ranjit singh
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Iverson to DETROIT
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[Sher] Imran
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Its not gonna do anything, Detroit is still old. Stuckey and AI will be good to rotate as your 1 guard with Rip playing 2, but AI isnt exactly a defensive player or a team player for that matter. He will get you points in a hurry, but thats not Detroit ball. Dont know why they gave up a solid shooter and a 6th man for 2 years of AI
ranjit singh
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1) $35 million in cap room at the end of the year[Sher] Imran said:
2) a competitive superstar dying for a championship
3) $35 million in cap room at the end of the year
also, there is a big possibilty that denver will buy out mcdyess's contract and he will return to detroit
HarmanSingh
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No one in Detroit was really expecting a championship this year. I was expecting a return to the ECF and a loss. This trade does a couple of things:
1. AI's contract is up at the end of the year. With him and Rasheed Wallace's contract expiring the Pistons have around 35 million dollars up for the FA market. So worst case scenario, the experiment with AI fails and we get to start over with a top tier FA and a core of Stuckey, Rip, Tayshaun and some other young pieces in Afflalo, Amir and Maxiell. If we kept Chauncey, we were stuck with this roster for 4 more years because he signed an extension. A lot of people might say AI is old, but he is just 1 year older than Chauncey and with a shorter contract.
2. Word is McDyess' is going to be cut by the Nuggets and the Pistons will re-sign him. So it will essentially be Billups and Cheick Samb for AI. We retain a key part of our bench.
3. We are now faster and can push the ball like crazy with an athletic lineup. The starting lineup can now be:
PG- Stuckey
SG- AI
SF- Rip
PF- Amir
C- Sheed
That is an incredibly fast and dynamic offense and will pressure a lot of teams defensively with their speed. And then a bench of Afflalo, Walter Hermann, Tayshaun, Maxiell, McDyess and Kwame Brown is one of the best in the game. Also, one key weakness with this team was its inability to create dribble penetration with Chauncey, as he preferred to shoot jumpers and run pick and rolls. AI will make shots for Rip, Tay, Sheed and Stuckey with his penetration. A backcourt of Stuckey and AI will create havoc on defenses with the way they attack the basket.
4. Brings excitement back to Detroit basketball with a superstar in AI.
1. AI's contract is up at the end of the year. With him and Rasheed Wallace's contract expiring the Pistons have around 35 million dollars up for the FA market. So worst case scenario, the experiment with AI fails and we get to start over with a top tier FA and a core of Stuckey, Rip, Tayshaun and some other young pieces in Afflalo, Amir and Maxiell. If we kept Chauncey, we were stuck with this roster for 4 more years because he signed an extension. A lot of people might say AI is old, but he is just 1 year older than Chauncey and with a shorter contract.
2. Word is McDyess' is going to be cut by the Nuggets and the Pistons will re-sign him. So it will essentially be Billups and Cheick Samb for AI. We retain a key part of our bench.
3. We are now faster and can push the ball like crazy with an athletic lineup. The starting lineup can now be:
PG- Stuckey
SG- AI
SF- Rip
PF- Amir
C- Sheed
That is an incredibly fast and dynamic offense and will pressure a lot of teams defensively with their speed. And then a bench of Afflalo, Walter Hermann, Tayshaun, Maxiell, McDyess and Kwame Brown is one of the best in the game. Also, one key weakness with this team was its inability to create dribble penetration with Chauncey, as he preferred to shoot jumpers and run pick and rolls. AI will make shots for Rip, Tay, Sheed and Stuckey with his penetration. A backcourt of Stuckey and AI will create havoc on defenses with the way they attack the basket.
4. Brings excitement back to Detroit basketball with a superstar in AI.
I would chime in w/ analysis but Ranjit and Harman already covered everything.....and those are all reasons why I love this deal....bottom line is it keeps us competitive as well as provides us w/ more flexibility than basically any other team in the league as the huge free agent class of 2010 is upon us....the likes of Lebron, Wade, Amare, etc. Even in 2009, there are some quality guys out there, namely Boozer and Okur
The only other thing I would like to add is in response to Imran..... we have the following "really young" guys in our REGULAR PLAYING ROTATION: Stuckey, Afflalo, Maxiell, Amir J....w/ the oldest being Maxiell at 25. Then you add Prince at 28 and Hermann at 29....mixed in w/ the vets: Sheed, Rip, Ivo, 'Dyess (if we get him back). How can you consider that old? Thats a good mix of youngsters, guys coming into their prime, and vets.
Again, we are still contenders, but the future is even brighter. Joe D is going to add a HUGE name or two in the next couple of offseasons.
The only other thing I would like to add is in response to Imran..... we have the following "really young" guys in our REGULAR PLAYING ROTATION: Stuckey, Afflalo, Maxiell, Amir J....w/ the oldest being Maxiell at 25. Then you add Prince at 28 and Hermann at 29....mixed in w/ the vets: Sheed, Rip, Ivo, 'Dyess (if we get him back). How can you consider that old? Thats a good mix of youngsters, guys coming into their prime, and vets.
Again, we are still contenders, but the future is even brighter. Joe D is going to add a HUGE name or two in the next couple of offseasons.
As a follow-up, here is some analysis from TrueHoop via ESPN.com....this is VERY exciting for Pistons fans!!:
The Pistons add up-tempo Iverson -- in a contract year -- when he will be eager to prove that it was no fluke he made it to the Finals in 2001. That's just an hors d'oeuvre.
Down, the road the Pistons becomes the driving force of big-time free agency as soon as Iverson's contract comes off the books next summer. The Pistons will combine a winning environment, one of the most respected general managers in the game, and -- depending on salary cap levels that are yet to be set, and extensions that may yet be given to existing Pistons -- likely enough cap space to sign two free agent players to max contracts over the next summers of 2009 and 2010.
