chinese ribbons into the DRP set. See now you caused the girl at Yale to get upset. Also thanks for the shoutout Ram!

 

[siddyp]

Hi BTF,

In addition, people who are not Punjabi make up a reasonably large portion of teams (especially on college campuses), individuals who did not grow up around Punjabi culture and may not understand bhangra within its cultural understanding.

SO TEACH THOSE PEOPLE THAT AREN'T PUNJABI!

 

[hardeep_singh]

when punjabi kids in the circuit themselves have no idea what's proper, no one has the right to judge non-punjabis in the circuit, non-punjabis might even be more respectful to the art form.

 

[rajkaran]

Been a hot minute since I been on here.

On the other hand, I also understand art constantly evolves and redefines itself. Is it fair to completely dismiss what we do when many of the same underlying principles remain? We still include traditional segments, emphasize form, and respect the dance form. So should we understand this as a natural evolution of the art form given the changing times, or as something completely different?

No, it's not fair to dismiss your contribution. Art, regardless of the performer, is meant to be interpreted differently by everyone. Hmm lemme think of an analogy- do you know those places that have paint nights and everyone drinks wine while copying the painting in the front of the room? By the end of the night, everyone's painting will be of the same thing because everyone is using the same colors and picture, but not a single one will look the same. Who's to say one particular painting by the end of the night cannot be a success if the artist isn't like everyone else in the room?

As I see it, it is a natural evolution of the art form BUT also the beginning of a branch point. I say we're contributing to is Indo-American competitive/collegiate bhangra- not the bhangra form that Khalsa College is part of. This is our scene over here. It's distinct from what's in Punjab. We get to do what we like with it. And I'd also argue our scene has branched apart, too. Collegiate, Bwood/Fusion, Independent, Live, Gimmicky...there are circuits within the damn circuit.

I'm not someone who has grown up in that context. Is it enough to be respectful if I can't understand the dance in its own cultural context? As a follow-up, are we as non-Punjabis allowed to "innovate" the art form as well, or is that only allowed by people of Punjabi heritage?

Of course you can be respectful and it seems like you've done a thorough job of it. But I will say it's impossible to relate 100%...unless you truly did grow up living the folk life as described in many bhangra songs. I certainly did not lol. As for the follow-up question, I'd say you're allowed to innovate...but whether or not your innovation will be accepted is a different question. Perhaps this brings up the convo of trust and who is the "guardian" of the bhangra art form you're trying to innovate. Let's assume Punjabi people presume the role of "owning" the bhangra art form. If they trust you, you'll get to innovate and it'll be acceptable. Whether or not I like this viewpoint or system is a different story...haha. I self-identify as Punjabi (amongst other things) and tried to innovate the scene, but very few people who I thought were influential in the scene at the time trusted me so my innovations were not integrated.

All that being said, I have zero problem with anyone dancing or innovating bhangra.

Hope this was helpful in formulating your opinion!

 

[amancheema]

with a grain of salt and a bottle of jack

 

[GSingh]

when punjabi kids in the circuit themselves have no idea what's proper, no one has the right to judge non-punjabis in the circuit, non-punjabis might even be more respectful to the art form.

mostly this.

 

[Waleed]

Everything evolves.


Solid thread!

 

[faizan]

bhangra from india has in a way separated itself from its cultural roots (folk dances which have specific meanings and occaisions vs. dancing on a stage for entertainment) The very essence of folk dancing in northern india/pakistan has been lost, more so in india than in pakistan...so let's talk about bhangra in india and start from there.
[/size]
[/size]When did bhangra in india start? If you think it's some ancient dance then you don't know the history...i refuse to be held to a standard, which isn't even the standard. Because there is no standard.

 

[Howie Magz]

Can we all just dance and compete against each other again I think this thread has gone on long enough. How about them clowns out in the woods....I think we should do something about people dressing up as clowns these days. It's really creepy....Also if any team out there is thinking about doing a clown gimmick or a water bottle challenge gimmick stop yourself now.

 

[H.S]

If a team can actually do the waterbottle gimmick and nail it.....that's pretty impressive.

 

[Gsimz]

Really fast and hi hats

 

[ramv88]

If a team can actually do the waterbottle gimmick and nail it.....that's pretty impressive.

^This

- Dholi Ram

 

[OzSingh]

A lot of Punjabis in the West seem to be under some delusion that Bhangra is a sacred art passed down generation to generation and must be venerated within that context, somewhat akin to Bharatnatyam. The reality is that Bhangra's cultural context within Punjab is anything but that. The dance itself is relatively recent - it only sort of came into modern form post-Partition as an amalgamation of the various folk dances found within Punjab, and has been significantly iterated upon within Punjab since.


Additionally, while folk music and dance have been part and parcel of Punjabi culture for millennia, it hasn't exactly occupied the same role it does today. Singing boliyan and dancing at a whim for fun during parties was commonplace, sure, but performing arts was restricted to certain castes, that too those which were considered "lower" socially. The Marasis and Baazigars immediately come to mind. Because of this, performance of such art for show was sometimes seen as beneath that which a proper Punjabi Jatt would do. But this goes completely contra to how many Punjabis today conceive of these arts and cultural relics!


All in all goes to say...the historical context of Bhangra within Punjab is *very* muddled, and as such, nobody should really be laying claims to it culturally to the exclusion of others. I personally enjoy dancing folk and watching the Indian team styles because I much prefer those aesthetically, but I don't think of teams on, say, the college circuit (which are predominantly non-Punjabi and "modern") as doing anything damaging to the spirit of Bhangra, as seen by the countless dancers of non-Punjabi origin who have contributed significantly to Bhangra in North America in general.


I would say, though, that certain things found on the circuit perhaps related to the broadening of Bhangra beyond Punjabis grind my gears, e.g., people putting dharmic (Sikh religious) songs on serious topics into mixes just for the purpose of a dope beat (alas I've seen this been done by some Punjabi Sikhs themselves), the insistence on using Bhangra as some "unifier" for South Asian culture to the detriment of regional ethnic identity (i.e., "Bhangra is an Indian art, you should consider yourself Indian not Punjabi, we are all one people!1!!!111!" type nonsense), the weird insistence on tokenism wherein non-South Asians are lauded ad nauseam just for not being brown independent of their skill as a dancer (I always find this one interesting to me, for my relatives back in Punjab a white/Asian/black person doing Bhangra would be just as surprising as a Tamil/Marathi/Gujrati person doing it), and the proliferation of certain vulgar Punjabi buzzwords among people who don't even know what it means just to look cool (again, many Punjabis are probably to blame for starting this trend in the first place), just to name a few.


...But none of these really have to do with your initial inquiry. In all honesty I would say you're worried about nothing and agree w/most of the other responses re: American Bhangra circuit being its own thing, being conscious of this sort of thing is good enough, evolution of art occurring naturally, etc., etc.