Feast your eyes on this list of players who will be available. 2010 free agents include LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire, Ray Allen, Tyson Chandler, Manu Ginobili, Richard Jefferson, Joe Johnson, Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming, Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki and Michael Redd.
The two that jump out to me are, of course, Chris Bosh and LeBron James. They played together nicely on Team USA, and now Dumars can at least entertain the notion of signing not one of those two, but both.
A team that suspects one of those players might leave via free agency in 2010 might be compelled to realize some value for the player by dealing with a team under the cap like the Pistons in the summer of 2009. (The NBA's rules about matching up salaries in trades only apply to teams that are over the salary cap. Once Iverson's big contract is off the books next summer, the Pistons will be able to deal freely.)
Today Joe Dumars has parlayed a 32-year-old point guard into a rental of Allen Iverson, and the bedrock players of the Pistons' long-term future.
While there is significant risk -- the Pistons with Billups were contenders this year, and they make take a step back -- this may well come to be seen as the greatest move yet from one of the NBA's sharpest general managers.
The Pistons add up-tempo Iverson -- in a contract year -- when he will be eager to prove that it was no fluke he made it to the Finals in 2001. That's just an hors d'oeuvre.
Down, the road the Pistons becomes the driving force of big-time free agency as soon as Iverson's contract comes off the books next summer. The Pistons will combine a winning environment, one of the most respected general managers in the game, and -- depending on salary cap levels that are yet to be set, and extensions that may yet be given to existing Pistons -- likely enough cap space to sign two free agent players to max contracts over the next summers of 2009 and 2010.
Feast your eyes on this list of players who will be available. 2010 free agents include LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire, Ray Allen, Tyson Chandler, Manu Ginobili, Richard Jefferson, Joe Johnson, Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming, Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki and Michael Redd.
The two that jump out to me are, of course, Chris Bosh and LeBron James. They played together nicely on Team USA, and now Dumars can at least entertain the notion of signing not one of those two, but both.
A team that suspects one of those players might leave via free agency in 2010 might be compelled to realize some value for the player by dealing with a team under the cap like the Pistons in the summer of 2009. (The NBA's rules about matching up salaries in trades only apply to teams that are over the salary cap. Once Iverson's big contract is off the books next summer, the Pistons will be able to deal freely.)
Today Joe Dumars has parlayed a 32-year-old point guard into a rental of Allen Iverson, and the bedrock players of the Pistons' long-term future.
While there is significant risk -- the Pistons with Billups were contenders this year, and they make take a step back -- this may well come to be seen as the greatest move yet from one of the NBA's sharpest general managers.
Nirpaal
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I like the trade, definantly makes the east more fun to watch, although i admire what detroit did the past years...it was boring lol
AI still is one of the best players in the league, the melo and AI combo didnt work out, really to me all it does for denver is give them proper PG, and inserts JR smith into the starting lineup, but no way is that going to hold up against western powerhouses.
For detroit, alot of people are saying depth may be an issue because they lose dice, even if he doesnt come back, they still have depth depending on how what their lineup looks like. If Prince comes off the bench and they can work a solid rotation with him, it will give detroit a whole new look against eastern conference teams. As we all know, the east(excluding boston) is a toss up and anything can happen, but bringing in iverson not only gives them a big time scorer in the 4th, but also gives the players new hope considering other teams in the east (toronto, philly, chicago, etc) are teams that shook up their rosters.
If this works out, detroit is going to be a force, if it doesnt....say hello to another window of oppurtunity.. which is the free agent market
AI still is one of the best players in the league, the melo and AI combo didnt work out, really to me all it does for denver is give them proper PG, and inserts JR smith into the starting lineup, but no way is that going to hold up against western powerhouses.
For detroit, alot of people are saying depth may be an issue because they lose dice, even if he doesnt come back, they still have depth depending on how what their lineup looks like. If Prince comes off the bench and they can work a solid rotation with him, it will give detroit a whole new look against eastern conference teams. As we all know, the east(excluding boston) is a toss up and anything can happen, but bringing in iverson not only gives them a big time scorer in the 4th, but also gives the players new hope considering other teams in the east (toronto, philly, chicago, etc) are teams that shook up their rosters.
If this works out, detroit is going to be a force, if it doesnt....say hello to another window of oppurtunity.. which is the free agent market
Summy
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Pistons fans need to calm down. Firstly, its AI of 08, not 04. If he cant make it work with Carmelo Anthony, Martin, Nene and Camby, I doubt the likes of Stuckey and Amir Johnson are guys to get excited about if you are serious about winning now. You traded the most clutch PG in the game right now, and experince floor general, and you give the ball to an unexperience guard. I like Stuckeys intensity, but happens if he is injuried. How does he perform in the playoofs against the 1st unit and not coming out of the bench. I like the trade for one reason with the pistons... They are able to clear space, but I think the nuggets are the obvious winners.
Im going with Hollinger's analysis on this one:
1) Denver got the better player. Who would you rather have at that position. During the past two seasons, Billups has logged a player efficiency rating of 21.38 and 23.48, compared with 19.61 and 21.06 for Iverson. Throw in that Billups is a much better defensive player, has a superior durability track record and is a year younger, and there's no doubt which player you'd rather have going forward -- especially because Billups' savvy floor game and long-range shooting are likely to age much better than Iverson's speed-based approach.
Pistons fans are going to find out very quickly how many shots AI puts up and how the takes shots away from guys like stuckey and other younger guys. IN fact thats a reason why philly traded him. Stunting the growth of guys like Igudola.
Your also religating the bright stars of your team and a defensive gem in Prince to the bench. With a Stuckey, Hamilton, AI lineup, your team is severly undersized.
I liked this trade for maybe the future in the pistons are looking at a wade, or a marion etc.. But if you are talking about winning now, the nuggets got a champ, a guy who knows how to win, whereas the pistons got a guy in the twlight of his career.
This is not about hating on the pistons, even though I think they are overrated and only did well in a shitty eastern conference. I like their team better than last year's. I think walter hermann is an amazing find almost like a Jose Calderon find. I just wouldnt put the ball in the hands of a 2nd year guard with two guys on the wings who expect lots of shots a game.
I personally think that the trade that was rumored before that had billups, prince, mcdyess and someone else going to dnver for carmelo, i think it was nene and somebody, a lot better. The pistons become a much smaller team especially with prince coming off the bench. I dont think rip is a 3 guard in this league.
Time will tell, I think the nuggets won clearly, but I think a shake up was needed on both sides.
Im going with Hollinger's analysis on this one:
1) Denver got the better player. Who would you rather have at that position. During the past two seasons, Billups has logged a player efficiency rating of 21.38 and 23.48, compared with 19.61 and 21.06 for Iverson. Throw in that Billups is a much better defensive player, has a superior durability track record and is a year younger, and there's no doubt which player you'd rather have going forward -- especially because Billups' savvy floor game and long-range shooting are likely to age much better than Iverson's speed-based approach.
Pistons fans are going to find out very quickly how many shots AI puts up and how the takes shots away from guys like stuckey and other younger guys. IN fact thats a reason why philly traded him. Stunting the growth of guys like Igudola.
Your also religating the bright stars of your team and a defensive gem in Prince to the bench. With a Stuckey, Hamilton, AI lineup, your team is severly undersized.
I liked this trade for maybe the future in the pistons are looking at a wade, or a marion etc.. But if you are talking about winning now, the nuggets got a champ, a guy who knows how to win, whereas the pistons got a guy in the twlight of his career.
This is not about hating on the pistons, even though I think they are overrated and only did well in a shitty eastern conference. I like their team better than last year's. I think walter hermann is an amazing find almost like a Jose Calderon find. I just wouldnt put the ball in the hands of a 2nd year guard with two guys on the wings who expect lots of shots a game.
I personally think that the trade that was rumored before that had billups, prince, mcdyess and someone else going to dnver for carmelo, i think it was nene and somebody, a lot better. The pistons become a much smaller team especially with prince coming off the bench. I dont think rip is a 3 guard in this league.
Time will tell, I think the nuggets won clearly, but I think a shake up was needed on both sides.
HarmanSingh
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Direct quote from Summy on July 2nd: aha. Dumars exploded for a good reason. The Pistons are on their way down. They are going to be rebuilding soon. Billups is garbage, Stuckey is better. Wallace doesnt play until the pistons are down a game, and the guy that played with the most heart was McDyess a washed up old man.
Billups was benched during crucial times for a reason. Stuckey is your PG now. Hmmm, Nash, Paul, Williams, Bibby, Parker, Arenas, Iverson, Kidd, and maybe even Baron davis, are all better Point guards
Quotes from Summy today: You traded the most clutch PG in the game right now, and experince floor general, and you give the ball to an unexperience guard. Throw in that Billups is a much better defensive player, has a superior durability track record and is a year younger, and there's no doubt which player you'd rather have going forward -- especially because Billups' savvy floor game and long-range shooting are likely to age much better than Iverson's speed-based approach.
Tayshaun quote July 4th: an underrated SF? Oh you mean the guy who averaged 13 points in the regular season, BUT STEPPED up his game in the post season averaging.... 13 points? Yeah hes a defenseive player, but calm down, aint nobody underrating tayshaun prince.
Tayshaun quote from today: our also religating the bright stars of your team and a defensive gem in Prince to the bench.
lol, atleast be consistent man.
you were dogging billups over the summer and now you love him. i swear, you are just out to instigate and hate on any and everyone's teams for no reason. You were projecting the Raptors to win the title with the addition of JO'Neal...I think he is a little more washed up than AI.
This team was stale and Billups was a large reason why. The guy had no passion left and has no drive to win another title. He is locked up for 4 years and it will stunt the growth of Stuckey a lot more than AI, who will most likely be a 1 and done situation. AI is hungry for a title, and is now around the best team he has ever had. The Nuggets were terrible defensively and had horrible chemistry. This is a shakeup for sure, and we don't know how it will play out, but he will provide what the Pistons needed...a penetrating presence and a proven scorer. SO many times over the last couple seasons in the playoffs the Pistons couldn't buy a basket, as they lacked a stud scorer. We have it now with AI, and the defense around him will make up for his gambling nature on that side of the ball.
Tayshaun on the bench is not definite. The lineup could easily be:
AI/Stuckey
Rip/Afflalo
Prince/Hermann
Amir/McDyess (who will be re-signed)/Maxiell
Sheed/Kwame Brown
Billups was benched during crucial times for a reason. Stuckey is your PG now. Hmmm, Nash, Paul, Williams, Bibby, Parker, Arenas, Iverson, Kidd, and maybe even Baron davis, are all better Point guards
Quotes from Summy today: You traded the most clutch PG in the game right now, and experince floor general, and you give the ball to an unexperience guard. Throw in that Billups is a much better defensive player, has a superior durability track record and is a year younger, and there's no doubt which player you'd rather have going forward -- especially because Billups' savvy floor game and long-range shooting are likely to age much better than Iverson's speed-based approach.
Tayshaun quote July 4th: an underrated SF? Oh you mean the guy who averaged 13 points in the regular season, BUT STEPPED up his game in the post season averaging.... 13 points? Yeah hes a defenseive player, but calm down, aint nobody underrating tayshaun prince.
Tayshaun quote from today: our also religating the bright stars of your team and a defensive gem in Prince to the bench.
lol, atleast be consistent man.
you were dogging billups over the summer and now you love him. i swear, you are just out to instigate and hate on any and everyone's teams for no reason. You were projecting the Raptors to win the title with the addition of JO'Neal...I think he is a little more washed up than AI.
This team was stale and Billups was a large reason why. The guy had no passion left and has no drive to win another title. He is locked up for 4 years and it will stunt the growth of Stuckey a lot more than AI, who will most likely be a 1 and done situation. AI is hungry for a title, and is now around the best team he has ever had. The Nuggets were terrible defensively and had horrible chemistry. This is a shakeup for sure, and we don't know how it will play out, but he will provide what the Pistons needed...a penetrating presence and a proven scorer. SO many times over the last couple seasons in the playoffs the Pistons couldn't buy a basket, as they lacked a stud scorer. We have it now with AI, and the defense around him will make up for his gambling nature on that side of the ball.
Tayshaun on the bench is not definite. The lineup could easily be:
AI/Stuckey
Rip/Afflalo
Prince/Hermann
Amir/McDyess (who will be re-signed)/Maxiell
Sheed/Kwame Brown
Nirpaal
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I'm no detroit fan, and its hard to really say whats going to happen at the end of the season, as far as stucky getting injured, lol what if any player on any team gets injured? people step up, i agree they lost their floor general, but they gained a big game player, and the reference to the "iverson of 08", lol its still iverson and he is a top player in the league, also, saying that he couldnt make it work with melo, JR, nene and all those guys, lol im not surprised, denver is a lost cause in the western conference, both teams needed a change and it happened, btw stuckey is a big time pg and he will benefit with AI. Lets see how everything works out.
Summy
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how am I still inconsistent. Maybe too much of that polluted drinking water in detroit is getting to your head.
Billups is garbage. Stuckey is better. For the long run Stucky is better, but if YOUR TALKING ABOUT WINNING NOW, Billups is better. Your orginal post was about how the pistons are this and that and how they have a legit chance. My post was about how the present value of the team decreased. I stated it twice that I wouldnt put the ball in a 2nd year player like stuckey.
I like how you dont understand that i compliment prince defense in both posts. I made fun of his "stepping up" in the playoffs. Iverson is not going to run your point buddy, he's a SG. He is a better PG than Billups, but thats not where they are going to put him. You, yourself said that iverson is going to be the SG with rip and leading the way for stuckey as a PG, now your saying that stuckey is going to come off the bench? What was the point of disrupting chemistry and trading for a less pure PG (although better int he system he played) and keeping your next big thing on the bench.
I guess I got to dumb it down. Iverson is a better PG than billups in my opinion on the nuggets because putting him at 2 and continuing to start anthony johnson was dumb. Iverson wont be playing the PG role on your team. He will be a SG. In the trade you lose a pure PG, and replace him with a 2nd year kid. You bump a pure SG to a 3 and take away a good defensive player (never debated that) out of your lineup.
Billups is still garbage. Iverson is still better at the PG position, but once you move iverson to 2 and keep billups at 1, Id rather have billups. Notice how I said iverson is a better PG than billups. His value as a 2 on a team with undersized guards is less than billups is maybe garbage, but has the ability to win, and a clutch shot.
Geez, these pistons fans and their delusional hopes, but I guess when you live in detroit, haha, its all you got. I guess you dont want be to bring up your lovely billups talk and now all of a sudden, no passion?
YOU THINK ONEAL IS MORE WASHED UP THAT IVERSON? Haha. The raptors are 3-0, beat your boyfriend's warriors, the sixers, and the bucks. The raptors significantly improved their interior defense. Even though oneal had only one great statistical game, if you watched the game you would realize that he changed the compelte offense as well. His shot blocking drives defenders away from the paint, and no longer can team double team bosh.
I mean, I guess I dont want to rag on the only thing thats going for detroit right now, so ill let you have it. If you really think this is not a lateral move, and this is a move for the better, god bless you. If you think stuckey is your future, and AI is one and done, then you got billups for cap space. You didnt do this move for this year. But you seem to think that AI's hunger (and JO's lack of) is a factor in this.
If you think about it, trades in the recent years have lead to people getting younger more talented players. The shaq trade, the gasol trade etc... The pistons just traded an old guy for an old guy and the old guy they get is bolting from the team.
Billups running the point is much better than iverson @ the two, even though I think they both suck, and the raptors 1 and 2 are much better.
Billups is garbage. Stuckey is better. For the long run Stucky is better, but if YOUR TALKING ABOUT WINNING NOW, Billups is better. Your orginal post was about how the pistons are this and that and how they have a legit chance. My post was about how the present value of the team decreased. I stated it twice that I wouldnt put the ball in a 2nd year player like stuckey.
I like how you dont understand that i compliment prince defense in both posts. I made fun of his "stepping up" in the playoffs. Iverson is not going to run your point buddy, he's a SG. He is a better PG than Billups, but thats not where they are going to put him. You, yourself said that iverson is going to be the SG with rip and leading the way for stuckey as a PG, now your saying that stuckey is going to come off the bench? What was the point of disrupting chemistry and trading for a less pure PG (although better int he system he played) and keeping your next big thing on the bench.
I guess I got to dumb it down. Iverson is a better PG than billups in my opinion on the nuggets because putting him at 2 and continuing to start anthony johnson was dumb. Iverson wont be playing the PG role on your team. He will be a SG. In the trade you lose a pure PG, and replace him with a 2nd year kid. You bump a pure SG to a 3 and take away a good defensive player (never debated that) out of your lineup.
Billups is still garbage. Iverson is still better at the PG position, but once you move iverson to 2 and keep billups at 1, Id rather have billups. Notice how I said iverson is a better PG than billups. His value as a 2 on a team with undersized guards is less than billups is maybe garbage, but has the ability to win, and a clutch shot.
Geez, these pistons fans and their delusional hopes, but I guess when you live in detroit, haha, its all you got. I guess you dont want be to bring up your lovely billups talk and now all of a sudden, no passion?
YOU THINK ONEAL IS MORE WASHED UP THAT IVERSON? Haha. The raptors are 3-0, beat your boyfriend's warriors, the sixers, and the bucks. The raptors significantly improved their interior defense. Even though oneal had only one great statistical game, if you watched the game you would realize that he changed the compelte offense as well. His shot blocking drives defenders away from the paint, and no longer can team double team bosh.
I mean, I guess I dont want to rag on the only thing thats going for detroit right now, so ill let you have it. If you really think this is not a lateral move, and this is a move for the better, god bless you. If you think stuckey is your future, and AI is one and done, then you got billups for cap space. You didnt do this move for this year. But you seem to think that AI's hunger (and JO's lack of) is a factor in this.
If you think about it, trades in the recent years have lead to people getting younger more talented players. The shaq trade, the gasol trade etc... The pistons just traded an old guy for an old guy and the old guy they get is bolting from the team.
Billups running the point is much better than iverson @ the two, even though I think they both suck, and the raptors 1 and 2 are much better.
HarmanSingh
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I love how you are so sure this will not work out for the Pistons.
You keep saying "Billups is garbage" then say he is a good PG. Make up your mind man. I do not deny that Billups is more of a "pure PG" than AI...but what we had was not going to win a title. Iverson brings heart, speed, dribble penetration and a proven scorer to the team. If he doesnt work on, we cut our ties and can make a run at any FA in the NBA. Chauncey was going to stunt his growth because he was signed on for 4 years.
Iverson may or may not run the point during the games..no one knows the lineup yet. If Stuckey is the PG, I am confident he can play well enough for us to win. He will have bad games, definitely..but when your supporting cast included AI, Rip, Tayshaun and Sheed...you can make some mistakes. You cannot tell me a backcourt of Stuckey, AI and Rip will not cause HAVOC for teams. That speed, that attacking mentality is out of control..and every team better be ready to run and defend against these guys.
Rip's defense is underated and he has improved every season with it. Tayshaun of the bench means we now have an olympic gold medalist and NBA champion as our 6th man to come in and play D on the opposing team's player when needed. Keep it mind Rip has been taking a lot of defensive assignments from Tay lately.
Ya, O'Neal is more washed up than AI. Be honest. You know AI is still a top player in this league who can carry a team to the finals and put up 26 pts/7 assists/3 rebound and 2 steals on 45% FG, and O'Neal is at best a 12/10 guy now who is a role player. You cannot tell me O'Neal is in better shape than AI, especially when Jermaine has been average at best so far this short season.
My "lovely BIllups" talk was real. I love the guy and he was a fan favorite in Detroit and its bittersweet to trade him. But it was time to make a move for this season and the future of this team.
I don't know who my boyfriend on the Warriors is, but keep your pants on with this 3-0 start against 3 average teams. it isn't that serious.
"If you think about it, trades in the recent years have lead to people getting younger more talented players. The shaq trade, the gasol trade etc... The pistons just traded an old guy for an old guy and the old guy they get is bolting from the team."
The Celtics disagree.
"even though I think they both suck, and the raptors 1 and 2 are much better." LOL. Dude, get off their nuts. You said the Raps would win the east last yr too. The Raptors are way too soft defensively and lack depth like crazy. if you wouldnt trade your roster for the Pistons, you are crazy
You keep saying "Billups is garbage" then say he is a good PG. Make up your mind man. I do not deny that Billups is more of a "pure PG" than AI...but what we had was not going to win a title. Iverson brings heart, speed, dribble penetration and a proven scorer to the team. If he doesnt work on, we cut our ties and can make a run at any FA in the NBA. Chauncey was going to stunt his growth because he was signed on for 4 years.
Iverson may or may not run the point during the games..no one knows the lineup yet. If Stuckey is the PG, I am confident he can play well enough for us to win. He will have bad games, definitely..but when your supporting cast included AI, Rip, Tayshaun and Sheed...you can make some mistakes. You cannot tell me a backcourt of Stuckey, AI and Rip will not cause HAVOC for teams. That speed, that attacking mentality is out of control..and every team better be ready to run and defend against these guys.
Rip's defense is underated and he has improved every season with it. Tayshaun of the bench means we now have an olympic gold medalist and NBA champion as our 6th man to come in and play D on the opposing team's player when needed. Keep it mind Rip has been taking a lot of defensive assignments from Tay lately.
Ya, O'Neal is more washed up than AI. Be honest. You know AI is still a top player in this league who can carry a team to the finals and put up 26 pts/7 assists/3 rebound and 2 steals on 45% FG, and O'Neal is at best a 12/10 guy now who is a role player. You cannot tell me O'Neal is in better shape than AI, especially when Jermaine has been average at best so far this short season.
My "lovely BIllups" talk was real. I love the guy and he was a fan favorite in Detroit and its bittersweet to trade him. But it was time to make a move for this season and the future of this team.
I don't know who my boyfriend on the Warriors is, but keep your pants on with this 3-0 start against 3 average teams. it isn't that serious.
"If you think about it, trades in the recent years have lead to people getting younger more talented players. The shaq trade, the gasol trade etc... The pistons just traded an old guy for an old guy and the old guy they get is bolting from the team."
The Celtics disagree.
"even though I think they both suck, and the raptors 1 and 2 are much better." LOL. Dude, get off their nuts. You said the Raps would win the east last yr too. The Raptors are way too soft defensively and lack depth like crazy. if you wouldnt trade your roster for the Pistons, you are crazy
Summy
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"what we had was not going to win the title" WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, WHATS THAT?!!?
hahah, you just justified everything I said in the past. Where the hell is your the pistons are consistently great, and we will do this and that. So your telling me, exactly what I have been telling you since you brought the team named after a car engine part into conversations with me.
You probably havent watched AI, but AI doesnt work well with other above average players. The time when he was most successful was when he was playing with Eric Snow, Aaron Mckie, and Theo Ratliff. As soon as he got traded to the Nuggets, with a similar lineup to the Nuggets as far as talent goes, then he struggled to co-exist. Hahaha on your life AI is shooting 45% and 26 points.
Oneal is coming off 4 years of injury problems, when AI has been healthy. oneal is like 5 years younger than AI, and still has good days in front of him. You said I would be insane not to trade the raptors lineup for the pistons lineup? No I would be intelligent.
Where is your team in 5 years? Wallace is close to retirement, Rip is old and probably had his best days either now or behind him, McDyess is in a retirement home, and your depending on a second round pick and Rodney stuckey to be your future.
The raptors? Borderline all-star last year in Jose Calderone, and tied for assist league leader at the end of our last game. The league leader in assist to turnover ratio. Oh yeah, and his third year in the league. One of the leagues best, if not the best verstile big men and young stars in the game in Chris Bosh who will be entering his twlight in 5 years. Anthony Parker a man who is a defensive genius and multiple time euro league MVP and guys like the league leader in 3 point shooting Kapono, and the number 1 pick Andrea Bargnani (a european who take at least 4-5 years to develope fully ie- see dirk) moon dunk contestant and also aprticipant in the rookie/ sophmore game, along with bargnani....
The pistons are reaching their demise now with the bailing of billups and the assumed depature of AI (Who may I add is one of the most uncoachable players in league, but the pistons arent one for character building). In 5 years, your roster will be overhauled, when the raptors will be reaching their peak.
And hey lets face it, the pistons are dumping salary for what reason? To chase after that big star they are lacking... Ohh kinda like a chris bosh...
Haha the celtics point. Yeah when you get the chance to garnett and ray allen in the same summer, you do so. The cletics may disagree, but hey, the suns, lakers, trailblazers and their partners may disagree.
Last year the raptors had the most depth in the league with the best bench in the NBA last year. Now, the depth is not there. Haha right, and the pistons use straight bums like acker and affalo?
We will see, time will tell. Not just this year, but in 2,3 4 years whose lineup you rather have.
hahah, you just justified everything I said in the past. Where the hell is your the pistons are consistently great, and we will do this and that. So your telling me, exactly what I have been telling you since you brought the team named after a car engine part into conversations with me.
You probably havent watched AI, but AI doesnt work well with other above average players. The time when he was most successful was when he was playing with Eric Snow, Aaron Mckie, and Theo Ratliff. As soon as he got traded to the Nuggets, with a similar lineup to the Nuggets as far as talent goes, then he struggled to co-exist. Hahaha on your life AI is shooting 45% and 26 points.
Oneal is coming off 4 years of injury problems, when AI has been healthy. oneal is like 5 years younger than AI, and still has good days in front of him. You said I would be insane not to trade the raptors lineup for the pistons lineup? No I would be intelligent.
Where is your team in 5 years? Wallace is close to retirement, Rip is old and probably had his best days either now or behind him, McDyess is in a retirement home, and your depending on a second round pick and Rodney stuckey to be your future.
The raptors? Borderline all-star last year in Jose Calderone, and tied for assist league leader at the end of our last game. The league leader in assist to turnover ratio. Oh yeah, and his third year in the league. One of the leagues best, if not the best verstile big men and young stars in the game in Chris Bosh who will be entering his twlight in 5 years. Anthony Parker a man who is a defensive genius and multiple time euro league MVP and guys like the league leader in 3 point shooting Kapono, and the number 1 pick Andrea Bargnani (a european who take at least 4-5 years to develope fully ie- see dirk) moon dunk contestant and also aprticipant in the rookie/ sophmore game, along with bargnani....
The pistons are reaching their demise now with the bailing of billups and the assumed depature of AI (Who may I add is one of the most uncoachable players in league, but the pistons arent one for character building). In 5 years, your roster will be overhauled, when the raptors will be reaching their peak.
And hey lets face it, the pistons are dumping salary for what reason? To chase after that big star they are lacking... Ohh kinda like a chris bosh...
Haha the celtics point. Yeah when you get the chance to garnett and ray allen in the same summer, you do so. The cletics may disagree, but hey, the suns, lakers, trailblazers and their partners may disagree.
Last year the raptors had the most depth in the league with the best bench in the NBA last year. Now, the depth is not there. Haha right, and the pistons use straight bums like acker and affalo?
We will see, time will tell. Not just this year, but in 2,3 4 years whose lineup you rather have.
Summy your arguments are so skewed and horrendously flawed that absurd doesn't accurately describe them. You always harp on one small point and omit other key points, and that is why nobody takes you very seriously. You are a complete homer....not simply a fan but a delusional homer.
I will say the following. The Pistons collection of youth absolutely will explode in the next 2 years. You keep saying stuckey stuckey stuckey. Yet you fail to realize that a nucleus of young players including Maxiell, Amir J., Stuckey, Afflalo, and Prince (only 28) are ALL players who have yet to hit their prime, are ALL players who work hard at both ends of the court, and are ALL players that when mixed with some vets and other stars, will form a contending team for years to come. Hell, even our 3rd string point guard, Will Bynum, tore up the Bobcats top ten point Augustin tonight. There is a strong committment to offense and defense that is a cornerstone of the Pistons franchise.
You can compare Billups to Iverson all you want, and that is what the casual fan with little knowledge will do. But thats not why this deal is great. I don't care if Iverson ends up not fitting in. This deal was great for Detroit because Iverson and Sheed's contracts come off the books at the end of the year....thats about $35 million. That gives us enormous flexibility to potentially sign 2 marquee free agents. Those are the facts...it keeps us competitive now, but makes our future even brighter. Fans of other teams might say, blah the Pistons are done this year.....but they don't care about 5,10 years down the line. This deal absolutely ensures that we will stay atop the Eastern Conference and will always be a threat to go to the Finals. Finally Summy, no matter how much you try convincing yourself that the Raptors are even remotely on the level of Detroit, well, lets just say that they have absolutely no chance of finishing in the top-4 IN THE EAST. Accomplish something first, then you can talk smack. 3-0?? Wow, good for you, we will see where you end up after 82 games. Yeah the Pistons probably won't take the East this year...but we will certainly finish close among Boston and the Cavs...and go into next summer with a ton of possibilities. Once Bosh leaves your sorry franchise which hasn't accomplished jack $hit, the Toronto Raptors will sputter even further down the nasty drain that you are trying to climb out of. Get on my level homey, then we can talk ball. Can't wait to hear more incoherence and gibberish from you, but I'll wait to respond till the fat lady has sung and your season is awash.
I will say the following. The Pistons collection of youth absolutely will explode in the next 2 years. You keep saying stuckey stuckey stuckey. Yet you fail to realize that a nucleus of young players including Maxiell, Amir J., Stuckey, Afflalo, and Prince (only 28) are ALL players who have yet to hit their prime, are ALL players who work hard at both ends of the court, and are ALL players that when mixed with some vets and other stars, will form a contending team for years to come. Hell, even our 3rd string point guard, Will Bynum, tore up the Bobcats top ten point Augustin tonight. There is a strong committment to offense and defense that is a cornerstone of the Pistons franchise.
You can compare Billups to Iverson all you want, and that is what the casual fan with little knowledge will do. But thats not why this deal is great. I don't care if Iverson ends up not fitting in. This deal was great for Detroit because Iverson and Sheed's contracts come off the books at the end of the year....thats about $35 million. That gives us enormous flexibility to potentially sign 2 marquee free agents. Those are the facts...it keeps us competitive now, but makes our future even brighter. Fans of other teams might say, blah the Pistons are done this year.....but they don't care about 5,10 years down the line. This deal absolutely ensures that we will stay atop the Eastern Conference and will always be a threat to go to the Finals. Finally Summy, no matter how much you try convincing yourself that the Raptors are even remotely on the level of Detroit, well, lets just say that they have absolutely no chance of finishing in the top-4 IN THE EAST. Accomplish something first, then you can talk smack. 3-0?? Wow, good for you, we will see where you end up after 82 games. Yeah the Pistons probably won't take the East this year...but we will certainly finish close among Boston and the Cavs...and go into next summer with a ton of possibilities. Once Bosh leaves your sorry franchise which hasn't accomplished jack $hit, the Toronto Raptors will sputter even further down the nasty drain that you are trying to climb out of. Get on my level homey, then we can talk ball. Can't wait to hear more incoherence and gibberish from you, but I'll wait to respond till the fat lady has sung and your season is awash.
ranjit singh
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game set match point goes to Nav
Summy
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Hahaha. Calm down you chumchaa, homey. YO YO YO, bund marounn nu bandh kar kalaya dey mohray yo yo yo.NSC said:
Yo yo yo, homey, speaking of levels homey, how about homey, you realize homey, that Jermaine Oneal is only one year older than prince. And that on every account Calderon is better than Stuckey. And that all star your wanting to sign homey, is already on our team homey.
Im not your friend. You detriot people make me laugh yo, homey. Talking about nobody taking me seriously? Says the anoyonmous NSC whose posts rang from dancing to outfits.
The corner of the pistons franchise is bringing pride to a slum. Amir Johnson hahaha, and Affalo are those you take pride in. For raptors fans its the number #1 pick and 3rd in rookie of the year voting Bargnani, and Jarmario Moon the dunk contest contestant and both the guys playing for the sophmore/ rookie allstars (following calderon and bosh the years before).
You want to look to the future and your talking about people like stuckey and amir johnson, hahaha. You wanna be rappers in detroit had the right idea in the beginning talk about now, not the future. Calderon > Stuckey. Bargnani > Johnson. Moon > Affalo. And face it, any of you pistons fans would sell your whole jayz collection to have a player like bosh on your team...
You want to compare the pistons future to the raptors? RIGHT. The contracts comes of the books who is available?
The best names: Marion, Bibby, Artest, Odom, and AI (boozer and bryant have player and TWO options) which one of those players do you think is a marquee franchise player? Marion wants to stay in Miami, Bibby is happy with ATL. You have the choice betwen odom, and Artest, who's liklihood of going to detriot is not that great.
Your clear 35 million for what? For 2010? Bosh said he would want nothing more than to re-up with Toronto, and Colangelo said there is no way he is leaving toronto. Lebron James? Dwyane Wade? Keep dreaming pistons fans.
Yo homey, listen up homey, how about you put down your walmart rap discount coupons and read a book and may YO YOU MIGHT GET ON MY LEVEL HOMEY.
Haha, such posers.
TheSlammer
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I agree, Toronto stinks and will always stink. Bosh is good, J Oneal is ok..... Toronto never makes it past the 1st round in the playoffs....The only time I think they did was with VC back in 01. Then they drove him nuts enuff to leave TO. Bargnani is a bust worst 1st pick ever, almost as bad as Kwame.
Toronto will get to the 2nd round of the playoffs if that......They have a lot of work to do.
Toronto will get to the 2nd round of the playoffs if that......They have a lot of work to do.
Summy
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nobody is arguing the past, we just came into existence, but I guess what bone thugs and harmony doesnt get here is taht Toronto has a much brighter future and that they hyping up idiots like stuckey and amir johnson when those guys are absolutely nothing compared to the young talent of toronto. C
Harman said we would be stupid to not trade our rosters. No hes an idiot because everyone knows the pistons arent going to win this current roster, and when you take wallace and iverson out of the roster next year, their team becomes worst even if they sign the two best FA. If they wait a year, they are chasing a toronto raptor...
Thats fine the pistons suceeded in a shitty conference whose competition was Lebron james and the NJ nets. There was not one team that was remotely good including the raptors when they were doing well. The moment the east became competitive with the celtics, sixers, cavs and raptors becoming legit threats, Dumars realized this and traded his starting PG.
Who has a brighter future? Calderon, Bosh, Oneal (again only 29), Moon, Bargnani and Parker .... or, Stuckey, Amir Johnson, Prince and who again Maxiell was it?
Bargnani as bas a Kwame? Haha. Its his third year, and european players always take longer to develope. Coming in Colangelo said he will start to succeed in his 3rd, 4th and 5th years, the projected time when the raptors will start to succeed.
Harman said we would be stupid to not trade our rosters. No hes an idiot because everyone knows the pistons arent going to win this current roster, and when you take wallace and iverson out of the roster next year, their team becomes worst even if they sign the two best FA. If they wait a year, they are chasing a toronto raptor...
Thats fine the pistons suceeded in a shitty conference whose competition was Lebron james and the NJ nets. There was not one team that was remotely good including the raptors when they were doing well. The moment the east became competitive with the celtics, sixers, cavs and raptors becoming legit threats, Dumars realized this and traded his starting PG.
Who has a brighter future? Calderon, Bosh, Oneal (again only 29), Moon, Bargnani and Parker .... or, Stuckey, Amir Johnson, Prince and who again Maxiell was it?
Bargnani as bas a Kwame? Haha. Its his third year, and european players always take longer to develope. Coming in Colangelo said he will start to succeed in his 3rd, 4th and 5th years, the projected time when the raptors will start to succeed.
Sher Foundation
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http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2008/11/03/nba_20081103_aldridge_iverson_trade.nba/
Watch that Summy and piston fans, it explains a lot.
Although the general consensus out there is that Pistons got a good deal,i too believe that denver got the better end of the deal. Billups is a pure PG who made everyone around him better. Although mcdyess does not want to play for denver and has made that publicly clear, denver still got the better deal. Not only do they get a guy who can make melo, martin, carter and others look BETTER, but they cut their salary cap even more this year. Their owner made it clear that he does not want to pay the big bucks to some of the players if his team is just going to exit out of the first round every season. Denver will probably do as well as they would have with AI in the line up, if not better while paying less out of their pockets.
As far as the pistons franchise is concerned, this is sort of a win for them too. If AI explodes and is the missing piece as to why pistons never got past conference finals, then good they can give him a new contract and they would still be in the running for a player in the 2010 free agents market. And if not, they have a lot of alternatives to survive through the 09-10 season. We wont know how AI does until this season progresses so lets see what happens.
As far as which team has a brighter future out of the raps or pistons...people are clearly out of their minds if they think the pistons will not have a strong future or even a stronger future than the raptors. Agreed, if by some miracle, the raptors team does not go through ANY roster changes, they will be a damn good team a few years from now and if by some miracle the pistons dont go through any changes, the raps would have a better future. But realistically, the raptors are average defensively and slightly above average offensively. By now everyone probably agrees that defense consistently wins ball games. In recent years, Pistons always have been, and will continue to be a defensive minded team. So even if this miracle was to happen and none of the rosters were to go through changes, it is not as obvious as to who would be the winner. Colangelo is great, my respect for him has shot up even more after seeing what he did with the olympic team. But, a nba franchise makes money off of air time on tv, endorsements, the crap they sell like shirts, tickets, etc etc. So at the end of the day, Pistons have not only won championships this decade, but have been to the eastern conference finals 6 years in a row. What does that exactly mean? Greater ticket sales, more endorsements, more air time. This means that their yearly income beats the hell out of the raptors' yearly income which means if the pistons were to have a weak roster at some point in the coming years, they have enough money to throw around for trades just like they did right now with AI. AI makes the 3rd highest amount of money in the league and this is his contract year.
So at the end of the day, money talks and pistons have a lot more of it to offer so the brighter future still logically goes to the pistons. Players would LIKE to stay with their home team but money does really talk. Elton brand WANTED to stay with the clippers but instead he went with philly. Its just a business.
Seriously, watch the entire video till the end it covers a lot of ground on the trade.
Watch that Summy and piston fans, it explains a lot.
Although the general consensus out there is that Pistons got a good deal,i too believe that denver got the better end of the deal. Billups is a pure PG who made everyone around him better. Although mcdyess does not want to play for denver and has made that publicly clear, denver still got the better deal. Not only do they get a guy who can make melo, martin, carter and others look BETTER, but they cut their salary cap even more this year. Their owner made it clear that he does not want to pay the big bucks to some of the players if his team is just going to exit out of the first round every season. Denver will probably do as well as they would have with AI in the line up, if not better while paying less out of their pockets.
As far as the pistons franchise is concerned, this is sort of a win for them too. If AI explodes and is the missing piece as to why pistons never got past conference finals, then good they can give him a new contract and they would still be in the running for a player in the 2010 free agents market. And if not, they have a lot of alternatives to survive through the 09-10 season. We wont know how AI does until this season progresses so lets see what happens.
As far as which team has a brighter future out of the raps or pistons...people are clearly out of their minds if they think the pistons will not have a strong future or even a stronger future than the raptors. Agreed, if by some miracle, the raptors team does not go through ANY roster changes, they will be a damn good team a few years from now and if by some miracle the pistons dont go through any changes, the raps would have a better future. But realistically, the raptors are average defensively and slightly above average offensively. By now everyone probably agrees that defense consistently wins ball games. In recent years, Pistons always have been, and will continue to be a defensive minded team. So even if this miracle was to happen and none of the rosters were to go through changes, it is not as obvious as to who would be the winner. Colangelo is great, my respect for him has shot up even more after seeing what he did with the olympic team. But, a nba franchise makes money off of air time on tv, endorsements, the crap they sell like shirts, tickets, etc etc. So at the end of the day, Pistons have not only won championships this decade, but have been to the eastern conference finals 6 years in a row. What does that exactly mean? Greater ticket sales, more endorsements, more air time. This means that their yearly income beats the hell out of the raptors' yearly income which means if the pistons were to have a weak roster at some point in the coming years, they have enough money to throw around for trades just like they did right now with AI. AI makes the 3rd highest amount of money in the league and this is his contract year.
So at the end of the day, money talks and pistons have a lot more of it to offer so the brighter future still logically goes to the pistons. Players would LIKE to stay with their home team but money does really talk. Elton brand WANTED to stay with the clippers but instead he went with philly. Its just a business.
Seriously, watch the entire video till the end it covers a lot of ground on the trade.